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It’s no secret Lionel had to go to a different motor vendor sometime around the introduction of Legacy. I can’t blame Lionel for this problem, as Ametek, the now overly proud owners of Pittman motors priced themselves right out of our hobby. Lionel was not the only mfr. to drop Pittman from its vendor line. MTH had to do some shopping around as well, .....enter the Cannon motor for Lionel. I had no intention of changing out the Cannon from my ESE, until it decided it was time to go. So I had to do something since the locomotive demanded repairs on it’s terms, not mine. ........my ESE developed a loud ( actually horrible sounding ) clicking noise from the motor,.....it stumbled, coughed, and farted, so I hit the panic button, and began investigating......turning the flywheel by hand as best I could, I could here the noise coming from the motor. So, it’s off to the landfill for our friend the Cannon,.....there’s not a lot to report for this swap. Fairly straight forward, a couple minor mods to do, and it’s a bolt in swap. First thing to do is harvest out the dying Cannon. The Cannon and the Pittman share the same bolt pattern, HOWEVER, the mounting holes on the mount & spacer, are just a wee bit too tiny for a 6-32 machine screw to pass through. Easy peasy, the next size up drill bit from the existing holes remedies this quickly. The only specialty tool required that I’d think is necessary is a 1/4” countersinking bit, and I’ll explain why. The encoder bolt holes are designed for the smaller Cannon’s metric screws, so just dusting them off with the countersinking bit allows the 6-32 flat heads to sit flush on the encoder. Take care as this is a PCB with some surface mount goodies. When I say they just need a dusting, that’s about all they need........different models might have different space requirements, however I found with the ESE a Pittman 9433 was the right size to fit in place of the Cannon, .....I’m using model # 9433F686 on this swap, which is an oilite bronze cintered bushing motor....but it is a copper graphite rare earth magnet motor. Plenty of power for the ESE. The flywheel is pretty much a direct swap.I just had to police up the bore where the set screws poked through to get a nice slip fit,.... Then, I just had to be sure to get the basket lined up in the sensor, and spinning freely with no rubbing.....after that, it’s just reverse order of removal, and police up Lionel’s wiring. Not a huge undertaking.....the whole job takes about 1 hour depending on skill level, and it’s back on the road making smiles for miles,....also note I had a blown up switch in all that mess too, .....that’s typical of that particular brand of switch, another quick swap out....

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@RickO posted:

Good to know Pat! When my legacy ESE starts farting. You'll be the first to know.

Looks like some other changes have been made as well. Spoked drivers on the front? A new whistle steam funnel?

Rick, my ESE was actually a preproduction test pilot for the 82537. Never saw much run time, as it was more for getting the aesthetics correct for the catalog. So it indeed does have a pair of spoked axles with Scullin on the mains. Which is fine by me!...as the Central chased chronic crank pin failures. Swapping out driver sets was common practice with whatever was handy and already rebuilt, or new,.....The whistle steam funnel was already there, and may vary from the actual production model.....I picked up my ESE from one of the forum members who advertised it as an unpainted test bed locomotive.....however, it doesn’t excuse the Cannon motor for pooping the bed!...

Pat

@RickO posted:

Interesting!

Hopefully ,if your Loco was a pre-production model. Mine got a better Canon motor in it, Lol!

That I doubt Rick, .....John reports multiple Cannon failures in field, .....there’s a small tang molded in the brush holder of the Cannon that had broken off and was flying around in the top of the motor. This also allowed the brush to get cockeyed and touch other things it shouldn’t .....like the shaft and bearing,.....a dead short going somewhere to happen,....😬

Pat

@Norton posted:

Nothing that small. Merci.

Pierre

This the common Irwin set Lowe’s Pete, ....I’ve had several brands, and Irwin is the best so far, ....they work great on zinc, mild steel, brass and any of the other softer materials,....they’ll tear through plastic like nobody’s business, .....I also use them to clean up holes drilled with a hand drill or the press,.....really makes any drilled hole look like a professional did it with a stamping tool, as opposed to having an angry gnawed on hole,....

Pat67AB7827-CC29-4DFA-B956-F7E27AA334FF      

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Considering Canon motors have become standard in Lionel steam engines for almost a decade now, this would be EXTREMELY helpful to those who have any of those engines. (Myself included)

The recent ESE engines are some of my favorite LEGACY steamers, but I don’t deny that the Canon equipped stuff doesn’t seem to have as good a run life as what came before it. Real bummer, but at least in this case it can be fixed AND improved.

@Norton posted:

I have been using this type. I had a few like yours, probably all dull that would hop around too much and leave a rough finish.

image

Pete

Yep, I have some like that out in the big shop,....they’re so dead they just sit there and look cool,...I’ve found the Irwin set to be made of real deal tool steel, as opposed to cheapy versions made of Chrome Vandium, .....the cheaper ones are fine for wood, or plastics, the tool steel variety cut metals like butter,......just don’t try and cut Iridium with them,....☺️

Pat

@Mikado 4501 posted:

Considering Canon motors have become standard in Lionel steam engines for almost a decade now, this would be EXTREMELY helpful to those who have any of those engines. (Myself included)

The recent ESE engines are some of my favorite LEGACY steamers, but I don’t deny that the Canon equipped stuff doesn’t seem to have as good a run life as what came before it. Real bummer, but at least in this case it can be fixed AND improved.

It’s not to say all Cannon motors are doomed, and I’m extremely bias to a Pittman, ....it’s all I know,....but, I’d reckon light use, like some folks do, and the Cannon will last forever,....in my case, it’s one bad apple spoils the bunch, so to the landfill they go,.......me myself & I will evict all the Cannons in my roster,.....I’m just not taking the chance,......that’s not to say either that a Pittman can’t fail!...they sure can, but in my position, I can repair/rebuild a Pittman with parts in my parts dept. .....I run the death out of my equipment, that’s a proven fact, .....I don’t punish them, but they get used,.....I don’t own shelf queens!...

Pat

So far around of newer Legacy that I've had come through, probably less than 100 units, three have had dead Canon motors.  Two took the RCMC with them, and one I was able to repair the RCMC and return it to service.  Even so, an expensive repair, and a more than 3% failure rate of the Canon motor on newer Legacy locomotives is not all that enviable a reliability figure.

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