LionChief/LionChief + Bluetooth App

Hi Matt:

You have this question in the LionChief / LionChief Plus category and RC Systems.  So I will answer your question as related to LionChief and or LionChief Plus, Radio Signals, 2.4GHz and Bluetooth® Signals. I have no leads at this time about the smartphone or iPhones, I am still looking into this, but Bluetooth is on the new Lionel Universal Remote.

From:

Lionel LionChief™ Universal Remote Remote Owner’s Manual

Page 2.

“Congratulations on the purchase of your LionChief Universal Remote! This remote is designed to allow up to 3 separate LionChief and/or LionChief Plus locomotives under one remote. This Universal Remote is equipped with both RF as well as Bluetooth®, which makes it compatible with most all existing LionChief and LionChief Plus locomotives released up to 2016 as well as all LionChief and LionChief Plus locomotives released in 2017 and beyond!.”

The Bluetooth® word mark and logos are register trademarks owned by Bluetooth SIG, Inc. and use of such makes by Lionel is under license.

This new Universal Remote is sending out a RF radio signal at 2.4 GHz, following all FCC Rules.  It is also Bluetooth™ ready, according to the FCC rules and Industry Canada License.

Bluetooth is one more way to control LionChief and LionChief Plus locomotive.

This is an e-mail from Katie at Lionel Technical Support. Jan. 12, 2017

To: Gary

Below is a list of LionChief locomotives that are not currently compatible with the Universal Remote.

6-30162 Thomas Xmas Set

6-30183 Lionel 2-4-2 Remote Scout Steam Set

6-30190 Thomas and Friends Remote Set

6-30205 2-4-2 Remote Xmas Set

6-30206 Alien Invasion Remote RS-3 Set

6-30207 Santa Fe RS-3 Remote Scout Freight Set

6-30214 Peanuts Halloween 2-4-2 Remote Set

6-30218 The Polar Express Remote Set 

6-30221 Diesel Set (Separated sales 6-18775)

6-30222 Percy Set

6-30223 James Set

6-30228 0-8-0 Chattanooga Set 

6-30233 Pennsylvania Flyer Remote Set 

6-81031 Lionel Junction Dinosaur Diesel Remote Set

6-81101 Remote Polar with 10th Ann Logo

6-81259 PRR 0-8-0 Remote Broadway Limited

6-81262 Union Pacific Flyer Remote (0-8-0)

6-81263 Jersey Remote RS3 Passenger Train

6-81286 Little Steam Remote Set

6-81287 Union Pacific Steam Remote Freight Set

6-81288 Lionel Junction Pet Shop Diesel Remote Set

6-81331 Iron Arry

6-81332 Iron Bert

6-81480 John Deer Remote Set

6-82151 Bass Pro Shop 2-4-2 LionChief Scout RTR Set

6-82972 Lionel Junction Pennsylvania Diesel Remote Set (Loco #9431)

6-83266 Lionel Junction Santa Fe Steam Remote Set

6-83504 Birthday Thomas the Tank Engine

 Thank you,

 From Katie

Customer Service Representative

6000 Victory Lane | Concord, NC 28027

800-454-6635 ext 2 (o) | LionelSupport.com (web)

This is the link to contact Lionel; Katie at “Lionel Talk to Us.”

https://www.lionelsupport.com/ContactUs/

Also take a look at this OGR Thread from Notch 6 #83 “Lionel moving into Bluetooth Technology.”

https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/t...lue-tooth-technology

                                                                                                     Bluetooth®

Controls all LionChief Plus®  -  Locomotives.

Hope this helps; Gary

Haven't heard anything at this point, but don't really expect that o-gauge LionChief engines will allow direct BlueTooth control in the foreseeable future.  The Universal remote does open the door to be used as a bridge between LionChief's radios and Bluetooth, as it contains both radios and can be reprogramed over BlueTooth to do anything one could want them to do.  That said, At this time, I would expect it more likely that a first version app for the Universal remote would simply allow someone to chose engines that are not currently supported by the remote from a list and program them into the Universal remote.  I don't see it being particularly difficult to add the bridging ability, but it seems to me there would be a more profit to be made by offering a separate product for that function, even if the current remote could do it.  

JGL

Hi Matt:  Below is an image of the Lionel • LionChief -  2017 Bluetooth APP.  This image is from Notch 6 / Show, January 23, 2017. / Lionel has not yet posted the 2017 Ready to Run Set Catalog, as of 6:00 PM EST

Hope this helps: Gary

While that helps my real question is when is the release date? 

No mention of the release date of the Bluetooth app for LionChief locos in the 2017 set catalog.  Just that it was coming.  No mention of whether LionChief+ locos will also have the Bluetooth receiver.  Would hope so and expect so, but no word.

I would hope so too, we'll just wait and see.

Why would they release an app, before they release a Bluetooth engine that can be controlled by it? None of the engines made to date have Bluetooth. I also highly doubt they built 'bridge' technology (Bluetooth to 2.4Ghz) into the Universal Remote at that price. 

George S posted:

Why would they release an app, before they release a Bluetooth engine that can be controlled by it? None of the engines made to date have Bluetooth. I also highly doubt they built 'bridge' technology (Bluetooth to 2.4Ghz) into the Universal Remote at that price. 

The HO polar express is Bluetooth ready. 

MartyE posted:

George S posted:

Why would they release an app, before they release a Bluetooth engine that can be controlled by it? None of the engines made to date have Bluetooth. I also highly doubt they built 'bridge' technology (Bluetooth to 2.4Ghz) into the Universal Remote at that price. 

The HO polar express is Bluetooth ready. 

That's a good point. I forgot about that one, because I am not into HO. However, doubt they would issue an app for one train.

My point is that, if there really is an app (I have not seen an official announcement) it will likely come out at the time they release multiple Bluetooth engines and sets or afterward. Also, don't expect it to run any non-Bluetooth trains they have already released.

However, maybe JGL could build us a bridge? If someone built a $175 Bluetooth to 2.4Ghz bridge that worked with this app, would people buy it?

"

However, maybe JGL could build us a bridge? If someone built a $175 Bluetooth to 2.4Ghz bridge that worked with this app, would people buy it?"

Who knows?  But I wonder if the simplest and least expensive approach might be for Lionel to build Bluetooth ± LionChief into a next generation Legacy system so folks can control their friends and childrens' LC/Bluetooth locos with their Legacy system.

In any case, both MTH and Lionel have moved in the direction of controlling trains using smart phones and tablets.  The difference in approach is that the MTH approach currently requires the purchase of DCS and wi-fi, a close to $500 investment.  It appears Lionel is going to make a cheaper option available in sets, and presumably LC+,  through direct Bluetooth communications which will not require the purchase of their Legacy system/wi-fi device.

Landsteiner posted:

"

However, maybe JGL could build us a bridge? If someone built a $175 Bluetooth to 2.4Ghz bridge that worked with this app, would people buy it?"

Who knows?  But I wonder if the simplest and least expensive approach might be for Lionel to build Bluetooth ± LionChief into a next generation Legacy system so folks can control their friends and childrens' LC/Bluetooth locos with their Legacy system.

 

In any case, both MTH and Lionel have moved in the direction of controlling trains using smart phones and tablets.  The difference in approach is that the MTH approach currently requires the purchase of DCS and wi-fi, a close to $500 investment.  It appears Lionel is going to make a cheaper option available in sets, and presumably LC+,  through direct Bluetooth communications which will not require the purchase of their Legacy system/wi-fi device.

Cost was what I was getting at with my question. Direct Bluetooth control of engines seems to be a low cost option to your point. Lionel and Bachmann are embracing this.  However, Lionel came late to the game after making hundreds of 2.4Ghz engines. Building it into Legacy is an option, but now the cost is in the range of your point regarding MTH. (The Legacy system is $280 and the Legacy WiFi is $165, so $445 plus cables, and I make be missing some components.)

Landsteiner posted:

The difference in approach is that the MTH approach currently requires the purchase of DCS and wi-fi, a close to $500 investment.  

Actually, DCS WiFi would cost $335, $170 for just the TIU without remote and $165 for the WiFi unit. Still, this only addresses MTH engines.

If someone built a $175 Bluetooth to 2.4Ghz bridge that worked with this app, would people buy it?

I have to agree, even if the bridge only cost $75. What is an app going to do that the $50 LC universal remote won't do. If you do build app & bridge device, it would be limited to the capabilities of the LC Universal remote.

The whole idea behind LionCheif remotes was to keep things simple. Apps & Bluetooth pairing procedures starts to complicate things.

If the engines have Bluetooth built in already, Skip the LC universal remote and pair the engine with a smart phone and use an app to control it. Wait a minute, didn't blue-rail already build this?

Beings that Bluetooth operates in the same 2.4 GHz ISM band it would only seem natural to include Bluetooth for future expansion as it is pretty cheap to add if you are already installing a 2.4 GHz radio. 

It is possible Lionel doesn't know exactly how they will use Bluetooth yet but knows that it opens the door to great possibilities.

H1000

"Building it into Legacy is an option, but now the cost is in the range of your point regarding MTH. (The Legacy system is $280 and the Legacy WiFi is $165, so $445 plus cables, and I make be missing some components.)"

The only reason for Lionel to do this is to please Legacy users who want to be able to control most Lionel products using their Legacy system.  Those starting out without Legacy will have command control simply by using their LionChief remote, which comes with the loco/set, or using the Bluetooth app.   People who don't want or need the features of Legacy need not spring for the Legacy remote/base and wi-fi unit.  I'm guessing they will eventually deal with this issue, but I suspect it is a very low priority.  The LC and LC+ lines are not presently directed at the serious hobbyist who already has Legacy. 

Would not surprise me if at some point in the future all Lionel locos , including Legacy,  have the Bluetooth receiver built in, since the additional hardware costs are likely quite modest,  and the firmware is sunk costs, as it already has been developed for use with LC/LC+.

I don't really see Lionel adding Lionchief control into the Legacy system. The Lionchief engines already run on a Legacy layout just not with a Legacy remote or app. As H1000 said, they are trying to keep things simple with the Lionchief line.

George S posted:

 However, Lionel came late to the game after making hundreds of 2.4Ghz engines.

Just to clarify, 2.4 GHz is from the Legacy remote to the base; it's 455 KHz from the base to the engines.

Dave

Dtrainmaster posted:

George S posted:

 However, Lionel came late to the game after making hundreds of 2.4Ghz engines.

Just to clarify, 2.4 GHz is from the Legacy remote to the base; it's 455 KHz from the base to the engines.

Dave

I was talking about Lionchief engines; no base there.

However, Lionel came late to the game after making hundreds of 2.4Ghz engines.

Not to mention the dozens of 27Mhz engines that have no chance for any of the newer control methods.

H1000

H1000 posted:

However, Lionel came late to the game after making hundreds of 2.4Ghz engines.

Not to mention the dozens of 27Mhz engines that have no chance for any of the newer control methods.

H1000

The BlueRail board you mentioned is $70. It only supports a 2 Amp motor, and I haven't checked whether it would work for sure, but that might be an option for folks to upgrade those old engines.