Legacy Mogul Success Story

So Do you want to sell it now?

Not for $349!

I love a good ending... nice job. I'll have to see if I have any of those MTH traction tires, but mine seems to be running fine since Lionel serviced it after the initial issues.

Now I just need to figure out how to take better pics and movies.

Just sent you email!

The thing that really wowed me about the Mogul was the smoke, it's MTH level smoke!  Boy, that sucker is a SMOKER!  I turned it down to low and it's still filling the room!

It is a nice looking small loco.  A lot of work involved though, and I sort of have .  I love small locos but I think I will pass on doing the same.  

Surely is a GREAT looking loco, though, I must say - just a jewel. 

I am most certainly NOT in the market for one of these (or anything else named Mogul) but I admire your perseverance, explanation and the result! 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

Lee, for $349 I wanted one, and actually the effort wasn't all that much to get it running.  I admit, it could have been a total loser and I'd be out the money, but that's the risks you take.

Glad they arrived OK John. The bushings were actually undersize but likey the rods were egged out. In cases like than I place the bushing on the screw and use it to spread the rod back round as its screwed in.

It really only takes a few minutes once you have done one. 10 minutes to make the bushings, 5 minutes to put them in, another 5 minutes to remove the front drivers and install the tires. Swapping wheelsets front to back another 5 minutes.

Pete

Pete, I didn't see any deformity in the rods, and this was truly a virgin, it had never been powered up since it was built, I unpacked it from a sealed factory box.  The bushings are clamped by the rod screws, so they had to rotate freely in the rod.  It was no big deal to take my Cratex wheel and polish the outside as it rotated on a rod to take about .1mm off. 

The envelope actually arrived a day later than it should, it showed up in the USPS notification on Monday, but didn't make it until today.

Once I had taken everything apart a time or two, you're right, it's pretty quick to swap things around.  Being able to take the bottom plate off is very handy, it would be a giant PITA to work on the front drivers if you couldn't take them out.

Thanks again for the bushings, my little locomotive is all happy now.

Great story with a happy ending 

Alex 

And I have to thank you Alex, you made it all possible by sucking me in with that good price.

Pete,

How do you make the bushings?

@Tracker John posted:

Pete,

How do you make the bushings?

I have lathes and just use whatever brass I have handy. I would like to tell you there is some off the shelf tubing that would fit but I am not aware of any.

Pete

Awesome job John.

Pete, Do you have any particular lathe that you recommend for work on O Gauge trains.  Pat B.

Pat, for this just job pretty much any lathe will do, even the smallest Unimat.

I did this on my old (ca 1970) 6" Atlas lathe. I have a larger more accurate Rockwell too, also of some vintage. It just involved turning and drilling with checking to make sure I was close.

If I was looking for one to work on trains, the Sherline would do most of what I use my tools for. I got them to make motorcycle parts so needed larger equipment.

This is the part that was made only because Lionel is sold out of them. It was included in every Mogul prior to the Legacy engine.

Pete

I'm still at a loss as to how Lionel left this critical part out!  I'm not seeing all the oddities that were claimed for these, it runs really well.  The bushings and getting rid of the fat Lionel tires made it like a new locomotive.

gunrunnerjohn, have you featured your trains or layout here on the OGR Forum?  Though my built date reads: BLT 7-4-1946 Dallas, Texas, I'm a Fall Guy for the railroads of the Northeast* and New England.  I note that since you're a member of the North Penn O-Gaugers Modular RR Club I assume you model the railroads in this part of the U.S.A.  Please correct me if I'm wrong. 

73

Joe

*The Strasburg Rail Road is at the top of my favorites.  Really enjoy watching the live YouTube presentation when their x-NYC SW Diesel Switcher interchanges freight with the Norfolk Southern at Paradise.  This is where the ghost of the late great PENNSYLVANIA RAILROAD still runs!

GRJ,

Strictly out of curiosity, how did that engine get from Alex's house to your house last week? Looks like it arrived in good shape!

Seriously, if I recall correctly this engine had a swinging bell. How does it work?

Erol 

I just found all the boxes on my front step one day, it was a miracle!

Erol, it doesn't have a swinging bell, that was the recent H10 (actually an H9).  Although I beat that one into shape as well, it didn't arrive 100%.

The Mogul does have some great smoke, looks like an MTH locomotive.

Easy to add a swinging bell on the Mogul though. Good idea Erol.

Pete

I wonder if there's enough room for the coil and the bell control board?

I would do it like I did on my Mikado with a gear motor in the cab. Then you only have to cram in the bell board.

Pete

The coil is the small part.

That is what is great about the forum; congrats to GRJ and Norton; so in summary the fixes to the Mogul are the brass bushings, the right size tires, and a YLB for the tender; I think.

gunrunnerjohn, in case you missed my post, I'd like to see your collection.  Your B&M 2-6-0 sure looks good.  B&M rostered them to work branch lines if I remember.  Do you have a model of the Flying Yankee?

73

Joe 

Great story. I remember having talked with John about the big issues with the Moguls. I never would have thought such a little engine would be such a giant problem.

John, are you going to post a video of this thing smoking you out? 

Well, all I have is a loop of track until I can get my layout track down.  Working with a bum shoulder right now, I can't handle the heavier construction without assistance, so I'm in a holding pattern.

@RickM46 posted:

That is what is great about the forum; congrats to GRJ and Norton; so in summary the fixes to the Mogul are the brass bushings, the right size tires, and a YLB for the tender; I think.

Well, that's the fixes to this particular sample, I don't know about all the others that are out there.  I've heard tell of all sorts of stuff, but I was having difficulty believing all the various issues people were reporting.  Pete tinkered with a couple and he's way better than average at working out mechanical issues, so when he opined that the major issue was the missing bushings, I bit for Alex's bargain.  As it turns out, it was a good bet in my case.

@Trinity River Bottoms Boomer posted:

gunrunnerjohn, in case you missed my post, I'd like to see your collection.  Your B&M 2-6-0 sure looks good.  B&M rostered them to work branch lines if I remember.  Do you have a model of the Flying Yankee?

No Flying Yankee, much of my stuff is still in boxes right now as I'm in the process of building the layout.  My progress, or lack of progress, is chronicled in this thread: New Train Room Finally Getting A Layout!

As for the collection, about 40-50% of my locomotives are on the shelves, the rest are still in boxes.

Hi John,  what model no is the oil burning 4014? Often you see them with the red wheels for the ash pan. I believe  Yours is correct.

That is the MTH Premier from the 2017 Catalog.  I got it as a contrast with the Vision Line one above it, original and as refurbished.

Thanks John, for sharing part of your collection with an "Armchair Model Railroader!"  I like what I see and all I can say is...WOW!

Though I live in an apartment, I do have a nice clean dry albeit compact room, downstairs in the basement, which will see a shelf layout materialize when my neighbor retires next year.  I don't possess the skills he does and I want it done right from the Get Go!  I sold what LGB large scale I had collected and have decided to enter my second childhood.  I had O27 in my youth but always was envious of the kids on the block who had O gauge instead.  I am seriously considering using Ross Custom Switches track and switches.  Overseas shipping won't be cheap I know, but I've been impressed with their products ever since I first saw their ads in OGR years ago.

Because of space limitations, I plan to obtain a traditional Lionel Pennsylvania Railroad GG1 to begin with.  It's no secret that Märklin's HO scale catenary works well and looks great when "hung" over O gauge track.  I have always been in love with The Congressional, and here too, Lionel traditional passenger cars will come to the rescue!

Until then, with permission, I'll continue to follow your New Train Room series here on the OGR Forum.

73

Joe Toth Jr.

I served with pride in the U.S. Army Transportation Corps, stationed in Germany as a Movement Control Specialist in the 49th Transportation Group: 1964-1967.  I was assigned to the U.S. Team Ansbach of the Büro der Deutsche Bundeswehr Vekehrskommandantur.  We cleared U.S. Army convoys for movement to and from the training areas in Northern Bavaria with the German Traffic Office.  I was a pencil pusher, having attended the U.S. Army Transportation School at Ft. Eustus, VA.  This was during the autumn of '64.  There I witnessed Saturday AM Steam ups with USATC 2-8-0s!  Then once here in Germany I was suddenly exposed to all the Deutsche Budesbahn steam a young 18 year old GI could soak in!     

GRJ,

I just got my MTH DE-0000027 traction tires to swap out for the Lionel ones on my Grand Trunk Legacy Mogul. It regularly picks one of my 072 switches. The manual says simply to use the wrench provided (a mini socket wrench, lower part of the photo) to remove the drive rod screw. But access is obstructed by overlying parts - not sure of the proper names. What is your method and type of wrench to remove the front drive rod screws?

I was easily able to remove the rear drive rod screws and install the new MTH traction tires on the rear drive wheels. But now I want to remove the front Lionel traction tires. I guess I could just cut them but would prefer to not damage them.

Thanks, Bob

I envy you with all that room for a layout.  Despite the fact continuing health issues have derailed any plans for a small layout in my basement, I enjoy watching the progress you've made on yours, and that of other OGR members layouts too.  This is the fun I mentioned on another thread.

Though not a look alike, the B&M 2-6-0 still reminds me somewhat of the Moguls that The Katy operated on the Northwestern which faithfully served the wheat country of the Oklahoma panhandle.  Katy steam always looked sharp with the metal M-K-T heralds that graced the sides on the tenders.  

Peace brother

Joe

@Bob "O" posted:

GRJ,

I just got my MTH DE-0000027 traction tires to swap out for the Lionel ones on my Grand Trunk Legacy Mogul. It regularly picks one of my 072 switches. The manual says simply to use the wrench provided (a mini socket wrench, lower part of the photo) to remove the drive rod screw. But access is obstructed by overlying parts - not sure of the proper names. What is your method and type of wrench to remove the front drive rod screws?

I was easily able to remove the rear drive rod screws and install the new MTH traction tires on the rear drive wheels. But now I want to remove the front Lionel traction tires. I guess I could just cut them but would prefer to not damage them.

Thanks, Bob

Bob, the easy way to remove the front drive rod screw is to remove the screws from the center driver first, plus the rods, spacers, and bushings. That will allow you to slide the main rods under the crossheads after pushing them all the way foward and also to rotate the driver so the screw holding the rod on is between the crosshead guides.

BTW Bob I believe John said putting the tires on the rear drivers is not a good idea since they are sprung. It will exacerbate the jerky motion especially if you haven't addressed the excess spacing at the front drive rod either with bushings or the larger shoulder screw.

Pete

Thanks, Pete! I missed seeing GRJ's advice to avoid putting the traction tires on the rear drivers. I will take them off and follow your instructions for getting at the front drive rod screws.

I bought this locomotive from my LHS last January. The owner said it had been back to Lionel for the "fix" for the jerkiness. It has run well for me and smokes like a champ, as others have said - just the switch picking issue.

Will report later.

Bob

BTW Bob, did you replace the rear driver set with a set for the front drivers? Only the fronts have the groove to accept the tires. The way to put the traction tires on the rear is to swap driver sets front to back. On this engine its fairly easy as the bottom plate comes off but given John's experience not recommended.

Your engine must have been sent back to China where they apparently changed the front siderods with ones that had a smaller hole to work with the small shoulder screws.

Pete

I moved the traction tires back to the front, as Pete says, no-go on the rear.  As for the rod screw, I have a set of Wiha drivers, and even with them, I had to slim down the one that fit that screw to fit in.   I have to say, I got pretty fast as swapping them around after several trips back and forth, I'm happy you can do this without much fanfare.

As I find issues with using the drivers, I've whittled several of them down to make them fit in the odd recesses of various rod sets.  I just take them to the grinder and carefully take material off the outside until they the right diameter.  Next, you frequently have to flatten the face of the driver to grip the really thin head of the rod screws, the round profile of the factory driver slips off many times from the thinner heads.

Pete,

No, I didn't swap the front and rear driver wheel sets. I just slipped the MTH traction tires onto the rear drivers as they were. Yikes, I had no idea that there was supposed to be grooves for the traction tires. I have lots to learn in this hobby!

Thanks, Bob

That must have made for interesting running!

Thanks for all the coaching Pete and GRJ! Made the traction tire switch - MTH tires now on the grooved front drivers. Got all the drive rods back in the correct order and tested it. Works like a charm and goes through the problem switch without derailing. I’m a happy camper. Thanks again for your prompt replies and willingness to guide and encourage.
Bob

John,

Even though you did a great job fixing this engine, what still impresses me more than anything else is how the engine got safely to your house from Alex's house. Very impressive.

Erol

I had faith that it would arrive safely, otherwise I've have put a few engine boxes out in the driveway and backed over them.

GRJ - do you have an opinion or evidence as to whether the new Lionel Legacy Moguls would operate on O22 switches?  I've queried Lionel, and they say no, but I'm wondering if there might be a fix.

Sadly, I don't have any O22 switches or track to actually put one on it to try.  I don't know why if it's rated for O31 that it wouldn't do the switches, but it may be it hits the switch motors.