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@MELGAR posted:

Can someone please clarify about the "magnets" for me? I'm not aware of any magnets on these models. Where would they be and what would be their purpose?

MELGAR

In the catalog it mentioned the following:

CP Nameplate 2

CP Name Pl;ate

Perhaps they plan to cover CANADIAN PACIFIC with P&R or anything else they may have done for the fan trips.

972 P&R

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Images (4)
  • CP Nameplate 2
  • CP Name Pl;ate
  • 972 P&R
  • 972 P&R
Last edited by NYC Fan

So Lionel forgot to make them. My dealer got this email from Lionel:

“They are aware and are making the plates now. They hope to have then in service in about a month.

The plates will come with both tape and magnets depending on how the customer would like to install them (put magnets inside the shell or put the tape on the back of the plates.) If customers call in to CS, we can get them on the list to mail these out when they arrive.  If any dealers need these for product they may still have in store, they can also reach out and we can send them sets to put in the box before sale.”

Thank you for the information. I will definitely be contacting customer service.

@NYC Fan posted:

In the catalog it mentioned the following:

CP Nameplate 2

CP Name Pl;ate

Perhaps they plan to cover CANADIAN PACIFIC with P&R or anything else they may have done for the fan trips.

972 P&R

Lionel's page for them shows three separate pictures, each with different tender lettering. The effect is supposed to be exactly as you said for fan trips. http://www.lionel.com/products...y-4-6-0-972-2131060/

Earlier there were some questions about using neolube to darken the smoke boxes on these locos

I found that neolube would stain, get blotchy and darken from the smoke oil that will leak from filling and use. Using a solvent based paint paint may be a better alternative.

If the only issues on these locos are cosmetic I would count myself lucky!

@Jim Sandman posted:

I just ordered the custom run Strasburg one from Nicholas Smith, supposedly only 25 painted this way.  My son has been wanting a Strasburg engine to run with the MTH Strasburg passenger cars.

STRASBURG 4-6-0 #972 - Nicholas Smith Trains

Jim

I did see that out there when I was looking around a few days ago. It does look good, hopefully the boiler is graphite and not "striking silver" or "light battleship gray". Good luck.

I did see that out there when I was looking around a few days ago. It does look good, hopefully the boiler is graphite and not "striking silver" or "light battleship gray". Good luck.

By all appearances, the ten wheelers are all the same. Battleship gray it is unless it was designed to be black or something else. Lionel graphite either shows up as graphite, battleship gray, or silver.  Someone somewhere in the Lionel organization can explain why and how it happens, but to the outside world it’s a roll of the dice. As a consumer, I don’t really care how they get to what is or isn’t as advertised (i.e, catalogued), I just wish they could figure out how to tell us what is coming. For example, I’m stoked for one of the upcoming Legacy Pacifics. If Ryan or Dave would just come out and say “hey, our manufacturer for those can only do battleship gray” that would be helpful (and honest) and I could cancel. Otherwise, I feel like I’m sticking it to my dealer (and friend) if I want to cancel.

By all appearances, the ten wheelers are all the same. Battleship gray it is unless it was designed to be black or something else. Lionel graphite either shows up as graphite, battleship gray, or silver.  Someone somewhere in the Lionel organization can explain why and how it happens, but to the outside world it’s a roll of the dice. As a consumer, I don’t really care how they get to what is or isn’t as advertised (i.e, catalogued), I just wish they could figure out how to tell us what is coming. For example, I’m stoked for one of the upcoming Legacy Pacifics. If Ryan or Dave would just come out and say “hey, our manufacturer for those can only do battleship gray” that would be helpful (and honest) and I could cancel. Otherwise, I feel like I’m sticking it to my dealer (and friend) if I want to cancel.

Yeah, I would say the same thing. My dealer is definitely my friend. I listen to good advice and if I need something, he can probably get it for me depending on what exactly it is. I'm sure within reason, I could ask for something that may be somewhat hard to get, he would probably be able to get it.

I missed that one Jim, I just put in an order!  Thanks for mentioning it, since Lionel refuses to make a real Strasburg locomotive, I'll use this one.  I was considering the Camelback Lionel offered, but I like this choice better.

Yeah, this just kills me--always waiting for a model of a SRR steam prototype to pull my nice coaches, but for now I'm going to settle on the Legacy SW8 and pretend it's for an ultra rare excursion some kind.  At least they actually have one and the Lionel version and it's livery seem to be pretty well done...

Last edited by Tuscan Jim

By all appearances, the ten wheelers are all the same. Battleship gray it is unless it was designed to be black or something else. Lionel graphite either shows up as graphite, battleship gray, or silver.  Someone somewhere in the Lionel organization can explain why and how it happens, but to the outside world it’s a roll of the dice. As a consumer, I don’t really care how they get to what is or isn’t as advertised (i.e, catalogued), I just wish they could figure out how to tell us what is coming. For example, I’m stoked for one of the upcoming Legacy Pacifics. If Ryan or Dave would just come out and say “hey, our manufacturer for those can only do battleship gray” that would be helpful (and honest) and I could cancel. Otherwise, I feel like I’m sticking it to my dealer (and friend) if I want to cancel.

Because of "Build To Order" those of us who want a particular item are forced to preorder to make sure we get one. I know some distributors order more and you can sometimes find these items for sale after they've been delivered. But not always. The more popular road names may be gone by the time they come out. But preordering should not and need not be a crap shoot if Lionel would pay attention to what is being manufactured and insure that the production model is faithful to the catalog representation.

Has anyone returned one of these high end preordered locomotives because of these issues? Most of us have good relationships with our dealers and don't want to ruin that by refusing an item they preordered. I know I stood there with my mouth open when I unboxed my Vision Line Niagara. It was a real WTF moment! But it wasn't my dealers fault and, being a friend, I wasn't about to make it his problem.

Until this whole issue becomes Lionel's problem, I don't see anything getting done to correct it. Right now it seems to be the consumer's problem. Are the dealers and distributers off the hook? I know it's not their fault but somehow this problem has to get back to being Lionel's problem.

I'd love to hear everyones thoughts.

Last edited by NYC Fan

I feel your pain Skip.  No more Lionel anything until they get their act together.  Whether it's Wrong paint (Niagara, Hudson, this engine), mechanical defects (mogul), couplers that don't couple (milk cars and other latest rolling stock), paint that chips off (Milk cars).  I'm DONE!!!!

I agree with you about it's not the dealers fault to a point.  Once a defect has been discovered and is well known, dealers need to take defective inventory off the shelves and send it back.  How many dealers out there have the latest Milk car on shelves and know about the paint issues and the coupler issues yet continue to sell to unsuspecting customers????   Plus Lionel which does not own up to their mistakes, which needs to change and they needs to recall their defective products.   

There, I've done my rant for the week.  I now return you to your regularly scheduled programing

Last edited by superwarp1
@NYC Fan posted:

Because of "Build To Order" those of us who want a particular item are forced to preorder to make sure we get one. I know some distributors order more and you can sometimes find these items for sale after they've been delivered. But not always. The more popular road names may be gone by the time they come out. But preordering should not and need not be a crap shoot if Lionel would pay attention to what is being manufactured and insure that the production model is faithful to the catalog representation.



I'd love to hear everyones thoughts.

My thoughts exactly. I have a few items that I am interested in ordering if they are in upcoming catalogs, but I do not want to bet on the "Quality Control aspects" with my wallet.

I really wanted to get one of the latest N&W J's (my local dealer always orders extra) until I saw the bright orange paint.

The PRR H10's looked HORRIBLE or I would have bought one. From the silver smokebox to the yellow whistle, bell, and pop valves (they should be gold). The tender deck and cab roof were also not the (IMO) the correct shade of red. I know there's an entire thread on this alone... but I think all colors on the PRR engines should match the colors currently found on the engines at RRMPA as they are (truly) the experts.

@NYC Fan posted:

Because of "Build To Order" those of us who want a particular item are forced to preorder to make sure we get one. I know some distributors order more and you can sometimes find these items for sale after they've been delivered. But not always. The more popular road names may be gone by the time they come out. But preordering should not and need not be a crap shoot if Lionel would pay attention to what is being manufactured and insure that the production model is faithful to the catalog representation.

Has anyone returned one of these high end preordered locomotives because of these issues? Most of us have good relationships with our dealers and don't want to ruin that by refusing an item they preordered. I know I stood there with my mouth open when I unboxed my Vision Line Niagara. It was a real WTF moment! But it wasn't my dealers fault and, being a friend, I wasn't about to make it his problem.

Until this whole issue becomes Lionel's problem, I don't see anything getting done to correct it. Right now it seems to be the consumer's problem. Are the dealers and distributers off the hook? I know it's not their fault but somehow this problem has to get back to being Lionel's problem.

I'd love to hear everyones thoughts.

Yeah, if I order something from my dealer, there's no way I'd say sorry, this isn't right, I'm not buying it. The dealers I would say feel our pain as well as if they stock some on the shelves from ordering extras, there's less of a chance to sell a purple nosed Hudson that is supposed to be graphite. Yeah, I'm exaggerating a lot there, but heck, that's how we all feel anyway.

@NYC Fan posted:

Because of "Build To Order" those of us who want a particular item are forced to preorder to make sure we get one. I know some distributors order more and you can sometimes find these items for sale after they've been delivered. But not always. The more popular road names may be gone by the time they come out. But preordering should not and need not be a crap shoot if Lionel would pay attention to what is being manufactured and insure that the production model is faithful to the catalog representation.

Has anyone returned one of these high end preordered locomotives because of these issues?

Yes.

Last edited by GregM

Skip, you’ve hit the nail squarely on the head.  Until it creates pain for Lionel, it will probably never change. These color problems have been going on for nearly five years and they keep happening.  Consumers are getting stuck with stuff they don’t like (although, in fairness, I believe there are many buyers who are ambivalent to the color mistakes).  The dealers are getting stuck with the rest or are spending their own money to try to fix the mistakes (e.g., it was a dealer who first started paying to repaint the Js). Yeah, Lionel has remade a shell or two, but otherwise the burden has not been theirs.

I honestly believe Lionel knows the issue and the frustration it causes for many of their loyal and longtime buyers. They either simply don’t care or they are not capable of fixing it, but they are not unaware.

I’ve long since thought that for many of us, if not most of us, fidelity to previous model releases is more important than fidelity to the prototype.  When I order something based on a catalog illustration, my assumption is that it will be like the one that came out eight years ago that I missed on - or loved and want another one - or whatever.  This should actually make life easier for manufacturers since they really just need to be good at doing what they’ve already done, not something new.  I think that’s the part that’s the most maddening about all of this: look again at Gary’s list (paint mistakes, horrible new couplers, etc) - these are all self-inflicted fumbles of things that have been made at an excellent level before.  It’s not a case of trying something new and failing, it’s suddenly forgetting how to do what you’ve done extremely well for a longtime.  

I think the only real fix on the consumer level is to decide you have enough stuff.  We can’t control anything else anyway.

Last edited by Rider Sandman

I passed on this run of Ten Wheelers but was able to pick up one from the previous run once the news broke. The next thing on my want list is the Camelbacks but I have no idea what the paint will look like on those. The catalog images actually show the dreaded light color for the smokeboxes. I don't know what was prototypical but I'm just used to the graphite by now and much favor it.



I think the only real fix on the consumer level is to decide you have enough stuff.  We can’t control anything else anyway.

Indeed.

While I still do buy things and have a few things on my "need/want" list, if I never got another locomotive it wouldn't be the end of the world.  I have plenty to keep me busy and interested.  I think what Lionel should realize is that there are seemingly less and less young folks getting into the hobby, let alone O scale.  Sure people get into O all the time, but are there enough to replace those that are leaving the hobby?  In order for me to continue to spend that kind of money on locomotives, it's got to be correct and not be broken when I get it.

@rplst8 posted:

Indeed.

While I still do buy things and have a few things on my "need/want" list, if I never got another locomotive it wouldn't be the end of the world.  I have plenty to keep me busy and interested.  I think what Lionel should realize is that there are seemingly less and less young folks getting into the hobby, let alone O scale.  Sure people get into O all the time, but are there enough to replace those that are leaving the hobby?  In order for me to continue to spend that kind of money on locomotives, it's got to be correct and not be broken when I get it.

Unfortunately for me, I fall into the category of "young folks getting into the hobby". Most of the engines that I am interested in were made between 5-10 years ago when I was too young (still in school/ had no expendable income) to buy. These (Legacy PRR K4, M1a, Visionline GG1, the 2012 catalog N&W J) are extremely hard to find on the second hand market so it seems like the only way for me to get my hands on them is for Lionel to re-issue them.

@Prr7688 posted:

My thoughts exactly. I have a few items that I am interested in ordering if they are in upcoming catalogs, but I do not want to bet on the "Quality Control aspects" with my wallet.

I really wanted to get one of the latest N&W J's (my local dealer always orders extra) until I saw the bright orange paint.

The PRR H10's looked HORRIBLE or I would have bought one. From the silver smokebox to the yellow whistle, bell, and pop valves (they should be gold). The tender deck and cab roof were also not the (IMO) the correct shade of red. I know there's an entire thread on this alone... but I think all colors on the PRR engines should match the colors currently found on the engines at RRMPA as they are (truly) the experts.

Do what I did with the H10. I bought a brand new never used Weaver version online, then sent it to @Bruk to convert to Legacy with swinging bell and whistle steam. His work is incredible, and it looks far better than Lionel's version. Cost a little more in the end, but worth every penny.

Matt

@Prr7688 posted:

Unfortunately for me, I fall into the category of "young folks getting into the hobby". Most of the engines that I am interested in were made between 5-10 years ago when I was too young (still in school/ had no expendable income) to buy. These (Legacy PRR K4, M1a, Visionline GG1, the 2012 catalog N&W J) are extremely hard to find on the second hand market so it seems like the only way for me to get my hands on them is for Lionel to re-issue them.

I'm somewhat in the same boat.

I started into O around 2002-2003 after college but my collection was limited to just a Williams New Haven Alco PA ABA set and some streamliners.  I didn't start expanding my collection until 2010 or so, but it was mostly just a piece of rolling stock here or there.  I had gotten an MTH SD70Ace and a cheap RailKing set, both with ProtoSound 2.0 by then as well.

Around 2017 I really started aggressively buying locomotives I wanted to collect once I had saved up and established myself a little more.  There are still things I really want that haven't been made in awhile and most were done before Legacy.

My advice is to learn to repair them and buy broken ones.  As long as the drivetrain is intact, the electronics are replaceable.  That or find older ones that others can upgrade for you.

Last edited by rplst8

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