Good Day Lionel,

 

As you know the F3 ’s and F7’s are popular engines. What I’d suggest for S Scale.....................F3 or F7 ABA sets or perhaps offer AA sets. In addition offer separately a powered B Unit and a non powered B Unit. Present these engines with Legacy Control and Legacy RailSounds would be spectacular. Offer to versions: Version 1 for Hi-Rail and Version 2 for Scale Wheels, fixed pilots and coupler pockets to accommodate the Kadee couplers. To save on interior space of the engine, no smoke.

 

Regards,

Swafford

 

       Drawing by Michael Eby          Painted by Frank Swafford

FRISCO F7 ABA SET V5

Texas Special F3 ABA Set V2

 

C&0 F7 ABA SET V1

KCS F7 ABA SET V3

 

  

 

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Original Post

Because both SHS and American Models offer F units in many rooad names, I'd like to see Lionel offer diesels in AF that have not been done (of which there are many!). The SHS versions, in particular, are really sharp and would be very stiff competition for any newcomers.

 

Bob Bubeck

Swafford, you and I think a lot alike I REALLY want Lionel to do this too!

 

I have owned SHS F-7s and they are nicely detailed, but with the giant horizontal motor there is precious little room for electronics. They are also somewhat noisy for some reason. The American models FP-7s are really old tooling with very little detail. They are fine if you want to do a lot of detailing work, but not a very nice model out of the box IMHO. They also suffer from a lack of interior space.

 

I say Lionel should give them the full Legacy treatment. Leave out smoke if needed to make room inside. They should build them like the old P&D O scale F units with one vertical motor powering the trailing truck. That leaves plenty of room for Legacy and Railsounds and maybe even enough to do a detailed cab interior I can't even think about how many I would buy if they made roads I like.

 

Hey Swafford, do me a favor and paint some in Erie Lackawanna for me so I have something to drool over

 

Once these are made then we can talk about some GP-7/9s and GP-30s

-Jonathan

 

Swafford, you had me at the Friscos!  I too would like to see some F-units from Lionel that are like what you describe and have the detail of their current scale versions.  I have an ABBA set of the SHS F3's and they are very well built, but like Jonnyspeed mentioned they are very limited on interior space.  I've also come to notice that while they run quite smoothly, they have ALOT of motor noise.  I would also add, that as of late, these units have become VERY expensive if you can even find them.  The last couple I have seen on Ebay went for $750 - $825 range for just the A-B pair!!    All things considered, I cannot see these units being much real competition if Lionel chose to bring some new ones out.  As much as I like mine, I would prefer to have something with Legacy and Railsounds, too.

 

 

 

"Moreover, experience proves that there is virtually no limit to the amount of cars, track, equipment, etc., the scale model railroader will buy once you have planted the "system" idea in his head. The more he has, the more he still wants." A.C. Gilbert Co. - 1947

One can image what Legacy F-units might be like and I can see the appeal. However, we are missing so much in S, I would prefer to see Lionel devote new tooling to, well, things new. We expect SHS to be back soon, so their F's should become available again and prices should settle back on the secondary market. Sharknoses in affordable plastic (River Raisin did them in brass), for example, would be higher on my list. For reasons of financial health, I would not like to see our small manufacturers of S go head to head on the same items, when possible.

 

Also, if Lionel does F-units or other diesels for AF, I wish smoke to be included as a feature. I am not interested in stripped down versions. AF diesels are now costing like their 0 gauge brethren, so I expect them to be equivalent feature-for feature.

 

Bob Bubeck

Originally Posted by CSX Troy:

Swafford, you had me at the Friscos!  I too would like to see some F-units from Lionel that are like what you describe and have the detail of their current scale versions.  I have an ABBA set of the SHS F3's and they are very well built, but like Jonnyspeed mentioned they are very limited on interior space.  I've also come to notice that while they run quite smoothly, they have ALOT of motor noise.  I would also add, that as of late, these units have become VERY expensive if you can even find them.  The last couple I have seen on Ebay went for $750 - $825 range for just the A-B pair!!    All things considered, I cannot see these units being much real competition if Lionel chose to bring some new ones out.  As much as I like mine, I would prefer to have something with Legacy and Railsounds, too.

This bring up the conundrum (today's $5.00 word) with manufacturing trains for S.  Design for scale and adapt for Flyer or design for Flyer and adapt for scale.

 

HO and N have it easy.  DC or DCC.

 

SHS, AM and very likely, the SSA SD45 were/will be designed for scale with the Flyer adaptation.  The new Lionel/Flyer is the opposite.  Both design philosophies require a different approach and I don't see any of these companies changing their approach drastically. 

 

We've seen in CTO Jon's posting on the dual motor SD70 tread that this is no easy task by the attempt with the U33C.  And frankly, if and until Lionel can sufficiently miniaturize the Legacy electronics, (or a different system come to take its place) this will always be the case.

 

Life was a lot simpler when all you had to worry about was designing for straight DC or three-position reverse unit.

 

At least we don't have to worry about that middle rail!

 

Rusty

Originally Posted by Rusty Traque:
Originally Posted by CSX Troy:
 

This bring up the conundrum (today's $5.00 word) with manufacturing trains for S.  Design for scale and adapt for Flyer or design for Flyer and adapt for scale.

 

HO and N have it easy.  DC or DCC.

 

SHS, AM and very likely, the SSA SD45 were/will be designed for scale with the Flyer adaptation.  The new Lionel/Flyer is the opposite.  Both design philosophies require a different approach and I don't see any of these companies changing their approach drastically. 

 

We've seen in CTO Jon's posting on the dual motor SD70 tread that this is no easy task by the attempt with the U33C.  And frankly, if and until Lionel can sufficiently miniaturize the Legacy electronics, (or a different system come to take its place) this will always be the case.

 

Life was a lot simpler when all you had to worry about was designing for straight DC or three-position reverse unit.

 

At least we don't have to worry about that middle rail!

 

Rusty

I did not know you could use the word conundrum on a family forum!!  It will be interesting to see how Lionel navigates this situation.  Traditionally, they have not moved to accomodate the DCC crowd with their O scale product. However, I do get the impression that this may be a consideration for S.  I like having options for manufacturers, but I'm also worn out from the compapability wars during my 3 rail days.  To this point, I only know that for me, I'm only using one control system from here on out and it will either be conventional AC or Legacy.  With the stuff comming from the big L these days, I just may be compelled go back to Legacy.  The additional motivator for me may be in using Legacy and SC-2's to run the entire layout with the remote.

 

Lastly,  Mr. Swafford......any more crazy ideas like Erie F-units from you and I may just nominate you for: Director - Product Development at Lionel.  You have a real eye for color and how paint schemes apply to various diesels. 

 

 

 

"Moreover, experience proves that there is virtually no limit to the amount of cars, track, equipment, etc., the scale model railroader will buy once you have planted the "system" idea in his head. The more he has, the more he still wants." A.C. Gilbert Co. - 1947

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