Lionel Command Set Cab-1L and Base

Are you turning up the power on transformer?

The U post only allows the base to transmit the signal on the outside rail to the locomotive and has nothing to do with controlling power to the loco.

First off, the BASE1L/CAB1L set have nothing to do with getting power to the tracks, so you need to look at the transformer and it's connection to your tracks for this problem.

The ONLY connection of the BASE1L to the tracks is to the outside rail, and that's just a signal connection.

Same transformer. However, my connection from the transformer is to the inside rail. Does not affect the conventional mode but I am ignorant on the issue. Thank you for the help.

Actually, your connection to the tracks from the transformer is to the center rail and outside rail or nothing would run in any mode.  If you can run in conventional mode, then just power up the BASE1L, make sure it's connected to the outside rail, and you should be good to go.

Note that a Legacy locomotive will be dark and silent until it's addressed by the command system.

Should I check track for voltage?

Excellent idea, just put a lighted caboose or passenger car on and make sure you have power to the tracks.

have track on with powered end car. nothing.

again, conventional on the same transformer is fine. I will kepp hammering.

If you're getting no power in command, what are you changing about the transformer connections?  If you have conventional stuff running, ALL you have to do is connect the signal wire from the BASE1L to the outside rail, do NOT change anything about the transformer connections.  Power up the BASE1L, crank the transformer to full throttle and run your Legacy locomotive with the CAB1L

My track is Atlas that does not connect the outside rail to the inside. Mi U is connected to the inside. Does that make a difference?

Thanks

That is your issue, your U has to go to the outside rail.

Having the base connected to the U post is fine, it is just that you then have to have U connect to the outside rail.

Conventional does not care that you have U connected to the middle rail.

Maybe I can spell better this time. I have the U connected to the inside rail - not the outiside. This I connect the U to the outside rail?

@John Capp posted:

Maybe I can spell better this time. I have the U connected to the inside rail - not the outiside. This I connect the U to the outside rail?

Yes U goes to the outside common rail because that's how the engine receives the signal it does not go to the powered center rail.

Still nothing. Again conventional mode it runs fine.

Okay. Let me use better English. The transformer is connected to the midddle rail. I have the base unit (U Pole) connected to the most inner rail of the three o gauge rails. Do I need to connect the base unit to the outside rail (outside rail of the 3 o gauge rails) for it to work?

Sorry for such a long thread for what should be a simple issue.

Let's make this a little clearer.  For your command system to work, wire from the transformer's "U" terminal has to go to the outside rail and the wire from the "A," "B," "C," or whatever the other terminal is designated has to go to the inside rail.  With any system, you need 2 wires to the rail somehow.

You then can connect your command base wire to either the transformer's "U" terminal or the outside rail of track.  With this wiring scheme, both command and conventional operations should work.

Chuck

This is what I have. The base unit is connected to the U on the transformer and the transformer to the inner most rail of my oval track. My only confusion here is as follows. I have a simple oval layout. My U terminal connection is connected to the outside rail but the one on the inside of the oval. Can I assume either outside rail would be fine?

Draw us a picture of what you have.  Just show the two transformer posts - power and U terminals, the base unit. and 3 lines representing the track.  Connect the wires as you have them and take a pic and post.

First off, what transformer do you have?  Most of Lionel's postwar single throttle transformers actually used the U terminal to the center rail.  The multi-throttle transformers, KW, ZW, VW, etc. used the U terminal as the outside rail connection.

In any case, with a single transformer in your layout, IT DOESN'T MATTER!  The transformer phasing only matters with multiple transformers.

You just need to get power to the tracks, and connect the signal lead from the BASE1L to the outside rail, and your TMCC/Legacy engines will run.  Don't overthink this!

I think there is a communication breakdown at least that's what I am perceiving and forgive me if I am wrong.

Just so we are all using the same terminology.  The "U / common" from the transformer and Command Base go to the outside rails.  The "Hot" goes to the center.

here is what I have. Sorry for the stick figure. Something new. I took all cars off but a lighted caboose. In conventional mode the lights were on. When I connect the base unit to the transformer (ZW with 180w brick) U common I no longer get power to the tracks at all. Lights on the caboose do not come on. I did make sure the power was on full throttle once the base was coonected.

Is this the transformer you are using?

ZW Transformer Controller #6-22982. Looks exactly like the one above but I cannot make out the item#.

@John Capp posted:

ZW Transformer Controller #6-22982. Looks exactly like the one above but I cannot make out the item#.

Are you putting the handles up, then using the Cab1, TR1, turn the red knob clockwise.  (This assumes the transformer in in command mode and assigned address 1).

TR1=A handle, TR4=D Handle.  These handles must be up and then turn the red knob on the Cab controller after selecting the corresponding TR address.  TR2=B handle but power will come on where handle is set.  TR3=C handle same operation as B handle.

I would simply program the ZW-C as Track-0 to return it to conventional operation and then some of this confusion will be gone.

I would also connect the command base directly to the track rather than to the transformer, since this seems to be part of the problem.  Not sure why, but for TMCC/Legacy, it's best to keep the power and command wiring separate, since there is no functional reason for having them connected.

Seems to be getting better (sarcasm). No matter how long I hold the Program button in on the back of the ZW, I cannot seem to reprogram/calibrate. The red light never blinks, etc. However the light does work as it blinks when "trying" to work the Cab-1l remote.

Any ideas? New transformer? I have also moved it to the U connection at the wall and not on the transformer itself. Base and transformer in separate plugs for whatever that helps.

It is strange that it is not getting any voltage when the Base1 is connected as the cabosse mentioned earlier does not light up even with controller all the way up. Even with bad track # assignment I would think the track would have voltage.

Fellas - I don't have a ZW, just a small 4'x8' layout (2 independent ovals with Lionel tubular track) using 180 blocks, Cab1-L, Base1-L and although MartyE alluded to it above (his assumption about an 'assigned' address) since Mr. Capp gets no response when he tries to power up, the thought that crossed my mind is might it be that he has not addressed his track(s) properly rather than connections to the track?  I just say that because whenever I use my Cab1-L the first thing I must do (before anything comes alive in Command mode) is ID the Track # I want to use (in my case either 1 or 2) and then I press Engine ID# for the engine I want to run.

Just wondering if it could be something as simple as this rather than the wire connections.

Thanks for the reply. What is strange is my ZW does not seem to go into program mode. It is also a unit from 2003 so I do not know if that makes a difference. I have tried to recalibrate voltage while base unit is powered doen and unhooked. I have also tried to assign a track #.

In reality I do not need to ZW as I would like to just use the TMCC/Legacy. I have recently installed a ceiling train kit over a pool table hence one line that can run pretty daggone quietly. These seem to fit the bill.

Soooooo - I have banana clip connections running through the ceiling to the track at 2 locations. As long as know the ploarity of the power block can I cut the cord off of the power brick and run directly to the banana plugs?

Additionally, I can have one of the track connections changed so that the U conncetion hits BOTH of the outside rails if that should help.

Thanks to you all!

John, I guessed you were talking about the rails and your drawing was fine. A bunch of talented guys here to solve issues.

I've never used a ZW with the tracks assigned for TMCC or Legacy operation. Is it possible as mentioned his ZW ("C" model I think) works without the base because it itself is working conventional? And when he connects the base now it is in "Command" mode and needs to be programmed as John says?

@John Capp posted:

Hello,

I have a brand new Cab-1l remots and base set. They talk to each other fine. Just bought an SD40 Legacy with Odyssey/bluetooth, etc. It runs in conventional mode fine but it is as if I am not getting power to the track with the Cab-1l remote. Tje man at the store had it running today with his Cab2 remote just fine. I have tried resetting ID etc. but it appears no power to track. I have the wire from the base hooked to a U side on my ZW. Same nut as the current powerpack just to make sure. Again remote and base recognize each other. Any help is appreciated.

John

I had a similar issue with my new SW8 Strasburg Switcher.  Ran fine in conventional but in command mode, it sat there as if no power was at the track.   I didn’t even get a confirmation horn that anything was happening when I tried to program the ID into my CAB1.   As it turned I think it was a software glitch and the engine is running fine.

Make sure it’s the only engine on the track in program mode (switch on the engine).  Tap out the program sequence.  I think the horn should beep at this point but mine didn’t which made me think something was wrong.   At this point it wouldn’t move but I hadn't move the switch back to RUN yet.   Moved the switch to RUN, powered up the track again and still nothing.  But as soon as I gave it some juice from the CAB1, everything was fine.   From that point on, once the track powered up, the engine would wake up right away.

This is my first new Legacy engine so I don’t have much experience but that’s how it worked for me.

@John Capp posted:

As long as know the ploarity of the power block can I cut the cord off of the power brick and run directly to the banana plugs?

Like I said before, if it's a single transformer on a layout with no other power coming in, don't worry about polarity, it will make no difference.  The only time you have to worry about polarity is if you have multiple transformers,   Also, if you're using a transformer with whistle and/or bell controls, then you have to have it right for the controls to work.

Okay. I cut the cord and plugged it in and the clouds parted. Came on immediately. More to come I am sure as I embrace more. Thank you all. Some type of controller issue I guess. No other changes were made.

Great group - and patient.

@VJandP

See my solution. Maybe the same? Also my first legacy directly from convedntional. Do not think I will ever go back for my needs.

Glad to hear you have success.  I guess the transformer is being a PITA, sometimes that happens.

John Capp - I just want to be clear, are you saying you'll never go back to a Conventional only engine, or a Legacy equipped engine? 

Not interested in conventional anymore but I am sure I will still mess with them. I have a ceiling train in my pool room and you can't beat how quiet the legacy engines are when you turn some o the noises down. I love the sounds too but for everyday use it is nice that they are so quiet.

One thing you could try is to power on the transformer first (don’t power up the handles), just power to the transformer.  Wait about 5-10 seconds, then power up the Legacy base.  Power up your Cab-2, then the handles to 18 volts and run your Legacy engines.

if there is no Legacy signal present when the transformer is powered on it will stay in conventional mode, and will not require the track ID process to get power to the track.