I read through most of the posting about the CW-80, but was not allowed to add to the topic matter , so I assumed i had to start a new  topic  ,  forgive me if I am wrong

 

This was the first day I had time to  run my conventional set on my out side track ,  every thing was running very well  for a good hour then everything stopped , the CW-80 's green light came on and remained steady   .     there was not power to the track at all.    at  first I thought it was my  loco  , but when i attached   an older transformer the train started up   ...

 

 

NOW when I plug the CW-80  in the green light comes on and remains steady ,  I do hear  the fan running  well I guessed it was the fans .... 

 

 

I am not very  good a fixing things electrical   ......  what are my options !!!      ( do I  wait until I save enough to purchase another transformer - leaving running my trains until   well when every that might be )  

Original Post

You may want to contact Lionel. i believe they're pretty good about replacing these. They typically ask you to cut off the cord and send just the cord to them.

 

They then send out a replacement. Lionels phone and email can be found here: https://www.lionelsupport.com/ContactUs/

 

I have had good luck sending emails via the service/repair question link.

" No matter how far we travel, the memories will follow in the baggage car."

It is really not meant to be opened, but if you got the security screws out, there is a glass fuse that probably blew.  If you can get a replacement that is best.  G

MTH Authorized Service Center

Authorized ERR Dealer

Lionel Independent Repair Tech

Virginia Train Collectors Member

As my reply from Lionel  seems to state I have  few options

 

Douglas,

 

There is not a way to repair the CW80. We do not have a tool to open them, as when they are in warranty - we simply replace them. We do not make repairs on CW80's. At this point, you may want to consider purchasing a new transformer.

 

 

 

 

Meghan

Lead Customer Service Representative

6000 Victory Lane| Concord, NC 28027

1-800-4LIONEL | 704-455-8940 (f)

 

If they don't have a tool to open them, why did they specify the screwball triangle screw head??? 

 

What a lame response, that's really not what I'd expect from Lionel!

 

Originally Posted by gunrunnerjohn:

 

What a lame response, that's really not what I'd expect from Lionel!

 

Well thats what I would expect from the "customer service representative." they can only answer with "cookie cutter" responses.

 

In the past, when I've emailed Lionel I was always under the impression Mike Reagan or one of the other techs was on the receiving end.

 

I'm not sure if it was luck, or maybe Lionels emails now go through customer service first since they've moved.

 

Questions/repairs were always handled fast and accurately.

" No matter how far we travel, the memories will follow in the baggage car."

Greetings All,

 

I'm no expert by any stretch of the imagination but I can share my recent experiences with the transformer in question.  I was using a CW 80 that I had left over from a set break-up to test LED lighting circuits.  Well, being the Thomas Edison that I am (NOT) I put the alligator clips on the respective red and black wires and "gave her the juice" which produced a rather loud buzz (it actually sent chills up my spine) from the transformer for a Millisecond and the green light went dead and all was silent (except for my quiet sobbing).  Well not being one to acquiesce to a "stinking anti-tamper screw", I started thinking "Out of The Box".  I hit the head and grabbed a Ham & Cheese Samich on the way back to the work bench and arrived at a way to defeat the evil tamper-proof screws hindering my journey into the bowels of the transformer.  I found a Tri-Angle meal File and proceeded to grind down the end until the file fit into the Tri-Angle head of the tamper proof screw.  As a result, I was able to gain entrance into the forbidden interior of the transformer.  There is a fairly large coil some red wires and some black wires, a small cooling fan, what looks to be either a heat shield or a heat sink, a printed circuit board, (of which I know nothing what so ever about) and a "glass fuse".  I stripped away the shrink tubing only to find the fuse was intact and not blown.  I decided to plug the power cord back into the wall socket only to hear a small "click" noise and nothing else.  Well, ultimately not being an electrical engineer I decided to do what I considered was the best thing to do in my situation.  I cut off the power cord and used it to replace the tattered one on my Post War 1033 90 Watt transformer and then I chucked the rest of the CW80 into the trash.  Besides, the 1033 has 10 more Watts.

 

Chief Bob (Retired)

Actually, given that the 1033 is rated on input power and the CW-80 is rated on output power, the CW-80 probably has slightly more output power.  However, I think you probably made the right decision anyway.

 

FWIW, the usual failure of these if it's not the fuse are the output triac drivers, they're fairly easily replaced.

As I remember Dale M's experiment, the transformer in the CW-80 is pretty robust. I want to say he was loading it to something like 8 amps ac or more and it held up well. That means that you could pull all the guts out and use it for a TMCC power source almost or as well as one of the 180 watt bricks...maybe leave the fan in it, etc.

Chuck TCA LCCA ARRL BMWMOA

I'm not sure it would be 8 amps, that would put it at 144 watts at 18 volts.  Judging the difference in that transformer core and the PowerHouse 180, I'd say you'd be more in the 6 amp range at most.

 

Originally Posted by gunrunnerjohn:

I'm not sure it would be 8 amps, that would put it at 144 watts at 18 volts.  Judging the difference in that transformer core and the PowerHouse 180, I'd say you'd be more in the 6 amp range at most.

 

I remember him being surprised...but I don't know how long the test lasted and I think it was in air, not enclosed.

Chuck TCA LCCA ARRL BMWMOA

I'd be surprised too.   You might get 8 amps out of it, but I suspect the voltage would have dropped significantly and it's likely overloaded.

Originally Posted by gunrunnerjohn:

I'd be surprised too.   You might get 8 amps out of it, but I suspect the voltage would have dropped significantly and it's likely overloaded.

I don't see the load test, but here's the repair stuff on the older version...

 

http://www.trainfacts.com/trainfacts/?p=34

 

if the output impedance is .15 ohms, then 8 amps would drop the output from 17.9 to about 16.7 v. Still workable. Not a proposal, just interesting...

 

Chuck TCA LCCA ARRL BMWMOA

I don't think the output impedance translates directly to the maximum current of the voltage drop at that current.  There is the losses in the transformer core to consider as well. 

Thank you all for your replies , certainly  gives me some to think about  

 

HOWEVER     

 

imagine the surprise I had today  when I checked  my  emails 

I had  a very nice note from Lionel that grand old American Company .. they had reconsidered their situation and are going to replace my CW-80 transformer

 

 

That certainly says a lot for this company, in my books anyway  ......

 

 

I will be able to run my 2018  once again  with out a whole lot of complication

 

A tip of the old hat  to    Lionel 

 

 

Originally Posted by Robert Macfie:

Thank you all for your replies , certainly  gives me some to think about  

 

HOWEVER     

 

imagine the surprise I had today  when I checked  my  emails 

I had  a very nice note from Lionel that grand old American Company .. they had reconsidered their situation and are going to replace my CW-80 transformer

 

 

That certainly says a lot for this company, in my books anyway  ......

 

 

I will be able to run my 2018  once again  with out a whole lot of complication

 

A tip of the old hat  to    Lionel 

 

 

I like that very much!

Chuck TCA LCCA ARRL BMWMOA

The transformer core is robust but the electronic can still fail, not just the fuse.  An many times it is the IC controller not a FET/TRIAC.

 

I have repaired about 10 of these.  I think 3 couldn't be fixed.  The other were simple fuse issues.

 

But the best repair is a replacement, so glad Lionel is sending one.   G

MTH Authorized Service Center

Authorized ERR Dealer

Lionel Independent Repair Tech

Virginia Train Collectors Member

I have read many many posts/threads on various forums dealing with this infamous CW-80, & CW-40 transformer.  I personally do not own one, whether it's Postwar, or the modern one.  The opinion I have come up with is to just stay away from them.  The majority of posts highlight all the problems people have had with things like phasing issues, internal parts failure and the like.  I'll stick with my KW's and ZW.  Just a personal opinion!

There are "tricks" you could do with the various combos of PW transformers too.

 

They all have to be phased, and "multi-posts" used correctly, no matter the age.

 

 A CW will just refuse to work if its not phased right.

Its breaker drop out, is lighting fast compared to PW.

A CW draw back would be the peak amps on a high draw PW unit, might shut it down if you throttle up too fast.

 

The main PW difference is U being reversed on single train, and to two train transformers..

 

"Still trying to not shoot my eye out"

 

"Nursing insomnia one railcar at a time"

My aroma therapy? Smoke Pellets.

 





I have two of the CW 80 one I replaced the fan and triacs on and it runs great. the second ran great until a caboose collector roller short to the out rail the track power has not restored since but the fuse link is not blown i’m afraid the processor is blown with so many troubles these have had a supplier could make a fortune if the main boards could be re produced and sold to fix these. i’ll replace the triacs but doubt that is the problem I get voltage to the track but it all stops soon as any power demanding car goes on track anyone have any ideas on a fix or is it now a desk ornament?

If you have it open, it's simple to test.  See if the transformer secondary can support a decent load, say a really large 5 to 10 ohm resistor and still supply voltage.  If so, then you have an issue with the electronics.

Oh well John, looks like I won’t get lucky twice. I powered up the same caboose that shut down the track voltage on this CW 80 by powering it direct to the transformer to bypass the control board and it remained powered up ok. my guess is a scrambled IC chip and don’t have that just a bunch of triacs for this same transformer the last one of these I worked on runs great!

It should be pretty easy to find most of the components, there's only on LM324, and one transistor.  By tracing from the major parts, you can identify most components.

Lionel Powerhouse 180 Schematic

Attachments

Photos (1)
gunrunnerjohn posted:

It should be pretty easy to find most of the components, there's only on LM324, and one transistor.  By tracing from the major parts, you can identify most components.

Lionel Powerhouse 180 Schematic

I have looked at this for a while and do not see any means of varying the output voltage, am I missing something? Also, the title shows "POWERHOUSE 180" not "CW-80", are they the same thing?

Later Gator,

  Dave

 

Here comes a Yankee with a blackened soul,
Heading to Gatow with a load of coal.
......Anonymous U. S. pilot during the Berlin Airlift

The LM324 is a simple op-amp, it doesn't get programmed.a  However!  I posted the wrong diagram!

The programmable part in this picture is the MC68HC908, if that part is bad, you're out of luck.  However, the failures are far more likely to be at the top of the diagram, specifically the BTA24-600CWRG is a likely failure candidate.

Lionel CW-80-schematic-II

Attachments

Photos (1)

I am curious as to what section of the circuitry on the CW 80 controls the “logic” or in this case the ill logic. the transformer puts out full track voltage but even a small light load just shuts down the track voltage and no fuse links blowing out

Check the resistor wire at R8, it's how they sense overloads.  If that is OK, perhaps the LMV358M or the parts around it are the problem.

Attachments

Photos (1)

well this is a different problem I found on my second CW 80 rebuild. the throttle potentiometer socket was not properly soldered into the control circuit board causing a lot of strange problems but fixed now. I agree with others that the quality control built in China is a bad idea

Add Reply

Likes (0)
Post
OGR Publishing, Inc., 1310 Eastside Centre Ct, Suite 6, Mountain Home, AR 72653
330-757-3020

www.ogaugerr.com
×
×
×
×
×