Lionchief+/Legacy

Lionchief or LC+ does NOT talk to Legacy to do any switches, blocks, etc.  Legacy does NOT control LC or LC+.  Using their discrete systems they can co-exist.

The latest Legacy locomotives do have Bluetooth control so you may use your LC Universal remote (the orange one) or the LC Bluetooth App to run them.  The Legacy remote will also run those Legacy engines.

MartyE posted:

Lionchief or LC+ does NOT talk to Legacy to do any switches, blocks, etc.  Legacy does NOT control LC or LC+.  Using their discrete systems they can co-exist.

The latest Legacy locomotives do have Bluetooth control so you may use your LC Universal remote (the orange one) or the LC Bluetooth App to run them.  The Legacy remote will also run those Legacy engines.

Are you saying the new Legacy engines with Bluetooth can be operated by the LC orange universal remote ?  I was not aware of that - does that mean the remote is equipped with Bluetooth control ?

Richie C. posted:

Are you saying the new Legacy engines with Bluetooth can be operated by the LC orange universal remote ?  I was not aware of that - does that mean the remote is equipped with Bluetooth control ?

Yes the UR has Bluetooth.  That is how you update the universal remote. I assume they use that to control the Bluetooth Legacy engines but don't know that 100% but it seems logical.

What is the UR (Universal Remote?)

From the Lionel Store Website regarding the new engine

Features:

What makes this a "Universal Remote"?  It only seems to control Locomotives. And only Three to boot.

So I go out and spend $1900 for this Niagara Locomotive and I also am buying "Bluetooth" communication that I will never use.  Does not Lionel need to purchase a Bluetooth License for each Locomotive?  Why is Lionel adding a function that is useless to us that have heavily invested in their Legacy Control System?  $300 for the command base and remote and on average $100 per Legacy Box?  Man, I don't understand this marketing logic.

Loose-Caboose posted:

What makes this a "Universal Remote"?  It only seems to control Locomotives. And only Three to boot.

in lionels mind that is what makes it universal....

"Why is Lionel adding a function that is useless to us that have heavily invested in their Legacy Control System?  $300 for the command base and remote and on average $100 per Legacy Box?  Man, I don't understand this marketing logic."

I'm guessing the Bluetooth license costs all of about $1.00 per loco.  It's not primarily designed for those already using the Legacy system.  Lionel is working on a possible technical solution for having Legacy talking to Lionchief/Bluetooth. 

Lionchief started out as something simply to keep costs down for starter sets and provide a remote and limited command control for these customers.  It became so popular that Lionchief+ was introduced to have conventional compatibility.  LC+ was so popular that a need for a system that could operate all new locos (Bluetooth) was introduced this year.  It's the evolution of technology.

And it drastically cuts the cost of command control for new people in the hobby.  You don't need to buy anything, no wi-fi box, no command base, no anything to have basic command control, which is unique in the hobby of model railroading at present.  When you buy a Lionchief set or loco, or a LC+ loco, you get a remote with each loco, and they are relatively inexpensive, and complement your Legacy system.  It's a feature, not a bug .  Your investment in Legacy, which can control trains, lashups, switches, program routes, etc. isn't in any way compromised.

Landsteiner posted:

You don't need to buy anything, no wi-fi box, no command base, no anything to have basic command control, which is unique in the hobby of model railroading at present.

Bingo.  I've been involved in this hobby less than a year.  My only regret is buying MTH engines when I got started.  I'm 100% Lionel from now on because they have Bluetooth.  I own a couple LC+ and now have a couple Legacy engines on order because they have Bluetooth.  Hopefully, it will never be necessary to invest in Legacy or DCS for those of us starting out. 

Landsteiner posted:

"Why is Lionel adding a function that is useless to us that have heavily invested in their Legacy Control System?  $300 for the command base and remote and on average $100 per Legacy Box?  Man, I don't understand this marketing logic."

I'm guessing the Bluetooth license costs all of about $1.00 per loco.  It's not primarily designed for those already using the Legacy system.  Lionel is working on a possible technical solution for having Legacy talking to Lionchief/Bluetooth. 

Lionchief started out as something simply to keep costs down for starter sets and provide a remote and limited command control for these customers.  It became so popular that Lionchief+ was introduced to have conventional compatibility.  LC+ was so popular that a need for a system that could operate all new locos (Bluetooth) was introduced this year.  It's the evolution of technology.

And it drastically cuts the cost of command control for new people in the hobby.  You don't need to buy anything, no wi-fi box, no command base, no anything to have basic command control, which is unique in the hobby of model railroading at present.  When you buy a Lionchief set or loco, or a LC+ loco, you get a remote with each loco, and they are relatively inexpensive, and complement your Legacy system.  It's a feature, not a bug .  Your investment in Legacy, which can control trains, lashups, switches, program routes, etc. isn't in any way compromised.

why?

starter sets!

Loose-Caboose posted:

What makes this a "Universal Remote"?  It only seems to control Locomotives. And only Three to boot.

So I go out and spend $1900 for this Niagara Locomotive and I also am buying "Bluetooth" communication that I will never use.  Does not Lionel need to purchase a Bluetooth License for each Locomotive?  Why is Lionel adding a function that is useless to us that have heavily invested in their Legacy Control System?  $300 for the command base and remote and on average $100 per Legacy Box?  Man, I don't understand this marketing logic.

The term "universal" may be a marketing stretch, but it's designed to operate up to three LC/LC+ engines at the same time. LC/LC+ engines each come with their own separate remote on a different frequency so if you wanted to run all three at the same time, you'd have to juggle three remotes. With the orange "universal" remote you can operate all three from the same remote. Very convenient. 

I have Legacy on my layout, but also believe Bluetooth is an added bonus to Legacy engines, not a detriment, and the Lionel BT app is free download to your device. If you had a young child or grandchild, think how neat it would be to have them be able to operate that Niagra on a cell phone app they'd pick up in about 5 seconds and have a boatload of fun with.  

Richie C. posted:

Loose-Caboose posted:

What makes this a "Universal Remote"?  It only seems to control Locomotives. And only Three to boot.

So I go out and spend $1900 for this Niagara Locomotive and I also am buying "Bluetooth" communication that I will never use.  Does not Lionel need to purchase a Bluetooth License for each Locomotive?  Why is Lionel adding a function that is useless to us that have heavily invested in their Legacy Control System?  $300 for the command base and remote and on average $100 per Legacy Box?  Man, I don't understand this marketing logic.

The term "universal" may be a marketing stretch, but it's designed to operate up to three LC/LC+ engines at the same time. LC/LC+ engines each come with their own separate remote on a different frequency so if you wanted to run all three at the same time, you'd have to juggle three remotes. With the orange "universal" remote you can operate all three from the same remote. Very convenient. 

I have Legacy on my layout, but also believe Bluetooth is an added bonus to Legacy engines, not a detriment, and the Lionel BT app is free download to your device. If you had a young child or grandchild, think how neat it would be to have them be able to operate that Niagra on a cell phone app they'd pick up in about 5 seconds and have a boatload of fun with.  

So activating the sounds, moving switches, etc. are a detriment? They aren't part of the fun? And also I used the term "license" in a prior post.  It may be a minimal cost but the on going engineering to maintain the function must be a cost to product and I think you need to maintain certification which is a cost. All this could be applied to the Legacy engineering to further that product.  If Lionel had gone down the Bluetooth route to begin with I would have a different take on this issue.  But to support two different command functions is splitting engineering costs. BTW , to dispel me from being a curmudgeon old geezer, I am a smartphone fanatic and love technology (lol). 

 

But to support two different command functions is splitting engineering costs.

 

Agreed.  I think they're facing a real challenge.  Howard Hitchcock made reference to it in the recent Notch 6 podcast.  It sounded like they're trying to come up with something that is backwards compatible with everything.

So activating the sounds, moving switches, etc. are a detriment? 

I can't control my switches (yet) with Bluetooth but sounds and smoke are a go!

Loose-Caboose posted:

Richie C. posted:

Loose-Caboose posted:

What makes this a "Universal Remote"?  It only seems to control Locomotives. And only Three to boot.

So I go out and spend $1900 for this Niagara Locomotive and I also am buying "Bluetooth" communication that I will never use.  Does not Lionel need to purchase a Bluetooth License for each Locomotive?  Why is Lionel adding a function that is useless to us that have heavily invested in their Legacy Control System?  $300 for the command base and remote and on average $100 per Legacy Box?  Man, I don't understand this marketing logic.

The term "universal" may be a marketing stretch, but it's designed to operate up to three LC/LC+ engines at the same time. LC/LC+ engines each come with their own separate remote on a different frequency so if you wanted to run all three at the same time, you'd have to juggle three remotes. With the orange "universal" remote you can operate all three from the same remote. Very convenient. 

I have Legacy on my layout, but also believe Bluetooth is an added bonus to Legacy engines, not a detriment, and the Lionel BT app is free download to your device. If you had a young child or grandchild, think how neat it would be to have them be able to operate that Niagra on a cell phone app they'd pick up in about 5 seconds and have a boatload of fun with.  

So activating the sounds, moving switches, etc. are a detriment? They aren't part of the fun? And also I used the term "license" in a prior post.  It may be a minimal cost but the on going engineering to maintain the function must be a cost to product and I think you need to maintain certification which is a cost. All this could be applied to the Legacy engineering to further that product.  If Lionel had gone down the Bluetooth route to begin with I would have a different take on this issue.  But to support two different command functions is splitting engineering costs. BTW , to dispel me from being a curmudgeon old geezer, I am a smartphone fanatic and love technology (lol). 

Just to be clear, I never, ever said that Legacy sounds, moving switches, etc. were a detriment - I don't know how you came up with that from my comments.

I was simply trying to explain my thoughts on the "universal" remote and responding to your original post in which you implied that BT was a detriment to you in new Legacy engines in the sense that you were having to pay more ($1900) for a locomotive that had a feature (BT) that you would "never use" and that was "useless" to you. In fact, someone else pointed out in response to your post that BT in Legacy engines was a "feature, not a bug."

I love my Legacy system and all that it can do, but I also respect the fact that others may want to go in a different direction and I see nothing wrong with Lionel developing, adding and promoting BT as a way to bring more people, especially a younger demographic, into the hobby and, if it costs me an extra $5 on a $1,900 engine, I'm happy to support it.

In addition, Legacy isn't just about it's operational features - it's also about a higher quality of build and better looking locomotives that were not previously available to BT users of LC/LC+ engines. With BT now added to Legacy engines, BT users can now get the same quality of build, which I'm sure they appreciate.

As far as supporting "two different command functions", my outlook is that Lionel has always been about attempting to make sure that every new technology that comes out does not render previous technologies obsolete and adding BT to Legacy is an outgrowth of that philosophy and, no, I don't think you're a curmudgeon old geezer. On the other hand, I'm no spring chicken, either.

I love Legacy command, and DCS as well.  I have the WIU and can control the MTH locomotives and all my switches with my phone.  However, I don't really do so.  I actually like the remotes, having the tactile feedback of the buttons, wheels, and especially the cab2's quilling slider, and I am really not pleased with the what sounds to me like a seeming inevitability of a move by MTH and Lionel away from even making the remote handhelds in favor of the use of phones and other devices instead.  But, in my opinion, if you are a toy train maker, it seems to be a no brainer to get bluetooth involved in your trains in this day and age.  

pennsy484 posted:

 I actually like the remotes, having the tactile feedback of the buttons, wheels, and especially the cab2's quilling slider, and I am really not pleased with the what sounds to me like a seeming inevitability of a move by MTH and Lionel away from even making the remote handhelds in favor of the use of phones and other devices instead.  But, in my opinion, if you are a toy train maker, it seems to be a no brainer to get bluetooth involved in your trains in this day and age.  

You are not alone but this is one less piece of hardware that they have to make that can become outdated from the time it's conceived to the time it's produced.  I personally am in the dedicated remote camp but can see why they would go the App route.  Upgrades, features, and graphical interfaces are a lot easier to accomplish with a software platform using someone else's hardware.  Let Apple, Samsung, and others build the hardware.   

Richie C. posted:

Loose-Caboose posted:

Richie C. posted:

Loose-Caboose posted:

What makes this a "Universal Remote"?  It only seems to control Locomotives. And only Three to boot.

So I go out and spend $1900 for this Niagara Locomotive and I also am buying "Bluetooth" communication that I will never use.  Does not Lionel need to purchase a Bluetooth License for each Locomotive?  Why is Lionel adding a function that is useless to us that have heavily invested in their Legacy Control System?  $300 for the command base and remote and on average $100 per Legacy Box?  Man, I don't understand this marketing logic.

The term "universal" may be a marketing stretch, but it's designed to operate up to three LC/LC+ engines at the same time. LC/LC+ engines each come with their own separate remote on a different frequency so if you wanted to run all three at the same time, you'd have to juggle three remotes. With the orange "universal" remote you can operate all three from the same remote. Very convenient. 

I have Legacy on my layout, but also believe Bluetooth is an added bonus to Legacy engines, not a detriment, and the Lionel BT app is free download to your device. If you had a young child or grandchild, think how neat it would be to have them be able to operate that Niagra on a cell phone app they'd pick up in about 5 seconds and have a boatload of fun with.  

So activating the sounds, moving switches, etc. are a detriment? They aren't part of the fun? And also I used the term "license" in a prior post.  It may be a minimal cost but the on going engineering to maintain the function must be a cost to product and I think you need to maintain certification which is a cost. All this could be applied to the Legacy engineering to further that product.  If Lionel had gone down the Bluetooth route to begin with I would have a different take on this issue.  But to support two different command functions is splitting engineering costs. BTW , to dispel me from being a curmudgeon old geezer, I am a smartphone fanatic and love technology (lol). 

Just to be clear, I never, ever said that Legacy sounds, moving switches, etc. were a detriment - I don't know how you came up with that from my comments.

I was simply trying to explain my thoughts on the "universal" remote and responding to your original post in which you implied that BT was a detriment to you in new Legacy engines in the sense that you were having to pay more ($1900) for a locomotive that had a feature (BT) that you would "never use" and that was "useless" to you. In fact, someone else pointed out in response to your post that BT in Legacy engines was a "feature, not a bug."

I love my Legacy system and all that it can do, but I also respect the fact that others may want to go in a different direction and I see nothing wrong with Lionel developing, adding and promoting BT as a way to bring more people, especially a younger demographic, into the hobby and, if it costs me an extra $5 on a $1,900 engine, I'm happy to support it.

In addition, Legacy isn't just about it's operational features - it's also about a higher quality of build and better looking locomotives that were not previously available to BT users of LC/LC+ engines. With BT now added to Legacy engines, BT users can now get the same quality of build, which I'm sure they appreciate.

As far as supporting "two different command functions", my outlook is that Lionel has always been about attempting to make sure that every new technology that comes out does not render previous technologies obsolete and adding BT to Legacy is an outgrowth of that philosophy and, no, I don't think you're a curmudgeon old geezer. On the other hand, I'm no spring chicken, either.

 

Settle down, I am not your enemy. To the contrary, I am a very easy going kind of guy with questions and concerns  Sorry if you took my reply to be antogonistic.  

I think I'm pretty well settled and didn't take your reply to be antagonistic - just an inaccurate representation of what I said.

Glad there's at least two easy going guys on the Forum.

Hear Hear! Or is it Here Here? This English language is so hard to understand some times! 

For the record, I believe I have as much experience running bluetooth as anyone on the forum and it is a joy to use.