Lionel Horn Battery Replacement Question

Buck boost converter TI has some.

Bogie

Glenn,

Consider converting the required D cell battery to a 9 volt battery. I connect the + wire on the battery connector to the horn relay connection that supplied power to the horn. Connect the - ground wire on the battery connector to the engine frame. Insert a 9 volt battery in the battery connector. The horn will work, and will have a louder sound. This solution will bi pass the corrosion problem.

If the old post war horn is sluggish or still does not work you can zap the horn with 18v ac from your transformer. Spray some WD 40 into the horn. Turn the adjustment screw on the horn if necessary.  If the horn is going to work this will loosen things up and the horn usually will work. The Train Tender usually has replacement horns. I you use the 9 volt battery in one of the new replacement horns you really get a nice loud post war horn.

I hope this helps,

Richard

Any idea of the long term effect putting  9V to  the horn coil in lieu of the 1.5 V from a"D" cell.  Will this lead to  coil failure?

Ron,

i have not noticed any long term effects on the horn coil. I believe the original Lionel post war horns were essentially bicycle horns and they are quite durable.

The metal horn bracket that carries the 1.5 v DC for the horn deteriorates over time. The 9 v DC  battery solution bypasses the old metal horn bracket. I also believe that the 9v DC passes those 60+ year old horn relay contacts much easier than 1.5v DC 

Richard 

Thanks for the information.  My electrical knowledge is very limited.  I did try the 9V on a replacement horn with a temp. connection on the bench and agree the sound is much better. 

I just did the 9V conversion to my loco and WOW, the horn really gives a wake-up call now. Don't know what this means for the life expectancy of the horn, but it will be fun while it lasts.

Glenn

Glenn,

I do not think the 9v DC will hurt the horns. It is nothing more then a vibrating coil.

I am not curtain when the 9v DC battery appeared on the market, but I would think that if they were around when Lionel developed the F3 prior to the 1948 release of the 2333's Lionel would have used them instead of the 1.5v DC battery.  This is just speculation on my part.

Another advantage to the 9v  DC  battery is the corrosion problem. I can not recall ever seeing  a 9v battery leak and cause a problem. I am sure this is still a possibility, but you see corrosion problems today with modern AAA, AA C and D cell batteries that are left unattended much more then with the 9v battery.

Take care and have a good week.

Richard

Years ago I refitted my post war diesels with Radio Shack battery holders that fit 2 AA batteries. The horns work perfectly. Three volts is all you need. 

I had a battery mishap in my Lionel 2343. The battery wasn't real old but I discovered there was a small dent in the case which developed into a leak. Lesson learned: inspect new batteries carefully for physical damage. I took the entire loco apart to clean it up. Some day I'll make a battery-free horn circuit for it.

  Vic,

Good idea.

I think any thing greater than 1.5v will make the horn work better. The 9v battery was a quick fix for me since I had the 9v battery connectors and a 9v battery on hand.  The horn really has a nice high pitch  sound now.

Ouch ACE! At least you caught it before it ruined the engine. I guess back in the days when an F3 was put away after Christmas with a  battery in it the owner would find their engine ruined months later.

Thanks for sharing the pictures.

Richard

It’s been a couple of years since this thread was last posted to! That said, how’s the 9v conversion working now? Thanks for insight!

Kevin

I would imagine the greater current drawn from the 9V battery vs. the 1.5V battery makes for a short life, the amp-hour capacity of a 9V battery is MUCH LESS than a 1.5V D-cell.

I'd have gone with a variable power supply from track power.

Thanks, John. I am about 2 months into this adventure. I have middle school electronics know how, so I might need a bit more coaching on this. I found something like the LM317 variable power supply and can figure out the Vin/Vout, but how do you control the adjust from the track power? If that doesn’t make sense, feel free to destroy the question and explain for a newbie!

Thank you, sir.

Kevin

Here is a 2343 repaint on Erie that I converted 9 volt battery power for the horn.

John,

Please tell us about the power supply you mentioned.

Thanks,

Richard

You can "tune" this one to any output voltage you like.

I installed a "horn battery replacement kit" from Royz Trains in my postwar GG1.

www.royztrains.com

It was an easy install and works great.

It works in any postwar loco with the bicycle horn.

What’s the cost?

Thanks,

Richard

Per his website, $10.00

Shipping is first class mail.

Jeff

Appreciate It!

Richard

Thanks for this information. I am working on a Texas Special with severe battery corrosion right now.

Here's some pictures of the inside. Looks like she went down with the Titanic! The battery is an Eveready from the 1950s and I'm guessing that it was probably the first and last battery that was ever put in the engine. I stripped the frame bare and was able to salvage the eunit. After much grinding and wire wheel with the Dremel, I got the frame cleaned to make it usable. It has alot of corrosion scars but for now I'm leaving the shell original so it's not too bad. If I ever do a full restoration I'd replace the frame. I'm guessing the engine has very little run time on it, the rollers have no grooves and the motor and eunit both still work very smoothly. The horn relay still worked but was too rotted to use so I got a replacement from ebay. A new relay bracket from Train Tender and everything works well.