Lionel 3927 Track Cleaning Car

They were all very loud Growlers. I would try taking it apart cleaning it up very good maybe the brushes and it might have a bad thrust bearing but it should be a simple fix.

The one I have sounds louder then the one in the video. 

As others have said, those are noisy machines.  When I first put electricity to mine I had similar concerns.

There is very little to them--a motor and some nylon gears.  Take the top off, service the motor, and see what's what with the gears.

It could use a complete overhaul, new brushes, oiling and lube, and most likely you should replace the pad.  The idea was a good idea back in the day, but they really are a problematic unit.  There are better options available today.

The noise is probably from the often overlooked drive gear lubrication. The metal gears need a drop of oil on them.

Mine made a lot of noise too, but it got quieter after I hit it with 220v.  Real quiet now.

Chris S.

I just took a close look at the black screw that secures the cab to the frame; not a mark on it; this car has never been opened.  Checked the wheels, there is still original black on all of them showing very little wear; I would not mind getting it in better order.  A video of a good one would be appreciated.

FIREONE, that is pretty funny.

Here you go - not in pristine condition, but I just recently cleaned and lubed it - still noisy! But I will say my scrubber brush thingy is going around much faster than yours!!!

GEOPEG, thanks a million!!!  I am heading toward keeping it and not sending it back.  Yours sounds just like mine!  I discovered this from CW Burfle in https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/...aintenance-questions

I did the same as CW, and I would concur with his comments on gear wear. Probably why mine is still pretty noisy … but then as an actual track cleaning car, this thing is a bit sucky, so I just do it by hand for now. I have seen some better designs showing up in this forum. If I can ever  get away from carpet layouts, I will give one or two of them a try!

Tear it apart and clean it, there's not much to these things. I'm going to guess that your uber-slow armature speed is being caused by a LOT of crud on and in between the commutator segments … or just to cover my bases, check for crud in the gears too!!! 

George

Here's a couple of drawings to help in the cleaning process

Thanks a million GEOPEG!!  I will keep those drawings!!

Decided to just put it on the track and let it run a bit by itself, maybe work out the cob webs.  It ran all of 15 seconds, then went intermittent, then quit and began stinking a bit; cut the power.  After a few more attempts rolling it a little on the track, the motor didn't spin.

Will see if I can ship it back to the seller on the Bay; will keep the forum informed.

Thanks to GEOPEG and to the rest of the members for the advice!!!

There are quite a few on the Bay; may give it one last shot.

And I agree, that one needs to go back to whoever sold it to you, especially if it was advertised as functional. "As-Is" would of course, be a different story.

Good luck!!

The unit you have looks clean and complete, but any motor will stall and smoke of 40 year old grease is gumming it up.  If you are not willing to dive into it and give it a good cleaning and lube I suggest staying away from another PW cleaner.  Why put these ebay sellers through the misery of taking returns. Anything postwar should be considered as is, unless of course there is abnormal wear or physical damage not disclosed.

It is too bad such a nice piece was operated to "death" instead of simply serviced as recommended.

StrapHanger posted:

The unit you have looks clean and complete, but any motor will stall and smoke of 40 year old grease is gumming it up.  If you are not willing to dive into it and give it a good cleaning and lube I suggest staying away from another PW cleaner.  Why put these ebay sellers through the misery of taking returns. Anything postwar should be considered as is, unless of course there is abnormal wear or physical damage not disclosed.

I hear you; however, it isn't like they are giving them away; I paid $70 plus shipping with the understanding that it worked; this one worked for about 15 - 40 seconds; then quit.  For the money, I expected at least a minute!  Misery - well excuuuuuuuuuuuuuuse me; if you offer compromised items, then expect the outcome.  Now I have to deal with the effort to send it back and then wait for the refund.

Jim Barrett had an article on these many years ago. He replaced the pad with an nylon abrasive pad like a Scotch Bright pad. Mine is noisy too.

Jim D.

Jim D posted:

Jim Barrett had an article on these many years ago. He replaced the pad with an nylon abrasive pad like a Scotch Bright pad. Mine is noisy too.

Jim D.

Thanks Jim!!  Have collected quite a number of tips on the pad!!  Have also bought quite a number of discs and pads while awaiting arrival of the first unit; still on the hunt.

The Jim Barrett article on replacing the sponge with a scotch brite pad is great(you cut a circular pad out of the scotch brite and use an adhesive like Goo that allows you to replace the pad with a clean one, when needed).

This really cleans the track very well.

I have been using mine since the article came out.

Thanks Jeff!  It seems that the users of the 3927 are happy with the use of the scotchbrite pad.  Have also learned from the many threads on this model that it is quite noisy; maybe purposely engineered that way so as not forget its presence on the track.

bmoran4 posted:

It is too bad such a nice piece was operated to "death" instead of simply serviced as recommended.

Yes bmoran4; I was quite disappointed as well; this one had a perfect exterior - with a box and owner's manual it could have passed for NEW; however, something failed with the motor that made it go intermittent and then stop; I bet C.W. Burfle would know what to do.

RickM46 posted:

bmoran4 posted:

It is too bad such a nice piece was operated to "death" instead of simply serviced as recommended.

Yes bmoran4; I was quite disappointed as well; this one had a perfect exterior - with a box and owner's manual it could have passed for NEW; however, something failed with the motor that made it go intermittent and then stop; I bet C.W. Burfle would know what to do.

I referring to my inference that this equipment, over half a century old, was purchased and not first serviced by the buyer, but operated it to the point of failure, and the buyer faults the seller... Fortunately, it is probably a very easy fix with some cleaning, lubing, and replacement of wear items.

Fortunately, the service documents are available here:

http://olsenstoy.com/searchcd31.htm?itm=549

and the instruction sheet here:

https://www.tandem-associates....ack_cleaning_car.htm

The power train parts are fairly available, sans the 3927-10 Washing Head Gear.

Here is another thread where maintenance of this unit is discussed with good info:

https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/...aintenance-questions

Thanks BMORAN4!!  I saved off all the info above; priceless!! 

Regarding buyer vs seller: when the seller indicates that the unit is in 'Excellent' condition, I am thinking that it will run.  I am not naive about the Bay; boils down to trust but verify and buyer beware.  Most sellers are very reasonable regarding returns; bought dozens of Lionel stuff on the Bay and only had to return 3 with no drama and an amicable departure.

One of the first things I do with a purchase is run it 'as is' to make sure the basics are there; even with my new Legacy items.  Once you wrench on it, you own it.  With this one, right out of the box, I knew something was wrong; blue spark, slow spin, heavy ozone smell, intermittent spin, no spin: your gut rules. 

I am no mechanic.  If I were a Burfle with parts, no sweat; would have loved to restore such a 1956 antique -- good American times.   As it is, it's going back to the seller -  a good model train merchant; maybe he can fix it.  If he does, I will be first in line.

This is my unit here. It's dirty and has been in the cleanup pile for some time

Brush plate unscrewed and armature removed. It's again dirty with hard grey stuff that  was grease and oil at one time

It worked before disassembly, but it was loud with heavy vibration.

Cleaned out the gaps with toothpick and cleaned surface with green scotch bright. Never sandpaper or steel wool

to get going placed a drop of oil down the bearing hole, drop of oil on the cluster gear shaft and plastic safe grease on gear

Truly sorry if the tone of my previous reply was taken as off putting. That was certainly not the desired result.  Hope these pics help at all when you get a cleaner you are happy with.

milwrd posted:

FIREONE, that is pretty funny.

Hence my handle.

FireOne aka Chris S.

Straphanger, thanks for the video.  Mine sounds exactly the same after essentially the same servicing.

Straphanger, my response was fueled by disappointment of 2 that didn't work out; my apologies also; your photos and videos and procedure are priceless!!  I will use them on my next car.  I will use your video as the standard for a good one.  You are definitely gracious. 

Actually, you and bmoran4 inspired me to continue the hunt and keep on tryin; I have yet another in mind and am bidding on it.  Hopefully it will run when it arrives.  Then, I will use your photos to get it cleaned up and lubed.

Would you mind a tap on the shoulder with questions when I go into it??

The videos sound fine. I have repaired many, many of them and in good shape sounds like the last one. The noise is metal gear against metal gear, against metal gear, against nylon gear. As long as the 2 cluster drive gears have oil on the shaft. One final thing you could do is a very light coating of grease around the wash head gear that goes in the die cast chassis.

Chuck, thanks for the info; now I have to wait till Sunday till bids are over; hopefully, I will get a good one.

Chuck Sartor posted:

The videos sound fine. I have repaired many, many of them and in good shape sounds like the last one. The noise is metal gear against metal gear, against metal gear, against nylon gear. As long as the 2 cluster drive gears have oil on the shaft. One final thing you could do is a very light coating of grease around the wash head gear that goes in the die cast chassis.

Exactly! a lot of gears slapping up and down at high speeds is going on. It was also noticed that a drop of oil in the brush plate hole really reduced noise, but only for a brief moment before the oil was slung out.  A lot of the noise appears to be generated from the shaft and brush plate contact, just the way it is i guess. The unit in my video needs further cleaning, including getting access to the 2nd cluster gear under the coil

Had time to think about the generosity of the members on the forum; my intensity for the hobby sometimes outweighs my better judgement; this adventure in looking a for a 3927 lead in directions I had not foreseen; back on track to enjoying the info (priceless) and participation of members and enjoying the mission.  To name a few - Geopeg, Straphanger, Bmoran4, Chuck, thanks for the priceless info and forbearance!!

Gentlemen, thanks many times!!  Merry Christmas!!

RickM46 posted:

Chuck, thanks for the info; now I have to wait till Sunday till bids are over; hopefully, I will get a good one.

Rick, if you don’t want to wait till an auction ends, I have a 3927 Track cleaning car that just came in, you would need to get sponges, wipers, and the bottles, these are all fairly cheap...but I’ll clean it, service it, and have it running like it should....I can kick it out the door tomorrow , shipped to your door for 40 bucks....3 day priority......don’t know if that helps, but I’ll throw it out there....I’ll guarantee it’s operation..............email is in my profile....just like to see you get what you want..........Pat..

Here’s the little booger that just came in, not in bad shape at all....Pat

harmonyards posted:

RickM46 posted:

Chuck, thanks for the info; now I have to wait till Sunday till bids are over; hopefully, I will get a good one.

Rick, if you don’t want to wait till an auction ends, I have a 3927 Track cleaning car that just came in, you would need to get sponges, wipers, and the bottles, these are all fairly cheap...but I’ll clean it, service it, and have it running like it should....I can kick it out the door tomorrow , shipped to your door for 40 bucks....3 day priority......don’t know if that helps, but I’ll throw it out there....I’ll guarantee it’s operation..............email is in my profile....just like to see you get what you want..........Pat..

Deal!!  I will go to your profile and email you!!  However, not meant to be an insult, can you send me some pics first.  Will email you now.

Not an insult at all, I’m at work right now ....I’m semi retired, but I get called in to help the sons out...as soon as I get home, I’ll respond to your email with more pics. Then we’ll go from there.......Pat