Lionel American Freedom Train Car Production

Click this link for some good info on the 1975-76 AFT consist.

Hopefully, Lionel has more AFT offerings in the making soon.  Because even with 13 cars thus far, they haven't announced an observation car to end the train properly yet.  

David

I made a chart of the AFT consist a while back to see what cars I would need to build/have built to complete the consist in O gauge.  I added a column for the Lionel cars.  The MTH cars are the baggage cars from their fake AFT set which work for the storage cars.

Scrapiron Scher posted:

Yikes, did the catalogue announce all of those at the same time or was it in several catalogues?

Scrappy

All at one time spread over pages 42 & 43 of the 2017 Signature Catalog.

Please provide the Lionel SKU's for the two Showcase Cars #40/#41 that have X's in the Lionel column.  When were these built?

Rocky Mountaineer posted:

Please provide the Lionel SKU's for the two Showcase Cars #40/#41 that have X's in the Lionel column.  When were these built?

That is what I get for doing things in a hurry.  Corrected.

Thanks Ron.  I thought I had missed something along the way!  I do hope Lionel makes those though, as they'd be nice addition to the train.

David 

Big Jim posted:

Scrapiron Scher posted:

Yikes, did the catalogue announce all of those at the same time or was it in several catalogues?

Scrappy

All at one time spread over pages 42 & 43 of the 2017 Signature Catalog.

Actually, the AFT 4449, AFT T1, Station Sounds Car, 4-pack, and the first 2-pack were first catalogued in the 2016 Signature Catalog (pages 44-45).  Two more 2-packs were added in the 2016 Vol. 2 Catalog (pages 74-75), and the 4th 2-pack was added in the 2017 Signature catalog.

I had the chance to run the Station Sounds Car at my club meeting last Wednesday, and I was really impressed with the variety of announcements and music clips it plays.  I think it will be a big hit at shows when I can run the whole consist.

I'm REALLY hoping Lionel gets at least the showcase and observation cars cataloged soon.  I'm also hoping for the auxillary tender that was converted into a tool car and ran behind the T1.  I know they were also considering the flat cars that carried the service vehicles and the various booths and mobile offices that traveled with the train.  I hope they do them ALL!

Andy

Andy Hummell posted:

...

I'm REALLY hoping Lionel gets at least the showcase and observation cars cataloged soon.  I'm also hoping for the auxillary tender that was converted into a tool car and ran behind the T1.  I know they were also considering the flat cars that carried the service vehicles and the various booths and mobile offices that traveled with the train.  I hope they do them ALL!

...

Agreed on all fronts!!!

And as an added bonus, it's been a few years if I'm not mistaken since Lionel has offered a Legacy Texas-class 2-10-4 locomotive.  So that would also make a cool -- but certainly not high-priority -- addition to Lionel's latest group of the AFT offerings.  If I'm not mistaken, I think those 2-10-4 locomotives had the cylinder-steam feature too.

David

Andy Hummell posted:

....  I had the chance to run the Station Sounds Car at my club meeting last Wednesday, and I was really impressed with the variety of announcements and music clips it plays.  I think it will be a big hit at shows when I can run the whole consist.   ....

Hands down... this round of StationSounds Cars gets the "show-stopper" award of this round of production.  Lionel gets an A+++ for bringing these back with such great execution after MUCH too lengthy a hiatus when the TMCC versions were retired.

David

Totaly agree with Andy.  The sound car is a real show stopper, and the flat cars are a must for all us followers of the AFT.

Jack

You would think that the flat cars and others not produced by K-Line would be no-brainers considering the number of people out there that have the K-Line sets and, while not interested in the Lionel production duplicating the cars they already have, might be interested in adding these to their consist.

Andy

Andy I agree 100% . I would a love AFT flat cars and other cars not already produced . The Lionel cars a very nice but I am very happy with K Line cars. 

Got mine. Ro forgot my stationsosunds car though. I bought them with the expectation of being able to purchase the entire train. Hopefully Lionel follows through with their promise to produce everything. 

Received the last of my AFT cars today; all 13 are on the living room floor.  Need to exam them for flaws, take pictures, and put on the shelf.

I would really think Lionel will do the two Showcase Cars.  They already have the mold for the second power car, so we should see that.  The four remaining crew cars, the tool car, and the flatcars I think will require new molds for Lionel.  It would be neat if Lionel did an 85' flatcar since it can be produced for many different railroads.

CAPPilot posted:

....  The four remaining crew cars, the tool car, and the flatcars I think will require new molds for Lionel.  ....

This is where my thinking differs from many folks out there who insist on 1:48 true scale modeling.  Neither approach is right or wrong though. 

Frankly, I'd be just as happy if Lionel used existing 18" heavyweight passenger car tooling for the remaining crew cars in AFT livery, or 21" streamlined passenger car tooling to match the StationSounds crew car from this most recent production run.   Existing tooling could also be used for the flatcars (albeit shorter than 85' to complete the train in a reasonable amount of time.  And I wouldn't fault Lionel one iota for those choices.  We've already seen some simple "artistic license" for the AFT Entrance Car #100.  So the precedence has been set for compromise.  The two Showcase Cars, however, would require new tooling.  And if those are the last two cars we see for the AFT because of that, then I'd be OK with that too.  Better late then never, as they say.

I just wouldn't want scale fidelity of these add-on cars to result in another "Atlas-O California Zephyr" timeline.  I held out for that ONCE in this lifetime (because there was no other choice but to wait it out).  And honestly, it wouldn't be worth it to wait that long again for ANYTHING.    So if the above "compromises" allow Lionel to finish the AFT by 1H2019 (that's one year away give or take a few months), then bring them on!!! 

David

Rocky Mountaineer posted:

CAPPilot posted:

....  The four remaining crew cars, the tool car, and the flatcars I think will require new molds for Lionel.  ....

I just wouldn't want scale fidelity of these add-on cars to result in another "Atlas-O California Zephyr" timeline.  

David,

I agree with you on that.  While I may be a bit more patient I don't want my heirs accepting my pre-ordered crew cars.

I'm not a rivet counter but I do want things to look right.  Using an 18" passenger car for the crew cars to me would be better than using the new 21" cars.  Lionel's 18" heavyweight cars would work but I personally don't want the clerestory roofs on these cars.  I think it would be great if Lionel made a round roof for their 18" HW cars similar to what GGD did for its HW cars.  For GGD, this relatively simple change "modernized" its HW cars and added a whole new product line for its customers.  Lionel hasn't changed its HW design in decades; this modification would be good and I think folks would buy it.  Plus this would be a good basis for our AFT crew cars.  

What Lionel really needs for a lot of their customers are lightweight 18" passenger cars.  Since the demise of the aluminum cars, this has been a hole in their product line.  This type of car would also work for the AFT, although I don't see this happening anytime soon if ever. (NOTE: a HW car with a round roof would actually be better for an AFT car.)

However, as you pointed out the 21" cars are here now.  I'd prefer those over the 18" HW cars with the clerestory roof.

As for flat cars, I think Lionel's longest is the PS-4 which is a little less than scale 60'.  This would work for me.  Lionel is now making a 86' boxcar so it doesn't seem like much of a stretch for them to make a longer flat car, but this would be even less likely than a new 18" LW passenger car.

At this point I think Lionel already knows what they are going to produce and when.  It is now a matter of sitting back, relaxing, and waiting to see what shows up.

I would love them to make the whole set and will buy if they do so. However I Have my doubts the Lionel T1 will pull the whole train especially on grades. I  have what's out to date.

dk122trains posted:

I would love them to make the whole set and will buy if they do so. However I Have my doubts the Lionel T1 will pull the whole train especially on grades. I  have what's out to date.

In many pictures of the real AFT there is a diesel behind the steamer.  There was some debate as to whether or not the real AFT steamers needed a helper engine, so they were probably there either for free advertising for the host road or insurance purposes.

Don, do you have the Legacy version of the T1?  Lionel has produced a few diesels in bicentennial colors that might work well with your T1.  There was a Legacy BN U30C a while back, and the more recent EL SD45 and Cotton Belt SD45T-2.  Maybe one of these will run well with your T1.

Here are some photos off the web that may help.  These are of 4449; the T1 used diesels as well.

CAPPilot posted:

Here are some photos off the web that may help.

This photo is not of the American Freedom Train, but the 1977 move returning 4449 back to the city of Portland, OR. This was billed & sold as the Amtrak Transcontinental Steam Excursion, primarily from Birmingham, AL to Portland, OR.

Hot Water posted:

CAPPilot posted:

Here are some photos off the web that may help.

This photo is not of the American Freedom Train, but the 1977 move returning 4449 back to the city of Portland, OR. This was billed & sold as the Amtrak Transcontinental Steam Excursion, primarily from Birmingham, AL to Portland, OR.

Thanks.  Deleted it above as well as from my AFT Diesels folder.

Cap that will have to be the plan on my RR.

Many, many thanks to all of you who contributed to this thread. I have learned much about the train. I believe I shall never get over having missed it in real life. Sigh . .

Scrappy

This is as far from my own layout's concept as possible and still be in the same scale, but I really like the idea of this in O scale. I saw the train before I turned 7, in my hometown, and got to see 4449 again in the red/white/blue paint in 2002. I've even attended one of the freedom train crew reunions. In the first shot this is one of the reunions. I'm sitting with my back to the camera, in the foreground, in a green shirt nd grey cap, just left of the wheelchair (Doyle is to the extreme left, in a red shirt). It was very interesting getting to talk to all those people. I finally got to meet Ross and thank him for all the work he'd done on the train (and get him and Doyle to sign my copy of "All Aboard America").

As for the other two shots, that is the train in my hometown of Tallahassee Florida, Thanksgiving week, 1976, near the end of the nationwide tour. After many years of searching for photographs taken at that location, I finally found a few. Sadly, all the tracks are gone from that location now and you'd never be able to tell there'd been tracks there. This was on a track circling the south side of Doak Campbell stadium at Florida State University. It's a road now.

HUGE fan of that train!

I saw the 4449 AFT as a school field trip, when I was 10 years old, in November of 1976 at Hunter Army Airfield in Savannah.  I love the engine and train...it is a memory I will never forget.

Just received the following Lionel AFT cars (all brand new):

6-83111 - American Freedom Train 21" Passenger Car 4-Pack (Exhibit Cars 101,102,103;  Power Car 111 with generator sounds)
6-83116 - American Freedom Train 21" Passenger Car 2-Pack (Exhibit cars 104 & 105)
6-83119 - American Freedom Train 21" StationSounds Exhibit Car (Sleeper Car 201)
6-83589 - American Freedom Train 2-Pack #1 (Exhibit Cars 106 & 107)
6-83592 - American Freedom Train 2-Pack #2 (Exhibit Cars 108 & 109)
6-84226 - American Freedom Train Add-On 2-Pack #4 (Exhibit Cars 100 & 110)

I noticed the pack numbers in their catalog do not agree with what they put on the boxes. According to the boxes, the pack numbers are:

6-83589 - American Freedom Train 2-Pack #2 (Exhibit Cars 106 & 107)
6-83592 - American Freedom Train 2-Pack #3 (Exhibit Cars 108 & 109)
6-84226 - American Freedom Train Add-On 2-Pack #4 (Exhibit Cars 100 & 110)

Not sure which to believe. Since both pack numbering systems skip one number, I'm presuming there's more to be produced?

I talked to Lionel at the last two Yorks about the remaining AFT cars and they were very non-committal.  Only comment was the cars are not a priority.  Hopefully this was not code for "we will never produce them".

CAPPilot posted:

I talked to Lionel at the last two Yorks about the remaining AFT cars and they were very non-committal.  Only comment was the cars are not a priority.  Hopefully this was not code for "we will never produce them".

As a general rule, you won't find most companies confirming/denying what their future production items might be. Hopefully if their current AFT items sell well maybe they will realize there's an interest for all the remaining cars.

Now if I could find the "showcase" cars.