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Hi everybody,

I need some help please. It may be something simple I am missing.  I was trying to address my new Locomotive and have had some difficulty understanding the instructions and what to do.  Each unit including the extra super bass B unit I got has a program/run button. They way I was understanding it, I can assign an individual ID to each unit and then build a lash-up with it. So I programed an ID for the lead unit, (the road no. is 6000, So I assigned the A unit 60, and was going to address the other two B units 61 and 62.)  I put the Powered B unit on the track, turned the power on, pressed engine and 61 and hit set, nothing happened, tried to turn it to run, and move the train, nothing.   So in the instructions it talked about same train addressing and same engine addressing, but did not expand on it, or give examples of how to do it.  Like I said, the A unit worked fine, but when I tried to address the powered b unit, nothing.  Do I need to put all three units on the track at the same time to address all three units with the same number? I am lost.  Any help would be greatly appreciated.

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@rscott posted:

Hi everybody,

I need some help please. It may be something simple I am missing.  I was trying to address my new Locomotive and have had some difficulty understanding the instructions and what to do.  Each unit including the extra super bass B unit I got has a program/run button. They way I was understanding it, I can assign an individual ID to each unit and then build a lash-up with it. So I programed an ID for the lead unit, (the road no. is 6000, So I assigned the A unit 60, and was going to address the other two B units 61 and 62.)  I put the Powered B unit on the track, turned the power on, pressed engine and 61 and hit set, nothing happened, tried to turn it to run, and move the train, nothing.   So in the instructions it talked about same train addressing and same engine addressing, but did not expand on it, or give examples of how to do it.  Like I said, the A unit worked fine, but when I tried to address the powered b unit, nothing.  Do I need to put all three units on the track at the same time to address all three units with the same number? I am lost.  Any help would be greatly appreciated.

You description creating the lashing looks good.  It can be confusing because a powered engine with no sound will not give the honk honk when set.  A way to confirm is to power up and run.   Movement is really the only way I confirm.

I have the exact same set.  It works for me.  It works well and avoids double speak from your powered and Superbass making announcements etc.  I do’t think you can do that by giving all the same ID.



I have the exact same set.  It works for me.  It works well and avoids double speak from your powered and Superbass making announcements etc.  I do’t think you can do that by giving all the same ID.

Depending on the vintage, the newer multiple unit sets have a switch to turn off "crew talk" so they can all be assigned the same IDs and not have "double speak".

I have one of the newest A-A sets (a dealer special run of UP 949 and 951, which are E8/9s). I've never understood why Lionel's manuals don't make it clear that out of the box, these sets are designed to run correctly if both units have the same ID. You will know that from experience if you have one of the older sets, but that's not because the manual says so in clear terms; it was reported to be such on various forum postings and then eventually in a Lionel video.  I generally test mine first without changing the IDs from the factory default just to be sure they function.

In my set, both of the units are powered but only one has sound and by default the other one without sound is the rear unit. The lighting in it will default to rear-facing right out of the box.

I set up mine to have the same ID. The same dealer has issued a Superbass B unit, but it is an E7 numbered to go with the A-A set. I have not run them in combo yet but I am inclined to use Norton's approach, which is simpler than a lash-up. Not sure what manual the OP has got but I found one that covers all of the E7 A-A, A-B and extra B units, whether powered or Superbass. This is a little more specific about setting up these combos to run either with separate IDs or with one. But you have to look deep into the manual to find it at page 40 of the copy linked below.

https://www.lionelsupport.com/...010250E7AABUnits.pdf

I can't help thinking that manufacturing these with the capacity for several different control methods, including Bluetooth, complicates matters for the likes of me who only wants to use Legacy.

Hancock52,

How does it complicate things?

If you only want to use Legacy you have just one step to deal with:

  1.) Turn Bluetooth switch to "off".

(Your two other major choices are within Legacy itself, "Lashup" or "Same ID".)

Mike

Yes, I get that - my point is that the boards themselves being designed to accommodate numerous control options are more complicated than I need - as witness having to turn off Bluetooth to change IDs. There are other issues with these sets that aren't the subject of this thread, including quirky lighting and sound that didn't arise under older versions of Legacy that did not have all the other control options. It's not a big deal but a personal irritation for me!

Ok.  Fair enough, but your problem then is with complications and inconsistencies in the implementation of Legacy, admittedly very complex.

Using the built in Bluetooth implementation might actually make things less complicated because it's come from the less-complicated LionChief part of the product line.

Why not use Bluetooth instead of Legacy?  It may take the headaches away.

Mike

Ok.  Fair enough, but your problem then is with complications and inconsistencies in the implementation of Legacy, admittedly very complex.

Using the built in Bluetooth implementation might actually make things less complicated because it's come from the less-complicated LionChief part of the product line.

Why not use Bluetooth instead of Legacy?  It may take the headaches away.

Mike

I have tried Bluetooth with my pair of E8/9s and a VL engine equipped with it and didn't like it - OK, maybe I'm old and fussy, and did not give it a fair crack of the whip, but it doesn't really seem to cater for more fully featured engines that I have, most of which were made before the current incarnation of BT. I'll shut up now and think about trying the WiFi app again - for the dreaded day when there are no CAB2s being made.

Ok.  Fair enough, but your problem then is with complications and inconsistencies in the implementation of Legacy, admittedly very complex.

Using the built in Bluetooth implementation might actually make things less complicated because it's come from the less-complicated LionChief part of the product line.

Why not use Bluetooth instead of Legacy?  It may take the headaches away.

Mike

Mike makes a good point.  Go that way now for enjoyment and don’t stop trying to get CAB 2 to work for you.  


FWIW, I do’t see Lionel giving up a remote.  If they did there would be a vacuum of product, with a limited but passionate buyer demanding it.

The apps lack of discernible, tactile and real single hand operation will only get worse with age.

What is the product number?   I can go through my steps and compare to you original post.  I have some E units on the layout (Diesel  Week).  I wii go through set up and try to tell you what is amiss.  Worst case scenerio, I can give you my phone number and we can do it together.

I give all my A-B diesels - Superbass and Powered individual IDs for a few reasons:

  • Troubleshooting - if one of the units is having a problem I can address it individually and figure out the issue
  • Creating a train in most cases will give me the correct sounds and lighting setup without having to flip switches on each unit


I'm not sure why your B units aren't responding. The Superbass B should make a sound when it's set with an address, the powered B unit will probably do nothing, although the rear backup light might blink.

If you address them individually the Superbass should power on with sounds and the Powered B should move with the throttle. Is that not happening in your case?

The key to programming a new ID is to turn off bluetooth. Using them in a lashup is personal preference. No harder to troubleshoot a consist if they all have the same ID number, Just put the suspected bad actor on the track by itself. Lionel created that feature to make it easier to set up. Save the two extra IDs for other engines.



Pete

@Norton posted:

The key to programming a new ID is to turn off bluetooth. Using them in a lashup is personal preference. No harder to troubleshoot a consist if they all have the same ID number, Just put the suspected bad actor on the track by itself. Lionel created that feature to make it easier to set up. Save the two extra IDs for other engines.



Pete

Not sure I understand about turning off Bluetooth. You shouldn't have to do that. The Legacy radio and Bluetooth are mutually exclusive. The TMCC/Legacy ID is using an entirely different frequency and channel when communicating with the base, where Bluetooth has its own private comm channel setup.

I own several Legacy Diesels ABA and ABBA units with Bluetooth and I have never turned off that feature to assign or change IDs.


I think when Bluetooth is on, there is some communication between the units of a set.  I've read where if the Bluetooth is left on for the rear A unit, it will not operate on it's own.  I suspect it behaves this way since when running a MU consist with Bluetooth it needs to sync all of the units.  I'm not sure if this is a new "feature" or not.

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