Lionel Backshop 691BACKFIX new PCB {makes command only} versus replacement motherboard, also wants parts drawings, schematic

In testing my recently purchased backshop, I found that the roll up doors were binding because the corrugated plastic material had hardened with age, becoming stiff and discolored, so brittle that they snapped into shards. I undid the four screws holding the motor in place and lifted it above the rack gears for test purposes, and the motor itself operates correctly in command mode when the direction button is pushed to activate it. The sound comes on and it responds to the limit switches if I manually activate them. If I hold the drive gear simulating a jam, the motor reverses direction. The machine sounds turn on and off using aux1+9 for on and aux1+8 for off, but the machines run all the time, so I suspect their driver has failed.

Does anybody know of a source for the corrugated plastic to make replacement roll up doors?

regards, Paul

The 691BACKFIX is a PCB I designed, it eliminates all the electronics that caused issues with the Backshop. The new PCB is basically a motherboard that uses a DCDR (6 amp motor driver) to operate the doors up and down, an R2LC to turn the smoke unit on/off (smoke unit gets upgraded like my video for the 610-8057-200 fan driven units). It turns the machines on and off using the headlight output (AUX2/AUX2). Lights are on all the time, Doors are opened and closed using throttle (with a max speed setting so you get a constant speed up and down). The limit switches are repurposed to prevent overdriving the doors. It is a Lionel installation only upgrade because I never had the time to write a detailed manual. This kit is not available for sale (to the best of my knowledge). It essentially makes the backshop behave like a TMCC 1 loco, it will not operate in a conventional mode, command only.......

Thanks,
Mike

Paul,

I just received the 691-BACK FIX kit.  It came with a very detailed 22 page manual explaining how to install it. I'd be happy to scan the document and send it to you via email.  My email address is in my profile.  Or send me your address and I'll send a hardcopy to you.  Good luck. I've had the backshop for years and love it.....when it's working!  I added fluorescent lighting from Miller Engineering and  LED lighting and figures including the welders....

ToledoEd posted:

Paul,

I just received the 691-BACK FIX kit.  It came with a very detailed 22 page manual explaining how to install it. I'd be happy to scan the document and send it to you via email.  My email address is in my profile.  Or send me your address and I'll send a hardcopy to you.  Good luck. I've had the backshop for years and love it.....when it's working!  I added fluorescent lighting from Miller Engineering and  LED lighting and figures including the welders....

When you say you just received the Fix Kit can I ask who you received it from?  I also have an original backshop and this is very interesting to me. 

Dean, Lionel customer service. Back story:  , I was having difficulty with my Backshop overtime, buying replacement boards etc. When it finally stopped working altogether I sent all my Boards to Lionel customer service. Dean offered to check them out.  Turns out, when I last purchased an "upgrade" it was not the 691- BACK-FIX.  Dean had parts send me the kit.  Not sure if they are in stock, or built for this particular circumstance....  Hope this helps.

Chris: After writing my post here late last night, I went to www.lionel.com and ordered the 691BACKFIX kit, paying for it with a credit card. I got an acknowledgement of order email this morning that it is shipping. I didn't actually speak to anybody; it was listed like any other part.

ToledoEd, the fluorescent lighting from Miller Engineering looks good. I will plan to add that and the welder figures. As long as my kit includes the same 22 pages of instructions I should be all set, but i do appreciate the offer to scan yours and email them to me. In the meantime, I will be looking for replacement corrugated material to fix the doors. Mine shattered into shards as the material had hardened and become brittle.

Mike R.,  Not knowing anything about the 691BACKFIX kit, I was just guessing that if somebody did design an upgrade to the original electronics that they would make the doors respond to the red throttle knob exactly the way you redesigned it {and the other functions too}. Good job; it makes operating it more interactive for the user.

I did see the Youtube video where one owner has added additional machine sounds......

I actually work full time in a locomotive repair shop that very much resembles this building, doing repairs and restoration work on steam and vintage diesel locomotives and passenger coaches. The enginehouse even has the same style roll up doors and similar roofline.

Thank you all for your responses. Regards, Paul

Paul, glad to hear the kit is available.  I haven't installed mine yet as my Cab2 is with Lionel for repairs. Sure would appreciate your posting a short video when you get it installed.  I installed the fluorescent  lighting in the machine side of the building. The lights above the track are LEDs.  I have fluorescent lighting in another part of my layout and it interferes with the TMCC signal to the engines.  

https://youtu.be/SaUXn_SfWyQ

I'm sad to say, Lionel seems to be out of these kits (The 691BackFIX) and the only search I keep coming up with is Trainz which is also out. I bought a 3rd hand (might really  be 5th hand) backshop and have gone through it as best I can. Most likely the original mainboard is toast. Even though I'm pretty decent with electronics and replaced all the replaceable components (TIP122s, SMT 3904 and 3906) transistors, the one thing I cannot replace is the PIC processor because I lack the original firmware. On it, every single in and out pin is sitting at 5V no matter what I do except for the 2 manual control inputs when you trigger (ground) them. The R2LC 05 is dead, the 103 reverse board appears dead even with testing, the Signal sounds board actually was dead (caps had even swollen to the point of near bursting) however, the sound chips installed in another signal sounds board works and if you use the original ss PIC processor (meaning using a normal PIC SS horn VS using the "special code" backshop version), blowing the horn gives one sound and the bell gives the other sound (motors for the door sound VS machine shop sounds). Does anyone have one of these kits (The TMCC upgrade type by Mike) by chance? Buying the OEM style "upgrade" mainboard set from Lionel is a bit pricey (roughly $165 all said) but they have the parts in stock. I'm also torn between honestly kind of wanting the option for conventional control (and thus needing a working original style mainboard and 103E unit minimally) VS going all command control. I've studied pictures of the fix kit board and get 99% of what is going on there based on the traces from the R2LC pinout. I think it's just using the limit switches in NC state to connect the PWM forward and Reverse from the 2RLC to the DCDR, Smoke unit on he obvious R2LC smoke unit output, and then using the lights? to control the relay? to run the machinery portion. That then begs the question, I think the serial data line to original signal sounds is used- so what's the magic there? Is it special R2LC code version that is sending a custom serial data to the original Signalsounds board? Meaning, if I had even a hint of the schematic, I probably could build one of these boards on my own- luckily this forum contains key pinouts for most of these, but there are some hidden things that without a working set of boards, I'm kind of left guessing.

Trying to reverse engineer this board from following traces through both sides just isn't getting me very far. Example is, the backstop signal sounds board can and randomly will boot up on making sounds, even though the R2LC is dead, the 103 board is doing nothing, nothing responds, but the sounds enable?? Hence kind of my questions of how the sounds board is triggered. I would think serial data, but swapping in normal diesel boards and a known working R2LC08 board means you can blow the horn and bell. But then if the R2LC serial data is just straight to the SS board, then how did conventional operation work in this system? I would have guessed a passthrough the PIC on the OEM mainboard between the R2LC and the SS board but the results and testing tell me that's not right? Sorry for all the questions, it's just a nightmare. My guess is, either the SS backstop pic (the 8 pin DIP on the SS board) is either dead or works on different serial codes than normal horn and bell (provided by a proper C05 code R2LC) or, it's simply high or low or somehow, in the signal sounds pinout, there are other pins used to triggers sounds? Worse, are they not even doing that and applying a DC offset to the AC input like classic conventional horn and bell?

Mikado posted:

The 691BACKFIX is a PCB I designed, it eliminates all the electronics that caused issues with the Backshop. The new PCB is basically a motherboard that uses a DCDR (6 amp motor driver) to operate the doors up and down, an R2LC to turn the smoke unit on/off (smoke unit gets upgraded like my video for the 610-8057-200 fan driven units). It turns the machines on and off using the headlight output (AUX2/AUX2). Lights are on all the time, Doors are opened and closed using throttle (with a max speed setting so you get a constant speed up and down). The limit switches are repurposed to prevent overdriving the doors. It is a Lionel installation only upgrade because I never had the time to write a detailed manual. This kit is not available for sale (to the best of my knowledge). It essentially makes the backshop behave like a TMCC 1 loco, it will not operate in a conventional mode, command only.......

Thanks,

Mikado posted:

The 691BACKFIX is a PCB I designed, it eliminates all the electronics that caused issues with the Backshop. The new PCB is basically a motherboard that uses a DCDR (6 amp motor driver) to operate the doors up and down, an R2LC to turn the smoke unit on/off (smoke unit gets upgraded like my video for the 610-8057-200 fan driven units). It turns the machines on and off using the headlight output (AUX2/AUX2). Lights are on all the time, Doors are opened and closed using throttle (with a max speed setting so you get a constant speed up and down). The limit switches are repurposed to prevent overdriving the doors. It is a Lionel installation only upgrade because I never had the time to write a detailed manual. This kit is not available for sale (to the best of my knowledge). It essentially makes the backshop behave like a TMCC 1 loco, it will not operate in a conventional mode, command only.......

Thanks,
Mike

HELLO Mike, it's good to see that you are still active on the forum. You may not remember this but when you were in Ohio, I brought my Lionel back shop and you converted it to TMCC for me.  You and Phil always treated me royally when I brought engines to be converted to TMCC, sound and your smoke unit (Weaver and 3rd Rail).

Best wishes for continued success.

Bart Zuccala

Murrysville, PA