Having an issue with one of my new Legacy PA A units. No matter what I set its ID to, once the track is powered down it resets itself back to default ID #1. It also forgets being programmed into the "lashup" even if loaded in as id #1 so I have to rebuild the train each time in the remote. Other than this all features work. Any ideas? 

Original Post
Surefire posted:

Having an issue with one of my new Legacy PA A units. No matter what I set its ID to, once the track is powered down it resets itself back to default ID #1. It also forgets being programmed into the "lashup" even if loaded in as id #1 so I have to rebuild the train each time in the remote. Other than this all features work. Any ideas? 

Funny you mention that.  I started having the same issue.  I have to put in "pgm" and set it very often.  I am not crazy about stopping them too far in the back of the layout.  Doesn't happen all of the time.  Probably 1/2 the time.  I was going to post this, but you beat me too it.

The B and trailing A are fine.

Bryant

TCA 18-73717

BNSF-Matt posted:

Update: all 3 are forgetting their ID now. Both A units and the B unit. Frustrating to say the least at this point. 

The thing that makes this difficult is getting it to happen predictably.  Try explaining this and having Lionel duplicate the problem.  At least we have a month before we could ship anything back.  I'm sure as more people experience this, the wheel will get the grease.

Bryant

TCA 18-73717

I'm guessing it's bad EPROM chips, or whatever memory chip on the main board that holds the programmed ID. I can't see myself reprogramming each one and creating a train after every track power on. I will probably create one more video and then pack them up until I can get them fixed. I have plenty of other trains to run, shame because these are really nice too, but I'm sure Lionel will get it resolved.

BNSF-Matt posted:

I'm guessing it's bad EPROM chips, or whatever memory chip on the main board that holds the programmed ID. I can't see myself reprogramming each one and creating a train after every track power on. I will probably create one more video and then pack them up until I can get them fixed. I have plenty of other trains to run, shame because these are really nice too, but I'm sure Lionel will get it resolved.

Does yours do this every time?  Mine does it about every 3 or 4 times.  I originally thought bad pgm/run switch.  But you and a couple others with the same problem, tells me it is more inside the program or hardware.  I'm sure the problem will be a multiple pager when posted.  A lot of people bought these ALCOs.

Bryant

TCA 18-73717

I have a similar issue with an AC-9 steamer which won’t take a new ID at all. Thought it was likely to be a RUN/PGM switch issue but I haven’t tried replacing that yet. If however you can get a new ID to “take” but it won’t stay in memory that definitely suggests a board issue, which only Lionel can (and should) address.

BNSF-Matt posted:

They all reset to the default ID#1 for me. Which can technically work, but I can't run an ABA because the rear A needs to have a direction change.

Aren’t both A’s set to the same default from the factory? If so, could you run them as an engine because the trailing unit defaults to run backwards out of the box?

Also I noticed if I flip the Program run switch back-and-forth many times the problem has not occurred for me for about the last 10 inches start up cycles

Bryant

TCA 18-73717

Bryant Dunivan 111417 posted:

Aren’t both A’s set to the same default from the factory? If so, could you run them as an engine because the trailing unit defaults to run backwards out of the box?

That's been my experience with Legacy A-A sets. If you change the engine ID of both to the same number, they still run that way. So they don't need to be lashed up (Ooops, said the dirty word) as you'd do under Legacy with unpaired powered engines. I always wondered how Lionel managed this but never inquired. 

BNSF-Matt posted:

They all reset to the default ID#1 for me. Which can technically work, but I can't run an ABA because the rear A needs to have a direction change.

That won't work. Have some new guest units over with the default address of 1 and I won't change their ID since they're not mine. 

PeterA posted:

Glad to see this post.  Almost sent mine back, too.  I have the same problem and thought it was something on my layout triggering the problem.  Let's hope Dave Olsen sees these post and chimes in.  

If you want Dave Olson to see it, mark it to get his attention. @Dave Olson

Jim R. 

Dave Olson posted:

These will need to come into Service to be reprogrammed. Service should start accepting repairs again sometime in July once the move is finished.

Ouch Dave.  You sold a ton of these.  From what I see, they can be manipulated to work until then.  I really like my NYC set.  Sorry about your misfortune.  Thought it only happens in my business.

Bryant

TCA 18-73717

BNSF-MATT,

       I have a set of PRR Century Club Sharks where both A units are powered. One of the units starts up in forward and the other starts in reverse. I programmed them both with the same number and they run fine. Try setting up your ABA set all with number 1. If the A units start up in the correct directions (one forward one reverse) you will be in business until Lionel can reprogram your engines.

JohnB

JohnB posted:

BNSF-MATT,

       I have a set of PRR Century Club Sharks where both A units are powered. One of the units starts up in forward and the other starts in reverse. I programmed them both with the same number and they run fine. Try setting up your ABA set all with number 1. If the A units start up in the correct directions (one forward one reverse) you will be in business until Lionel can reprogram your engines.

JohnB

Thank you! I will try setting them up like that this afternoon.

Hi everyone...I have the NYC version (#1933180). I haven’t been having the same problems as those on this thread, only because I run it on the factory setting of engine 1. However I have encountered  another problem which you might want to look out for. Several times since I started running the set the rear unit has lost signal and either stopped dead or after I put in a direction change kept going in the old direction. In any case this led to one engine trying to pull the other or the two engines pulling against each other, resulting in a horrible sound and trauma to the operator  (me)! I assumed it was a bad connection on the track or dirt on the track but after cleaning everything up it was still happening. I just figured out what the problem is. When I took a look underneath the rear unit I found that the two pick up rollers in the rear of truck do not roll at all and were covered in crud. Basically those two rollers were acting as a track cleaner! I was thinking of trying to oil the rollers but since the front unit also has a problem which is an incessant ticking sound that I can’t seem to isolate I think I’m going to return the set. It’s a shame that we are all having these problems because it is a really beautiful engine.

Pete that was just the last straw...the set had other problems already...the units don't run straight on the track..really weird but true...the lead A has a loud ticking sound at all times...checked rollers, gears, etc...can't eliminate it no matter what I try. And as for oiling the rollers..some say you should NEVER do that, but I would try it if that were the only problem. 

BNSF-Matt posted:
JohnB posted:

BNSF-MATT,

       I have a set of PRR Century Club Sharks where both A units are powered. One of the units starts up in forward and the other starts in reverse. I programmed them both with the same number and they run fine. Try setting up your ABA set all with number 1. If the A units start up in the correct directions (one forward one reverse) you will be in business until Lionel can reprogram your engines.

JohnB

Thank you! I will try setting them up like that this afternoon.

This might be a wild one.  I have been able to power down/up my aba as a makeup around 10 times so far.  What I did when I assigned the number was to turn the switch from program to run without turning off the transformer power.  I could then shut the engine down and restart.  It also operated properly without shutting the engine down after assigning the number.  Give that a try.  Who knows, for whatever reason it may hold the ID indefinitely.  We will have time to try before they are ready to open the service department.

Big L, please make sure the VL Challengers are right before you ship them.  Bad enough to pack an A unit.  Don't want to think about shipping a $2K engine through common carriers.  Never a pleasant experience.  Also, the backlog will be overwhelming.

Give the switch without transformer power down.  It may work.

Bryant

TCA 18-73717

JamesRx posted:

Hi everyone...I have the NYC version (#1933180). I haven’t been having the same problems as those on this thread, only because I run it on the factory setting of engine 1. However I have encountered  another problem which you might want to look out for. Several times since I started running the set the rear unit has lost signal and either stopped dead or after I put in a direction change kept going in the old direction. In any case this led to one engine trying to pull the other or the two engines pulling against each other, resulting in a horrible sound and trauma to the operator  (me)! I assumed it was a bad connection on the track or dirt on the track but after cleaning everything up it was still happening. I just figured out what the problem is. When I took a look underneath the rear unit I found that the two pick up rollers in the rear of truck do not roll at all and were covered in crud. Basically those two rollers were acting as a track cleaner! I was thinking of trying to oil the rollers but since the front unit also has a problem which is an incessant ticking sound that I can’t seem to isolate I think I’m going to return the set. It’s a shame that we are all having these problems because it is a really beautiful engine.

You are doing the right thing. So sad. This should just about do it for the big “L”. 

Rod Miller

JamesRx posted:

Pete that was just the last straw...the set had other problems already...the units don't run straight on the track..really weird but true...the lead A has a loud ticking sound at all times...checked rollers, gears, etc...can't eliminate it no matter what I try. And as for oiling the rollers..some say you should NEVER do that, but I would try it if that were the only problem. 

I remember MTH stating that rollers should be oiled to allow better conductivity to minimize light flicker in passenger cars.  From my experience, what they instruct is true.  I agree with Norton.  I oil all of my rollers with 3 in 1 PTFE.  I think the oil has Teflon.  Works for me.  Put red and tacky on the gears and it should be very smooth.  I do this with all of my engines and cars as I unpack them.  Has not failed me yet.  I hope yours comes around.  Work on 1 problem at a time.  I think the engines are beautiful and would hate to see an engine lose its home and obviously a passionate train collector.

Bryant

TCA 18-73717

I'm to the point that defective trains are no longer an option for me at the prices we pay. I will work with this A unit but if it won't come around they are simply getting returned. Not going through the double whammy of having to send them back and the place I need to send them to isn't even accepting warranty work. After the Mogul fiasco I told myself never again. 

 

Bryant Dunivan 111417 posted:
JamesRx posted:

Pete that was just the last straw...the set had other problems already...the units don't run straight on the track..really weird but true...the lead A has a loud ticking sound at all times...checked rollers, gears, etc...can't eliminate it no matter what I try. And as for oiling the rollers..some say you should NEVER do that, but I would try it if that were the only problem. 

I remember MTH stating that rollers should be oiled to allow better conductivity to minimize light flicker in passenger cars.  From my experience, what they instruct is true.  I agree with Norton.  I oil all of my rollers with 3 in 1 PTFE.  I think the oil has Teflon.  Works for me.  Put red and tacky on the gears and it should be very smooth.  I do this with all of my engines and cars as I unpack them.  Has not failed me yet.  I hope yours comes around.  Work on 1 problem at a time.  I think the engines are beautiful and would hate to see an engine lose its home and obviously a passionate train collector.

I oil all my pickup rollers with Labelle 107. No electrical pickup issues and everything runs great. 

Santa Fe, All the Way

Bryant Dunivan 111417 posted:
JamesRx posted:

Pete that was just the last straw...the set had other problems already...the units don't run straight on the track..really weird but true...the lead A has a loud ticking sound at all times...checked rollers, gears, etc...can't eliminate it no matter what I try. And as for oiling the rollers..some say you should NEVER do that, but I would try it if that were the only problem. 

I remember MTH stating that rollers should be oiled to allow better conductivity to minimize light flicker in passenger cars.  From my experience, what they instruct is true.  I agree with Norton.  I oil all of my rollers with 3 in 1 PTFE.  I think the oil has Teflon.  Works for me.  Put red and tacky on the gears and it should be very smooth.  I do this with all of my engines and cars as I unpack them.  Has not failed me yet.  I hope yours comes around.  Work on 1 problem at a time.  I think the engines are beautiful and would hate to see an engine lose its home and obviously a passionate train collector.

Bryant thank you so much for your reply. I was actually starting to put them back in the box, but you have inspired me. I could learn a lot from good folks like you and Norton (Pete). I'm going to keep them and see if I can't fix them myself. Thanks again!

JamesRx posted:
Bryant Dunivan 111417 posted:
JamesRx posted:

Pete that was just the last straw...the set had other problems already...the units don't run straight on the track..really weird but true...the lead A has a loud ticking sound at all times...checked rollers, gears, etc...can't eliminate it no matter what I try. And as for oiling the rollers..some say you should NEVER do that, but I would try it if that were the only problem. 

I remember MTH stating that rollers should be oiled to allow better conductivity to minimize light flicker in passenger cars.  From my experience, what they instruct is true.  I agree with Norton.  I oil all of my rollers with 3 in 1 PTFE.  I think the oil has Teflon.  Works for me.  Put red and tacky on the gears and it should be very smooth.  I do this with all of my engines and cars as I unpack them.  Has not failed me yet.  I hope yours comes around.  Work on 1 problem at a time.  I think the engines are beautiful and would hate to see an engine lose its home and obviously a passionate train collector.

Bryant thank you so much for your reply. I was actually starting to put them back in the box, but you have inspired me. I could learn a lot from good folks like you and Norton (Pete). I'm going to keep them and see if I can't fix them myself. Thanks again!

That's the spirit.  You can go to my profile for my email address if you want.  We will all get through this.

The good news is that you are not alone and others want to fix this just as badly.

Bryant

TCA 18-73717

One more thing....when you all get a chance can you check if your front electrocoupler is working? Mine is not because the little white plug that powers the coupler is not plugged in. Twisted off the lion drive truck, spent a good hour getting the plug back in (due to an impossibly short cord on the plug) and then when I twisted the truck back on the plugged pulled out again! Fortunately I never really use the coupler on the lead engine, but still...

Bryant Dunivan 111417 posted:
JamesRx posted:
Bryant Dunivan 111417 posted:
JamesRx posted:

Pete that was just the last straw...the set had other problems already...the units don't run straight on the track..really weird but true...the lead A has a loud ticking sound at all times...checked rollers, gears, etc...can't eliminate it no matter what I try. And as for oiling the rollers..some say you should NEVER do that, but I would try it if that were the only problem. 

I remember MTH stating that rollers should be oiled to allow better conductivity to minimize light flicker in passenger cars.  From my experience, what they instruct is true.  I agree with Norton.  I oil all of my rollers with 3 in 1 PTFE.  I think the oil has Teflon.  Works for me.  Put red and tacky on the gears and it should be very smooth.  I do this with all of my engines and cars as I unpack them.  Has not failed me yet.  I hope yours comes around.  Work on 1 problem at a time.  I think the engines are beautiful and would hate to see an engine lose its home and obviously a passionate train collector.

Bryant thank you so much for your reply. I was actually starting to put them back in the box, but you have inspired me. I could learn a lot from good folks like you and Norton (Pete). I'm going to keep them and see if I can't fix them myself. Thanks again!

That's the spirit.  You can go to my profile for my email address if you want.  We will all get through this.

The good news is that you are not alone and others want to fix this just as badly.

Thanks again Bryant!

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