LIONEL ANNOUNCES A NEW 2018 VISIONLINE LOCOMOTIVE....!!!

Sounds cool!  Especially the simulated water spray from the pick-up scoop.

Just curious, but why does it state "All New"? I don't believer that this is the absolute very first time Lionel has ever issued a NYC Niagara model, is it?

Where is the depleting coal load?

PATSTRAINS posted:

Where is the depleting coal load?

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And the operating front coupler?

-Greg 

Hot Water posted:

Just curious, but why does it state "All New"? I don't believer that this is the absolute very first time Lionel has ever issued a NYC Niagara model, is it?

It’s all new technology and drive train from the previous century club offering.

dk122trains posted:

Hot Water posted:

Just curious, but why does it state "All New"? I don't believer that this is the absolute very first time Lionel has ever issued a NYC Niagara model, is it?

It’s all new technology and drive train from the previous century club offering.

The original had a Pittman motor. I don't think Lionel has used Pittmans in quite a few years. The rest of the drive train had a nothing to be desired. Weak driveshaft and undersize gears. The metal replacement gears are an improvement but still a fraction of the size used in the previous US made engines.

Pete

I would bet this is going to be a great locomotive.    It will blow the old Century version out of the water.   Ryan Kunkle will do a great job making this happen.

Looks great!  Hope to check it out at the Lionel display at York this afternoon.   Wonder when it will ship?

Interesting that it can run using the Lionchief command set via the lionchief universal remote or via the bluetooth lionchief app, until now they have kept the two lines separate. Lionchief was (to me) the intro to command control, and with an engine this big and complicated I would expect that someone buying it already would be a legacy user given how expensive this likely will be. Do they think that there are people with the means to buy an engine that likely will be 1500 bucks+, but who like the simplicity of lion chief control? Or do they think a lionchief user would buy this, see how much they are missing by not using legacy, and upgrade? This is merely curiousity (I love the look of the engine, and it is an NYC, but doubt I can do that kind of outlay at this point), not a negative statement in any way, I always think it doesn't hurt to try and broaden the base. 

bigkid posted:

Interesting that it can run using the Lionchief command set via the lionchief universal remote or via the bluetooth lionchief app, until now they have kept the two lines separate. Lionchief was (to me) the intro to command control, and with an engine this big and complicated I would expect that someone buying it already would be a legacy user given how expensive this likely will be. Do they think that there are people with the means to buy an engine that likely will be 1500 bucks+, but who like the simplicity of lion chief control? Or do they think a lionchief user would buy this, see how much they are missing by not using legacy, and upgrade? This is merely curiousity (I love the look of the engine, and it is an NYC, but doubt I can do that kind of outlay at this point), not a negative statement in any way, I always think it doesn't hurt to try and broaden the base. 

In my case, I run everything.   I have postwar, Legacy, vision line, TMCC, Railking DCS and Premier DCS, and Lionchief Plus locos.

The ability to just pickup the universal Lionchief remote, should the mood strike, and take the Niagara around the layout next to one of my Lionchief + is appealing.   Same reason I converted all my postwar diesels to TMCC.

While I normally use my Legacy remote to run my Legacy equipment, the way my layout is designed, often times I like to just watch the trains go around the 3 loops I have.  No need to activate all of the features all the time.  Yes, I but these Legacy and Vision because of the features but I don't use them every session.

MartyE posted:

I dunno.  I've looked at it 3 times now.  The taking on water feature looks too directional and more like weed spraying to me.

Rusty

I may or may not pick up this engine since I would still like a vision line Engine someday, more than likely won't be, since I probably won't be able to spend the money on it as my wife will more than likely veto it. I was hoping to get the Scale Polar Express, but she said no to that one. 

The only thing I can possibly say is maybe the smoke "mimicking" the water spray would look better at higher speeds closer to the stated 80 mph speed, or as close as we can get in scale miles per hour, listed about the Niagara.

I think the technology to simulate the water scoop spray could have been put to better use in  perfecting steam effects from the steam chest. Lionel has been trinkering with steam chest effects off and on for years.

in any event I will stick with my CCII Niagara.  It has been overhauled twice by the Alex Malliae shops - once for four chuffs, sound improvements, and smoke improvements , and again earlier this year for replacement of the plastic gears and installation of a super chuffer.

 Thanks 

Richard Gonzales 

what is the min radius?

tangoman posted:

what is the min radius?

O-54 for sure maybe O-42 but not likely

superwarp1 posted:

tangoman posted:

what is the min radius?

O-54 for sure maybe O-42 but not likely

Since it is a big 4-8-4, I would bet on 072 minimum.

Hot Water posted:

superwarp1 posted:

tangoman posted:

what is the min radius?

O-54 for sure maybe O-42 but not likely

Since it is a big 4-8-4, I would bet on 072 minimum.

During the FaceBook presentation someone asked that question. The answer given was 072. 

Hot Water posted:

superwarp1 posted:

tangoman posted:

what is the min radius?

O-54 for sure maybe O-42 but not likely

Since it is a big 4-8-4, I would bet on 072 minimum.

Yeah you could be right on that one.  Hot, have you listen to the whistle?  Right for NYC?

superwarp1 posted:

Hot Water posted:

superwarp1 posted:

tangoman posted:

what is the min radius?

O-54 for sure maybe O-42 but not likely

Since it is a big 4-8-4, I would bet on 072 minimum.

Yeah you could be right on that one.  Hot, have you listen to the whistle?  Right for NYC?

The whistle does seem fairly close, but Lionel has been getting way too involved with "reverb", in my opinion.  Guess that is another "feature" of Legacy and "Vision Line" stuff.

Ho Hum !!

Hot Water posted:

superwarp1 posted:

Hot Water posted:

superwarp1 posted:

tangoman posted:

what is the min radius?

O-54 for sure maybe O-42 but not likely

Since it is a big 4-8-4, I would bet on 072 minimum.

Yeah you could be right on that one.  Hot, have you listen to the whistle?  Right for NYC?

The whistle does seem fairly close, but Lionel has been getting way too involved with "reverb", in my opinion.  Guess that is another "feature" of Legacy and "Vision Line" stuff.

It’s sounds just like my ESE Hudson, so that’s why I’m asking.

superwarp1 posted:

It’s sounds just like my ESE Hudson, so that’s why I’m asking.

Well, in the long run, it should. NYC used only Nathan 5/6 chime whistles on most of their steam locomotives, so most of the passenger assigned locomotives should sound the same. I do recall the "unusual" whistle on the L3 and L4 Mohawks did sound different, but MTH sure got that sound correct on their models of the L4 locomotives, for what it's worth.

Guys, my observation of this locomotive today was that it is a very well done locomotive.    I got to spend time with Ryan and Dave today at York and I learned about this great locomotive.  I checked it out with my friend Alex and he should be posting a few video clips.  This locomotive in my opinion is the one to have.  It should beat up on the Century locomotive with plastic gears.  Pricing has not been established yet and whatever it is, I am in.  My hat is off to Ryan Kunkle for doing a great job.

In my opinion, it was a mistake to show this engine before a final production sample was available.  Cosmetically, the engine running today was missing some details.  With 5 smoke units and the new effects, I wouldn't be surprised with a $2100 street price.  If it were me selling one, I think showing off an actual copy of the engine customers would be receiving would be better for sales.

Regardless, Lionel picked the perfect engine to try out the new features as the Niagara was the penultimate steamer in the eyes of many.  I just hope they nail it for everyone's sake.

-Greg 

I can't recall the crowd reaction to new products being unveiled at York in the past.

It sure was uncomfortably quiet when Ryan removed the sheet, I think I heard crickets chirping.

I thought there would have been some more excitement....applause.... or something.

RickO posted:

I can't recall the crowd reaction to new products being unveiled at York in the past.

It sure was uncomfortably quiet when Ryan removed the sheet, I think I heard crickets chirping.

I thought there would have been some more excitement....applause.... or something.

The unveiling was at 4:30, after a long day of walking......some of the guys were ready to take a nap (some did)

https://www.facebook.com/Lione...s/10156803077958345/

The engine was being run all day long.   All one needed to do was to go to the Lionel booth to see it run.

Richard Gonzales posted:

I think the technology to simulate the water scoop spray could have been put to better use in  perfecting steam effects from the steam chest. Lionel has been trinkering with steam chest effects off and on for years.

 Thanks 

Richard Gonzales 

I agree.  

The pop off valves steam effect - is it in any of the videos?  I couldn't see it.  

And not sure I understand the water spray effect?  If it's supposed to simulate the blast of water off the sides of the locomotive as its scoop sucks up water out of the in-track pan, I don't see how this in-line group of individual chemical spray nozzles looking feature accomplishes that?  Maybe they'll consider retooling and putting in steam chest - it would be SO much nicer. And I'd buy two of these, just like the Vision Challenger and BB.  

All in all, I'm glad Lionel keeps trying to push the envelope with innovation, even if it sometimes leaves us scratching our heads...

WOW!!!!....a tough crowd for sure!  I saw the locomotive yesterday and I thought it was beautiful...but again, it doesn't take much to get me excited about new features that add visual "candy".  This locomotive from Lionel creates the feeling of being "alive"....much like a prototype steamer!  I like it!!

Alan

Looks to to me like Lionel did excellent work in modeling the tender.  It may look like " weed spraying" but these tenders seem to have had some overfill release in the form of expansion chamber vents.  Consider, when you take water "on the fly" there is no one standing on top of the tender to divert intake when the tank is full.  In any event, this appears to be what Lionel modeled in the Niagara.  I really like the pop off valve feature with the corresponding hissing steam sound effect as well.  I will be in the market for this model!

If you check out the longer video in the other thread, it doesn't look like that to me.  But  maybe there's various modes, settings or other tune-able aspects that the team can tweak.  It is a demo engine after all...

The 14 minute video counts 5 nozzles down each side of the tender but the above photo shows there were actually six - deal killer!    Best new feature is the pop off valve with hissing sound.  Having spent considerable time around Union Pacific 844 I appreciate there are more sounds coming from a steam locomotive than chuffing and the hissing steam effect adds significantly to the realism of these models.  Good work, Lionel!!

Actually, I think this is the best new feature:

I really like the look of the tender and the water scoop spray..in my opinion, in order to get the desired impact the smoke needs to be pushed out with enough force  hit the ground/roadbed....I wonder if they could use a more powerful fan?..who knows but I like the concept

Brian

I hope the new model is a big hit so we don't have to endure a lot of controversy. The water scoop feature looks nothing like what I have seen in videos. Hope all this stuff works. Out of my price range, for sure.

Greg Houser posted:

In my opinion, it was a mistake to show this engine before a final production sample was available.  Cosmetically, the engine running today was missing some details.  With 5 smoke units and the new effects, I wouldn't be surprised with a $2100 street price.  If it were me selling one, I think showing off an actual copy of the engine customers would be receiving would be better for sales. ...

 

Here's a novel idea... wouldn't it have been really cool if Lionel announced this model with delivery available immediately.  That's right, I said IMMEDIATELY.  With all the new steam features here, Lionel would have to know folks would want one because the fun factor is so high.  Enough with the BTO nonsense already.   Instead, we need to endure a few more months of waiting to see the price until next year's 2018 Signature Catalog is published.  Then several more months to a year from now for actual delivery.

Just would have been nice to see it and buy it!

David

P.S.  For those not at York to grab a copy of the preview brochure, looks like Lionel plans to offer the Niagara in several road numbers, including an art-deco styled, "greyhound" 20th Century Limited version, and another road number available exclusive thru the LCCA.

Here's a novel idea... wouldn't it have been really cool if Lionel announced this model with delivery available immediately.  That's right, I said IMMEDIATELY.

I don't think we are going to see those days again.

The last two newly made Lionel items I bought were impulse purchases. If they had not be immediately available to order, I would not have them.
But what do I know, Lionel seems to be successful with their strategy.

One would think that steam that would alternating from the cylinders when the engine starts moving would be much more of an "Eye Candy", that smoke billowing from the sides of the Tender, looking like it's on fire as oppose to a refill from the Track Pans.....This was a subject well discussed by Hot Water a few years ago, especially when Lionel 1st came out with smoke from the steam chests, that looked like all of the piston rod packing glands had blown out, enlieu of steam sequentially ejecting from the cylinder bottoms, as do when a real locomotive starts up, and moving...............For a Fact Company will always give you something you don't want........Just Maybe they should try a C&O K-3A Mikado, or  NYC H10 a/b Mikado....But no in asking for either of these Great Mikados one would get another run of the USRA Mikado, in Lt or Hvy Versions, because they would have to think out of the Box to come up with one or the other....................Just Sayin!