Time and again I have seen it written that this engine only operates on the "T" Rail solid track. I recently purchased the original advertising brochure and saw this quote. So what's the story?

Pre/Post war is the way to go!

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Be very careful plunking down big bucks for an early 700E ......if you don’t know what you’re looking at, it easy to get burned......I wouldn’t purchase one of those without having it sitting there in front of me to observe.....and if you’re a novice, have someone with you well versed in those models.....prices on those can go into the stratosphere.......quickly!........Pat

The Water Level Route.......You Can Sleep

There are many variations - tubular track, t track, kit built and so on. I recommend this video set to get an introduction to all of that: https://www.amazon.com/s?k=%22...p;ref=atv_dp_pd_star

For what it is worth, here is a (poorly scanned) copy of the kit instructions hosted by Lionel:

https://www.lionelsupport.com/...5009242014142924.pdf

And finally, if you are a member of the LCCA or otherwise have access to the corresponding catalogs, I'd recommend browsing those as well.

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I agree with the "be cautious" admonition.  As far as I can tell, the 6-18005 model of 1985 or so is almost identical and not susceptible to zinc pest.  You might have to change driver tires and add a few details to get it exact.

High price for a 700E was, I think, $32 grand, sealed in original box.  Imagine - value would drop to four grand if buyer opened the box and found a perfect model - or to zero if more likely he found warped castings.

I think prices have dropped recently anyway.  Too many nice new diecast steam models - hope they don't warp in time.

harmonyards posted:

Be very careful plunking down big bucks for an early 700E ......if you don’t know what you’re looking at, it easy to get burned......I wouldn’t purchase one of those without having it sitting there in front of me to observe.....and if you’re a novice, have someone with you well versed in those models.....prices on those can go into the stratosphere.......quickly!........Pat

FISHERDOC,

          I agree wholeheartedly with harmonyards.  If you want to obtain a pre-war 700E on your own I suggest getting a hold of two great videos on the subject produced and  starring the late Don Hagar who was a true expert on all things Lionel Hudson.  The first is "The Lionel 700E and 763E Hudson Locomotives" which breaks down virtually every aspect of these two engines including valuable tips on how to determine if the engines are deteriorating, year by year historical review of the engines and really good tips on care and maintenance.  The second is entitled "Disassembly and reassembly of the 700E Hudson".  This video provides step by step instructions  on the proper steps in this process.  They were on sale on E-bay for quite some time and that's where I got mine.  I don't believe they are available on there now but you might take a look see.  If not there, I'm sure you would be able to pick them  on some TCA related outlet.

OKHIKER posted:
harmonyards posted:

Be very careful plunking down big bucks for an early 700E ......if you don’t know what you’re looking at, it easy to get burned......I wouldn’t purchase one of those without having it sitting there in front of me to observe.....and if you’re a novice, have someone with you well versed in those models.....prices on those can go into the stratosphere.......quickly!........Pat

FISHERDOC,

          I agree wholeheartedly with harmonyards.  If you want to obtain a pre-war 700E on your own I suggest getting a hold of two great videos on the subject produced and  starring the late Don Hagar who was a true expert on all things Lionel Hudson.  The first is "The Lionel 700E and 763E Hudson Locomotives" which breaks down virtually every aspect of these two engines including valuable tips on how to determine if the engines are deteriorating, year by year historical review of the engines and really good tips on care and maintenance.  The second is entitled "Disassembly and reassembly of the 700E Hudson".  This video provides step by step instructions  on the proper steps in this process.  They were on sale on E-bay for quite some time and that's where I got mine.  I don't believe they are available on there now but you might take a look see.  If not there, I'm sure you would be able to pick them  on some TCA related outlet.

The videos mentioned are already linked above on Amazon Prime Video.

 

bmoran4 posted:

There are many variations - tubular track, t track, kit built and so on. I recommend this video set to get an introduction to all of that: https://www.amazon.com/s?k=%22...p;ref=atv_dp_pd_star

For what it is worth, here is a (poorly scanned) copy of the kit instructions hosted by Lionel:

https://www.lionelsupport.com/...5009242014142924.pdf

And finally, if you are a member of the LCCA or otherwise have access to the corresponding catalogs, I'd recommend browsing those as well.

 

bob2 posted:

I agree with the "be cautious" admonition.  As far as I can tell, the 6-18005 model of 1985 or so is almost identical and not susceptible to zinc pest.  You might have to change driver tires and add a few details to get it exact.

High price for a 700E was, I think, $32 grand, sealed in original box.  Imagine - value would drop to four grand if buyer opened the box and found a perfect model - or to zero if more likely he found warped castings.

I think prices have dropped recently anyway.  Too many nice new diecast steam models - hope they don't warp in time.

Yes, the 6-18005 model Bob is referring to is a fine runner and is a spitting image of the 30’s models. It can be had for not so stupid money, and there  will be way less of a chance of you being burned.....the 6-18005 was made in 1990 usually, 3 or 4 of them surface on the popular auction sites.........Pat

The Water Level Route.......You Can Sleep

harmonyards posted:
bob2 posted:

I agree with the "be cautious" admonition.  As far as I can tell, the 6-18005 model of 1985 or so is almost identical and not susceptible to zinc pest.  You might have to change driver tires and add a few details to get it exact.

High price for a 700E was, I think, $32 grand, sealed in original box.  Imagine - value would drop to four grand if buyer opened the box and found a perfect model - or to zero if more likely he found warped castings.

I think prices have dropped recently anyway.  Too many nice new diecast steam models - hope they don't warp in time.

Yes, the 6-18005 model Bob is referring to is a fine runner and is a spitting image of the 30’s models. It can be had for not so stupid money, and there  will be way less of a chance of you being burned.....the 6-18005 was made in 1990 usually, 3 or 4 of them surface on the popular auction sites.........Pat

Most zinc-alloy die-cast locos never warp. Ever.

The 1990 700E (6-18005) is indeed a fine model, and essentially is the 1930's loco come to life. There can be a problem with the sliding valve guide part: a small boss (pin) on the side is too short to positively engage the hole in the valve gear combination lever (I'll call it; it's correct-ish...). The lever will slip off the guide. The corrected part can often be found on eBay; Lionel has the part for the new 700E (identical). I am not sure if all of the 18005's had the short-boss part or not, and I am not sure what kind of issue it causes when run.  

harmonyards posted:
bob2 posted:

I agree with the "be cautious" admonition.  As far as I can tell, the 6-18005 model of 1985 or so is almost identical and not susceptible to zinc pest.  You might have to change driver tires and add a few details to get it exact.

High price for a 700E was, I think, $32 grand, sealed in original box.  Imagine - value would drop to four grand if buyer opened the box and found a perfect model - or to zero if more likely he found warped castings.

I think prices have dropped recently anyway.  Too many nice new diecast steam models - hope they don't warp in time.

Yes, the 6-18005 model Bob is referring to is a fine runner and is a spitting image of the 30’s models. It can be had for not so stupid money, and there  will be way less of a chance of you being burned.....the 6-18005 was made in 1990 usually, 3 or 4 of them surface on the popular auction sites.........Pat

BTW what is "zinc pest"?

Pre/Post war is the way to go!

fisherdoc posted:

I already have the Century Club big Hudson. Now I see there is another version of this being the 18005? Just how many did Lionel Make? LOL?

Quite a few Hudsons in this family. You are just touching the tip of the ice berg with the two 773’s from the postwar era.....Pat

The Water Level Route.......You Can Sleep

bmoran4 posted:
OKHIKER posted:
harmonyards posted:

Be very careful plunking down big bucks for an early 700E ......if you don’t know what you’re looking at, it easy to get burned......I wouldn’t purchase one of those without having it sitting there in front of me to observe.....and if you’re a novice, have someone with you well versed in those models.....prices on those can go into the stratosphere.......quickly!........Pat

FISHERDOC,

          I agree wholeheartedly with harmonyards.  If you want to obtain a pre-war 700E on your own I suggest getting a hold of two great videos on the subject produced and  starring the late Don Hagar who was a true expert on all things Lionel Hudson.  The first is "The Lionel 700E and 763E Hudson Locomotives" which breaks down virtually every aspect of these two engines including valuable tips on how to determine if the engines are deteriorating, year by year historical review of the engines and really good tips on care and maintenance.  The second is entitled "Disassembly and reassembly of the 700E Hudson".  This video provides step by step instructions  on the proper steps in this process.  They were on sale on E-bay for quite some time and that's where I got mine.  I don't believe they are available on there now but you might take a look see.  If not there, I'm sure you would be able to pick them  on some TCA related outlet.

The videos mentioned are already linked above on Amazon Prime Video.

 

bmoran4 posted:

There are many variations - tubular track, t track, kit built and so on. I recommend this video set to get an introduction to all of that: https://www.amazon.com/s?k=%22...p;ref=atv_dp_pd_star

For what it is worth, here is a (poorly scanned) copy of the kit instructions hosted by Lionel:

https://www.lionelsupport.com/...5009242014142924.pdf

And finally, if you are a member of the LCCA or otherwise have access to the corresponding catalogs, I'd recommend browsing those as well.

 

bmoran4, Whoops.  Sorry to steal your thunder.  My Don Hagar DVDs are boxed orange in color so looked different than the ones you posted.  I just didn't check closely enough.  I bought mine many years ago and were considerably more expensive than the ones through Amazon.  Great instructional DVDs. 

fisherdoc posted:

I already have the Century Club big Hudson. Now I see there is another version of this being the 18005? Just how many did Lionel Make? LOL?

Here is a photo of my 1990 Lionel 6-18005 1-700E J1E NYC Hudson.

 

J1E_Hudson

For a long time, this was my only NYC Hudson engine, scale or otherwise.  It has recently been joined by a Lionel J3A Hudson.

 

Greg

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I bought my Lionel 6-18005 used in ebay and it really runs great. It doesn't have traction tires so it can't pull a long string of varnish. If you're running conventional control the MTH Premiere Proto 1 Scale Hudson MT-3020 can be had for reasonable prices in ebay also and they are great pullers. I picked up mine about 3 years ago new in the box for about $250.00 plus shipping in ebay.

Sueme Valley System

I always loved the look of the 5344 Scale Hudson but when the prices quickly rose from $1000 to over $3000, that was the end of my interest. They are basically 85 yr old shelf queens.   When the 5340 came out that all changed. I was able to purchase two near new condition engines for $450 each and they are 100% American made.   Side by side there is only a minute difference between the 5344 and 5340 and the re-issue runs great smokes well and has nice rail sounds. Manages Gargraves O gauge track real well. On an outside loop on my layout with only sight variations in grade, powered by a PW ZW, those 18005 Hudson's will easily pull 7 NYC aluminum passenger cars, although at around 16 V.

Builder of the Hill Lines ( New Delta Lines). Recreating history for the model RR community.

harmonyards posted:

When the diecast zinc parts begin to crumble apart.......the bodies, the chassis, the wheels, everything made from diecast zinc........

I heard this from a guy who has to much post-war stuff. (like you can ) He once told me that the main reason for zink pest is because the people who melted the metal would through there used cigarets into the melting pot. This would then cause deformities in the metal and when the air tried to get out of the metal, the end result was zinc pest. Now I don't think that would be the case for the cause of zinc pest in the modern stuff but who knows. Also, not too long ago I purchased the 6-18005 "700e" and I can vouch that it is a very nice engine. Runs smooth as silk and looks elegant standing still or running.  

Maybe a little off-topic.  But what's the minimum curve for the 1-700E (18005)?  And what's the minimum curve for the prewar 763E?  As I understand it that one is like a 700E, but with wider wheel treads and the middle drive wheels are blind (un-flanged.)  Thanks!

Creep, coast, and pull.  We're not talking about cold fusion here.

Trainmaster04 posted:
harmonyards posted:

When the diecast zinc parts begin to crumble apart.......the bodies, the chassis, the wheels, everything made from diecast zinc........

I heard this from a guy who has to much post-war stuff. (like you can ) He once told me that the main reason for zink pest is because the people who melted the metal would through there used cigarets into the melting pot. This would then cause deformities in the metal and when the air tried to get out of the metal, the end result was zinc pest. Now I don't think that would be the case for the cause of zinc pest in the modern stuff but who knows. Also, not too long ago I purchased the 6-18005 "700e" and I can vouch that it is a very nice engine. Runs smooth as silk and looks elegant standing still or running.  

I’d think it more likely that the metal was simply not of sufficiently consistent quality. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zinc_pest

Ted S posted:

Maybe a little off-topic.  But what's the minimum curve for the 1-700E (18005)?  And what's the minimum curve for the prewar 763E?  As I understand it that one is like a 700E, but with wider wheel treads and the middle drive wheels are blind (un-flanged.)  Thanks!

The 1-700e has a minimum curve of 042 because, as you said, both the middle drivers and tender wheels are blinde. One variation of the original 700e was made similar to the 1-700e so that it could run on tubular track. For the 763e, I do not remember.  

I bought two 6-18005 scale Hudsons when they were first introduced, one for each of my boys.  One was received a few days before the second arrived.  I intended to keep both sealed but we did open the first.  It ran "ok" but did not live up to its advance billing.  It was really slow.  A friend also received one and his had slightly different paint gloss, so when my second engine arrived I opened that one also so we could compare the paint on all three engines.  I ran both of my engines and used a wheel tach to measure the speeds.  The second engine was about 30% faster than the first, and the first ran much faster backward than forward!  I returned it to Lionel and they replaced the Pull-Mor motor.  When I retested it, it was no better than when I received it.  So I sold it with just a few hours on it.  I also sold the second to a good friend at a significant loss but he does not use it much "since it won't pull much".  (His layout includes a modest grade.)  In my opinion, there are a LOT of much better Hudsons available.

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