can anyone give me some insight on the CW 80 watt transformer? I’m only running post war and some engines about 30 years old. I have a LW and TW but no luck keeping those working as one thing is fixed another breaks. i’m not running more than one train and one operating track any input would be greatly appreciated
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Are you running I. Conventional or legacy. Either one should be fine with the 80 transformer.
I am running non legacey trains all post war with the newest I have being about a 1987 model year diesel. i’ve read some reviews that the CW 80 watt can have problems with the E units of the older trains. I have a TW and LW transformer but as one function is fixed another will break getting to costly to fix these older transformers that were made for the post war trains
Skip it. It’s a chopped sign wave transformer. It can cause overheating of postwar motors. This one is among the worst. It only really works with the engines included in the starter sets it came with.
George
that’s what I thought i’ve read some reviews and there not good thanks for your reply
The classic transformers such as the LW and TW are relatively bulletproof... they shouldn't be giving you reliability issues after given a once over.
I have a LW in for repair and it’s the third time i’m ready to just junk it costing too much to save if you know of anyone having a dependable TW for sale that would be great ebay has a lot but anything i’ve purchased from sellers there have all needed repair unless purchased new
What is wrong with your LW and TW?
the LW is with a friend that’s done lionel repair for about 40 years and gave it to him for a power cord and twice now still does not work. had one when I was a kid and those are a strong little powerhouse. I replaced the TW cord now don’t get a steady green light and no track power I think it’s just years not being run and would love to find another TW
Not to be insensitive, but it sounds the issue may lie with the reliability of your repair man instead of the transformer...
I think you are correct as my friend does appear to have some bad arthritis
George S posted:Skip it. It’s a chopped sign wave transformer. It can cause overheating of postwar motors. This one is among the worst. It only really works with the engines included in the starter sets it came with.
George
I agree with George: the CW80 works great with modern ready to run sets. I have several and have had no problems. I run my post war trains with a professional rebuilt ZW.
If your TW or LW is rebuilt properly it should last for years.
Run as far from a CW-80 as possible.......
I have one- can't stand it. Going to pick up a MTH Z-1000 soon.
Mostly a love 'em or hate 'em relationship from what I've read over the years
I agree and not going to spend more ard earned money on junk
While the CW80 is the transformer forum members love to hate...I have been using 4 of them over the past 17 years...2 for my TMCC layout (one for each route), and 1 each for my 2 Christmas layouts. What else can I say?
Put me down for loving the cw 80 after they got the kinks worked out early on. I have 4 and they run post war and modern and have not failed yet. Also the programmable accessory tap is a big plus.
that could be a good transformer but all that i’ve found out they have too many quirks and the latest word out is that lionel discontinued the CW 80 that’s a red flag
rebuilder posted:...the latest word out is that lionel discontinued the CW 80 that’s a red flag...
Yeah, it only ran for the same # of years as the KW.
never had a KW but did have a TW as a kid and it was a strong little powerhouse to run one layout getting one of those rebuilt now
actually that was the LW I had as a kid a strong little powerhouse
There must be varying quality of these 80's. The two I had were worthless for more than a small loop and cars with limited or no lighting. A 3 car passenger train was causing the 80s to fail. Light would start flashing and then power off. I felt bad giving those things away to others, the thought of new hobbiests running into this type aggravation is bad.
from all i’ve read about those CW 80 transformers are only good for a very small set up. I have all post war so i’m sticking with the post war transformers and some of those were junk too
VistaDomeScott posted:There must be varying quality of these 80's. The two I had were worthless for more than a small loop and cars with limited or no lighting...
Is it possible you were using a 6-14275 or 6-24253 instead of a 6-14198? They all have different outputs but look exactly like this:
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thanks for the reply. i’ve not tried any of those three but all i’ve heard is that there not very friendly on post war especially where the E unit is concerned. there is a lionel shop nearby and if I were to consider the 80watt I would have to see a live demo with engine and tender whistle can’t afford mistakes
I do like the outside appearance but I don’t think the performance is really there
hey Rob, sorry if you had the impression that I have a CW 80 but I never had one I did find a lot of bad reviews on those. i’ll take some of the post war transformers any day or at least the post war LW TW and ZW
I read somewhere, I think on the Bay, that CW80's produced after 2006 were a new version with faults corrected. I own a number of brown box versions of them post 2006 bought from dealers; there is a green sticker seal on them showing the date of manufacture; the one I am using now to run legacy engines - no more than 2 at a time on a two 6' concentric ovals with smoke units off - have not given me a problem. BUT, smoke units on and incandescent lighted cars is a no-no - smoke units may throw the 3 blink cab flash.
I could not run that transformer as the post war does need more than what the 80 can keep up wih
The CW-80 is not in the latest catalog, but Lionel has not announced that it has been discontinued, as far as I can tell.
EDIT: I heard today from my manager at the hobby shop where I work part time that Lionel is indeed discontinuing the current version of its 40- and 80-watt transformers due to federal changes regulating external power sources. So it does appear the CW-80 will be replaced in the product line.
As Lionel shifts more of its train sets to the LionChief formats, I can see where it is possible the company will drop the 80-watt transformer from its line completely at some point.
Lionel has marketed the CW-80 for about 15 years. It has exhibited some problems in those years, including the wiring snafu prior to 2006 and some fan-motor problems on occasion.
As far as the chopped-wave output goes, it is a problem for MTH locomotives, though not all. The CW-80 is hardly unique, in that regard. Which is why I prefer to run my MTH locomotives, especially PS1 and PS2 models, on an MTH Z-4000, whenever possible.
Still, I like the little CW-80 for conventional power on my non MTH models. I don’t consider it strictly a starter-set transformer, though it does have limited applications and is not as sensible for layouts that need to draw large amperage. A 180-watt brick makes a lot more sense once you graduate to that level.
Got mine from HobbySpeed.
I still need to pick up one to complete one of our PE sets. They aren't going cheap right now.
I remember buying mine mostly from HobbySpeed going for around 120 from their site on Ebay; Ro has them for 115; plenty of used ones on the bay.
Jim R, thanks for the great info; going on hearsay does not do it for me; I use one for testing as it has a fast breaker; curious as to the new govt mandated versions will be like when they come out. Falcon70
The new federal regulations are requiring us to redesign the circuitry of the CW-80. It's the same thing that happened with the PH-180/GW-180. Now that we have that one redesigned and shipping, the CW-80 is being worked on.
The new CW-80 will have a new sku number. Aside from the changes being made to meet the new regulations, we're also improving upon the design. The efficiency will be improved and render the cooling fan obsolete. Also, it will get the bi-color LED like the GW-180 - green normally and red when there's a fault.
I'm excited for the new design. We're hoping to get the first shipment out by the end of the year. It'll show its face in the C2 catalog.
rebuilder posted:can anyone give me some insight on the CW 80 watt transformer? I’m only running post war and some engines about 30 years old. I have a LW and TW but no luck keeping those working as one thing is fixed another breaks. i’m not running more than one train and one operating track any input would be greatly appreciated
You already had your mind set up and decided they are junk. So what was your purpose of this post anyway.
I have 2 CW 80's • One on my layout and one on my test track. Had these for years.
The one on the layout is used for accessories and I have an older ZW-L with 4 bricks. The one on my test track I use for the Christmas layout. No issues to report at this time.
What problems should I be looking for? Are these CW 80's a fire hazard?
Gary
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Dave Olson posted:The new federal regulations are requiring us to redesign the circuitry of the CW-80. It's the same thing that happened with the PH-180/GW-180. Now that we have that one redesigned and shipping, the CW-80 is being worked on.
The new CW-80 will have a new sku number. Aside from the changes being made to meet the new regulations, we're also improving upon the design. The efficiency will be improved and render the cooling fan obsolete. Also, it will get the bi-color LED like the GW-180 - green normally and red when there's a fault.
I'm excited for the new design. We're hoping to get the first shipment out by the end of the year. It'll show its face in the C2 catalog.
What sort of redesign are you doing?
trainroomgary posted:Are these CW 80's a fire hazard?
Gary
No.
mlavender480 posted:What sort of redesign are you doing?
Just the inside electronics. From a user standpoint, it will not look or operate any differently aside from changing to the bicolor LED. It will be more reliable and efficient.
I used a CW80, but as I expanded my layout, 80w wasn't enough. Now I use it to power the lights and switches in the train yard on the club layout. I'm currently powering my track, switches and some lights with a VW which is 150w.
I've never had a problem with my CW80 and I've had for a number of years.
Hi Dave: Thanks for the report on the CW 80's • Not being a fire hazard.
I like my setup, looks great together. CW 80 & ZW-L with 4 bricks, 180 Watts each. I like to call this.......
"The Wow Factor" When I have visitors to my train room, both train people and non train people recognize the name LIONEL. Just something about a transformer in "Purple" is a no go for my train room.
Hope this helps: Gary
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Dave Olson posted:The new federal regulations are requiring us to redesign the circuitry of the CW-80. It's the same thing that happened with the PH-180/GW-180. Now that we have that one redesigned and shipping, the CW-80 is being worked on.
The new CW-80 will have a new sku number. Aside from the changes being made to meet the new regulations, we're also improving upon the design. The efficiency will be improved and render the cooling fan obsolete. Also, it will get the bi-color LED like the GW-180 - green normally and red when there's a fault.
I'm excited for the new design. We're hoping to get the first shipment out by the end of the year. It'll show its face in the C2 catalog.
The few of us that have bought into the DC operation of LC, LC+, and LC+2.0, are really looking forward to a bigger DC power source! I currently run 2 72 watt power supplies on my 17x11 around the room layout with no problem. But others tell me they are having problems when they run too many lit cars (probably not LED). I really thought we would see one in the new catalog, but no luck. Did notice the adjustable voltage P.E. trolley set up though. Is it just an adjustable 72 watt unit?
Jim
Edit: I also own two CW80s that have worked wonderfully! Running worn out post war locos to new ones.
carsntrains posted:The few of us that have bought into the DC operation of LC, LC+, and LC+2.0, are really looking forward to a bigger DC power source!
The last thing we need for newcomers is added power source confusion... There is no need to upset generations upon generations of the 3 rail standard of AC on the rails. This doesn't prevent any perceived benefits of DC being utilized post rectification. It is also my understanding that TMCC & Legacy use the zero cross of the AC cycles on the track power for data synchronization. Therefore, DC is not compatible with TMCC and Legacy signals.
I had a department store display using 3 CW-80's that were ON for four years. Not in use for 4 years, but ON. The display had push buttons for the public to run them, but they were on 24 hours a day. The only time they were off was when some helpful member of the public touched the trains and popped the breaker.
Had one or two DOA out of the box, and one or two with the posts reversed, but all of those were replaced by Lionel.
I've been considering picking up a CW-80 for accessories on my layout - should I look elsewhere? I'm currently using a postwar Type 1053 which doesn't have a circuit breaker built-in. I like the idea of using a small transformer with a voltage controller so I can step down the voltage from the fixed 18V the Z-1000 or a PowerHouse brick puts out - thoughts?
mattrain posted:I've been considering picking up a CW-80 for accessories on my layout - should I look elsewhere? I'm currently using a postwar Type 1053 which doesn't have a circuit breaker built-in. I like the idea of using a small transformer with a voltage controller so I can step down the voltage from the fixed 18V the Z-1000 or a PowerHouse brick puts out - thoughts?
You can find smaller Marx & Lionel transformers for almost nothing at shows. External breakers and TVS diodes are not that expensive and gives you variable pure sine wave AC for your accessories. You can chain a number of them up with common ground wiring and power many accessories dialed right in.
You can also go big with large transformers like the classic ZW or the modern Z4000 that have multiple voltage taps, but they can be pricier.
bmoran4 posted:carsntrains posted:The few of us that have bought into the DC operation of LC, LC+, and LC+2.0, are really looking forward to a bigger DC power source!
The last thing we need for newcomers is added power source confusion... There is no need to upset generations upon generations of the 3 rail standard of AC on the rails. This doesn't prevent any perceived benefits of DC being utilized post rectification. It is also my understanding that TMCC & Legacy use the zero cross of the AC cycles on the track power for data synchronization. Therefore, DC is not compatible with TMCC and Legacy signals.
Well I guess they are already confused because they offer both AC and DC power sources now. The future is in DC. I think its a joke to take wall power, convert it to 18V AC, apply that to the track, then have the engine convert the 18V AC to 18V DC to run the DC motors in LC, LC+, and LC+2.0. And please notice ALL! And I repeat ALL of the Lionel trains that are being sold and are not "built to order" either come with a DC power source or can run on a DC power source.
I think the diesel/electric upset generations of steam folks. Who upset generations of horse folks. I really cant think of many things other than appliances that run on AC anymore. Most things turn the wall power to DC BEFORE it gets to what it powers. : )
Jim
carsntrains posted:And please notice ALL! And I repeat ALL of the Lionel trains that are being sold and are not "built to order" either come with a DC power source or can run on a DC power source.
It only takes one example to disprove your assertion of "ALL" - a quick scour over the 2019 Big Book Has many examples:
- DC operation excludes command operation and therefore features are given up and inaccessible. This is big and it is a shame Lionel doesn't make this very clear.
- pg 48 - Motorized units - They operate in Conventional or Command mode. Since TMCC/Legacy don't work with DC, and Lionel only offers fixed voltage DC supplies on pg 200, there is no Lionel supported way to operate them on DC.
- pg 126 - Lionel FA Set, as with this is conventional only, and Lionel only offers fixed voltage DC supplies on pg 200, there again is no Lionel supported way to operate them on DC.
- pg 157 hand car - same story
- pg 186, the rotary beacon is specifically AC only
- pg 201, 203 - the command and LCS components operate exclusively on AC power
Now, admittedly in certain cases I am being extremely pedantic, and there is a possibility that the trolley controller on pg 158 will become available as a separate sale item and that will allow for conventional DC control, but that remains to be seen.
Bottom line, not everything in the latest catalog (BTO exclusion or not) is DC compatible or is fully functional on DC.
bmoran4
Agree not good to confuse newcomers but as newcomer to the hobby do not understand "pedantic"? And I do not want to upset generations of 3rd rail prospective?
RickM46 posted:I remember buying mine mostly from HobbySpeed going for around 120 from their site on Ebay; Ro has them for 115; plenty of used ones on the bay.
True enough, but I consider that far too high a price for them. The old adage about $1/watt is pushing well past the limit of reason for a CW-80.
I would love to get a CW 80 if they can get the bugs out but for now the LW TW and ZW are running great
palallin posted:RickM46 posted:I remember buying mine mostly from HobbySpeed going for around 120 from their site on Ebay; Ro has them for 115; plenty of used ones on the bay.
True enough, but I consider that far too high a price for them. The old adage about $1/watt is pushing well past the limit of reason for a CW-80.
$1 per watt? It has been a long time since that mark was standard.
An MTH Z-1000 lists for $130. A Z-4000 lists for $500. Even with discounts, the price is more than $1 per watt.
bmoran4 posted:carsntrains posted:And please notice ALL! And I repeat ALL of the Lionel trains that are being sold and are not "built to order" either come with a DC power source or can run on a DC power source.
It only takes one example to disprove your assertion of "ALL" - a quick scour over the 2019 Big Book Has many examples:
- DC operation excludes command operation and therefore features are given up and inaccessible. This is big and it is a shame Lionel doesn't make this very clear.
- pg 48 - Motorized units - They operate in Conventional or Command mode. Since TMCC/Legacy don't work with DC, and Lionel only offers fixed voltage DC supplies on pg 200, there is no Lionel supported way to operate them on DC.
- pg 126 - Lionel FA Set, as with this is conventional only, and Lionel only offers fixed voltage DC supplies on pg 200, there again is no Lionel supported way to operate them on DC.
- pg 157 hand car - same story
- pg 186, the rotary beacon is specifically AC only
- pg 201, 203 - the command and LCS components operate exclusively on AC power
Now, admittedly in certain cases I am being extremely pedantic, and there is a possibility that the trolley controller on pg 158 will become available as a separate sale item and that will allow for conventional DC control, but that remains to be seen.
Bottom line, not everything in the latest catalog (BTO exclusion or not) is DC compatible or is fully functional on DC.
TRAINS! Not hand cars or speeders. Ryan said himself the only reason they do not have LC type control is the boards won't fit in them! : )
And not accessories lol WOW that is really reaching. So Lionel sells their train sets with DC power packs and sell a 72 watt for expansion but they don't support running trains on DC? WOW is all I can say. Amazing. One special set is a maybe.........
Jim
carsntrains posted:bmoran4 posted:carsntrains posted:And please notice ALL! And I repeat ALL of the Lionel trains that are being sold and are not "built to order" either come with a DC power source or can run on a DC power source.
It only takes one example to disprove your assertion of "ALL" - a quick scour over the 2019 Big Book Has many examples:
- DC operation excludes command operation and therefore features are given up and inaccessible. This is big and it is a shame Lionel doesn't make this very clear.
- pg 48 - Motorized units - They operate in Conventional or Command mode. Since TMCC/Legacy don't work with DC, and Lionel only offers fixed voltage DC supplies on pg 200, there is no Lionel supported way to operate them on DC.
- pg 126 - Lionel FA Set, as with this is conventional only, and Lionel only offers fixed voltage DC supplies on pg 200, there again is no Lionel supported way to operate them on DC.
- pg 157 hand car - same story
- pg 186, the rotary beacon is specifically AC only
- pg 201, 203 - the command and LCS components operate exclusively on AC power
Now, admittedly in certain cases I am being extremely pedantic, and there is a possibility that the trolley controller on pg 158 will become available as a separate sale item and that will allow for conventional DC control, but that remains to be seen.
Bottom line, not everything in the latest catalog (BTO exclusion or not) is DC compatible or is fully functional on DC.
TRAINS! Not hand cars or speeders. Ryan said himself the only reason they do not have LC type control is the boards won't fit in them! : )
And not accessories lol WOW that is really reaching. So Lionel sells their train sets with DC power packs and sell a 72 watt for expansion but they don't support running trains on DC? WOW is all I can say. Amazing. One special set is a maybe.........
Jim
I challenge you to find something that is not FULLY functional on AC. Recall, DC is exclusive of command control where the full feature sets lie.
bmoran4 posted:carsntrains posted:bmoran4 posted:carsntrains posted:And please notice ALL! And I repeat ALL of the Lionel trains that are being sold and are not "built to order" either come with a DC power source or can run on a DC power source.
It only takes one example to disprove your assertion of "ALL" - a quick scour over the 2019 Big Book Has many examples:
- DC operation excludes command operation and therefore features are given up and inaccessible. This is big and it is a shame Lionel doesn't make this very clear.
- pg 48 - Motorized units - They operate in Conventional or Command mode. Since TMCC/Legacy don't work with DC, and Lionel only offers fixed voltage DC supplies on pg 200, there is no Lionel supported way to operate them on DC.
- pg 126 - Lionel FA Set, as with this is conventional only, and Lionel only offers fixed voltage DC supplies on pg 200, there again is no Lionel supported way to operate them on DC.
- pg 157 hand car - same story
- pg 186, the rotary beacon is specifically AC only
- pg 201, 203 - the command and LCS components operate exclusively on AC power
Now, admittedly in certain cases I am being extremely pedantic, and there is a possibility that the trolley controller on pg 158 will become available as a separate sale item and that will allow for conventional DC control, but that remains to be seen.
Bottom line, not everything in the latest catalog (BTO exclusion or not) is DC compatible or is fully functional on DC.
TRAINS! Not hand cars or speeders. Ryan said himself the only reason they do not have LC type control is the boards won't fit in them! : )
And not accessories lol WOW that is really reaching. So Lionel sells their train sets with DC power packs and sell a 72 watt for expansion but they don't support running trains on DC? WOW is all I can say. Amazing. One special set is a maybe.........
Jim
I challenge you to find something that is not FULLY functional on AC. Recall, DC is exclusive of command control where the full feature sets lie.
I challenge you to find something thats LC, LC+, and or LC+2.0 that isnt fully functional on DC! And a Legacy engine that isnt built to order!
Real trains used to be powered by wood, coal, or oil making steam. At one point nearly all of them did. Model trains are making that same switch but not from coal, but to DC from antiquated AC transformers. : )
Jim : )
Edit: And this is all I need to remotely run my 3 LC+, and 4 LC engines. 49.99 at most hobby shops.
carsntrains posted:bmoran4 posted:carsntrains posted:bmoran4 posted:carsntrains posted:And please notice ALL! And I repeat ALL of the Lionel trains that are being sold and are not "built to order" either come with a DC power source or can run on a DC power source.
It only takes one example to disprove your assertion of "ALL" - a quick scour over the 2019 Big Book Has many examples:
- DC operation excludes command operation and therefore features are given up and inaccessible. This is big and it is a shame Lionel doesn't make this very clear.
- pg 48 - Motorized units - They operate in Conventional or Command mode. Since TMCC/Legacy don't work with DC, and Lionel only offers fixed voltage DC supplies on pg 200, there is no Lionel supported way to operate them on DC.
- pg 126 - Lionel FA Set, as with this is conventional only, and Lionel only offers fixed voltage DC supplies on pg 200, there again is no Lionel supported way to operate them on DC.
- pg 157 hand car - same story
- pg 186, the rotary beacon is specifically AC only
- pg 201, 203 - the command and LCS components operate exclusively on AC power
Now, admittedly in certain cases I am being extremely pedantic, and there is a possibility that the trolley controller on pg 158 will become available as a separate sale item and that will allow for conventional DC control, but that remains to be seen.
Bottom line, not everything in the latest catalog (BTO exclusion or not) is DC compatible or is fully functional on DC.
TRAINS! Not hand cars or speeders. Ryan said himself the only reason they do not have LC type control is the boards won't fit in them! : )
And not accessories lol WOW that is really reaching. So Lionel sells their train sets with DC power packs and sell a 72 watt for expansion but they don't support running trains on DC? WOW is all I can say. Amazing. One special set is a maybe.........
Jim
I challenge you to find something that is not FULLY functional on AC. Recall, DC is exclusive of command control where the full feature sets lie.
I challenge you to find something thats LC, LC+, and or LC+2.0 that isnt fully functional on DC! And of a Legacy engine that isnt built to order!
Real trains used to be powered by wood, coal, or oil making steam. At one point nearly all of them did. Model trains are making that same switch but not from coal, but to DC from antiquated AC transformers. : )
Jim : )
- I doubt the majority of hobbyist here are ready to give up on command control in its current forms.
- Lionel is doing a disservice to newcomers by adding to the power supply confusion, especially ones that are not fully backwards or forwards compatible.
- At no point did I disagree that LC, LC+ and LC+2.0 could operate FULLY on DC, but there are items that do not operate FULLY on DC including anything command control. Stating that ALL trains run on DC is missing the nuances that shouldn't and wouldn't exist when adhering to the AC standard.
- AC vs DC battles are nothing new and is not analogous to coal/wood/oil etc... The AC/DC battle goes back to Edison & Tesla. In fact, DC systems predate AC.
Bottom line, scoped to the current catalog or over a century of 3 rail o gauge railroading, AC compatability vastly outnumbers DC compatability. Extremely narrowly scoped to LC, LC+, and LC+2.0, AC and DC compatability is equal.
bmoran4 posted:carsntrains posted:bmoran4 posted:carsntrains posted:bmoran4 posted:carsntrains posted:And please notice ALL! And I repeat ALL of the Lionel trains that are being sold and are not "built to order" either come with a DC power source or can run on a DC power source.
It only takes one example to disprove your assertion of "ALL" - a quick scour over the 2019 Big Book Has many examples:
- DC operation excludes command operation and therefore features are given up and inaccessible. This is big and it is a shame Lionel doesn't make this very clear.
- pg 48 - Motorized units - They operate in Conventional or Command mode. Since TMCC/Legacy don't work with DC, and Lionel only offers fixed voltage DC supplies on pg 200, there is no Lionel supported way to operate them on DC.
- pg 126 - Lionel FA Set, as with this is conventional only, and Lionel only offers fixed voltage DC supplies on pg 200, there again is no Lionel supported way to operate them on DC.
- pg 157 hand car - same story
- pg 186, the rotary beacon is specifically AC only
- pg 201, 203 - the command and LCS components operate exclusively on AC power
Now, admittedly in certain cases I am being extremely pedantic, and there is a possibility that the trolley controller on pg 158 will become available as a separate sale item and that will allow for conventional DC control, but that remains to be seen.
Bottom line, not everything in the latest catalog (BTO exclusion or not) is DC compatible or is fully functional on DC.
TRAINS! Not hand cars or speeders. Ryan said himself the only reason they do not have LC type control is the boards won't fit in them! : )
And not accessories lol WOW that is really reaching. So Lionel sells their train sets with DC power packs and sell a 72 watt for expansion but they don't support running trains on DC? WOW is all I can say. Amazing. One special set is a maybe.........
Jim
I challenge you to find something that is not FULLY functional on AC. Recall, DC is exclusive of command control where the full feature sets lie.
I challenge you to find something thats LC, LC+, and or LC+2.0 that isnt fully functional on DC! And of a Legacy engine that isnt built to order!
Real trains used to be powered by wood, coal, or oil making steam. At one point nearly all of them did. Model trains are making that same switch but not from coal, but to DC from antiquated AC transformers. : )
Jim : )
- I doubt the majority of hobbyist here are ready to give up on command control in its current forms.
- Lionel is doing a disservice to newcomers by adding to the power supply confusion, especially ones that are not fully backwards or forwards compatible.
- At no point did I disagree that LC, LC+ and LC+2.0 could operate FULLY on DC, but there are items that do not operate FULLY on DC including anything command control. Stating that ALL trains run on DC is missing the nuances that shouldn't and wouldn't exist when adhering to the AC standard.
- AC vs DC battles are nothing new and is not analogous to coal/wood/oil etc... The AC/DC battle goes back to Edison & Tesla. In fact, DC systems predate AC.
Bottom line, scoped to the current catalog or over a century of 3 rail o gauge railroading, AC compatability vastly outnumbers DC compatability. Extremely narrowly scoped to LC, LC+, and LC+2.0, AC and DC compatability is equal.
Im just waiting for @Dave Olson to answer my question. : ) Thanks for chatting with me !!! They needed you to save the phone book when Google stole their glory! LOL
Jim
carsntrains posted:bmoran4 posted:I challenge you to find something that is not FULLY functional on AC. Recall, DC is exclusive of command control where the full feature sets lie.
I challenge you to find something thats LC, LC+, and or LC+2.0 that isnt fully functional on DC! And a Legacy engine that isnt built to order!
Real trains used to be powered by wood, coal, or oil making steam. At one point nearly all of them did. Model trains are making that same switch but not from coal, but to DC from antiquated AC transformers. : )
Are you sure you want to go down this road? None of the Legacy locomotives will run on DC, at least they scream that out on the manuals, and that includes the BT equipped models. I think it's a bit early to say if LC+ 2.0 will run on DC, but I suspect running on DC in conventional mode will be a noisy affair with LC+ 2.0 as the bell or horn will be continuously sounding!
Now let's decide if we're going to trash all our Legacy and all the older TMCC so we can convert to DC. Wait, I've already decided, it's AC for me.
Sorry that I don't see the headlong rush to DC, and I'm still at a loss as to what makes it superior to the AC that we've been using for a hundred years.
Thomas Edison also refused to give up his DC fixation. I'm certainly glad that Tesla won that battle, can you imagine trying to distribute DC power to all our homes from power generation hundreds of miles away?
gunrunnerjohn posted:carsntrains posted:bmoran4 posted:I challenge you to find something that is not FULLY functional on AC. Recall, DC is exclusive of command control where the full feature sets lie.
I challenge you to find something thats LC, LC+, and or LC+2.0 that isnt fully functional on DC! And a Legacy engine that isnt built to order!
Real trains used to be powered by wood, coal, or oil making steam. At one point nearly all of them did. Model trains are making that same switch but not from coal, but to DC from antiquated AC transformers. : )
Are you sure you want to go down this road? None of the Legacy locomotives will run on DC, at least they scream that out on the manuals, and that includes the BT equipped models. I think it's a bit early to say if LC+ 2.0 will run on DC, but I suspect running on DC in conventional mode will be a noisy affair with LC+ 2.0 as the bell or horn will be continuously sounding!
Now let's decide if we're going to trash all our Legacy and all the older TMCC so we can convert to DC. Wait, I've already decided, it's AC for me.
Sorry that I don't see the headlong rush to DC, and I'm still at a loss as to what makes it superior to the AC that we've been using for a hundred years.
Thomas Edison also refused to give up his DC fixation. I'm certainly glad that Tesla won that battle, can you imagine trying to distribute DC power to all our homes from power generation hundreds of miles away?
I was going to say that a few days back!! LMAOOOOO But I try and stay away from these discussions.
@carsntrains posted:The few of us that have bought into the DC operation of LC, LC+, and LC+2.0, are really looking forward to a bigger DC power source! I currently run 2 72 watt power supplies on my 17x11 around the room layout with no problem. But others tell me they are having problems when they run too many lit cars (probably not LED). I really thought we would see one in the new catalog, but no luck. Did notice the adjustable voltage P.E. trolley set up though. Is it just an adjustable 72 watt unit?
Jim
Edit: I also own two CW80s that have worked wonderfully! Running worn out post war locos to new ones.
Jim:
I don't know how to send you a private message (is that possible on this forum?) I was wondering how you link the two DC power supplies to your layout. I was thinking of trying this and wonder if you could help me out.
Aaron
@Aaron G., There are a few ways to accomplish this from some of these foundational bases applicable to AC or DC power sources:
- Completely isolated blocks/loops each associated with a power source
- Commons tied together and power sources divided amongs subcircuits
- Wired in parallel for greater wattage delivery
@bmoran4 posted:@Aaron G., There are a few ways to accomplish this from some of these foundational bases applicable to AC or DC power sources:
- Completely isolated blocks/loops each associated with a power source
- Commons tied together and power sources divided amongs subcircuits
- Wired in parallel for greater wattage delivery
The first seems obvious. Just get the 1 3/8" pieces (FASTRACK 1 3/8" TRACK SECTION
SKU: 6-12073) or the 5" (FASTRACK BLOCK SECTION SKU: 6-12060). I'm not sure how you'd do #2 or #3 with DC, practically speaking. Perhaps you can illuminate how this might be done.
Yes you are correct, the 1 3/8" sections allow you to create independently powered blocks, with the jumpers removed (red connectors). Note: the Orange and Purple wires are providing power (Hot side only) to two independent power blocks.
The 5" block sections aren't necessary for this purpose because you'd want to connect all the Commons/Ground connections from each transformer to all outside rails. One Hot/Positive connection from each transformer would connect to the center rail of each independent block.
On the other hand if you wanted to combine the power (increased wattage) from multiple DC wall warts by wiring them in parallel, then the positives would be connected together and the negatives together and attach each of these two wire bundles to the track. Or, the same can be accomplished by connecting two or more of the 10" straight sections with barrel jacks, plug-n-play or some other type of connectors into the same loop/block of track. Doing this, you need to make sure to match the polarities of the DC transformers, otherwise you could end up with 36Volts DC or more on the tracks. More than 18 Volts will likely cause damage.
I highly recommend looking into a more powerful AC transformer if you need to increase the available electrical current to run more trains.
Attachments
@RSJB18 posted:Run as far from a CW-80 as possible.......
I have one- can't stand it. Going to pick up a MTH Z-1000 soon.
Mostly a love 'em or hate 'em relationship from what I've read over the years
I have 2 MTH Z-1000 Transformers and they are awesome. No issues. Use your CW-80 for Accessories and when they die, doorstops!😂🤣
@Gary P posted:Use your CW-80 for Accessories and when they die, doorstops!😂🤣
Well, they do have very substantial 7-8 amp transformers hidden inside the case that are very useful for other purposes around the layout & shop.
Before such outdated information goes any further, it should be pointed out that an all-new CW80, with modified electronics (and a different product number), was due out this month. So any past comments about its flaws or usefulness will have to be re-examined.
Personally, I think Lionel should have labeled it as the CW80-2, or CW80 2.0, but they chose to keep the same exact name. At least they look slightly different.
@Jim R. posted:..Lionel should have labeled it as the CW80-2, or CW80 2.0, but they chose to keep the same exact name. At least they look slightly different.
Or DW80, following the BW, then CW, & as a less powerful relative of the GW.
@ADCX Rob posted:Or DW80, following the BW, then CW, & as a less powerful relative of the GW.
Even better.
@ADCX Rob posted:Well, they do have very substantial 7-8 amp transformers hidden inside the case that are very useful for other purposes around the layout & shop.
When one of my CW-80's died in a cloud of smoke. I tore it apart, half of the circuit board components were melted or split open and the main transformer had burned so no saving anything inside it. I cut off the cord and use it for a doorstop in the garage. I probably should dig out the rest of them in the garage in the spring that came with Lionel starter sets and sell off the ones in boxes that have never been used. I didn't get back into the hobby until late 2008 and that CW-80 was just over a year old when it cooked itself so Lionel wouldn't replace it. I went with a MTH Z-1000 transformer to replace it on advice of my local train shop, bought another one later on and I have been very happy with those 2 MTH Z-1000 Transformers that have never had any issues. I will be running modern conventional once I finish getting all the Fastrack wired up with jumper wires soldered between track sections and feeder wires every 6 pieces of track for my 2 loops, approximately 40 feet of track on the outer loop on my new layout.