Here is another project that is for my own personal collection. This time it is a Williams Brass Class J #611. This one is getting the BEMC, RCDR, RS lite, LTC1, Fatboy Speaker, and hopefully I can fit the DSMK for whistle steam. I am still working on the smoke setup plan. I had to make some major modifications to the weight in the locomotive and the BEMC itself. The weight had to be cut down to fit the DSMK I will be using for the smoke. The BEMC was to tall, so I mounted the large cap and rectifier off the BEMC. The Mount it is on is from forum member Bruk Banister. The tender for the most part is done fabrication wise other than the wiring, lighting, and the antenna in the coal load. Cosmetically the only major modification I did was install Lionel class light housings with the green lenses. They are not perfect, but look much better than the old ones that this engine came with. So far this is turning out well. More to come.
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Sid, you do some fine work but I have to ask, why do you opt for Legacy instead of ERR. Are you adding smoke effects or swinging bell? If not I don't see the advantage other than 200 speed steps instead of 100.
Pete
@Norton posted:Sid, you do some fine work but I have to ask, why do you opt for Legacy instead of ERR. Are you adding smoke effects or swinging bell? If not I don't see the advantage other than 200 speed steps instead of 100.
Pete
For lots of these locomotives I opt for it because of the whistle steam, speed steps, and sounds. This one is getting whistle steam and there is truly a difference between err sounds an legacy sounds. Sure I could have used the RS5 611 sounds, but the legacy still has a lot of features.
@Norton posted:Sid, you do some fine work but I have to ask, why do you opt for Legacy instead of ERR. Are you adding smoke effects or swinging bell? If not I don't see the advantage other than 200 speed steps instead of 100.
Pete
Some features I love are the quillable whistle, sequence control, whistle steam, and legacy has good lighting control.
All good reasons. I was just curious. For myself, I like to keep it simple, 4 chuffs and a decent whistle is all I need. BTW I get quillable whistle with my RS4 engines.
Pete
@Norton posted:All good reasons. I was just curious. For myself, I like to keep it simple, 4 chuffs and a decent whistle is all I need. BTW I get quillable whistle with my RS4 engines.
Pete
When you mean quillable you mean the changing pitches? I have become pretty good at changing the pitches in tmcc locomotives by memorizing patterns.
Sid, be mindful of the stock motor in some of these older Williams pieces, ...they’re known amp hogs....I’d do some testing and know my amp draws before taxing/ destroying expensive things......you might get away with it, or you might not, ....but “ a man’s got to know his limitations” as Clint would say.....you could always Pittman swap it, and surrender some top end speed, but that’d be fine by me....those locomotives are 44:1 gearing......and with the stock motor spinning at warp speed, they like amps.....a lot .....tread lightly....
Pat
@harmonyards posted:Sid, be mindful of the stock motor in some of these older Williams pieces, ...they’re known amp hogs....I’d do some testing and know my amp draws before taxing/ destroying expensive things......you might get away with it, or you might not, ....but “ a man’s got to know his limitations” as Clint would say.....you could always Pittman swap it, and surrender some top end speed, but that’d be fine by me....those locomotives are 44:1 gearing......and with the stock motor spinning at warp speed, they like amps.....a lot .....tread lightly....
Pat
I totally forgot to mention I swapped the motor with a 555ph from ebay. If it doesn't work I will get a Pittman to swap. From everything I have read the 555 is a much better motor.
The main difference between the 550 and 555 is the 550 is three pole and the 555 is 5 pole so it should run a bit smoother but check the stall current. I think both are 10 amps plus!!!
Pete
@Sid's Trains posted:I totally forgot to mention I swapped the motor with a 555ph from ebay. If it doesn't work I will get a Pittman to swap. From everything I have read the 555 is a much better motor.
Good deal, .....the 555’s available on the bay are rpm’ed much like a Pittman, so, with the 555 you will surrender some top end speed, but no harm no foul IMO, .....the original motors are something silly like 12K rpm......the 555 will give you better starting performance too, ....ain’t nothing like a Pittman, that’s for sure, but it’s a way better choice than the wiper motor they used from the get-go.......that 550 is landfill material....
Pat
And do what Pete said!!....check that stall current, .....that’s a must!...I completely forgot that.....you’ll begin creeping up on stall currents as power is applied to the motor, before it begins to spin the motor.....so yes!...knowing stall currents is a must!,....good point Pete!..
Pat
@harmonyards posted:And do what Pete said!!....check that stall current, .....that’s a must!...I completely forgot that.....you’ll begin creeping up on stall currents as power is applied to the motor, before it begins to spin the motor.....so yes!...knowing stall currents is a must!,....good point Pete!..
Pat
Woah yeah I just checked the ebay ad and it said stall current is 11.8 a. Hmm. This motor looks like it won't work. It wouldn't blow the board, but instead make the cab light flash and not allow the Engine to move. So it looks like I will have to go the Pitman or Cannon route. Any ideas on which Pittman or Cannon motor will fit?
The TMCC 611 used a 9433 Pittman. The Legacy 611 used a Canon. The Pittman is close to the same size as a 550. You only have to drill new holes in the motor mount and the Wiiliams flywheel or drive coupling to 4mm.
Pete
@Norton posted:The TMCC 611 used a 9433 Pittman. The Legacy 611 used a Canon. The Pittman is close to the same size as a 550. You only have to drill new holes in the motor mount and the Wiiliams flywheel or drive coupling to 4mm.
Pete
What about the cannon? I ask because parts for Pittman's are getting harder and harder to find.
Pete’s quicker on the draw today...I’m trying to get two dozen Railking bantams up & running, so I’m straying from the forum....be sure to get a 12 volt Pittman, ...a 15.1 or a 19.1 in a Williams isn’t the best choice,.....the way that lousy gear box is, you’ll be throttling forever before it begins to move......
Pat
You just found one. You can get that one from Lionel. Part number shown. Avoid Canons if possible. No comparison to a Pittman in quality as least in version Lionel uses.
Edit, listen to Pat. He is the Pittman maven. The Lionel one shown is a 15 volt.
Pete
@harmonyards posted:Pete’s quicker on the draw today...I’m trying to get two dozen Railking bantams up & running, so I’m straying from the forum....be sure to get a 12 volt Pittman, ...a 15.1 or a 19.1 in a Williams isn’t the best choice,.....the way that lousy gear box is, you’ll be throttling forever before it begins to move......
Pat
Ok. So the one Pete showed me is a 15.1. Do you have a 12v part number?
It takes me forever to open up Lionel’s parts web site, ....I live way back in the woods of NC,......do a search on Lionel’s parts site for Pittman motors, look for a number beginning in 9433, the prefix’s after that don't mean that much for what your doing....pick one rated at 12v, .......be sure it’s still available....if you have any questions, post up a pic of your findings, and we’ll help you from there.....
Pat
@harmonyards posted:It takes me forever to open up Lionel’s parts web site, ....I live way back in the woods of NC,......do a search on Lionel’s parts site for Pittman motors, look for a number beginning in 9433, the prefix’s after that don't mean that much for what your doing....pick one rated at 12v, .......be sure it’s still available....if you have any questions, post up a pic of your findings, and we’ll help you from there.....
Pat
Ok. Just curious, what do you not like about Cannon motors?
@Sid's Trains posted:Ok. Just curious, what do you not like about Cannon motors?
Total junk as well IMO....another low bid part from the big L,......as I’ve mentioned before in other threads, unfortunately Pittman ( AMETEK ) has priced themselves right out of our hobby....I’ve replaced 2 cannons, one in my own Legacy, and the other in a buddy’s.....If you do some digging, Pittmans can still be had for reasonable money...
Pat
Lionel lists one Pittman as 12v. Its a 9234 which I believe is 61 mm long. You can see if it would fit before ordering. Diameter is the same as the 15v Pittman so its close to your 550.
I believe GRJ has already replaced a number of burnt out Canons so buyer beware.
Pete
@harmonyards posted:Total junk as well IMO....another low bid part from the big L,......as I’ve mentioned before in other threads, unfortunately Pittman ( AMETEK ) has priced themselves right out of our hobby....I’ve replaced 2 cannons, one in my own Legacy, and the other in a buddy’s.....If you do some digging, Pittmans can still be had for reasonable money...
Pat
Ive worked on many, many newer product with the Canon style motor throughout the years. I haven’t had or seen any issues.
@Bruk posted:Ive worked on many, many newer product with the Canon style motor throughout the years. I haven’t had or seen any issues.
Then you’re lucky Bruk, .....my Legacy ESE developed a lovely clicking noise, audible over the sound system, so that one went to the rotary file, and I had another in a customer/buddy’s engine that decided it was good time to roast itself....cannons or Mubachi’s are no match for a Pittman.....that’s straight up from experience....
Pat
@harmonyards posted:Then you’re lucky Bruk, .....my Legacy ESE developed a lovely clicking noise, audible over the sound system, so that one went to the rotary file, and I had another in a customer/buddy’s engine that decided it was good time to roast itself....cannons or Mubachi’s are no match for a Pittman.....that’s straight up from experience....
Pat
I wont disagree Pittmans have proven their worthiness. But I have little luck finding new brushes for those.
@Norton posted:Lionel lists one Pittman as 12v. Its a 9234 which I believe is 61 mm long. You can see if it would fit before ordering. Diameter is the same as the 15v Pittman so its close to your 550.
I believe GRJ has already replaced a number of burnt out Canons so buyer beware.
Pete
9234 is the same size as the veritable 9434 found in a lot of O scale stuff, .....same width, same length.....I’ve fit 9234/9434’s in Williams Niagara’s before with little mod other than the mount needing different bolt pattern.....I’d like to think that N&W J is pretty cavernous inside the cab, .....should not be an issue fitting the larger motor,.....
Pat
@Bruk posted:I wont disagree Pittmans have proven their worthiness. But I have little luck finding new brushes for those.
As far as wear parts go Bruk, I can hook you up with the AMETEK salesman I use, .....their motors went through the roof as far as price is concerned, but their parts are still pretty reasonable .......I am not a dealer, but can hook you up with the rep I struck an accord with.....but TBT, I’ve rarely seen worn out brushes on a Pittman, ...maybe once in a great blue moon I’ve seen a broken brush, but even then it’s 99% been my fault tryin to fidget with something and accidentally snap one off...
Pat
Got the headlight and mark lights installed.
(Note I was powering them off a 9v battery and a resistor so I couldn't have both on at the same time)
Attachments
Looks like a good project that holds promising results. Are you going to do anything about that sheen on the shell?
@ES44AC posted:Looks like a good project that holds promising results. Are you going to do anything about that sheen on the shell?
I actually really like the gloss finish. The real 611 has a gloss finish. I have thought of blackening the running gear, but haven't decided yet.
I’d guess the choice of Mabuchi motors for the Williams brass Daylight (89) and J (90) was Samhongsa’s when these these engines came out thirty years ago (!). Apparently the same shortcomings inspiring the current thread were noticed by Jerome Williams’ “kids” in Columbia, MD (AKA Andy Edelman, Mike Wolf, et. al.) Andy soon offered an update kit on his own, consisting of a Pittman motor and a new fly-wheel (as I guess the Mabuchi and Pittman shafts were different). Then It developed that Samhongsa used different gender fly-wheel drive shaft couplings between the two locomotives, and Andy hadn’t caught that. He had provided the same gender for both. There was a “What the???” phone call, and Andy eventually shipped a revised fly-wheel (for the J). So I have enjoyed better running with these two Pittman powered locos for three decades now.
Sid, you need to carefully count the ratio of your gearbox there are two solutions depending on the ratio of your gearbox.. Put a mark on one drive wheel and another on the flywheel in a location that you can see both from one viewing angle. It is also nice to have those marks line up with a fixed detail on the loco as a reference point. Then start turning the 42:1 takes a while. Before you put your marks on the wheel and flywheel turn the flywheel in the direction you wish to turn while counting to make sure all the slack is taken up. The 42:1 can have a bit of slack. I have owned over twenty Williams locos and only found two gearboxes in the Samhongsa made locos they are basically the same gearbox one has a double helix worm and one is single. The single helix worm gives the gearbox a 42:1 ratio. The double helix worm has a ratio of 21:1. Williams imported some locos from Ajin and I have yet to count the turns on any of their gearboxes. That may be the source of the infamous 44:1 box. Not that there would be any significant difference between 44 and 42:1. Hopefully your "J" has the 21:1 box. However if it has the 42:1 box there is a solution to keep the motor from screaming like a siren at anything above 30smph. The nice thing about the Pittman is the closed case keeps the noise inside for the most part however if you want to drive your J at anything about 30smph your going to need more rpm than the 12v Pittmans deliver. One of the values you need to ascertain with whatever motor you plan to use is the static resistance of the motor that will determine the stall current at whatever the maximum voltage you drive the motor at. A stalled motor obeys ohms law so if you want a 6A stall current at 12V your motor will have a static resistance of 2 ohms. A quick and dirty way to determine static resistance is to first run the motor at a low voltage for a couple of minutes to remove any oxidation from the commutator segments. then disconnect the power connections or any other electronics such as an electronic e-unit, driver-board etc. connect your VOM set to read ohms and take a reading. Spin the motor again take another reading. Do this 5-6 times and average them. On a new motor you need to run it long enough to fully seat the brushes. Ten minutes should be enough. I have no experience with Legacy motor drivers but most TMCC drivers can deliver 8A for a short time in a stall situation so the lowest static resistance should be no lower than 1.5 ohms and your pressing your luck at that, it will be an amp hog too boot. Try and stay above 2 ohms. So your looking for a 2 ohm motor at what ever rpm your driver diameter and gearing give you for your desired top speed. Driver diameter X 3.1416 = ? . Divide 1320" (scale mile in inches) by this number to find the wheel revolutions per scale mile. Then multiply this number by the ratio of your gearbox. That is the rpm you will need for 60smph. You can use a simple ratio to find speeds over 60smph. X 1.5 would give you the rpm needed for 90smph. I am always happy to have a top speed on a model of 60smph for passenger locos and 40smph for freight locos. Now what to do should you be lucky enough to have that 42:1 gearbox. A similar discussion to this started a couple of months ago and it prompted me to pull out what Williams and early Weaver Samhongsa locos I still have. I had forgot what gearboxes I had. I still have five of the Sam. locos two have the 42:1 gearbox and three have the 21:1 gearing. Luck would find that the two locos I wanted to run fastest, a Williams "J" and a Weaver PRR M1 Mountain,had the 42:1 box. The gearbox on all of these locos can be swapped easily as the bottom cover comes off and the gear on the axles are all the same. I also have a Williams PRR B6 switcher 21:1 and a Williams PRR L1 mikado also 21:1. I am not all that concerned with the top speed on either of those locos so I took their 21:1 gearboxes and swapped out the 42:1 boxes on the "J" and the M1. I then put the 42:1 boxes on my B6 switcher and the L1 2-8-2 Mikado. Though 30smph is not a problem at all on the B6 I would like the Mikado to be useable at 40smph without the siren sound of a Mabuchi 500 series motor spinning a 12,000rpm. The solution, at 42:1 motor torque is not an issue but rpm is and the 300 series Mabuchi motors can go to 12k without too much whine and if you line the inside of the firebox/boiler with foam tape you can suppress most of the whine. So I am using a Mabuchi 385 with a static resistance of 2 ohms and 12,500rpm at 12V that will get the loco to about 55smph at 12v I mounted a MTH flywheel on it and had to machine a sleeve out of brass rod to step down the flywheel hole to the 385 shaft took me four tries to get the thing concentric. Well the things runs great I have only put 22 cars behind it but it seems that it could pull at least 30. The wheels and gearbox make far more noise than the motor. If their is a problem it is that any motor running over 10k, even with no load, is going to generate heat and the 385 runs hot I have run it over an hour with 20 cars and it gets warm but you can still hold it without having to let go. I bought it from Mops Electric on eBay and perhaps one of their 385 Mabuchis with 8500rpm at 12V would be plenty fast at 40smph and run cooler. I am going to have to stop here but I have been working on this Mikado for about two months now and plan to post here what I have done I may not finish but I will put something up by tomorrow. Link to the 385 I used https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mabuchi-RS-385SH-Motor-Knurled-Shaft-12V-12500-RPM-Powerful-Hobby-Motor/284065816087?hash=item4223a45e17:g:IN4AAMXQrvpRE~hp.
I would still rather have any of the Mabuchi 500 series motors in it and if I ever find a Sam. gearbox with the 21:1 gears I will pull the 42:1 and the 385 out in a heartbeat. j
@JohnActon posted:Sid, you need to carefully count the ratio of your gearbox there are two solutions depending on the ratio of your gearbox.. Put a mark on one drive wheel and another on the flywheel in a location that you can see both from one viewing angle. It is also nice to have those marks line up with a fixed detail on the loco as a reference point. Then start turning the 42:1 takes a while. Before you put your marks on the wheel and flywheel turn the flywheel in the direction you wish to turn while counting to make sure all the slack is taken up. The 42:1 can have a bit of slack. I have owned over twenty Williams locos and only found two gearboxes in the Samhongsa made locos they are basically the same gearbox one has a double helix worm and one is single. The single helix worm gives the gearbox a 42:1 ratio. The double helix worm has a ratio of 21:1. Williams imported some locos from Ajin and I have yet to count the turns on any of their gearboxes. That may be the source of the infamous 44:1 box. Not that there would be any significant difference between 44 and 42:1. Hopefully your "J" has the 21:1 box. However if it has the 42:1 box there is a solution to keep the motor from screaming like a siren at anything above 30smph. The nice thing about the Pittman is the closed case keeps the noise inside for the most part however if you want to drive your J at anything about 30smph your going to need more rpm than the 12v Pittmans deliver. One of the values you need to ascertain with whatever motor you plan to use is the static resistance of the motor that will determine the stall current at whatever the maximum voltage you drive the motor at. A stalled motor obeys ohms law so if you want a 6A stall current at 12V your motor will have a static resistance of 2 ohms. A quick and dirty way to determine static resistance is to first run the motor at a low voltage for a couple of minutes to remove any oxidation from the commutator segments. then disconnect the power connections or any other electronics such as an electronic e-unit, driver-board etc. connect your VOM set to read ohms and take a reading. Spin the motor again take another reading. Do this 5-6 times and average them. On a new motor you need to run it long enough to fully seat the brushes. Ten minutes should be enough. I have no experience with Legacy motor drivers but most TMCC drivers can deliver 8A for a short time in a stall situation so the lowest static resistance should be no lower than 1.5 ohms and your pressing your luck at that, it will be an amp hog too boot. Try and stay above 2 ohms. So your looking for a 2 ohm motor at what ever rpm your driver diameter and gearing give you for your desired top speed. Driver diameter X 3.1416 = ? . Divide 1320" (scale mile in inches) by this number to find the wheel revolutions per scale mile. Then multiply this number by the ratio of your gearbox. That is the rpm you will need for 60smph. You can use a simple ratio to find speeds over 60smph. X 1.5 would give you the rpm needed for 90smph. I am always happy to have a top speed on a model of 60smph for passenger locos and 40smph for freight locos. Now what to do should you be lucky enough to have that 42:1 gearbox. A similar discussion to this started a couple of months ago and it prompted me to pull out what Williams and early Weaver Samhongsa locos I still have. I had forgot what gearboxes I had. I still have five of the Sam. locos two have the 42:1 gearbox and three have the 21:1 gearing. Luck would find that the two locos I wanted to run fastest, a Williams "J" and a Weaver PRR M1 Mountain,had the 42:1 box. The gearbox on all of these locos can be swapped easily as the bottom cover comes off and the gear on the axles are all the same. I also have a Williams PRR B6 switcher 21:1 and a Williams PRR L1 mikado also 21:1. I am not all that concerned with the top speed on either of those locos so I took their 21:1 gearboxes and swapped out the 42:1 boxes on the "J" and the M1. I then put the 42:1 boxes on my B6 switcher and the L1 2-8-2 Mikado. Though 30smph is not a problem at all on the B6 I would like the Mikado to be useable at 40smph without the siren sound of a Mabuchi 500 series motor spinning a 12,000rpm. The solution, at 42:1 motor torque is not an issue but rpm is and the 300 series Mabuchi motors can go to 12k without too much whine and if you line the inside of the firebox/boiler with foam tape you can suppress most of the whine. So I am using a Mabuchi 385 with a static resistance of 2 ohms and 12,500rpm at 12V that will get the loco to about 55smph at 12v I mounted a MTH flywheel on it and had to machine a sleeve out of brass rod to step down the flywheel hole to the 385 shaft took me four tries to get the thing concentric. Well the things runs great I have only put 22 cars behind it but it seems that it could pull at least 30. The wheels and gearbox make far more noise than the motor. If their is a problem it is that any motor running over 10k, even with no load, is going to generate heat and the 385 runs hot I have run it over an hour with 20 cars and it gets warm but you can still hold it without having to let go. I bought it from Mops Electric on eBay and perhaps one of their 385 Mabuchis with 8500rpm at 12V would be plenty fast at 40smph and run cooler. I am going to have to stop here but I have been working on this Mikado for about two months now and plan to post here what I have done I may not finish but I will put something up by tomorrow. Link to the 385 I used https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mabuchi-RS-385SH-Motor-Knurled-Shaft-12V-12500-RPM-Powerful-Hobby-Motor/284065816087?hash=item4223a45e17:g:IN4AAMXQrvpRE~hp.
I would still rather have any of the Mabuchi 500 series motors in it and if I ever find a Sam. gearbox with the 21:1 gears I will pull the 42:1 and the 385 out in a heartbeat. j
While everything you said is true, I am installing legacy and the stall voltages of the Mabuchi motors are to high will trip the legacy boards into stall mode.
This sums all of that up; ......😳
Pat
@harmonyards posted:This sums all of that up; ......😳
Pat
I know right. That's a lot to take in. But is doesn't really relate much to this conversion other the sound problem
@OddIsHeRU posted:I’d guess the choice of Mabuchi motors for the Williams brass Daylight (89) and J (90) was Samhongsa’s when these these engines came out thirty years ago (!). Apparently the same shortcomings inspiring the current thread were noticed by Jerome Williams’ “kids” in Columbia, MD (AKA Andy Edelman, Mike Wolf, et. al.) Andy soon offered an update kit on his own, consisting of a Pittman motor and a new fly-wheel (as I guess the Mabuchi and Pittman shafts were different). Then It developed that Samhongsa used different gender fly-wheel drive shaft couplings between the two locomotives, and Andy hadn’t caught that. He had provided the same gender for both. There was a “What the???” phone call, and Andy eventually shipped a revised fly-wheel (for the J). So I have enjoyed better running with these two Pittman powered locos for three decades now.
Richard I started a rant about the 21:1 VS the 42:1 gearbox before you posted your remarks and just finished. What gearbox does your J have ? The original Mabuchi motors were 3 pole motors and had a static resistance under one ohm they were an AMP-PIG of a motor. Mabuchi does make much better motors, suitable for locomotives, than those original motors. I have put 545s in all my Williams locos with the 21:1 box and they run great. I have not tried but I would not be surprised if a Mabuchi 735 would fit in that large firebox on the J. The fact the MTH used Pittmans in their premier steam locos is why I have so many of their steamers. I just can't buy new Pittmans at todays prices for anything but a prize loco. j
@Sid's Trains posted:I know right. That's a lot to take in. But is doesn't really relate much to this conversion other the sound problem
I might pick on ol’ John, ( truth be told we’re probably the same age group) but he’s a very smart man....I read what he posts, and put all the info in the memory bank,....you’ll never know when you might rely on it....read what he posted on his reply, and retain it....
Pat
Sid, truth be told, you should be concentrating first on a good solid foundation, THEN add all the fancy bells and whistles....engineering begins with a solid foundation....when we build our stuff from scratch, like you’re doing with that J, ....we start with finding solutions to the already pre-packaged flaws a particular piece comes with, ...we refine the drive trains to obtain the most power, least amount of amp draws, and the smoothest performance you can get with either straight DC power on the motor, or by simply using a rectifier to run the chassis on AC power on test rollers, or real world on the layout....we test, and we test, and we bounce numbers off each other’s heads till we’re all silly....once we’ve obtained smooth running conventionally, then we move on to the goodies,....that’s just the icing on the cake on a proven performer......and if you really want to make the Williams J stand on its head and spit out wooden nickels, ....get up with me, and we’ll figure out how to slide a MTH chassis under that shell, and park that wonky Williams chassis....😉
Pat
Why don’t you guys just let him do what wants. From there he can learn what works and what doesn’t. He isn’t building a tank or a CNC machine. Its a model train.
@Bruk posted:Why don’t you guys just let him do what wants. From there he can learn what works and what doesn’t. He isn’t building a tank or a CNC machine. Its a model train.
Ain’t nobody holdin’ a gun to the boy’s head Bruk, sound advice is sound advice.....take it or leave it......last time I checked, Lionel don’t take back smoked up boards.....they tend to frown upon that......
Pat
@harmonyards posted:Sid, truth be told, you should be concentrating first on a good solid foundation, THEN add all the fancy bells and whistles....engineering begins with a solid foundation....when we build our stuff from scratch, like you’re doing with that J, ....we start with finding solutions to the already pre-packaged flaws a particular piece comes with, ...we refine the drive trains to obtain the most power, least amount of amp draws, and the smoothest performance you can get with either straight DC power on the motor, or by simply using a rectifier to run the chassis on AC power on test rollers, or real world on the layout....we test, and we test, and we bounce numbers off each other’s heads till we’re all silly....once we’ve obtained smooth running conventionally, then we move on to the goodies,....that’s just the icing on the cake on a proven performer......and if you really want to make the Williams J stand on its head and spit out wooden nickels, ....get up with me, and we’ll figure out how to slide a MTH chassis under that shell, and park that wonky Williams chassis....😉
Pat
Ok, this has gone way off what I originally intended. I am glad you all mentioned to me the idea of a different motor with a different stall current. The Mabuchi will obviously not work with the legacy electronics. Currently I do not have a motor to put on the chassis, so to pass the time I am just working on cosmetics and the tenders electronics. I do not want to put a MTH chassis underneath this locomotive as that defeats the entire purpose and makes me feel like I just gave up. Also just because I am young doesn't mean I don't know stuff. I have a bunch of knowledge and experience for someone my age. I learned from the best. I truly know for the most part what I am doing and am not going to just go off willy nilly and try to run the thing. Like Bruk said I am learning and this thing isn't meant to be a tank. I don't need it to pull a 20lb weight. It is still at the end of the day a brass model which I think we should all know are not the best pullers or performers. In the end I am just trying to have fun and do what I want. This is not my first rodeo dealing with these electronics and it sure won't be my last.
@Sid's Trains posted:Ok, this has gone way off what I originally intended. I am glad you all mentioned to me the idea of a different motor with a different stall current. The Mabuchi will obviously not work with the legacy electronics. Currently I do not have a motor to put on the chassis, so to pass the time I am just working on cosmetics and the tenders electronics. I do not want to put a MTH chassis underneath this locomotive as that defeats the entire purpose and makes me feel like I just gave up. Also just because I am young doesn't mean I don't know stuff. I have a bunch of knowledge and experience for someone my age. I learned from the best. I truly know for the most part what I am doing and am not going to just go off willy nilly and try to run the thing. Like Bruk said I am learning and this thing isn't meant to be a tank. I don't need it to pull a 20lb weight. It is still at the end of the day a brass model which I think we should all know are not the best pullers or performers. In the end I am just trying to have fun and do what I want. This is not my first rodeo dealing with these electronics and it sure won't be my last.
Well, then have a ball, and enjoy yourself.......
Pat
@harmonyards posted:I might pick on ol’ John, ( truth be told we’re probably the same age group) but he’s a very smart man....I read what he posts, and put all the info in the memory bank,....you’ll never know when you might rely on it....read what he posted on his reply, and retain it....
Pat
Well Shucks, Pat. Don't make me blush this time of night. Runs my blood pressure up I'll be running to the head all night. j
@harmonyards posted:Ain’t nobody holdin’ a gun to the boy’s head Bruk, sound advice is sound advice.....take it or leave it......last time I checked, Lionel don’t take back smoked up boards.....they tend to frown upon that......
Pat
The Legacy boards have a fail safe feature were if the motor draws to much it throws the code and cab light blinks. You have a couple attempts till you actually damage something. So if he over draws the board will say "no”
Lionel frowns on everything we are doing by adding LEGACY to items. They have been anti “upgrades” since the beginning for a reason. They aren’t taking anything back if they knew what why the board failed.
Everything we do with the these electronics is taking a risk. Its apart of this game.
@Norton posted:The main difference between the 550 and 555 is the 550 is three pole and the 555 is 5 pole so it should run a bit smoother but check the stall current. I think both are 10 amps plus!!!
Pete
This probably applies to the 550, 555 as well as most other Mabuchi motors and their knockoffs. Each size comes in a multitude of different windings and their stall current at say 12v will vary with their static resistance which can run from under one ohm to over 50 ohms. At 12v a 50 Ohm static resistance motor will pull less than 1/4 amp at stall where a 1 ohm motor will pull 12amps. This is what that extra writing after 550, 550-xxxx is all about. It tells what winding is in the 550 motor frame. So if you know the current draw at a given voltage you can compute the static resistance or if you know the resistance you can compute the current draw at that same voltage. If you change the voltage the current will change at the same ratio as the voltage change as long as the resistance stays the same.
So Sid, if you have a dc power supply run that 555 at 6v ~ 8v for ten ~ fifteen minutes, with no load, to set the brushes. You can use the electronic E- unit that came in the J if you do not have a good dc power supply (or a battery charger if it has a 6v /12v switch at 6v don't run it in at 12v) Then measure the static resistance like I describe in the first message. Measure five or six times spinning the armature by hand between each measurement. Then average all your readings. if you measure 1 ohm that motor will pull 12A at 12V when stalled you can use it for a drill motor. If you measure 2 ohms it will pull 6A at 12v. If it measures 3 ohms it will pull 4A at 12V. 4 ohms gives 3A at 12v stalled. I know little about the Legacy boards however I bet their current capabilities are not too different than TMCC driver boards and most of them can handle an 8A stall for a short time. Train America Studios even had some 15A boards that could drive four 385 motors and survive a stall. If your 555 has a static resistance between 2 and 3 ohms you are likely OK if you use it with your Legacy driver board. Above 3 ohms you will be cutting into your maximum speed and power output that your driver board can supply. Though it is safe to use you just loose some top speed and a little pulling power. Most of the sellers in china do not give the stall current at rated voltage or the static resistance however Mops Electric on eBay does for most if not all the motors they sell. I sure hope your J has the 21:1 gearbox so much easier to deal with. The 42:1 gearbox alone makes a considerable amount of noise. One thought I keep having, though I have not personally tried, is a Pittman rated at 8~9v might get along well with that crazy gear ratio. It will be operating at the low end of it's torque curve and never heavily loaded even at 12v. That 42:1 gear ratio may eat rpm but it is a beast for torque at the wheels. j
@JohnActon posted:This probably applies to the 550, 555 as well as most other Mabuchi motors and their knockoffs. Each size comes in a multitude of different windings and their stall current at say 12v will vary with their static resistance which can run from under one ohm to over 50 ohms. At 12v a 50 Ohm static resistance motor will pull less than 1/4 amp at stall where a 1 ohm motor will pull 12amps. This is what that extra writing after 550, 550-xxxx is all about. It tells what winding is in the 550 motor frame. So if you know the current draw at a given voltage you can compute the static resistance or if you know the resistance you can compute the current draw at that same voltage. If you change the voltage the current will change at the same ratio as the voltage change as long as the resistance stays the same.
So Sid, if you have a dc power supply run that 555 at 6v ~ 8v for ten ~ fifteen minutes, with no load, to set the brushes. You can use the electronic E- unit that came in the J if you do not have a good dc power supply (or a battery charger if it has a 6v /12v switch at 6v don't run it in at 12v) Then measure the static resistance like I describe in the first message. Measure five or six times spinning the armature by hand between each measurement. Then average all your readings. if you measure 1 ohm that motor will pull 12A at 12V when stalled you can use it for a drill motor. If you measure 2 ohms it will pull 6A at 12v. If it measures 3 ohms it will pull 4A at 12V. 4 ohms gives 3A at 12v stalled. I know little about the Legacy boards however I bet their current capabilities are not too different than TMCC driver boards and most of them can handle an 8A stall for a short time. Train America Studios even had some 15A boards that could drive four 385 motors and survive a stall. If your 555 has a static resistance between 2 and 3 ohms you are likely OK if you use it with your Legacy driver board. Above 3 ohms you will be cutting into your maximum speed and power output that your driver board can supply. Though it is safe to use you just loose some top speed and a little pulling power. Most of the sellers in china do not give the stall current at rated voltage or the static resistance however Mops Electric on eBay does for most if not all the motors they sell. I sure hope your J has the 21:1 gearbox so much easier to deal with. The 42:1 gearbox alone makes a considerable amount of noise. One thought I keep having, though I have not personally tried, is a Pittman rated at 8~9v might get along well with that crazy gear ratio. It will be operating at the low end of it's torque curve and never heavily loaded even at 12v. That 42:1 gear ratio may eat rpm but it is a beast for torque at the wheels. j
I will try and do what you said just to see, but the ebay ad did say 11.7a stall current which is considerably high. My J does have the 42:1 gearbox, but I have done some things to make the entire chassis quieter which actually helped out a lot. I also don't plan to run the thing at a million speed steps. I am still going to buy a new motor, but will do some testing as you said.
Sid I am going to work on a related reply in another thread today and put it under the "What's on your workbench" thread. A project that I have been working on for a couple of months I wanted the 21:1 gearbox out of my Williams L1s Mikado to put in my J so I transferred the 42:1 into the Mikado. I first put a Maxon coreless motor in the chassis and it really ran fine with zero motor noise but I had a difficult time mounting a flywheel on it and I wanted to put a tach reader on the flywheel. I removed the coreless and put a Mabuchi 385 rated at 2 ohms static and 12,500 at 12v that would give a stall current of 6a at 12v which is right on target for most TMCC motor driver boards. First time I read your original post I missed the 11a stall on your Mabuchi. That is playing with fire for most motor driver boards and is about the same static resistance as the original motor. Your motor would have a static resistance of about 1.1 ohm I think the one I pulled from my J was .9 ohm. WHAT WERE THEY THINKING ? $. That kind of current draw eats pick-up rollers as well as your track. I will try and get the post up before I go to bed tonight, earlier if possible. j
While Mabuchi will likely make custom windings for their customers, their catalog only lists two variations. One with a 3.8 amp stall current and with a 10.9 amp stall. The former is listed as a 24 volt motor. I suspect you would have to do some digging as the 12v 11 amp motor seems to be the more common version at the auction sites
https://product.mabuchi-motor.com/detail.html?id=119
https://product.mabuchi-motor.com/detail.html?id=120
Pete
Here is an update. The setup in this clip is very crude looking, but functional. The sounds are all hooked up and the motor is connected. The Mabuchi 555 works perfectly with the BEMC. No codes thrown or anything. I do admit the motor is loud at high speeds which is why I will be installing a new motor. But for all of you who said it wouldn't work, you were wrong. You really need to not judge a book by its cover. This 44:1 gearbox is actually really good for this setup and is extremely quiet. The loud part is the motor. This thing is an amazing model and I can't wait for this to keep developing.
Well here is a little update on the J. I got the new motor installed. I swapped an MTH flywheel on and put the Williams coupling on it. For those of you who are wondering, yes that is a Cannon motor. I'm giving it a chance and if it fails, I learned my lesson. Chuff switch and smoke unit comes next.
Nice job Sid your doing another nice job. Keep up the good work!
Sid, I'd put a PTC in series with that Canon motor. I've had three Legacy locomotives come in at various times with shorted Canon motors, two of the three smoked the RCMC, the 3rd I was able to replace the FET and rescue the RCMC. I'd be looking for around a 2A trip PTC, that will give you peak current of 3 amps or more to the motor for 20-30 seconds, more than enough for any normal running.
The RCMC does sense motor overloads, but Jon Z. informed me that a total short was not always detected and could indeed cook the RCMC, and I have living proof that it can happen, multiple times!
The Canon motors are junk, and I'd reconsider the idea of using it.
@gunrunnerjohn posted:Sid, I'd put a PTC in series with that Canon motor. I've had three Legacy locomotives come in at various times with shorted Canon motors, two of the three smoked the RCMC, the 3rd I was able to replace the FET and rescue the RCMC. I'd be looking for around a 2A trip PTC, that will give you peak current of 3 amps or more to the motor for 20-30 seconds, more than enough for any normal running.
The RCMC does sense motor overloads, but Jon Z. informed me that a total short was not always detected and could indeed cook the RCMC, and I have living proof that it can happen, multiple times!
The Canon motors are junk, and I'd reconsider the idea of using it.
Well it isn't to late. This flywheel can easily mate up to a Pittman. It would be just a basic swap. I will look for a 12v Pittman from Lionel.
You can thank me in the morning!
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Pittman would be best but the 555 with a PTC would be a better choice than a Canon. These at least have a decent track record of not destroying themselves.
I put ERR in a Williams Niagara with a 555 for a local club that has been running it at least hundreds of hours if not thousands with no problems other than tires.
Thats a good Pittman. Its a 61 mm one though so check the space you have. Numbers ending with 33 are 56mm.
Pete
@Norton posted:Pittman would be best but the 555 with a PTC woukd be a better choice than a Canon. These at least have a decent track record of not destroying themselves.
I put ERR in a Williams Niagara with a 555 for a local club that has been running it at least hundreds of hours if not thousands with no problems other than tires.
Pete
The 555 doesn't work with my electronics setup. The stall is way to high and trips the legacy circuit and puts it into safety mode.
Sid, the Mabuchi 555's are not all created equal. There are a ton of variations of them, I've seen some that have high currents, and others that just sip power. However, all things being equal, I'd still go for the Pittman if you can fit it in.
@gunrunnerjohn posted:Sid, the Mabuchi 555's are not all created equal. There are a ton of variations of them, I've seen some that have high currents, and others that just sip power. However, all things being equal, I'd still go for the Pittman if you can fit it in.
Yep. I'm going to order the one I showed above. I will give an update when it comes in. I don't expect much in the way of mods as it should bolt on once I have the some new holes drilled.
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Nice. Glad to see it fit!
I have made some big leaps with this upgrade. I have installed the new Pittman motor, solved some BEMC mysteries, and installed the hall sensor. I mounted it next to the driver and mounted magnets at 12 3 6 9. This thing is so smooth with the 44:1 gear ratio. I'm really looking forward to getting stack and whistle steam installed in this.
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You are a genius!!! I have the Williams J. Even though its old. It is one of my favorites.John
Great work Sid, ....that’s not an easy group of locomotives to tame,....
Pat
@harmonyards posted:Great work Sid, ....that’s not an easy group of locomotives to tame,....
Pat
You can say that again haha. It took some work, but wow is it well worth it.
Just a thought...I also have a Williams brass 611 with original motor and gearing. I converted mine to BPRC using a 12v 2000mah NiMh battery and the Deltang receiver is either 3 or 6A max (I'd have to open up the tender to be sure which Rx is inside), but I've never had it stall yet. When I first had the idea to BPRC it I measured the current and seems like it was 1-1.25A max and I know I have pulled at least 14 unlit passenger cars with it.
All I have wired in are head and rear lights, no markers or class lights (yet) and no sound or smoke. Sound doesn't soak up a lot of amps anyway, don't know about smoke because I refuse to use it.
And yes, the paint job on the J is glossy not flat. My Williams J has a rough paint job on the nose, I believed caused by heat from the old bulbs used.
Excellent job by the way
Seems nice and smooth. What Pittman did you end up going with, since it still has the factory 44:1 gearing?
@Sid's Trains Nice work! For my $.02 I would have used a larger flywheel, one equal to the diameter of the motor. Stored energy is proportionate to the flywheel diameter AND rpm (which is another good reason to keep the original gearbox!)
I'm late to this party. One important fact that no one thought to mention is that the stall current of a motor is only relevant if it's actually allowed to stall. Rubber tires are a devil's bargain. Scale loco builders don't use them. Instead they weight a loco properly, so that when it's overloaded the wheels are still able to spin. If you measure the motor current under these conditions, it will probably be a lot less than 11 amps! Rubber tires also don't allow the wheels to skid. So when the loco enters a sharp "toy-train" curve, there's a rapid and tremendous increase in friction. These Williams brass locos are more flexible than MTH with their tight wheel gauging and one-piece side rods. But when it happens, stored energy in the flywheel and plenty of motor RPM keep the loco from slowing unnaturally, without requiring some kind of closed-loop speed control. If you don't believe me, turn the speed control "off" and experiment for yourself!
I know that the 42:1 gearbox has more enemies than friends on this Forum, but hopefully there's room for more than one opinion, and mine is that it's not a bad thing. 30:1 or 35:1 might be ideal, but it's ok to err on the high side. I personally have no use for high top speeds; if that's what you want, most of the locos out there run that way out of the box. You did well to keep it. It might allow the motor to slip the wheels even with four of those #$@^#$ tires, hence my comment about measuring max current draw in use. Welcome and look forward to seeing more of your work on the Forum!
The Cruise Commander will have no problem at all with the Pittman motor, I've installed it in many locomotives with Pittman motors.
@Robbin posted:Hi Folks, I have a brass Williams J that I want to convert to Lionel Odyssey. I had emailed Electric Railroad and gotten the recommendation of the Cruise Commander and Railsounds Commander Kit. I had no knowledge of the motor issue you all are discussing here. I see the Pittman 12v motors offered by Lionel. I am willing to buy the motor directly and replace what is in the engine. Has anyone done this replacement along with the ERR boards as well? Any advice?
Thanks!!
A Cruise Commander will work with either motor. Before ordering a Pittman, check how much room you have in the engine behind the existing motor. A Pittman 9433 is close to the same length as the existing Mabuchi but a 9434 is about 5 mm longer. Lionel pictures the 12 and 15v motors so you can read each model. Rather than pick a motor by voltage pick it by size. If you have room for a 9434 then it obviously doesn’t matter which one you pick. There is little performance difference between the two voltage ratings. Maybe a bit more low end torque with a 12 v.
Pete
Thanks to you both! I removed the original post (I am technologically challenged and had not seen there was a page 2) because after seeing page 2 I thought my question probably had been covered. But you all had very helpful suggestions and comments. Thanks!
Sid,
Your doing great with your upgrades. I read through the detailed posts in this thread, they are all informative. Let me toss in some of my advice, as the designer of the BEMC, RCMC, Cruise Commander, etc.....
Cannon motors tend to fail in ways that take out the electronics.
Mabuchi and Pittman are great motors for our trains; and the Pittman normally has higher stall currents.
The BEMC has MOSFETS that can handle any of the above motors. The Bridge must have a heatsink, or it will overheat. Overheating the bridge is guaranteed to damage the balance of the motor driver (MOSFETS).
The BEMC does *not* detect stalls; the RCMC does. However both designs do *not* apply full power (high current) at low speeds; which tends to protect the motor driver circuits. Typically the limiting the power to the track is your best protection method for the trains; ie: ZWL or GW-180 which act quickly to remove power in case of an overload.
If you reach a stall current on any Legacy or ElectricRR boards, the MOSFETS will fry in short order. The best way to protect the board is with the polyfuse that GRJ mentions.
Experiment, burn a few boards up, learn, and enjoy running your trains.
@SantaFeFan posted:Experiment, burn a few boards up, learn, and enjoy running your trains.
Gosh, I'm all set! I've lost count of all the boards I've cooked over the years! I'm good for one or two most years!
Well it has been a long while since I gave an update on the engine. It has come a long way since I last showed it. I have also learned some stuff about the BEMC setup along the way. The locomotive is now for the most part complete. It has all the electronics installed, smoke unit installed with 3D printed funnel and a 3D printed whistle steam elbow. Cosmetically it has the Lionel markers as I showed before, a new coal load added, and I blackened the drivers for a more accurate look. I love how this has come out. I have some pictures and a video below. The 44:1 makes it run so smoothly and at nice slow speeds. I can of course crank up the speeds and have it go faster. Sound wise the fat boy does its job with a ton of bass and echo. Finally the smoke unit is fantastic and works well for the stack and whistle. Overall its outstanding and IMO one of the best 611's out there. Tell me what you think and enjoy the video.
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That steam whistle is awesome. I have a Williams J with Proto 3 in it. The blackened Drivers make a huge difference.
I am upgrading a few MTH Premier 4-8-4 PS1 with ERR boards, so not sure if I could add a steam whistle but love its sound.
What exactly did you learn about the BEMC? I happen to have several of them, and I was contemplating using them in an upgrade. Since they have a whistle smoke connection, it would be fun to add that as well.
@gunrunnerjohn posted:What exactly did you learn about the BEMC? I happen to have several of them, and I was contemplating using them in an upgrade. Since they have a whistle smoke connection, it would be fun to add that as well.
You must have a common ground link between the BEMC and RCDR (hard wired). Also you need to use a hall sensor that locks and holds the circuit open or closed when the chuff is activated via magnetic. Mounting the magnet on the driver's is the best option IMO. Make sure to use 16ohm resistors for the whistle and stack steam if you do use this setup.
Well, I'd probably use my Chuff-Generator to do the chuff, it has an open drain FET to trigger the chuffs. I can vary the time it holds the chuff to anything I like with a couple of lines of code.
@gunrunnerjohn posted:Well, I'd probably use my Chuff-Generator to do the chuff, it has an open drain FET to trigger the chuffs. I can vary the time it holds the chuff to anything I like with a couple of lines of code.
Well I used the chuff generator and it didn't work. It gave a double chuff like what a articulated would have. You and I had some emails a while back on that.
Sid, that is by far the best running Williams I’ve ever seen!….fantastic job!!….I had my doubts about the 44:1 gearbox, but you sure whipped it into shape,…..my jaw hit the ground,…you’ve tamed the best,….you got my vote!…🤯
BTW, I knew you had gone back & forth with motor swaps on that engine, so which one did you finally settle on?….whatever you did, keep the recipe handy!…that’s a winner,….looks really good too!!..
Pat
@harmonyards posted:Sid, that is by far the best running Williams I’ve ever seen!….fantastic job!!….I had my doubts about the 44:1 gearbox, but you sure whipped it into shape,…..my jaw hit the ground,…you’ve tamed the best,….you got my vote!…🤯
BTW, I knew you had gone back & forth with motor swaps on that engine, so which one did you finally settle on?….whatever you did, keep the recipe handy!…that’s a winner,….looks really good too!!..
Pat
Thanks. It's sure is nice. I went with a Pittman cause it's proven.
The Pittman was the clear choice.
@gunrunnerjohn posted:The Pittman was the clear choice.
It was. I am glad I went with it. Maybe one day I will do this with a Williams Niagara . I really love the blackened look on the drivers. Modernizes the locomotive.
@Sid's Trains posted:Well I used the chuff generator and it didn't work. It gave a double chuff like what a articulated would have. You and I had some emails a while back on that.
I suspect I might have to do some "fine tuning" on it to make it work. OTOH, I have the technology.
What RCDR did you use with the BEMC?
Looks great! It even sounds great! A lot of videos have disappointing sound but this one is excellent. Good work!
Sid,
If you would like to improve the look of your Class J, I would suggest that you first darken the ends of those axles. Next, brighten up the number plate bezels the five strips on the front of the skyline casing and the handrail stanchions with some silver/chrome paint. One thing too note in the photo below. You will see a brass colored builder's plate. It also should be silver, along with the class plate that you may have on the side of the cylinder chest.
Later, if you happen to be picky, try to find a Lionel trailing truck. I am pretty sure that the one provided by Williams has a brake cylinder mounted on the outside of the truck frame. The J's did not have these.
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Question for you Sid if you don't mind..
I just picked up a much rougher version of your 611 and am going down a similar route - albeit with the ERR modules.
As to the flywheel and motor - how are they attached? Is it a set-screw, or a press-fit? Any info on how the motor to u-joint assembly some apart would be appreciated!
@Escher posted:Question for you Sid if you don't mind..
I just picked up a much rougher version of your 611 and am going down a similar route - albeit with the ERR modules.
As to the flywheel and motor - how are they attached? Is it a set-screw, or a press-fit? Any info on how the motor to u-joint assembly some apart would be appreciated!
The motor and flywheel originally on the locomotive are held on by screws and press fitment. The fitting came off by pressing it off from the back of the flywheel. Hope this helps.
When you're attempting to remote the flywheel, do NOT use the motor case as a prying surface! You must only use the motor shaft and the flywheel in the process of removing a flywheel, prying the flywheel using the motor case will kill the motor.
@gunrunnerjohn posted:When you're attempting to remote the flywheel, do NOT use the motor case as a prying surface! You must only use the motor shaft and the flywheel in the process of removing a flywheel, prying the flywheel using the motor case will kill the motor.
So - I assume there must be a "puller" tool of some sort for this then? Similar to a pulley removal tool for an car engine?
Sid, A few questions on this older thread. Which Pittman did you get in there. 33 or 34 series? Also which FW did you use. Seems like you retained the William shaft and type. Or did you just paint up and stripe the brass one.
Also can you share how you installed smoking whistle? The interior of the shell is two part. Did you just drill through both sections? G
Sid, if you use the BEMC on another steamer, I reprogrammed the Chuff-Generator for the BEMC, and it emulates the hall effect sensor output. This allows you to get perfect timing just by doing the normal calibration. The hall effect sensor toggles between high and low for each trigger, I programmed the C-G to emulate that.
@GGG posted:Sid, A few questions on this older thread. Which Pittman did you get in there. 33 or 34 series? Also which FW did you use. Seems like you retained the William shaft and type. Or did you just paint up and stripe the brass one.
Also can you share how you installed smoking whistle? The interior of the shell is two part. Did you just drill through both sections? G
I do not recall which type of Pittman it was. The flywheel was off of an MTH engine of some sort. I had it in my junk bin. I press fit the Williams coupling on it. The tach tape is not used since a hall effect sensor was used.
@gunrunnerjohn posted:Sid, if you use the BEMC on another steamer, I reprogrammed the Chuff-Generator for the BEMC, and it emulates the hall effect sensor output. This allows you to get perfect timing just by doing the normal calibration. The hall effect sensor toggles between high and low for each trigger, I programmed the C-G to emulate that.
I order a couple from you a while ago. I have used the reprogrammed chuff generator in a couple Weaver Crusaders I put legacy in. I used the BEMC setup similar to this J.
I forgot I sent you some, I guess not many people are using the BEMC. It's not quite an RCMC install, but it's actually not that bad, and you can have a much wider selection of sounds.