Legacy Conversion Williams Brass N&W J Class #611

Sid, you do some fine work but I have to ask, why do you opt for Legacy instead of ERR. Are you adding smoke effects or swinging bell? If not I don't see the advantage other than 200 speed steps instead of 100.

Pete

@Norton posted:

Sid, you do some fine work but I have to ask, why do you opt for Legacy instead of ERR. Are you adding smoke effects or swinging bell? If not I don't see the advantage other than 200 speed steps instead of 100.

Pete

For lots of these locomotives I opt for it because of the whistle steam, speed steps, and sounds. This one is getting whistle steam and there is truly a difference between err sounds an legacy sounds. Sure I could have used the RS5 611 sounds, but the legacy still has a lot of features.

@Norton posted:

Sid, you do some fine work but I have to ask, why do you opt for Legacy instead of ERR. Are you adding smoke effects or swinging bell? If not I don't see the advantage other than 200 speed steps instead of 100.

Pete

Some features I love are the quillable whistle, sequence control, whistle steam, and legacy has good lighting control.

All good reasons. I was just curious. For myself, I like to keep it simple, 4 chuffs and a decent whistle is all I need. BTW I get quillable whistle with my RS4 engines.

Pete

@Norton posted:

All good reasons. I was just curious. For myself, I like to keep it simple, 4 chuffs and a decent whistle is all I need. BTW I get quillable whistle with my RS4 engines.

Pete

When you mean quillable you mean the changing pitches? I have become pretty good at changing the pitches in tmcc locomotives by memorizing patterns.

Sid, be mindful of the stock motor in some of these older Williams pieces, ...they’re known amp hogs....I’d do some testing and know my amp draws before taxing/ destroying expensive things......you might get away with it, or you might not, ....but “ a man’s got to know his limitations” as Clint would say.....you could always Pittman swap it, and surrender some top end speed, but that’d be fine by me....those locomotives are 44:1 gearing......and with the stock motor spinning at warp speed, they like amps.....a lot .....tread lightly....

Pat

@harmonyards posted:

Sid, be mindful of the stock motor in some of these older Williams pieces, ...they’re known amp hogs....I’d do some testing and know my amp draws before taxing/ destroying expensive things......you might get away with it, or you might not, ....but “ a man’s got to know his limitations” as Clint would say.....you could always Pittman swap it, and surrender some top end speed, but that’d be fine by me....those locomotives are 44:1 gearing......and with the stock motor spinning at warp speed, they like amps.....a lot .....tread lightly....

Pat

I totally forgot to mention I swapped the motor with a 555ph from ebay. If it doesn't work I will get a Pittman to swap. From everything I have read the 555 is a much better motor.

The main difference between the 550 and 555 is the 550 is three pole and the 555 is 5 pole so it should run a bit smoother but check the stall current. I think both are 10 amps plus!!!

Pete

@Sid's Trains posted:

I totally forgot to mention I swapped the motor with a 555ph from ebay. If it doesn't work I will get a Pittman to swap. From everything I have read the 555 is a much better motor.

Good deal, .....the 555’s available on the bay are rpm’ed much like a Pittman, so, with the 555 you will surrender some top end speed, but no harm no foul IMO, .....the original motors are something silly like 12K rpm......the 555 will give you better starting performance too, ....ain’t nothing like a Pittman, that’s for sure, but it’s a way better choice than the wiper motor they used from the get-go.......that 550 is landfill material....

Pat

And do what Pete said!!....check that stall current, .....that’s a must!...I completely forgot that.....you’ll begin creeping up on stall currents as power is applied to the motor, before it begins to spin the motor.....so yes!...knowing stall currents is a must!,....good point Pete!..

Pat

@harmonyards posted:

And do what Pete said!!....check that stall current, .....that’s a must!...I completely forgot that.....you’ll begin creeping up on stall currents as power is applied to the motor, before it begins to spin the motor.....so yes!...knowing stall currents is a must!,....good point Pete!..

Pat

Woah yeah I just checked the ebay ad and it said stall current is 11.8 a. Hmm. This motor looks like it won't work. It wouldn't blow the board, but instead make the cab light flash and not allow the Engine to move. So it looks like I will have to go the Pitman or Cannon route. Any ideas on which Pittman or Cannon motor will fit?

The TMCC 611 used a 9433 Pittman. The Legacy 611 used a Canon. The Pittman is close to the same size as a 550. You only have to drill new holes in the motor mount and the Wiiliams flywheel or drive coupling to 4mm.

Pete

@Norton posted:

The TMCC 611 used a 9433 Pittman. The Legacy 611 used a Canon. The Pittman is close to the same size as a 550. You only have to drill new holes in the motor mount and the Wiiliams flywheel or drive coupling to 4mm.

Pete

What about the cannon? I ask because parts for Pittman's are getting harder and harder to find.

Pete’s quicker on the draw today...I’m trying to get two dozen Railking bantams up & running, so I’m straying from the forum....be sure to get a 12 volt Pittman, ...a 15.1 or a 19.1 in a Williams isn’t the best choice,.....the way that lousy gear box is, you’ll be throttling forever before it begins to move......

Pat

You just found one. You can get that one from Lionel. Part number shown. Avoid Canons if possible. No comparison to a Pittman in quality as least in version Lionel uses.

Edit, listen to Pat. He is the Pittman maven. The Lionel one shown is a 15 volt.

Pete

@harmonyards posted:

Pete’s quicker on the draw today...I’m trying to get two dozen Railking bantams up & running, so I’m straying from the forum....be sure to get a 12 volt Pittman, ...a 15.1 or a 19.1 in a Williams isn’t the best choice,.....the way that lousy gear box is, you’ll be throttling forever before it begins to move......

Pat

Ok. So the one Pete showed me is a 15.1. Do you have a 12v part number?

It takes me forever to open up Lionel’s parts web site, ....I live way back in the woods of NC,......do a search on Lionel’s parts site for Pittman motors, look for a number beginning in 9433, the prefix’s after that don't mean that much for what your doing....pick one rated at 12v, .......be sure it’s still available....if you have any questions, post up a pic of your findings, and we’ll help you from there.....

Pat

@harmonyards posted:

It takes me forever to open up Lionel’s parts web site, ....I live way back in the woods of NC,......do a search on Lionel’s parts site for Pittman motors, look for a number beginning in 9433, the prefix’s after that don't mean that much for what your doing....pick one rated at 12v, .......be sure it’s still available....if you have any questions, post up a pic of your findings, and we’ll help you from there.....

Pat

Ok. Just curious, what do you not like about Cannon motors?

@Sid's Trains posted:

Ok. Just curious, what do you not like about Cannon motors?

Total junk as well IMO....another low bid part from the big L,......as I’ve mentioned before in other threads, unfortunately Pittman ( AMETEK ) has priced themselves right out of our hobby....I’ve replaced 2 cannons, one in my own Legacy, and the other in a buddy’s.....If you do some digging, Pittmans can still be had for reasonable money...

Pat