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@Trainbros89 posted:

@kanawha do you know of any good references for the GW??

For the heavyweight era, the C&O Historical Society book, The George Washington, The Most Wonderful Train In The World 1932-1950. Expensive book at $75 but it has more info on the GW in one place than I've ever seen. The "Most Wonderful Train In The World" is just advertising hyperbole from the 1930's. Nice train, but most wonderful is a big stretch.

Ken

@kanawha posted:

For the heavyweight era, the C&O Historical Society book, The George Washington, The Most Wonderful Train In The World 1932-1950. Expensive book at $75 but it has more info on the GW in one place than I've ever seen. The "Most Wonderful Train In The World" is just advertising hyperbole from the 1930's. Nice train, but most wonderful is a big stretch.

Ken

Thank you good sir! I’ll be at the meeting Saturday

@GG1 4877 posted:

Thanks!   That does help.  The set doesn't appear too far off from the plastic tooled GGD cars.  Not sure what Pullman Standard floor plans the sleepers are based on for the George Washington, but your link certainly gives a great starting point.

The HO set shown in the brasstrains.com link is the most accurate heavyweight GW consist produced in any scale to date. I can quibble with some of the lettering but the cars themselves are great. As far as adapting GGD cars or any other manufacturer's cars for the consist:

  • Full RPO - Atlas 60 ft RPO is perfect
  • Combine - GGD is closest but I believe it has too many windows and the baggage door is too wide
  • Coach - Needs to have non-paired windows. GGD coach has paired windows. Also needs to be lettered Imperial Salon (more advertising hyperbole). Closest is the old K-Line coach but its 18" long where it needs to be 20" long.
  • Diner - The GGD diner is close. Need eliminate the small window on the aisle side of the car. Windows for the kitchen are wrong. Also the GW diner does not have an access door for the kitchen.
  • Sleepers - the GGD sleepers are fine. Just need the correct car name. I have lettered a couple of my GGD sleepers for the GW.
  • Observation - This is the toughest car to replicate. The GW car is a Pullman Plan 4020 or 4024 8 section, buffet, lounge, observation. The observation part is also a stretch as it had a fake 14" wide observation platform, not an observation platform that was actually usable. The only company that has ever made an O scale version was American Standard back in the late 80's and its a kit. I have one and am struggling to put it together. The GGD observation car isn't even close.


A 1950's lightweight version of the GW would consist of:

  • RPO - Again the heavyweight Atlas 60 ft RPO
  • Coaches - Pullman Standard 52 seat coach with fluting below the windows only. These same cars are part of the GGD proposed Rio Grande Prospector set.
  • Diner - The GGD heavyweight diner. The C&O didn't use lightweight diners until they converted some cars to diners in the early 60's.
  • Sleepers - P-S 10-6 sleeper with fluting below the windows only. This car is part of the GGD B&O Capitol Limited set.
  • Flat end observation - P-S 5 double bedroom/lounge/observation. This car is also part of the GGD B&O Capitol Limited set.

I've built a number of the lightweight cars from kits. I can post pictures later if any one is interested. This already has been more information than most OGR readers would care about.

Ken

@kanawha posted:

The HO set shown in the brasstrains.com link is the most accurate heavyweight GW consist produced in any scale to date. I can quibble with some of the lettering but the cars themselves are great. As far as adapting GGD cars or any other manufacturer's cars for the consist:

  • Full RPO - Atlas 60 ft RPO is perfect
  • Combine - GGD is closest but I believe it has too many windows and the baggage door is too wide
  • Coach - Needs to have non-paired windows. GGD coach has paired windows. Also needs to be lettered Imperial Salon (more advertising hyperbole). Closest is the old K-Line coach but its 18" long where it needs to be 20" long.
  • Diner - The GGD diner is close. Need eliminate the small window on the aisle side of the car. Windows for the kitchen are wrong. Also the GW diner does not have an access door for the kitchen.
  • Sleepers - the GGD sleepers are fine. Just need the correct car name. I have lettered a couple of my GGD sleepers for the GW.
  • Observation - This is the toughest car to replicate. The GW car is a Pullman Plan 4020 or 4024 8 section, buffet, lounge, observation. The observation part is also a stretch as it had a fake 14" wide observation platform, not an observation platform that was actually usable. The only company that has ever made an O scale version was American Standard back in the late 80's and its a kit. I have one and am struggling to put it together. The GGD observation car isn't even close.


A 1950's lightweight version of the GW would consist of:

  • RPO - Again the heavyweight Atlas 60 ft RPO
  • Coaches - Pullman Standard 52 seat coach with fluting below the windows only. These same cars are part of the GGD proposed Rio Grande Prospector set.
  • Diner - The GGD heavyweight diner. The C&O didn't use lightweight diners until they converted some cars to diners in the early 60's.
  • Sleepers - P-S 10-6 sleeper with fluting below the windows only. This car is part of the GGD B&O Capitol Limited set.
  • Flat end observation - P-S 5 double bedroom/lounge/observation. This car is also part of the GGD B&O Capitol Limited set.

I've built a number of the lightweight cars from kits. I can post pictures later if any one is interested. This already has been more information than most OGR readers would care about.

Ken

Thank you Ken! I think that GGD has the opportunity to make this awesome set, or honestly... just single cars. I assume the set would be easier/make more sense

@Trainbros89 posted:

Thank you Ken! I think that GGD has the opportunity to make this awesome set, or honestly... just single cars. I assume the set would be easier/make more sense

To do the set accurately in the numbers that it would likely sell would make it a brass project.  If there was willingness to compromise the existing plastic tooling could make a very close replica of the train, but admittedly it would not be completely accurate.  For me personally, I really like the GGD plastic tooling even if many of the roads I have cars in aren't completely accurate.  Outside of Walther's kits or higher end brass, you just can't find a decent 20" heavyweight outside of the GGD plastic ones.  I have these cars now in PRR, C&O, CP, CBQ, UP, B&O, Erie, Lackawanna, NH, Pullman, NYC, and a few others I'm probably forgetting, but for the quality of the car I enjoy them regardless.  I also find reworking and repainting plastic cars a little easier than aluminum or brass. 

On the streamlined side, a PS set in aluminum would probably make more sense as the tooling is substantially cheaper.  The 1950's PS coaches and 10-6s are pretty easy to do compared to a heavyweight car with specific window and rivet patterns.  It's the same issue I have found in trying to model CNJ passenger cars accurately.  Finding non-paired windows is quite the challenge in not just O scale, but in any scale.     

@GG1 4877 posted:

To do the set accurately in the numbers that it would likely sell would make it a brass project.  If there was willingness to compromise the existing plastic tooling could make a very close replica of the train, but admittedly it would not be completely accurate.  For me personally, I really like the GGD plastic tooling even if many of the roads I have cars in aren't completely accurate.  Outside of Walther's kits or higher end brass, you just can't find a decent 20" heavyweight outside of the GGD plastic ones.  I have these cars now in PRR, C&O, CP, CBQ, UP, B&O, Erie, Lackawanna, NH, Pullman, NYC, and a few others I'm probably forgetting, but for the quality of the car I enjoy them regardless.  I also find reworking and repainting plastic cars a little easier than aluminum or brass.

On the streamlined side, a PS set in aluminum would probably make more sense as the tooling is substantially cheaper.  The 1950's PS coaches and 10-6s are pretty easy to do compared to a heavyweight car with specific window and rivet patterns.  It's the same issue I have found in trying to model CNJ passenger cars accurately.  Finding non-paired windows is quite the challenge in not just O scale, but in any scale.     

I would be a buyer, regardless of how they were made/offered !

This is the very first Lionel engine I was finally able to afford way back in early 1977 when I was financially well off enough to get back into toy and model trains.  This die cast C&O 4-4-2 Atlantic steam locomotive cost me the princely sum of $43.33 from the long gone Bill’s Train Shop located on Black Horse Pike in Turnersville, New Jersey.  Amazingly, the incredibly realistic Mighty Sound of Steam and electronic whistle still work.IMG_0279

Attachments

Images (1)
  • IMG_0279
Last edited by OKHIKER
@GG1 4877 posted:

On the streamlined side, a PS set in aluminum would probably make more sense as the tooling is substantially cheaper.  The 1950's PS coaches and 10-6s are pretty easy to do compared to a heavyweight car with specific window and rivet patterns.

Since no manufacturer makes the streamlined C&O Pullman-Standard cars in a scale length, I've put together a reasonable consist of  actual lightweight and heavyweight cars to make a representative C&O train.

This is a stock Atlas RPO:

RPO

Modified a Lionel baggage car changed into a standard C&O Express car. I had Union Station Products cut the modernized doors for me. I have three of these as they were very common on most C&O passenger trains.

Express

American Lightweight Car Co. combine kit. The C&O only had one of these and sold it in the mid 50's.

Combine

American Lightweight Car Co. 52 seat coach with Union Station Products car sides. The USP car sides have very detailed skirting.

Coach

GGD diner representing a standard C&O diner of the 1950's. Closed in the window on the far left making this side of the car fairly accurate.

Diner

American Lightweight Car Co. 10-6 sleeper kit. Used the ALW car sides so no skirting between the trucks.

10-6

American Lightweight Car Co. 11 Double Bedroom sleeper kit.

11 DBR

ALW kit with USP car sides making a 5 Double Bedroom/Buffet/Lounge Observation car. These were converted to Diner/Dormitory cars in the early 60's and the old heavyweight diners retired.

Observation

The kits take a long time and a lot of patience to build. I have another 11 DBR kit that has progressed to being primed. Have to wait until the weather warms up for the final paint job.

The most common lightweight cars on the C&O were the coaches and 10-6 sleepers and my consist needs another of each. I have one of the 10-6 sleepers from the GGD B&O Capitol Limited set on order that I'm going to repaint to C&O. I'll probably order a coach from the Prospector set to repaint once that set gets closer to production.

Ken

Attachments

Images (9)
  • RPO
  • Express
  • Coach
  • Diner
  • 10-6
  • 11 DBR
  • 11 DBR
  • Observation
  • Combine
@kanawha posted:

Since no manufacturer makes the streamlined C&O Pullman-Standard cars in a scale length, I've put together a reasonable consist of  actual lightweight and heavyweight cars to make a representative C&O train.

This is a stock Atlas RPO:

RPO

Modified a Lionel baggage car changed into a standard C&O Express car. I had Union Station Products cut the modernized doors for me. I have three of these as they were very common on most C&O passenger trains.

Express

American Lightweight Car Co. combine kit. The C&O only had one of these and sold it in the mid 50's.

Combine

American Lightweight Car Co. 52 seat coach with Union Station Products car sides. The USP car sides have very detailed skirting.

Coach

GGD diner representing a standard C&O diner of the 1950's. Closed in the window on the far left making this side of the car fairly accurate.

Diner

American Lightweight Car Co. 10-6 sleeper kit. Used the ALW car sides so no skirting between the trucks.

10-6

American Lightweight Car Co. 11 Double Bedroom sleeper kit.

11 DBR

ALW kit with USP car sides making a 5 Double Bedroom/Buffet/Lounge Observation car. These were converted to Diner/Dormitory cars in the early 60's and the old heavyweight diners retired.

Observation

The kits take a long time and a lot of patience to build. I have another 11 DBR kit that has progressed to being primed. Have to wait until the weather warms up for the final paint job.

The most common lightweight cars on the C&O were the coaches and 10-6 sleepers and my consist needs another of each. I have one of the 10-6 sleepers from the GGD B&O Capitol Limited set on order that I'm going to repaint to C&O. I'll probably order a coach from the Prospector set to repaint once that set gets closer to production.

Ken

I love them all

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