Lionel #213 Lift Bridge

Obviously I got ripped off on ebay, the seller won't respond and I can't find anyone locally who will try to repair.

Since it won't shut off I used a toggle switch, from the transformer, to turn it on and off, (the lift motor won't shut off) but it won't lower.  Is there anyway to add something that will reverse the motor?  I could toggle the reverse on/off also.

It is in perfect condition cosmetically and I paid a lot for it, sure would like to get it raise/lower from my control panel.

Thanks Frank

If you have the Lionel #6-14167 (#213 Lift Bridge), the instructions make no mention of putting a second lockon on the "double post side". See page 6 of the instructions for the wiring.

Where did you get the info about this other lockon?

Larry

Larry, Although I don't have the instructions in front of me I took a look at them online earlier today and I believe they do mention that lock on. Steps 1 & 2 of the wiring instructions mention the center rail/power and the outside/common connections from that lock to the two speed nut connections on that side.  The connection for the other side with one speed nut is mentioned at the end of the wiring instructions. So I don't think that's necessarily the issue.

I'm wondering if the controller is faulty or if it is not the original. Then again it could be something else.

Frank, do you know if it's the original controller? It shouldn't have any bulbs. It's the same controller that came with the modern O27 switches. 

Hope this helps. 

Mike

Thanks  It does not have lights, I think it is correct.  I took it apart, and its very simple, I don't think anything is wrong with it.  Even with it disconnected the lift motor runs continuously. 

Having read through the instructions, I believe that your wiring is okay. There are no limit switches to stop the motor when it reaches the top so you have to disengage the up lever on the controller to make the motor stop. It should act like a spring loaded momentary push button that you release and the motor should stop. The lower position of the lever should act in a similar manner to lower the bridge and then stop when you release it. Your controller is not doing this.

Fortunately, a new controller is all that you need to fix the problem. The bridge itself seems to be working just fine. If you can't find a controller, 2 momentary push buttons could probably do the job.

Good luck!

If you disconnect your controller and then use a wire to connect the center post of the connections on the bridge to the left or right posts, you should be able to test the up and down action of the motor. This would help to verify if you have a controller problem or not.

Consolidated Leo posted:

If you disconnect your controller and then use a wire to connect the center post of the connections on the bridge to the left or right posts, you should be able to test the up and down action of the motor. This would help to verify if you have a controller problem or not.

Again thanks, unfortunately this did not work, it still does the same thing like it did with the controller connected.  If power is on to the bridge it constantly raises, lift motor won't shut off.  If I push the lower on the controller or connect a wire from the center and left connection it stops lifting but won't lower.  If I connect a wire to the center and the right connection it just continues to raise.

Is this a new bridge, or had it been used by the previous owner? I have one & have had no problems with it. In my opinion, it is the best accessory that Lionel ever made.

He claims it was new, only took it out of the box to test it, and I paid a new price.  He was 2 weeks late shipping it, claimed to have health problems.  I bought it in May but didn't even open the box until August and found it in the condition it is in.  Valuable lesson was learned.  The screws in the top of the side of the tower that have the motor are missing, a very poor wire splice with black tape on the bottom.  He ripped me off and I will not let it go. 

Frank, your best recourse is filing a complaint through eBay, and hopefully force him to return your purchase fee. How good was his Feedback rating, and number of successful sales.  From reading your responses, he sold it with describing it as NEW, which it definitely isn't with a tape splice.  Your worst problem is the long gap from May until now.  You really learned a big lesson.  Good luck anyway.

FrankM posted:

 

...Even with it disconnected the lift motor runs continuously. 

I think this is where you need to focus.  With the controller disconnected and power applied you need to find what I'd think is a shorted wire/connection that constantly applies lift power to the motor. 

As I understand it, the motor in the modern 213 is a DC type.  So what I'm thinking is there might be two diodes near the connector which apply one or the other polarity to the DC motor to control direction.  This means that when you press the lower button, the motor sees alternating lift and lower voltages and effectively just sits there.

Is this just sitting out on a test bench or whatever?  Is it practical to turn it over to inspect the wiring near the connector where the controller and track power is applied?  Can we see a photo of this?

Removing the controls narrows it down to the control or the unit.

You should be able to test the switch with a low volt source and matching bulb used at your load or ohm/volt meter. I'm guessing 3 wires, 1 in, 2 outputs, if centered no connections get made. Lighted sw.track controls usally use 4; the fouth being the second power leg for the controller's lamp(s).

  If you don't have a meter, note the directions the diodes face to figure out which to swap, or if one ended up in backwards at the factory too.

 Other points could be argued, but his case falls flat with the splice if that wasnt revealed somehow, your delay is the only argument he has. Ebay policy is your only chance.

TrainLarry posted:

If you have the Lionel #6-14167 (#213 Lift Bridge), the instructions make no mention of putting a second lockon on the "double post side". See page 6 of the instructions for the wiring.

Where did you get the info about this other lockon?

Larry

The dual post's side is "power in", he is feeding the lift motor there with #2L.O. and constant track power.

#1 L.O. with single wire is feeding the center rails of the unit only.

You could increase the length of the locomotive "saftey zone" before.the bridge, by moving the L.Ons further away, moving all insulation points further away by ? sections of track, and using normal pins where the plastic pins are presently at. The same can be done to increase the saftey distance on the anti derail features of turnouts.

(Note a turnouts anti derail track must be insulated from ties + other outside rail, so this is easier to extend on.)

I found in another post a reference to this service supplement pdf file. The last page shows the internal wiring diagram for the 213 lift bridge. There is no information about the components on the "mother board" so the true nature of the circuit remains a mystery. But if this unit was re-wired, then maybe we can trace it from this diagram.

Ahh.  The diagram Leo found peels several layers of the onion.

Is poking around the wiring and using a meter in your comfort zone?  I still think the first order of business is to track down why the motor runs in the lift direction when the controller isn't even attached.  As several guys have pointed out, the motor lifts or lowers when the center controller connection is shorted to one or the other controller connection.  Obviously nothing should happen if the controller is disconnected.  So first inspect for a short in the vicinity of the 3 controller connections.

Additionally, note the 2 red circles indicating resistors.  If the wiring or connection to one of these resistors is broken, or if the component itself is cracked, I suspect the corresponding motor direction will activate even with no controller connection.  Then follow the wiring to the "Mother Board".   You'd need to be somewhat handy with a meter to troubleshoot the mother board - if you get this far take some close up photos of the board and one of us can suggest what measurements to make.

In this thread https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/...-help-finding-a-part

the circuit board is apparently not available for purchase.  The diagram of item 26 above looks like it's a fairly simple board with maybe a half dozen components so I'd think it repairable if that's the last resort.  The replacement component cost would be minimal (a few dollars at most) but of course soldering and working with small components is not in everyone's comfort zone.  Or, as suggested in the thread, if the mother board is the issue another approach is to bypass the board and directly wire to the motor with a polarity reversing switch.

If you can post photos of the above areas one of us might be able to see something.  I'm also curious about the wire splice with black tape in this supposedly New unit.

not to be a Debbie downer,but I had one new out of the box,stopped working after a couple of months,took months to get it repaired,they said bad  board,got it back couple of months ,same thing this time sol,,,,no boards,the great repairman at bradys in Greensburg came up with the idea that it would work,,the motor with a dc input and worked it with a toggle switch,but the led worked  !

If the board is as simple as the line drawing suggests (half a dozen components or so), it would be useful to put the matter to rest and get to the bottom of it.  Is it not available because it's failure-prone, or because it's too hard to replace (I count 9 wires going to it), or who knows.  To that end, if someone posts close-up photos of the board (top and bottom) I'm pretty sure I can extract a schematic of it. 

The board appears to also supply power to the tower LEDs so in Terry's case I suspect the repairman left the board in place to perform that function.  Just the part of the circuit that drives the motor was bypassed and replaced with the toggle switch that reverses the DC voltage to the motor.

Guys, great stuff, can't thank you enough.  I will take pictures of the splice job, a real hack job but I checked the connection and its okay.  You really can't see anything on the underneath side of the bridge, just the wire leads are exposed and they all go up into the tower, to the motor.  I really appreciate all the efforts taken to help me fix it and I will try to do what was suggested.  I will take photos and post what I find, thanks for all the great ideas.  I am electrically challenged and literally know nothing about wiring or components.  

The Leds do not work also.

I really think my best route is to bypass the mother board and just run it manually, this would be perfectly okay by me.  Although when I do disassemble the tower I will look for problems and post what I find.  Sounds like if the board isn't already bad it has a high likelihood of failing quickly. 

What would I need to just reverse the polarity of the motor and use toggle switches to raise/lower it?

As far as the dirtbag who sold me this.  I sent him an email in August and he never replied until last night after I threatened him.  Seems his sense of time is almost as good as his grammar, it was less than 3 months from the time I purchased until I tried to contact him.   I was simply asking him how he wired it to make it work since it wouldn't work for me.  I think his response is a little defensive.

My email on Aug 12 th

Frank here, I purchased the lionel 213 lift bridge off of you in May, there is a screw missing in the tower at the top like it was dismantled at some point. You told me you ran it up and down and it worked fine. I installed it today and the drive lift motor will not stop running and the controller won't lower it, it constantly raises. How did you wire it when you checked it and said it worked fine?

His response:

 responding to you about the Lionel lift bridge No.213. First of all I am one of the few sellers that offer a 14 day full money back return if you are not 100% happy with the purchase for any reason, and you wait till Aug 14 to contact me with a problem four months latter. Second you say a screw was missing on top and you think some one top of the lift bridge hum ? got news for you, as I said that that lift bridge was purchase brand new and on tested it went up perfectly fine and went down perfectly fine with that controller and there was no problems! You ask me how did I hook up the wiring it was easy " I Read The Instructions " which were easy. it say right on the box for ages 14 to adult. I can tell you this that it is controlled by what they call a momentary switch for raising and lowering the bridge, so commonsense would tell you you hook it up wrong! I am over here and your over there with the easy instructions! what can I do I dont no what your doing wrong. And if you were running it to the top with out stopping the power you might of damage the bridge! This is a perfect example why I can't do this any more on ebay! And how do I know you were not running that bridge up and down for four months until it give out. To say that I am disappointed over this transaction is a huge understatement! coming from a four year ebay member with 100% and all five stars across the board on ebay sales