Lionel 2021 UP Turbine technical info

Thank you Dave, very excited for this engine and the Acela!

I think you’ve covered all my questions. Looking forward to owning one of these beasts.

@MartyE posted:

I think you’ve covered all my questions. Looking forward to owning one of these beasts.

Same here. Thanks @Dave Olson been looking forward to this one for a long time.

This Engine I have been looking forward to for a LONG time!  Sold my original and was sorry ever since!  Thank YOU Lionel for listening to us !!!

Thanks, Dave, for including a SP Bloody Nose as a Veranda.

Perfect.  And soon to be on order.

Sounds like a nice upgrade from the TMCC unit, I wonder what I can get for my old one.

@Dave Olson - You might not be able to answer this question, but I'm wondering for the tender sound, are you attempting to use a low pass filter to actively enhance the low frequency (bass) region or are you amplifying the lf region to enhance bass...or is the the use of two speakers considered enough to designate the unit as "super bass "?

Thank you,
Anthony

Sounds fantastic.  I ordered two, Rio Grande  and Alaska.  I can't wait to receive them.

Now the unanswerable.  When will they arrive? Lol

Thanks for the information Dave! From the looks of it you had plenty of work for in this catalog

I have a quick question about this monstah..how much clearance on the outside of the curve does this thing need..I have 072 but its a lil close here and there..Id love to order one Thanks!

@Dave Olson posted:

• VSR - Voice Streaming and Recording. This will not nor will any other Legacy engine from the 2021 Big Book will have the feature. Only the skus in the catalog that have the VSR icon will, which are currently limited to some of the Ready to Run sets. We'll see how it does there and possibly roll it into Legacy in the future. It is a feature targeted more toward kids, so that's why we're starting it off in RTR.

Just my two cents real quick; I think I would use this as an adult quite often. More so than LVC. Might be worth some market research to see what others think. I mostly see it as a cool feature when you're railroading with buddies. It would be especially cool if it had a passive mode that allowed a session dispatcher to communicate through the train like in real life in place of the headset or telephone.

Just something to consider! Loved the catalog this year!

Can the new Veranda operate as a lash up (sorry Rich) with the original Veranda?

@Snkbittin posted:

I have a quick question about this monstah..how much clearance on the outside of the curve does this thing need..I have 072 but its a lil close here and there..Id love to order one Thanks!

3+ inches from the center rail should do it, and 6" between adjacent tracks.

@Jeff2035 posted:

Can the new Veranda operate as a lash up (sorry Rich) with the original Veranda?

Probably as a TMCC MU, like most other Legacy products.

@gunrunnerjohn  Do you think the TMCC version would run on O64 or is O72 the absolute minimum?

Well, I've only run it on O72, but it might run on O64.  I only have O72 and larger, so I can't personally test this.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Well, I've only run it on O72, but it might run on O64.  I only have O72 and larger, so I can't personally test this.

Thanks anyway.  I’ve been following your thread on your new layout. Very nice.

I would love to own one of these as I never had one in my collection. The big question is do I want the green hood with the silver trucks or the black/grey trucks with grey hood....I always liked the green hood but I also like the dark grey trucks on the #65 model. Anyone have thoughts on this also? I wonder the detail compared to the MTH models.

I also wonder (hope) if Lionel will ever do a DD40 Legacy or even a Visionline model as I love the DD40s

@Matthew posted:

I would love to own one of these as I never had one in my collection. The big question is do I want the green hood with the silver trucks or the black/grey trucks with grey hood....I always like the green hood but I also like the dark grey trucks on the #65 model. Anyone have thoughts on this also? Also, I wonder the detail compared to the MTH models.

I also wonder (hope) if Lionel will ever do a DD40 Legacy or even a Visionline model as I love the DD40s

Its been a while since a vision line diesel. Been all steam lately

I’m excited for these.  Love that they come with super bass as the sounds should be awesome.  Also like the dual smoke and die cast!  Plan to order one.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

3+ inches from the center rail should do it, and 6" between adjacent tracks.

Thanks John! i should be ok ..might be one spot that will need to be expanded ..now to decide which one to get

This one is a definite and priced right for what you get.  Been waiting a long time for one of these.  Thank you for finally doing it!

Now we need a Nickel Plate one for @Rich Melvin that he could "lashup" with the 765.  LOL!

@A. Wells posted:

@Dave Olson - You might not be able to answer this question, but I'm wondering for the tender sound, are you attempting to use a low pass filter to actively enhance the low frequency (bass) region or are you amplifying the lf region to enhance bass...or is the the use of two speakers considered enough to designate the unit as "super bass "?

Thank you,
Anthony

It's a secret. Jk. I didn't want to have to modify the PCB hardware for superbass units, so we achieve the effect by using larger speaker enclosures and adjusting the audio files accordingly. It typically calls for the audio engineer to spend a few days getting the motor sounds just right, but makes for a nice effect.

@Chris Lord posted:

Now the unanswerable.  When will they arrive? Lol

The production schedule isn't finalized until a couple of weeks after the order window is closed in March. So ask again then and I'll know. But I do know it'll be this year.

Once I get a good running sample and we get the sounds up to snuff, I'll do a Demos with Dave episode to show it off.

@Dave Olson - Mr. Olson - Thanks for the info! Yeah, increasing the enclosure size and having a small reflex port really helps with the bass...at least that's what I've found.  Regarding bass enhancement, I have a side project where I'm trying to shunt the audio from the MTH PS3.0 into a separate PCB with an adjustable low pass filter and low power audio amplifier for strictly bass usage.  Unfortunately last night was a very, very bad reflow solder night.

Anthony

It's sounding better and better all the time, I was hoping I could be satisfied with my TMCC version.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

It's sounding better and better all the time, I was hoping I could be satisfied with my TMCC version.

Come on John you know you want to pull the trigger.

Well, want to and need to are two different feelings.

@MartyE posted:

Now we need a Nickel Plate one for @Rich Melvin that he could "lashup" with the 765.  LOL!

Can you lend me some rope? I'm all out. 

@Dave Olson  thanks for the information.  This engine is a must have for me!  I really appreciate that you guys are making the engine and tender compatible for kadee couplers!  You saved me a bunch of time!!  Thank you!

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Well, want to and need to are two different feelings.

I feel the need strongly, and as I was among those who agitated with Lionel for the Veranda to be reissued (as a VL, which it practically is without being labelled as such), I also feel obliged.

@Tanner111 posted:

@gunrunnerjohn  Do you think the TMCC version would run on O64 or is O72 the absolute minimum?

A friend brought over a TMCC Veranda once. It needed all of 072. I highly doubt it would run on 064. If it does it for sure will not like switches.

@Lou1985 posted:

A friend brought over a TMCC Veranda once. It needed all of 072. I highly doubt it would run on 064. If it does it for sure will not like switches.

Thanks Lou. I really appreciate it.

@Dave Olson posted:

The production schedule isn't finalized until a couple of weeks after the order window is closed in March.

When does the ordering window close?

@Dave Olson posted:

It's a secret. Jk. I didn't want to have to modify the PCB hardware for superbass units, so we achieve the effect by using larger speaker enclosures and adjusting the audio files accordingly. It typically calls for the audio engineer to spend a few days getting the motor sounds just right, but makes for a nice effect.

Just make sure the audio is loud and clear! It wouldn't be upset if the bass knocked a few of those uppity plastic people off their feet.

I personally can't wait for this one.  It's one I too have often asked about getting remade.

John,

Let me know if you want to sell your TMCC version.

I had asked about a possible lash up between the original Veranda and the new version. Gunrunner suggested it could be done with TMCC.

One other question, is the first version of Odyssey compatible in a lash up with the current version?

@Dave Olson posted:

Mechanical features:

• Lots of die-cast. Tooling mods done to the shell for electronics upgrades, but still a big, heavy die-cast body. Both the engine and the tender will use handrails on the roof for the TMCC antenna. Tender shell is also die-cast.

Did you guys retool the Cab, Windows and nose.

Originally Lionel and MTH smooshed the face of these units..... never looked good

(Not my Photos)

@Bruk posted:

Did you guys retool the Cab, Windows and nose.

Originally Lionel and MTH smooshed the face of these units..... never looked good

(Not my Photos)

I doubt it.

Did anyone decide on which up version they're going to get out of the 4? I'm having a hard time trying to decide which one I want to order. I have my thoughts on #69 or 65 because of the darker trucks but I love the green hood and the big union pacific letting on the tender of #69

I may order the Pennsylvania version.

@Matthew posted:

Did anyone decide on which up version they're going to get out of the 4? I'm having a hard time trying to decide which one I want to order. I have my thoughts on #69 or 65 because of the darker trucks but I love the green hood and the big union pacific letting on the tender of #69

#69 if you want prototypical. Otherwise,  go with the one that grabs at you. These are going to be Great!

I ordered the army version.

I'm going with the #65 Flag Version I think.  While not prototypical, if they ever would pull one out and repaint it, I think it would probably look like this.  I am actually excited to see folks purchasing the "what if" versions.  It certainly will be a discussion piece on your railroad.  Lionel did a fantastic job with the releases here.  What's not to like.  I could probably see me getting the PRR version too but one is enough.

@Matthew posted:

Did anyone decide on which up version they're going to get out of the 4? I'm having a hard time trying to decide which one I want to order. I have my thoughts on #69 or 65 because of the darker trucks but I love the green hood and the big union pacific letting on the tender of #69

In case it helps, here are a couple of snapshots of the TMCC version, which came with large lettering on the fuel tender:

The second photo, which is actually a video still, shows the engine at idle with the red hazard light illuminated. That goes off when the engine moves forward and the Mars light starts up instead. Smoke is coming from the diesel stack in both photos. The turbine smoke starts at about speed step 15-20. The output on both smoke outlets is less than more recent Legacy models and the turbine could do with an extra "kick" both in terms of volume and rate of exhaust, which I hope is implemented in the new version.

@MartyE posted:

I'm going with the #65 Flag Version I think.  While not prototypical, if they ever would pull one out and repaint it, I think it would probably look like this.  I am actually excited to see folks purchasing the "what if" versions.  It certainly will be a discussion piece on your railroad.  Lionel did a fantastic job with the releases here.  What's not to like.  I could probably see me getting the PRR version too but one is enough.

Love this version also mainly because of the flag and I'm thinking the dark color trucks might look really cool over the silver ..man this is hard lol I also love the Pennsylvania and the Grey UP version #67

@Matthew posted:

Love this version also mainly because of the flag and I'm thinking the dark color trucks might look really cool over the silver ..man this is hard lol I also love the Pennsylvania and the Grey UP version #67

Lionel definitely made it hard to choose just 1 but I'm holding firm.  LOL!

@Hancock52 posted:

In case it helps, here are a couple of snapshots of the TMCC version, which came with large lettering on the fuel tender:

The second photo, which is actually a video still, shows the engine at idle with the red hazard light illuminated. That goes off when the engine moves forward and the Mars light starts up instead. Smoke is coming from the diesel stack in both photos. The turbine smoke starts at about speed step 15-20. The output on both smoke outlets is less than more recent Legacy models and the turbine could do with an extra "kick" both in terms of volume and rate of exhaust, which I hope is implemented in the new version.

Thanks for sharing those pictures definitely helps. 🤔

@Phoebe Snow Route posted:

I may order the Pennsylvania version.

The Pennsylvania would look really cool in a lashup with my single stripe green vision line GG1

@MartyE posted:

Lionel definitely made it hard to choose just 1 but I'm holding firm.  LOL!

Please also get the Greyhound version so I can - and be more confident that it will actually be built!

@Hancock52 posted:

Please also get the Greyhound version so I can - and be more confident that it will actually be built!

Personally I think all 4 UPs will be built.  I think they all represent the UP well.  Looking at the catalog, they all represent very well.  I'd be surprised if any of these are cancelled.  The Acelas though I'm just not sure of.

@MartyE posted:

Personally I think all 4 UPs will be built.  I think they all represent the UP well.  Looking at the catalog, they all represent very well.  I'd be surprised if any of these are cancelled.  The Acelas though I'm just not sure of.

Agreed. Still trying to figure which of 61, 65 or 69 I'd want. Is it just me or does 69 look more orange than 61 and 65? I saw the tender lettering size difference but my daughter asked why the one "looked more orange". Anyone know why this may be the case?

I noticed the same thing and was attracted to the more orange look.

I ordered mine.

The Rio Grande to run in front of the Ski Train Cars.

The Alaska because I have a thing for ARR and have almost everything Lionel every made.

Neither are clos to prototypical but then again, "Toy Trains!"  I just hope they both get made. 

@tom21pa posted:

I doubt it.

Its a deal breaker for me. I’m sure it will perform well. But id rather wait and spend a little more on a proper looking cab/nose.  

@hirailsteve posted:

Agreed. Still trying to figure which of 61, 65 or 69 I'd want. Is it just me or does 69 look more orange than 61 and 65? I saw the tender lettering size difference but my daughter asked why the one "looked more orange". Anyone know why this may be the case?

Please go for 67 (Greyhound) instead so I can get off the fence. Yes, the 69 illustration looks more orange but I would NOT go by that as indicating a different color unless it’s expressly confirmed by Lionel. These catalog illustrations are only mock-ups and I expect the UP versions to be the same UP yellow (apart from 67, which is what everybody should go for).

P.S. I am sure that Lionel appreciates (or should) all this attention being “riveted” so to speak on these pages of the catalog.

@Chris Lord - I was planning on running the Rio Grande Turbine as the head for the Ski Excursion set as well.  I do wish the Rio Grande text on the tender was larger.

I seem to be the only one who is strongly considering the Dept of Defense version... I’m also going to order one of the UP proto versions but I think the DOD version looks awesome!!  I’ll have it pull my Battlefield of Honor series boxcars...

@BHalfway posted:

I seem to be the only one who is strongly considering the Dept of Defense version... I’m also going to order one of the UP proto versions but I think the DOD version looks awesome!!  I’ll have it pull my Battlefield of Honor series boxcars...

I have already put my order in for the department of defense.

@A. Wells posted:

@Chris Lord - I was planning on running the Rio Grande Turbine as the head for the Ski Excursion set as well.  I do wish the Rio Grande text on the tender was larger.

It's not to late to ask Ryan if it could be scaled up.  It's a fantasy scheme anyways!

@Bruk posted:

Its a deal breaker for me. I’m sure it will perform well. But id rather wait and spend a little more on a proper looking cab/nose.  

But who's gonna be making 1? 

@BHalfway - I strongly considered the Dept. of Defense, but I can only afford 1/3 of the turbines, so that got rounded up to one Rio Grande.

@Matthew posted:

I noticed the same thing and was attracted to the more orange look.

Its gonna be same color as other up yellow turbines.  The artwork is just off.

@tom21pa posted:

Its gonna be same color as other up yellow turbines.  The artwork is just off.

I asked our friends at Lionel and they confirmed they'll be the same color.

@MartyE - Who's Ryan?

@A. Wells posted:

@MartyE - Who's Ryan?

Ryan Kunkle from Lionel. @Conrail6358

Because its such an unusual Monstah..Ill stick with prototypical Im going with the #69..love the silver trucks and larger tender letters..if the SP had silver trucks Id do that I think

If really like the department of defense one too. But I’m not getting two so deciding between prototypical and department of defense leaning towards prototypical

... I’m leaning towards the 65 with the flag.  Liking that one.  Like that green hood too but I think 65 might win out

@tom21pa posted:

But who's gonna be making 1?

Its not who, but when it was made.

@Bruk posted:

Its not who, but when it was made.

That's interesting; care to explain? I know that Verandas have been made in brass but HO scale. Not aware of a brass one in O scale.

@Dave Olson Dave any way you could offer a scale pilot for the Veranda?  No doubt those of us that swap the lobster claws for kadees are in the minority.  I imagine those that do convert to Kadees would be happy to purchase as a separate sale item if that makes it production more plausible.  Thanks for considering!

@Hancock52 posted:

That's interesting; care to explain? I know that Verandas have been made in brass but HO scale. Not aware of a brass one in O scale.

Overland Models has made many versions of the Turbines in O scale back in 1980’s here is an example:

https://www.brasstrains.com/Br...eranda-Union-Pacific

They have all the proper cab, windows & headlight proportions.....

@Dave Olson @Conrail6358

@Bruk posted:

Overland Models has made many versions of the Turbines in O scale back in 1980’s here is an example:

https://www.brasstrains.com/Br...eranda-Union-Pacific

They have all the proper cab, windows & headlight proportions.....

@Dave Olson @Conrail6358

Ah, OK, now I see your point.

But aren't you waiting for **** to freeze over? I regard the original Lionel Veranda as a classic and applaud their (belated) decision to reissue it in a Legacy version.

In any case, I wasn't aware of these O scale Overland UP turbine models. And yeah, again, I see your point. Would you convert one to Legacy/TMCC? (I am not going to confess which of their O scale UP engines I have - I'm scared to touch it.)

@T4TT - Since the Lionel Veranda's require O-72 track, they should (only) offer them with fixed steps/pilots (non lobster claw) anyway.  Also, Lionel should take the motor from their Remote/Command FasTrack switches and make a non coil based coupler (cough/cough).

A

@Hancock52 posted:

Ah, OK, now I see your point.

But aren't you waiting for **** to freeze over? I regard the original Lionel Veranda as a classic and applaud their (belated) decision to reissue it in a Legacy version.

In any case, I wasn't aware of these O scale Overland UP turbine models. And yeah, again, I see your point. Would you convert one to Legacy/TMCC? (I am not going to confess which of their O scale UP engines I have - I'm scared to touch it.)

I to applaud them bringing it back. But if they bring it back they might as well fix almost everything. Make it right and up to todays detail standards.

I would not throw out the idea out of “upgrading” it to Lionel electronics or full on DCC conversion.