Legacy sound chips

I'm pretty sure the Legacy sound stuff is proprietary and I believe the only way you can get something new is to return your existing item for replacement. Lionel might be your only way to change something here, if they are willing that is. 

I'm sure someone will correct me if I am wrong, but that is what I recall reading around here somewhere.

I don't think you can do much tinkering with Lionel electronics. 

You can't pick and choose individual sound clips but you could swap out the whole board assuming both are the same version of Railsounds or if the replacement is an older version such as replacing a RS6 board with RS5.5. 

Does you engine have specific roadname and cab number mentioned? Does the replacement? Lionel has elimnated those specifics in the last few years with the exception of Vision engines. I consider that a plus as it enables swapping. 

Pete

Keep in mind you have an articulated so if you use sounds from the 844 the rest of the sounds will be goofy. 

First, Lionel had a change in their PCB policy which was quietly announced on the dealer web portal. You do not need to return PCBs. Most of the Legacy boards are available but you have to call Lionel and they limit you to one at a time. 

For your case, your B&O EM-1 uses a newer Railsounds lite board in conjunction with an RCMC. But the Big Boy uses the older RS 5.5. I don’t know whether there is a simple way to make that change without some advanced effort that impacts several other boards and connectors 

RCMC will talk to RS6 and RS5.5 and below. The receiver in the engine with RS5.5 will not talk to RS6.

Pete

Norton posted:

RCMC will talk to RS6 and RS5.5 and below. The receiver in the engine with RS5.5 will not talk to RS6.

Pete

But couldn’t an older R2LC or R4LC card based system send serial data to a separate RSL card, or will an RSL only communicate with the RCMC platform?

GregR posted:

Norton posted:

RCMC will talk to RS6 and RS5.5 and below. The receiver in the engine with RS5.5 will not talk to RS6.

Pete

But couldn’t an older R2LC or R4LC card based system send serial data to a separate RSL card, or will an RSL only communicate with the RCMC platform?

It could send data but the Legacy sound card wouldn't do anything with it. They require 9 bit data and TMCC radio boards only output 8 bit data. 

Anyone who wants to do custom Railsounds will have to figure out how to program their own chips. I doubt Lionel will release this info and I don't believe you can reverse engineer the existing chips.

Stick with DCS if you want to make custom sound sets.

Pete

The Legacy EM-1 from 2012 uses the RailSounds Lite type board - very similar in design and build to the boards offered by Electric Railroad Co., but for Legacy.

In a perfect world, you could replace that with the RailSounds Lite board used for the 2015 release of the UP FEF-3, though I'm not sure if Lionel will give you the board even if you decided to trade it in. Legacy RailSounds boards after 2011 are almost impossible to buy outright from Lionel even if you have the money.

Mikado 4501 posted:

Legacy RailSounds boards after 2011 are almost impossible to buy outright from Lionel even if you have the money.

And yet I was able to simply pick up the phone and order the sound board from the 2014 Legacy Cab Forward, I wonder why that is.

Perhaps it was a change to policy:

Yep Greg, perhaps it was.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Mikado 4501 posted:

Legacy RailSounds boards after 2011 are almost impossible to buy outright from Lionel even if you have the money.

And yet I was able to simply pick up the phone and order the sound board from the 2014 Legacy Cab Forward, I wonder why that is.

Yes, and I ordered a Legacy SD-40 sound card destined for a 1989 Pullmor powered SD-40. There's something classy about Legacy Railsounds combined with a buzzing E-unit.... Then again maybe I jump "all in" and do a full conversion

I guess this all went down while I was in school. Shame, since I could've used things like the 2-8-0 and Crescent sound boards a year or two ago for my own conversions.

GregR posted:

First, Lionel had a change in their PCB policy which was quietly announced on the dealer web portal. You do not need to return PCBs. Most of the Legacy boards are available but you have to call Lionel and they limit you to one at a time. 

Does that apply to dealers only?  Or can the general public order these boards as well?

Just curious and good info to know. 

Edit: Reading further down after posting this, it does sound like this includes everyone. 

Anybody with money Tom.

Thanks, GRJ. I'll start saving! 

Norton posted:

You can't pick and choose individual sound clips but you could swap out the whole board assuming both are the same version of Railsounds or if the replacement is an older version such as replacing a RS6 board with RS5.5. 

Does you engine have specific roadname and cab number mentioned? Does the replacement? Lionel has elimnated those specifics in the last few years with the exception of Vision engines. I consider that a plus as it enables swapping. 

 

Pete

 

My engine is a Baltimore and Ohio #7621.  By specific road number do you mean digitally?

Most Lionel Railsounds 4, 5, and some Legacy Railsounds have tower com and later Crew talk that mention the cab number of the engine they were placed in along with a Roadname. If your engine had one of these specific Railsounds boards and you hit Aux1 7 the tower com would say some to the effect "B&O 7621 is clear to leave the yard". A generic RS board would not refer to either the roadname or cab number, more like "engineer you are clear to leave the yard". You can get a board that has a more pleasing whistle to you but everytime you hit crew talk or tower com it would mention some other engine like NYC 5344, etc.

Pete

Norton posted:

Most Lionel Railsounds 4, 5, and some Legacy Railsounds have tower com and later Crew talk that mention the cab number of the engine they were placed in along with a Roadname. If your engine had one of these specific Railsounds boards and you hit Aux1 7 the tower com would say some to the effect "B&O 7621 is clear to leave the yard". A generic RS board would not refer to either the roadname or cab number, more like "engineer you are clear to leave the yard". You can get a board that has a more pleasing whistle to you but everytime you hit crew talk or tower com it would mention some other engine like NYC 5344, etc.

Pete

Ok, so the answer is yes, I do have a specific road name and engine number.  However, I don't mind if it says something else as I rarely use crew talk.

Will Ebbert posted:

Keep in mind you have an articulated so if you use sounds from the 844 the rest of the sounds will be goofy.

I would rather have the dual chuffing.  Technically I could cheat by lining  up the coupling rods so that they are in sync, that way it would at least look like what it sounds like.  XD

The later Legacy boards no longer have engine specific crewtalk, so you may be able to find one that doesn't have the road name or cab number.

Norton posted:

RCMC will talk to RS6 and RS5.5 and below. The receiver in the engine with RS5.5 will not talk to RS6.

Pete

Have you done a retrofit before, or swapped an entire tender RS6 out for one with RS5.5?  I can't tell if the RS5.5 boards will be plug and play.  I am willing to solder, but I want to make sure this will work before I commit to cutting things up.

It's somewhat of a moot point unless you're willing to do a lot of hacking.  Your locomotive uses the RS Lite one piece audio board, all the boards Pete is mentioning need a motherboard, power supply board, and the audio board.  There will be significant rewiring involved.

You best bet is just order another Railsounds lite board. Many are past warranty now so you should be able to order one.

My experience with this started with trying to drive a modular RS6 board with an early Legacy R4LC which was used in an engine with RS5.5, also early Legacy. It didn't work. After swaping out tenders and engines with various versions of driver boards, RCMCs, R4LCs in different code versions, RCDRs, I learned that RS 5.5 requires a single 9 bit word but RS 6 actually requires a pair of 9 bits words. Thats why you can't talk to RS6 with an early receiver that only transmits one word. You can drive RS5.5 with an RCMC but that may require more support boards as John suggests.

Lionel doesn't offer sound clips like ERR does so you will have to listen to actual engines to determine if that board will work for you.

Pete

I called Lionel and they were didn't have any RS5.5 boards.  They checked their inventory for the UP's sound board but also any RS 5.5 boards that they could reprogram.  Theoretically this means you could get one second hand and send it in to Lionel to be reprogramed to match any engine. 

For now I think I am going to stick with the original sound board, but I will keep this in mind for the future.  If I do decide to swap the boards out, I will post with the results.  Thanks guys, I appreciate all the help!

TK301 posted:

I called Lionel and they were didn't have any RS5.5 boards.  They checked their inventory for the UP's sound board but also any RS 5.5 boards that they could reprogram.  Theoretically this means you could get one second hand and send it in to Lionel to be reprogramed to match any engine. 

For now I think I am going to stick with the original sound board, but I will keep this in mind for the future.  If I do decide to swap the boards out, I will post with the results.  Thanks guys, I appreciate all the help!

I'm thinking that you received some bad information and/or the message somehow became garbled in translation.

First, Lionel has dozens of different versions of those boards in stock. RS5 and RS5.5 use the same boards, only the PIC and ROM chips are different. RS5.0 is TMCC, and RS5.5 is Legacy. You can see them here.

Second, the PIC and ROM chips are what contain the programming and actual sounds for an item, but those chips are OTP -- one time programmable. In other words, they can't be reprogrammed by Lionel or anyone else. At one time Lionel would program new chips with the needed software and sounds with the purchase of a board, but I understand that their chip supply has been exhausted and they're no longer being manufactured.

Having said all that, it wouldn't be an easy project to put a RS5.5 system into a tender that is equipped with a RailSounds Lite board. To start, you'd also need a RailSounds Universal Board Supply Board as well as an appropriate motherboard, and that's assuming that the electronics in your locomotive can communicate with the RS5.5 board.

TRW