Lionel F40PH Legacy

TrainGuyMcGee posted:

I just watched all the posted videos in this thread on the Lionel FP40.  Is it me, or do the engine sounds sound exactly like the SD60e's?  Are they supposed to?  The horn is different but the engine is identical.

Not a lot of differences in full load exhaust sounds between various EMD turbocharged diesel prime movers. All domestic EMD units since the Dash-2 series came out in 1972, have exhaust silencers on the turbochargers, thus they all pretty much sound the same under heavy load.

My 2 FP40s arrived today from Charles Ro and everything on them is perfect. So let's not assume they are all defective. I think Lionel did a great job on them.

My F40PH showed up, and it looks like they're all not perfect!  What do you suppose is wrong with this picture?  This is really basic stuff folks, we shouldn't be getting these like this!

Number board not lit, hatch cover so tight that it's almost impossible to get it off, and apparently the conductor took a walk, I hear him rattling around in the engine, but he's not in view!

gunrunnerjohn posted:

My F40PH showed up, and it looks like they're all not perfect!  What do you suppose is wrong with this picture?  This is really basic stuff folks, we shouldn't be getting these like this!

You've got to be kidding me! That sucks. 

I think I'm being singled out for abuse!

Trainlover9943 posted:

gunrunnerjohn posted:

My F40PH showed up, and it looks like they're all not perfect!  What do you suppose is wrong with this picture?  This is really basic stuff folks, we shouldn't be getting these like this!

You've got to be kidding me! That sucks. 

No fun at all!

I am surprised they arrive in as good of condition as they do considering the rough handling that happens during shipping. I cringe every time something is shipped to me or if I ship something. 

I'm not keen on shipping it back, but if that's the only way to get it fixed...  I don't want to open it up and then have Lionel deny warranty coverage.  I'm not a "factory trained" tech for Lionel, primarily because they don't hold schools any more, so I can't really open them up and maintain any warranty coverage. 

I suspect the number board isue is not super complex, and of course gluing the conductor back in shouldn't be a challenge.

OTOH Mark, if they can't ship them and get them to the destination in good condition, they either need to improve the packaging or get into another business!  I used to ship 75 pound video generators all around the world 25 years ago, and we never had a shipping damage issue.  Packing something that weighs 5-6 pounds so it won't get damaged in shipment should be fairly easy.

Hi John - When it comes to a F40PH / I am old school.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zelcdJP8gQQ&t=3s - Video from my YT - Channel

In my old age, I remember this story, like it was yesterday.  At the time, I owned a teen driving school and I drove the company car, to a K-Line Super Store in Indianapolis, Indiana.  I did remove the roof sign.  They are held on with three strong magnets.

This loco is a K-Line • Lionel Cab #1 / TMCC and can also be controlled with my MTH-DCS. Still runs great.

Gary:  Old school, F40PH - for about 15 years........

I was all set to bite the bullet and open it up to fix the number board light and glue the conductor in, but then I turned it over and looked a bit closer...

Say what?  Only one of the wheels is grooved for a traction tire, the other is a plain wheel!

The other truck has the correct wheels, they just forgot to install the traction tires!

That explains why it was wobbling a bit on the track...

This has to have been a Monday morning build!

Mark Mcclung posted:

I am surprised they arrive in as good of condition as they do considering the rough handling that happens during shipping. I cringe every time something is shipped to me or if I ship something. 

 This ain't shipping damage!

Dj'sOgaugetrains posted:

Trainlover9943 posted:

gunrunnerjohn posted:

My F40PH showed up, and it looks like they're all not perfect!  What do you suppose is wrong with this picture?  This is really basic stuff folks, we shouldn't be getting these like this!

You've got to be kidding me! That sucks. 

No fun at all!

Apparently, Quality Control is an issue across the industry.. One of my new MTH N&W C30-7s showed up missing a number board, at least it runs properly.. I will fabricate my own number board.. One more project..

I could have fixed the number board, fixing the wrong wheel is above and beyond.  

I've made a few number boards, once you work out a technique, they're not too difficult.  I print them white on black in high density on my laser printer in the correct size.  I use clear parts cement to stick them to clear plastic, instant number board.

Apparently, Quality Control is an issue across the industry.. One of my new MTH N&W C30-7s showed up missing a number board, at least it runs properly.. I will fabricate my own number board.. One more project..

I would disagree with this statement.  We only hear about the bad experiences on here and this forum doesn't speak for the mass majority of the market.  Yes there are quality control issues and it is I feel for those who have had bad experiences recently, but that is not industry wide.  Without getting into specific manufacturers, there are several you rarely if ever hear about quality control concerns in the O scale market. 

Well all 3 of my f40ph'S were perfect right out of the box! I was very happy about that... sometimes the new trains arrive perfect. Sometimes they don't. My legacy y-3 steamer had to go back to Lionel because it didn't respond to legacy, and back to Harry Heike because the weathering was peeling off the drivers. In my experience It's hit or miss and that's why we have Warrantees. 

can you be specific in list format what is exactly wrong? Going to check mine again this weekend. Like

1.

2.

etc

I see number board etc.

I think my conductor may be floating too now that I think about it.

Gunrunnerjohn

seems like you unit was built on April First! With the dissolving coupler, rusty cut bar, the number board, and those wheels, I think that Mike Reagan would have spit on that engine! I would send it back, and demand two free ones!

My powered and cabbage units arrived today and look terrific - nothing broken or missing and all couplers look fine. The powered unit runs and sounds great.

Unfortunately, the cabbage unit has a dead short when powered up.

I called Charles Ro this morning and was told that I will be sent a return FedEx shipping document and I was promised that the engine will either be repaired or replaced. Update: already received return shipping documents this afternoon and the cabbage is on it's way back!

It's nice to deal with a reputable dealer!

How bout some csx love.  

Nice! Any hatch problem? Conductor glued in?

To add a little brevity to the thread .....

We all know that conductors can get unglued every now and then.    Ba-bump-bump.....

GG1 4877 posted:

To add a little brevity to the thread .....

We all know that conductors can get unglued every now and then.    Ba-bump-bump.....

Good one Jonathan, except in passenger service the Conductor is BACK IN THE PASSENGER CARS. In commuter service, there is nobody else in the locomotive, or cab car, with the Engineer. In Amtrak service, there MAY be an "assistant Engineer", but that is only on long distant runs. Thus, if the "Conductor is loose" in the cab of these units, then simply take him/her out and place him/her back in the passenger cars.

Hot Water posted:

GG1 4877 posted:

To add a little brevity to the thread .....

We all know that conductors can get unglued every now and then.    Ba-bump-bump.....

Good one Jonathan, except in passenger service the Conductor is BACK IN THE PASSENGER CARS. In commuter service, there is nobody else in the locomotive, or cab car, with the Engineer. In Amtrak service, there MAY be an "assistant Engineer", but that is only on long distant runs. Thus, if the "Conductor is loose" in the cab of these units, then simply take him/her out and place him/her back in the passenger cars.

True.  Begs the question then why there are two crew members in the cab.  I have a friend who is an engineer on the "Southwest Chief" from La Junta to Kingman.  I'll ask him what the cab crew is typically.  I like the idea of having the conductor in a passenger car.  For the long distance trains, there is also the train chief to consider too.  I find them interesting to chat with when they aren't going crazy managing "hotel" staff.  Usually after the passengers head to bed is the best time.

So, who's the guy that's rattling around in the shell of the F40PH?

gunrunnerjohn posted:

So, who's the guy that's rattling around in the shell of the F40PH?

Can't be the Engineer, as he/she has to be seated behind the control stand and operate the train. Thus, it must be some unauthorized person that is "rattling around".

John Quogue RR posted:

Nice! Any hatch problem? Conductor glued in?

No issue I got an Amtrak phase 3.   And both csx units.    No issues I can find at least in reference to what I've seen listed.   No loose crew or unlighted number boards.   No missing boxes under the chassis.   Great horn on these that's for sure.   The csx units are very attractive in person.   Only gripe would be the hatch I'm honestly afraid to even try to remove it. Deafinetely poorly thought out. 

The hatch is the easiest thing to fix, I wouldn't have had any complaint if that's all that was wrong with the two units.

I got the "207" last week.  I decided to get the "200".  It arrived yesterday without anything loose or missing.  The hatch was not that hard to remove.  

Neal Jeter

Hot Water posted:

GG1 4877 posted:

To add a little brevity to the thread .....

We all know that conductors can get unglued every now and then.    Ba-bump-bump.....

Good one Jonathan, except in passenger service the Conductor is BACK IN THE PASSENGER CARS. In commuter service, there is nobody else in the locomotive, or cab car, with the Engineer. In Amtrak service, there MAY be an "assistant Engineer", but that is only on long distant runs. Thus, if the "Conductor is loose" in the cab of these units, then simply take him/her out and place him/her back in the passenger cars.

New rule.  According to the Amtrak folks on my eastbound Empire Builder last month, there are now always two people in the cab on long distance trains.

I just got my two power Phase 3 Amtrak engines.  One runs good, but the hatch is so hard to lift off, and the other the hatch is not so hard to get off, but it shorts out the track.  I cannot get it to run and it is scheduled to go back to Lionel for repair or replacement.  First time I have ever had an issue with a Lionel engine out of the box.

Goodness, are all the folks that got #364 having this kind of issue?

I have 364. Put it on track last night and now it is shorting out. Roof hatch was nearly impossible to open unless pried off. I immediately boxed it up and it is going straight to Lionel to get fixed. The roof was a disaster!

The hatch is an illustration of how a minor item can really create a problem for a manufacturer.  One little flaw really creates a firestorm.

I P/U my Amtrak #207 from Great Lakes Hobby. Out of the box I did not have any issues that have been posted above. The hatch came off if I wiggled it from side to side using the fans for leverage. On the track it ran well. Both couplers opened. No signs of pitting on the couplers.  Both number boards illuminated. I like the sound of the horn and bell.  As far as smoke I would not know because I turn off the smoke units on all my diesels. Just my preference. But I smoke my steamers to the hilt. Still using the generic crew talk. I would like to see Lionel go back to calling out the road number of the engine. I will give her a good work out at the Blue Water Train Show in Port Huron, MI  on April 23, 2017.

Victor

SO GRJ and others, Are you saying Unit #364 is "down the hatch?" 

WEll I ordered Phase II and have not herd of any issues with that loco. I am sticking with my K-line Phase II though....

If the hatch was the only problem, it would have been posted with a glowing review and the hatch mentioned as an afterthought.  I fixed the hatch on my first one in a couple of minutes as good as new.  A little fine sandpaper flat on the bench and a quick touch-up of the sides and the hatch didn't stick anymore.

As I mentioned on the other F40PH tread, the powered unit lacks weight. The pilot and truck castings are very thin. I can see lots of broken truck side frames and shattered pilots in the future due to the thin castings. Definitely these components will not take a fall to the ground as what sometimes happens. The lack in heft is a disappointment in what is otherwise a well done unit with some interesting features.

The constant cost cutting and "cheapening" seems to be a persistent constant of frustration with Lionel.  JLC always looks for ways to cut costs and that corporate philosophy is still part of Lionel to this day. Lionel saved 1/2 pound in material costs (whatever that 1/2 pound in materials cost) in the design chosen for the F40PH. It is difficult to argue with the practice since Lionel is still here when so many others have perished. Having said that, I still want my units to have the heft that is not present on the F40PH. 

If I find the weight to be too obnoxious, I'll correct it.   Here's my way of adding an extra pound to my HHP-8, did wonders for the pulling power.

Thinner side frames on the trucks and a thinner pilot are so much more prototypical.  I'd see that as a positive feature for scale enthusiasts.  That is the major complaint I've had about most cast locomotive trucks.  Athearn had this issue in HO until they finally started doing the side frames in plastic.  More flexible, less likely to break and more scale.  Many two railers will mill off the inside edge of truck side frames to make them look better. 

For added weight, the old practice was to add aftermarket weights.  Once the warranty has expired, not a hard thing to do.  I agree that a heavier locomotive provides better traction.  Based on the photos' I've seen, these look nice enough to 2 rail.