Lionel Challenger 6-11220 from 2010 Production Run

In addition to the two speakers in the tender. The VL challenger also has one in the boiler of the locomotive as well, creating a stereo sound effect. 

That tether connects the speaker in the boiler of the locomotive to the audio boards in the tender.

SPEAKER TETHER / LOCO / VISIO CHALL use 6108361141

Aha!   Thanks RickO!  And the usual electronic connector (I can't think of its name) is banded to the top of the drawbar?

That's the I.nfra R.ed transmitter banded to the top of the drawbar.

RickO, thanks a bunch for your info. 

I saw on a listing of this model that there is a required battery; does anyone know if that is true and where it is placed and what it is used for??

A 9v battery is optional on most if not all legacy /vl locos up until the past few years when Lionel has omitted the battery connector.( Having said that, the plug in port for the battery is still on the board and Gunrunner John has developed a BCR that can be used in this port on newer Lionel.)

The battery is used to keep the sound functioning in a conventional environment during direction changes.

Typically, in a command envioronment the 9v battery is not needed.

 However, It can also help when there are  larger power breaks in the track, usually over turnouts that may cause the sound to drop out.

Some brands of track have bigger "dead spots" on turnouts than others. I myself have a fastrack layout and have never had any sound dropouts on any of my Legacy /Tmcc stuff so I've never needed to install the battery in the tender.

Having said all that. There was an issue with the sound boards that when using the optional 9v battery. The boards would stay powered up and drain the battery. Lionel implemented a "fix' and Challenger owners could remove and send the boards in to be repaired. 

Info on that here ( scroll down): https://www.lionelsupport.com/...0&productNumber=

If your running command on your layout. I'd get the loco and if you lose sound over turnouts then consider a battery or BCR option. You'll probably want to determine if the boards had the "fix" and go from there.

Answered my own question; found the owners manual at the Lionel website; yes, there is a 9volt battery in the tender; also found that there is a bug in the 3 boards in the tender where even though the loco is powered down, the boards drain the 9volt battery; this results in a loss of sound over dead spots in the track or over switch track; the fix is send the boards back to Lionel to be re-programmed.  Wonder if a YLB would be another solution?

Update: OOPS RickO, while I was doing my research and smithing my message above, you graciously answered; many thanks!! 

RickM46 posted:

  Wonder if a YLB would be another solution?

I would like to think so. Thats Gunrunnerjohns baby of course I'm sure he would know.

Where is he anyway? |LOL. He should have already chimed in on this, he's the expert.

Thanks again RickO, see my update above.  Since I run in Command environment and with Fastrack, then there would be no sound drop; am seriously considering the 2010 Challenger if I can get it for a reasonable price.

I say go for it Rick. IMO the early Legacy and VL stuff is still some of Lionels best to date. The sound packages are a bit more unique and the build quality seems better as well. 

If you have any issues with the sound/sound board I'm sure you can easily sort them out here. Worst case scenario, thats a Mike Reagan era Lionel loco. An email to him will surely get answers.

I agree; being a Mike Reagan loco, I am sure if there are any problems, he would come thru.  Am considering a few that are on the bay - one has the sound board fix.

Just for the heck of it, I dropped an email to Mike R.

Update: Mike replied promptly; he can handle the tender board issue.

I don't have this engine but I do have the Lionmaster Big Boy from the same time frame. I can tell you from my experience that the tender will drain a regular 9V battery after the first use. I installed one of GRJ's YLB and it now works perfectly. After running the engine and powering off the layout I can hear a faint electrical hum coming from the tender which stops after a few seconds. I believe that is the issue with the sound board and the YLB fixed that to my sanctification.

Thanks Davety; I will give GRJ a yell and see if he can sell me YLB for the Challenger.

Have a NIB Challenger 6-11210 from the 2010 production run coming from the bay; will be shipped Saturday; will see if sound is an issue on my carpet layout driven by a ZWL. 

I suspect Gunrunner is at York but will give him a yell after he gets back re the YLB.

My 6-11210 Vision Line Union Pacific Challenger #3967 has Gunrunner John's #10500 YLB Battery in the tender to help keep the sound on while traveling over my #5 Atlas O switches.  It has improved the operation of the engine.

The whistle sound on my 6-11210 VL Challenger #3967 is muffled (not crisp) with three distinct tones to the whistle.  It is quite different from the whistles on my Vision Line Big Boys and the new 1931260 Challenger #3985 just produced.  The whistle in the newer UP Big Boy and Challenger do not quill like the 6-11210 VL Challenger.  The new whistle sounds the same in both engines, with very little movement in quilled tones.

The YLB Batteries are available from Henning's Trains for $39.95 and are listed under Electrical on their website. The #10500 connects to original battery cables.  The #10510 has a plug that goes into the sound board for engines that are not equipped with a battery cable.

Sincerely, John Rowlen

John R, thanks for the info; good to know the characteristics of the Challenger ahead of time - I don't like surprises.

So, the YLB you used for your Challenger 6-11210 #3967 is the #10500??   Took a look at that battery on Hennings trains; saw on one end the usual terminals that connect to the 9V battery; on the other end, there was a single red wire; do you recall what you connected that red wire to?

RickM45,

The red wire connects to the center pickup roller power.  I had to carefully shave-off the insulation on the tender center pick-up power wire and wrap the red wire around it before soldering the red wire in place.  I used electrical tape to cover the exposed wire.  Clean the power wire with an Exacto knife, carefully taking shavings off the insulation midway on the power wire.

Some engines have screws to the power pick-up rollers, but I don't believe this is the case on the Challenger. I did thirty (30) steam engines with Gunrunner John's YLB Batteries.  They made running steam engines on my Atlas O switches fun again.

Photos are of a C&O tender.  I did not photograph my Challenger install.

Sincerely, John Rowlen

Thanks a bunch John; the tips are priceless!  I get it - the red wire keeps the YLB charged.  Will order the #10500 YLB from Hennings.

Just thought I’d pipe in. As mentioned there is the issue of the sound boards on the 2010 VL Challenger. I got one last year NIB and I was having sound issues with no battery. Lionel still sent me a shipping label and reflashed the board and sent them back for free! Best part for me was I was able to remove the boards and just send those in rather than risk shipping damage. Since then even without a battery I’ve had no issues with it what so ever.