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In building a layout, I am planning a layout that will consist of 4 4x8 plywood sections. Section 1 and 2 will have 2 ovals running. Section 3 will have a bottom and upper level with reversing loops on both levels. Section 4 will be the train yard. My question will I need multiple Lion Chief power packs for each section? Not currently using a transformer but that could be an option.

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I'll second the use of a transformer/transformers.  It's not generally a good idea to have 2 or more power supplies or transformers connected to the same power block, or loop of track.   I tend to recommend lionel's 180Watt powerhouse "bricks" for constant power, though any non-starter-set transformers will probably work out just fine.  

As for how many transformers you need, that depends what you plan on running.  It is probably best to use a separate 10 amp supply for each loop if you're going to be running postwar engines, 'lash-ups', or lots of lighted cars, however if you are running only one Lionchief engine per loop you can probably get by with a single 180watt powerhouse, or a post war KW or ZW, at least to start.  if you wire each loop's feed to a terminal block near your transformer/s you can easily move a power block to a second transformer later as your power needs increase.  

On your question of where to put power drops, it seems to be common practice to use a drop about every 10-12 track joints.  

As a side note, if you have any intention of using the DCS TIU to control PS2/3 products in the future, you may want to look into the 'star wiring' method from the beginning.  If you're running only LionChief, or even TMCC/Legacy products, you're ok using pretty much whatever wiring method you prefer.  

JGL

IMO, forget about the 72 watt power pack.  The PH180 will run those four LC/LC+ trains and not break a sweat.  With any additional load, 72 watts is not enough power.  My LC+ Camelback running smoke and pulling 18 freight cars and a caboose is pulling close to an amp and a half.  Times four and you're well over the capacity of the 72 watt supply, but nowhere close to the 180 watts from the PowerHouse.  There's no reason to cut yourself short on the track power.

What happens if you toss in a few lighted passenger cars?  Oops!

Last edited by gunrunnerjohn
tlcottone posted:

John thanks. The plan is to have 4 LC/LC+ on the layout. I am assuming that the wiring then would follow the same 10-12 track joints?

 

Yes, that is pretty much standard for whatever sort of power you are using.  

tlcottone posted:

Richard curious about the 72 watt power pack. Will it be enough to run 4 LC/LC+ engined?

I'll agree with GRJ here. you're gonna be better off starting with the PH180, it will be more than enough power for your needs.  

As a side note, the power packs supply DC power where as other Lionel transformers supply AC power.  LionChief will run correctly on both, but another plus for getting off the power packs is that you will be capable of running TMCC/Legacy if you decide to install one of those systems later.  if you stick with the power pack now, you would have to replace them later to run the other control systems.  

JGL

GRJ and JGL thanks so much. I was leaning that direction but just needed the confirmation. With the amount of switches I have, I am sure they would drain power off the brick as well. 2 of my trains are passenger trains with lighted cars, Polar Express and Metro North M7. The other 2 future ones would be freight with LC+ for engines.

Congratulations “TLCOTTONE” • On an excellent track plan.

You have a lot of fine advice from the members on your question. Only thing I could help you with is to tell you my story of what worked for myself, back in the day, 1983. When I started my first Lionel Layout.

I did the local train shows in AnnArbor & Lansing Michigan and hooked up with two local hobby shops. I found these train guys that owned these shops to be very helpful.

So my suggestion would be to find a local hobby shop that you like and can trust. If you have not purchased all this track for your design, this shop will turn into your best source for face to face problem solving. As you build you model train empire.

After you get under way, try to establish a relationships with some on line train shops, there is a lot in the OGR Ad Banner. I still manage my layout this way today, face to face with a local hobby shop, the kind of place when I walk in the door they say; “Hello Gary” / Even the on line train shops, have the same approach and can answer all your questions as you build your model train empire.

Good Luck, Gary and…..

DETROIT AND MACKINAC RAILWAY Cheers from PASSENGER CAR v6

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  • DETROIT AND MACKINAC RAILWAY Cheers from PASSENGER CAR v6

Thank you to all who posted. Your suggestions are well taken and appreciated. Trainroom Gary, there is a local model train club that has a storefront in the mall with their layouts displayed and available for users to test equipment out. They feature ALL Gauges and I have talked with them before (how I got interested in the first place). My initial purchase into the hobby was through Trainworld. They had some great prices and the service was excellent. Also being a former NYer now living in South Carolina, I was quite familiar with their store on Long Island. I will keep everyone updated on progress as I begin to build the layout. I have a 4x4 board which was the initial board for a simple loop (under the tree setup). I will be putting legs on it this week and adding my first 4x8 to the project. So the first part will be a larger loop that is 4x12. I will later be adding another 4x4 to the opposite end making the loop larger at 4x16. The 2 other 4x8 will be added down the road. I will be posting pictures as I build it up. Thanks again everyone.

Tom

Last edited by tlcottone

Hi Tom,

I would have emailed you offline, but you have none listed in your profile.

I noticed that the right-leg of the layout for future expansion is 60"wide. Also, the O36 loop with a 10" won't fit on 48" on the main table. Use a 5" instead.

Here is the SCARM file with your future full table complete baseboard. Are you using AnyRail?

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  • Final layout 5 main table
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Last edited by Moonman

Moonman thanks for the input. 1 of the things I am considering is possibly adding a "shelf" to the layout to accommodate the 10" in the O36 loops. The right leg is planned to add a 1 foot shelf to the 4x8 so Section 3 is actually a 60x92 inch. I am also planning another 12 inch shelf between the legs for transformers, switch machines etc.

Tom,

ok, didn't get the where the 60" came from. It may be easier to cut the sheets to 60" x 48" instead of a splice-I know, more sheets, but no aggravation with seams and supports.  You may need to splice building in stages. Whichever works for you.

Transformer shelf is ok, but you may want to operate from an end to see the whole layout without turning left or right.

Just putting out some thoughts.

TLCotonne,

   I look at this differently, 1st Congrats on the fine Layout Engineering, IMO now forget about the Modern Bricks, unless you can pick up the180 with it's fine quick breaker, real cheaply, and totally forget about the small power packs.  IMO you should pick up a couple old restored 275 Lionel ZW Transformers, from Jim Lawson one of the OGR members who restores them, even with just one ZW you get 4 Channels to operate different sections of your layout independently, with your nice layout I would pick up 2 ZW's.   I own a few of Jim's Restored ZW's and a couple KW's also, Jim does a fantastic job with the upgrades and they work better than brand spanking new.  I put 10 amp Scott type resettable breakers between the old restored Transformers and either the DCS TIU or the Track, depending on how you are running.  Someday you will want to add a 2nd level to your layout, pick up the right Power Supplies/ Transformers now, you will not be sorry in the long run, maybe later even a Z4K Transformer, as you expand, for now however 2 restored ZW's would run your layout perfectly.

PCRR/Dave

 

Last edited by Pine Creek Railroad

Dave,

I can agree that there is (mostly) nothing wrong with using post war transformers if you are looking for a possibly more affordable solution, and one that would allow easy use of convention equipment to get started with.  

I think most folks didn't get too far into talking about traditional transformers, however, because the original post talked of running ONLY Lionchief/Plus engines.  In addition it is simpler for most to say "I recommend Using a PH 180" than to get into more detailed options with older transformers and the additional circuit breakers and TVS diodes that should be used with them when running products with modern electronics.  I've had no problems to date connecting a ZW or KW directly to the track to operate LionChief products, but I, and I think many others here, would caution against doing so when making suggestions for other people.   

I would recommend to TLCOTTONE that you do look into doing what you can from the start to wire your layout to be as compatible with MTH's DCS as you can, as such a wiring scheme will work just fine for conventional, LionChief/+, TMCC, and Legacy if you should ever like to run any of those in the future.  Whereas, having to rewire if you want to install and get reliable performance from DCS at a later date would be a pain.  

JGL

Trainlover160 posted:

Guys,

I am a little confused here, as When I purchased my Lionchief Subway Set, it came with a little wall transformer. Meaning it was a transformer with aplug on the back that goes directly into the wall. I did not think we could use a cw80 or any other source of power with it. Do I ot have all the facts?

JoeG

LionChief and LionChief Plus will run on AC or DC power.  the "transformer" LoinChief sets come with is an 18 Volt DC switching power supply, mot likely because these are very economical for Lionel to use.  LionChief and Plus engines will run perfectly fine on AC power as well.  you can use them  with that CW80, any other Lionel transformer, or on any TMCC/DCS/Legacy layout.  

Lionchief/plus engines will also run on less than 18 volts (down to about the 10-12 range) so if you use the variable voltage you can have some control of a conventional engine on the same track. I know one former forum member had much success with this.  

JGL

My LionChief Mikado works well on voltages much lower than the prescribed 16-18 volts (possibly 10-12 volts, but without a meter, I can't be sure of the exact voltage), but the operation of the coupler becomes unreliable below about 13-14 volts. It is a great system that I wish also included headlight on/off control instead of the silly crew chatter.

Bill in FtL

ok now I am concerned. I hooked  up an 18v power supply  when it was new, and it did not work when I tried to operate it with the remote provided. However, I do not think I tries a different set of batteries. I just figured i needed to read up more on Lionechief and never got back to it. What should I do if I put in new batteries and the remote does not work? Is there an ac/dc switch under the power unit?  Please excuse my ignorance regarding this set, as it is all new to me.

 

JoeG

Gentlemen,

   As John recommends, use the modern breaker bank if you are going to use the ZW or KW Transformer to run your new LC RTR trains sets, I have a 10 Amps on the line now, will probably drop that down to 5 shortly.  I set the new Hallmark/Lionel Santa Express with added cars at 15 Amps on my old ZW, it runs perfectly.  

PCRR/DaveDSCN1633

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I recently decided to take it out of of the box and try it again. New Batteries in remote, and hooked up to my CW80, and it worked perfectly. I could see where these sets would easily get the first timers started in the hobby. My only concern is the cost of some of the lioncheif item verses the quality of sound. However, I like my set. If I had to change anything with would lower the engine volume slightly in order to hear the horn and announcements a little better.

 

Joeg

Last edited by Trainlover160

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