Having an issue with one of my new Legacy PA A units. No matter what I set its ID to, once the track is powered down it resets itself back to default ID #1. It also forgets being programmed into the "lashup" even if loaded in as id #1 so I have to rebuild the train each time in the remote. Other than this all features work. Any ideas? 

Original Post
Surefire posted:

Having an issue with one of my new Legacy PA A units. No matter what I set its ID to, once the track is powered down it resets itself back to default ID #1. It also forgets being programmed into the "lashup" even if loaded in as id #1 so I have to rebuild the train each time in the remote. Other than this all features work. Any ideas? 

Funny you mention that.  I started having the same issue.  I have to put in "pgm" and set it very often.  I am not crazy about stopping them too far in the back of the layout.  Doesn't happen all of the time.  Probably 1/2 the time.  I was going to post this, but you beat me too it.

The B and trailing A are fine.

Bryant

TCA 18-73717

BNSF-Matt posted:

Update: all 3 are forgetting their ID now. Both A units and the B unit. Frustrating to say the least at this point. 

The thing that makes this difficult is getting it to happen predictably.  Try explaining this and having Lionel duplicate the problem.  At least we have a month before we could ship anything back.  I'm sure as more people experience this, the wheel will get the grease.

Bryant

TCA 18-73717

I'm guessing it's bad EPROM chips, or whatever memory chip on the main board that holds the programmed ID. I can't see myself reprogramming each one and creating a train after every track power on. I will probably create one more video and then pack them up until I can get them fixed. I have plenty of other trains to run, shame because these are really nice too, but I'm sure Lionel will get it resolved.

BNSF-Matt posted:

I'm guessing it's bad EPROM chips, or whatever memory chip on the main board that holds the programmed ID. I can't see myself reprogramming each one and creating a train after every track power on. I will probably create one more video and then pack them up until I can get them fixed. I have plenty of other trains to run, shame because these are really nice too, but I'm sure Lionel will get it resolved.

Does yours do this every time?  Mine does it about every 3 or 4 times.  I originally thought bad pgm/run switch.  But you and a couple others with the same problem, tells me it is more inside the program or hardware.  I'm sure the problem will be a multiple pager when posted.  A lot of people bought these ALCOs.

Bryant

TCA 18-73717

I have a similar issue with an AC-9 steamer which won’t take a new ID at all. Thought it was likely to be a RUN/PGM switch issue but I haven’t tried replacing that yet. If however you can get a new ID to “take” but it won’t stay in memory that definitely suggests a board issue, which only Lionel can (and should) address.

BNSF-Matt posted:

They all reset to the default ID#1 for me. Which can technically work, but I can't run an ABA because the rear A needs to have a direction change.

Aren’t both A’s set to the same default from the factory? If so, could you run them as an engine because the trailing unit defaults to run backwards out of the box?

Also I noticed if I flip the Program run switch back-and-forth many times the problem has not occurred for me for about the last 10 inches start up cycles

Bryant

TCA 18-73717

Bryant Dunivan 111417 posted:

Aren’t both A’s set to the same default from the factory? If so, could you run them as an engine because the trailing unit defaults to run backwards out of the box?

That's been my experience with Legacy A-A sets. If you change the engine ID of both to the same number, they still run that way. So they don't need to be lashed up (Ooops, said the dirty word) as you'd do under Legacy with unpaired powered engines. I always wondered how Lionel managed this but never inquired. 

BNSF-Matt posted:

They all reset to the default ID#1 for me. Which can technically work, but I can't run an ABA because the rear A needs to have a direction change.

That won't work. Have some new guest units over with the default address of 1 and I won't change their ID since they're not mine. 

PeterA posted:

Glad to see this post.  Almost sent mine back, too.  I have the same problem and thought it was something on my layout triggering the problem.  Let's hope Dave Olsen sees these post and chimes in.  

If you want Dave Olson to see it, mark it to get his attention. @Dave Olson

Jim R. 

Dave Olson posted:

These will need to come into Service to be reprogrammed. Service should start accepting repairs again sometime in July once the move is finished.

Ouch Dave.  You sold a ton of these.  From what I see, they can be manipulated to work until then.  I really like my NYC set.  Sorry about your misfortune.  Thought it only happens in my business.

Bryant

TCA 18-73717

BNSF-MATT,

       I have a set of PRR Century Club Sharks where both A units are powered. One of the units starts up in forward and the other starts in reverse. I programmed them both with the same number and they run fine. Try setting up your ABA set all with number 1. If the A units start up in the correct directions (one forward one reverse) you will be in business until Lionel can reprogram your engines.

JohnB

JohnB posted:

BNSF-MATT,

       I have a set of PRR Century Club Sharks where both A units are powered. One of the units starts up in forward and the other starts in reverse. I programmed them both with the same number and they run fine. Try setting up your ABA set all with number 1. If the A units start up in the correct directions (one forward one reverse) you will be in business until Lionel can reprogram your engines.

JohnB

Thank you! I will try setting them up like that this afternoon.

Hi everyone...I have the NYC version (#1933180). I haven’t been having the same problems as those on this thread, only because I run it on the factory setting of engine 1. However I have encountered  another problem which you might want to look out for. Several times since I started running the set the rear unit has lost signal and either stopped dead or after I put in a direction change kept going in the old direction. In any case this led to one engine trying to pull the other or the two engines pulling against each other, resulting in a horrible sound and trauma to the operator  (me)! I assumed it was a bad connection on the track or dirt on the track but after cleaning everything up it was still happening. I just figured out what the problem is. When I took a look underneath the rear unit I found that the two pick up rollers in the rear of truck do not roll at all and were covered in crud. Basically those two rollers were acting as a track cleaner! I was thinking of trying to oil the rollers but since the front unit also has a problem which is an incessant ticking sound that I can’t seem to isolate I think I’m going to return the set. It’s a shame that we are all having these problems because it is a really beautiful engine.

Pete that was just the last straw...the set had other problems already...the units don't run straight on the track..really weird but true...the lead A has a loud ticking sound at all times...checked rollers, gears, etc...can't eliminate it no matter what I try. And as for oiling the rollers..some say you should NEVER do that, but I would try it if that were the only problem. 

BNSF-Matt posted:
JohnB posted:

BNSF-MATT,

       I have a set of PRR Century Club Sharks where both A units are powered. One of the units starts up in forward and the other starts in reverse. I programmed them both with the same number and they run fine. Try setting up your ABA set all with number 1. If the A units start up in the correct directions (one forward one reverse) you will be in business until Lionel can reprogram your engines.

JohnB

Thank you! I will try setting them up like that this afternoon.

This might be a wild one.  I have been able to power down/up my aba as a makeup around 10 times so far.  What I did when I assigned the number was to turn the switch from program to run without turning off the transformer power.  I could then shut the engine down and restart.  It also operated properly without shutting the engine down after assigning the number.  Give that a try.  Who knows, for whatever reason it may hold the ID indefinitely.  We will have time to try before they are ready to open the service department.

Big L, please make sure the VL Challengers are right before you ship them.  Bad enough to pack an A unit.  Don't want to think about shipping a $2K engine through common carriers.  Never a pleasant experience.  Also, the backlog will be overwhelming.

Give the switch without transformer power down.  It may work.

Bryant

TCA 18-73717

JamesRx posted:

Hi everyone...I have the NYC version (#1933180). I haven’t been having the same problems as those on this thread, only because I run it on the factory setting of engine 1. However I have encountered  another problem which you might want to look out for. Several times since I started running the set the rear unit has lost signal and either stopped dead or after I put in a direction change kept going in the old direction. In any case this led to one engine trying to pull the other or the two engines pulling against each other, resulting in a horrible sound and trauma to the operator  (me)! I assumed it was a bad connection on the track or dirt on the track but after cleaning everything up it was still happening. I just figured out what the problem is. When I took a look underneath the rear unit I found that the two pick up rollers in the rear of truck do not roll at all and were covered in crud. Basically those two rollers were acting as a track cleaner! I was thinking of trying to oil the rollers but since the front unit also has a problem which is an incessant ticking sound that I can’t seem to isolate I think I’m going to return the set. It’s a shame that we are all having these problems because it is a really beautiful engine.

You are doing the right thing. So sad. This should just about do it for the big “L”. 

Rod Miller

JamesRx posted:

Pete that was just the last straw...the set had other problems already...the units don't run straight on the track..really weird but true...the lead A has a loud ticking sound at all times...checked rollers, gears, etc...can't eliminate it no matter what I try. And as for oiling the rollers..some say you should NEVER do that, but I would try it if that were the only problem. 

I remember MTH stating that rollers should be oiled to allow better conductivity to minimize light flicker in passenger cars.  From my experience, what they instruct is true.  I agree with Norton.  I oil all of my rollers with 3 in 1 PTFE.  I think the oil has Teflon.  Works for me.  Put red and tacky on the gears and it should be very smooth.  I do this with all of my engines and cars as I unpack them.  Has not failed me yet.  I hope yours comes around.  Work on 1 problem at a time.  I think the engines are beautiful and would hate to see an engine lose its home and obviously a passionate train collector.

Bryant

TCA 18-73717

I'm to the point that defective trains are no longer an option for me at the prices we pay. I will work with this A unit but if it won't come around they are simply getting returned. Not going through the double whammy of having to send them back and the place I need to send them to isn't even accepting warranty work. After the Mogul fiasco I told myself never again. 

 

Bryant Dunivan 111417 posted:
JamesRx posted:

Pete that was just the last straw...the set had other problems already...the units don't run straight on the track..really weird but true...the lead A has a loud ticking sound at all times...checked rollers, gears, etc...can't eliminate it no matter what I try. And as for oiling the rollers..some say you should NEVER do that, but I would try it if that were the only problem. 

I remember MTH stating that rollers should be oiled to allow better conductivity to minimize light flicker in passenger cars.  From my experience, what they instruct is true.  I agree with Norton.  I oil all of my rollers with 3 in 1 PTFE.  I think the oil has Teflon.  Works for me.  Put red and tacky on the gears and it should be very smooth.  I do this with all of my engines and cars as I unpack them.  Has not failed me yet.  I hope yours comes around.  Work on 1 problem at a time.  I think the engines are beautiful and would hate to see an engine lose its home and obviously a passionate train collector.

I oil all my pickup rollers with Labelle 107. No electrical pickup issues and everything runs great. 

Santa Fe, All the Way

Bryant Dunivan 111417 posted:
JamesRx posted:

Pete that was just the last straw...the set had other problems already...the units don't run straight on the track..really weird but true...the lead A has a loud ticking sound at all times...checked rollers, gears, etc...can't eliminate it no matter what I try. And as for oiling the rollers..some say you should NEVER do that, but I would try it if that were the only problem. 

I remember MTH stating that rollers should be oiled to allow better conductivity to minimize light flicker in passenger cars.  From my experience, what they instruct is true.  I agree with Norton.  I oil all of my rollers with 3 in 1 PTFE.  I think the oil has Teflon.  Works for me.  Put red and tacky on the gears and it should be very smooth.  I do this with all of my engines and cars as I unpack them.  Has not failed me yet.  I hope yours comes around.  Work on 1 problem at a time.  I think the engines are beautiful and would hate to see an engine lose its home and obviously a passionate train collector.

Bryant thank you so much for your reply. I was actually starting to put them back in the box, but you have inspired me. I could learn a lot from good folks like you and Norton (Pete). I'm going to keep them and see if I can't fix them myself. Thanks again!

JamesRx posted:
Bryant Dunivan 111417 posted:
JamesRx posted:

Pete that was just the last straw...the set had other problems already...the units don't run straight on the track..really weird but true...the lead A has a loud ticking sound at all times...checked rollers, gears, etc...can't eliminate it no matter what I try. And as for oiling the rollers..some say you should NEVER do that, but I would try it if that were the only problem. 

I remember MTH stating that rollers should be oiled to allow better conductivity to minimize light flicker in passenger cars.  From my experience, what they instruct is true.  I agree with Norton.  I oil all of my rollers with 3 in 1 PTFE.  I think the oil has Teflon.  Works for me.  Put red and tacky on the gears and it should be very smooth.  I do this with all of my engines and cars as I unpack them.  Has not failed me yet.  I hope yours comes around.  Work on 1 problem at a time.  I think the engines are beautiful and would hate to see an engine lose its home and obviously a passionate train collector.

Bryant thank you so much for your reply. I was actually starting to put them back in the box, but you have inspired me. I could learn a lot from good folks like you and Norton (Pete). I'm going to keep them and see if I can't fix them myself. Thanks again!

That's the spirit.  You can go to my profile for my email address if you want.  We will all get through this.

The good news is that you are not alone and others want to fix this just as badly.

Bryant

TCA 18-73717

One more thing....when you all get a chance can you check if your front electrocoupler is working? Mine is not because the little white plug that powers the coupler is not plugged in. Twisted off the lion drive truck, spent a good hour getting the plug back in (due to an impossibly short cord on the plug) and then when I twisted the truck back on the plugged pulled out again! Fortunately I never really use the coupler on the lead engine, but still...

Bryant Dunivan 111417 posted:
JamesRx posted:
Bryant Dunivan 111417 posted:
JamesRx posted:

Pete that was just the last straw...the set had other problems already...the units don't run straight on the track..really weird but true...the lead A has a loud ticking sound at all times...checked rollers, gears, etc...can't eliminate it no matter what I try. And as for oiling the rollers..some say you should NEVER do that, but I would try it if that were the only problem. 

I remember MTH stating that rollers should be oiled to allow better conductivity to minimize light flicker in passenger cars.  From my experience, what they instruct is true.  I agree with Norton.  I oil all of my rollers with 3 in 1 PTFE.  I think the oil has Teflon.  Works for me.  Put red and tacky on the gears and it should be very smooth.  I do this with all of my engines and cars as I unpack them.  Has not failed me yet.  I hope yours comes around.  Work on 1 problem at a time.  I think the engines are beautiful and would hate to see an engine lose its home and obviously a passionate train collector.

Bryant thank you so much for your reply. I was actually starting to put them back in the box, but you have inspired me. I could learn a lot from good folks like you and Norton (Pete). I'm going to keep them and see if I can't fix them myself. Thanks again!

That's the spirit.  You can go to my profile for my email address if you want.  We will all get through this.

The good news is that you are not alone and others want to fix this just as badly.

Thanks again Bryant!

JamesRx posted:

One more thing....when you all get a chance can you check if your front electrocoupler is working? Mine is not because the little white plug that powers the coupler is not plugged in. Twisted off the lion drive truck, spent a good hour getting the plug back in (due to an impossibly short cord on the plug) and then when I twisted the truck back on the plugged pulled out again! Fortunately I never really use the coupler on the lead engine, but still...

James - 

All couplers are working on my set. 

So not sure if I should alert our LHS that ALL his stock should be sent back?

 

J Daddy posted:
BobbyD posted:

This isn't good if all these ALCO PA's have to go back.

Still not sure on that. I will be investigating

Friends have 2 Santa Fe sets with the issue, one is pondering repair vs the potential for damage and cost to return them to Lionel. the other guy is sending his in for a refund. I believe his exact words were "I didn't spend $1,500 to get defective/damaged units, I bought NEW ones" and the emphasis on "new" was his. I tend to agree, while they may fix these it is something that should never have happened. Does anyone here have a set that works?

Hey guys I know this is not related to the main issue on this thread but for yet more Alco problems check out my post, titled appropriately enough "More Alco problems" So far I have sent one set back due to an internal short circuit, complete with sparks,  dealt with super loud ticking rollers, a non-working front coupler (on both sets!), and now the dreaded blinking cab light! Good grief!

 

I wanted to give it a few days and hopefully I'm not jinxing myself here. On Thursday I used some contact cleaner on all 3 of the Run / Prog switches on my ABA. Ran the switches back and forth, sprayed on both sides, and then reprogrammed all of them.

So far over 4 days, and multiple power cycles I have not run into the issue with losing the ID on any of them. I will continue to run them at least once per day this week and see what happens.

BNSF-Matt posted:

I wanted to give it a few days and hopefully I'm not jinxing myself here. On Thursday I used some contact cleaner on all 3 of the Run / Prog switches on my ABA. Ran the switches back and forth, sprayed on both sides, and then reprogrammed all of them.

So far over 4 days, and multiple power cycles I have not run into the issue with losing the ID on any of them. I will continue to run them at least once per day this week and see what happens.

Best of luck Matt...hope or works out. Mine have so many other issues I'm hoping to find a way to keep from sending them back to Concord. There will probably be a long line of units going in for repair and I'd rather not be in that line!

JamesRx posted:
BNSF-Matt posted:

I wanted to give it a few days and hopefully I'm not jinxing myself here. On Thursday I used some contact cleaner on all 3 of the Run / Prog switches on my ABA. Ran the switches back and forth, sprayed on both sides, and then reprogrammed all of them.

So far over 4 days, and multiple power cycles I have not run into the issue with losing the ID on any of them. I will continue to run them at least once per day this week and see what happens.

Best of luck Matt...hope or works out. Mine have so many other issues I'm hoping to find a way to keep from sending them back to Concord. There will probably be a long line of units going in for repair and I'd rather not be in that line!

Thanks James and I hope you get your issues resolved without having to send them in. I don't particularly like shipping my units to get them fixed, the last one I sent in to get fixed came back working but damaged.

BNSF-Matt posted:
JamesRx posted:
BNSF-Matt posted:

I wanted to give it a few days and hopefully I'm not jinxing myself here. On Thursday I used some contact cleaner on all 3 of the Run / Prog switches on my ABA. Ran the switches back and forth, sprayed on both sides, and then reprogrammed all of them.

So far over 4 days, and multiple power cycles I have not run into the issue with losing the ID on any of them. I will continue to run them at least once per day this week and see what happens.

Best of luck Matt...hope or works out. Mine have so many other issues I'm hoping to find a way to keep from sending them back to Concord. There will probably be a long line of units going in for repair and I'd rather not be in that line!

Thanks James and I hope you get your issues resolved without having to send them in. I don't particularly like shipping my units to get them fixed, the last one I sent in to get fixed came back working but damaged.

I hear you! So many people have had similar experiences. These trains don't travel well when they are not on the tracks!

I am glad I waited and let you guys be my guinea pigs on these new Legacy PAs.

I was interested, but now, I will pass.

This QA stuff with Lionel is getting old.

Ok so running day 5. Turned on power; returned A unit is ok, super bass B unit ok, trailing A unit is starting up in conventional now. 

Remove shell, found magnet glued to top of shell with double sided sticky tape has fallen down and noted that there are two wires to the antenna. One wire was loose, resoldered, reprogramed, shut power off and on, ID remembered. 

When did the Antennas go to two wires and sticky taped to the shell? This is what gets Lionel into trouble... non-standardization. 

Well, will continue running and will report out what I find. 

Cheers.

Just took delivery on the PRR Lionel PA (1933191) and PB (1933193).  After fully programing the engines, when placed on the same track with other engines already programed, the new engines will not respond and have to be reprogramed.  The new programing works fine (crew sounds, signals, engine sounds, speed) until the unit is placed on a powered track with other locomotives, then the engine will not respond.  Only happens with these two new PA/PB units.  Any one else having this issue?

Pennsyforever

pennsyforever posted:

Just took delivery on the PRR Lionel PA (1933191) and PB (1933193).  After fully programing the engines, when placed on the same track with other engines already programed, the new engines will not respond and have to be reprogramed.  The new programing works fine (crew sounds, signals, engine sounds, speed) until the unit is placed on a powered track with other locomotives, then the engine will not respond.  Only happens with these two new PA/PB units.  Any one else having this issue?

Pennsyforever

Do they respond when using Engine ID 1?

That's right Matt, once you program to engines, and then cut power to the track, and turn power back on, all the previous programing is lost.  Seems Lionel's PAs are as problematic as were Alco's!  And it also seems to problem is pretty universal across owners.

pennsyforever

Craignor posted:

I am glad I waited and let you guys be my guinea pigs on these new Legacy PAs.

I was interested, but now, I will pass.

This QA stuff with Lionel is getting old.

Craignor, I hear you! And nobody gets more frustrated with anything less than perfection at these prices then I do. It reminds me of the quote often attributed to Albert Einstein. Something about the definition of insanity being doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result! But in this case I prefer the old joke about the man who goes to a doctor complaining that his brother thinks he is a chicken. The doctor says why don't you get him some help? The man replies we would but we need the eggs! So I would give up on these Alcos too if it  we're not that they are so good-looking and good sounding and so close to the prototype of my beloved New York Central!

I have certainly been through stuff like this before but Dean at Lionel has always made things right and in the end I always believed it was worth the wait because you end up with some really spectacular trains to run.

But I certainly respect and understand your decision!

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JamesRx posted:
Craignor posted:

I am glad I waited and let you guys be my guinea pigs on these new Legacy PAs.

I was interested, but now, I will pass.

This QA stuff with Lionel is getting old.

Craignor, I hear you! And nobody gets more frustrated with anything less than perfection at these prices then I do. It reminds me of the quote often attributed to Albert Einstein. Something about the definition of insanity being doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result! But in this case I prefer the old joke about the man who goes to a doctor complaining that his brother thinks he is a chicken. The doctor says why don't you get him some help? The man replies we would but we need the eggs! So I would give up on these Alcos too if it  we're not that they are so good-looking and good sounding and so close to the prototype of my beloved New York Central!

I have certainly been through stuff like this before but Dean at Lionel has always made things right and in the end I always believed it was worth the wait because you end up with some really spectacular trains to run.

But I certainly respect and understand your decision!

It has been 2 weeks since I received mine.  I did some things that I posted earlier in this topic.  I have been gone for 1 week without touching them.  Came home last night from a business convention and fired up the layout.  Works like a charm  Cycled transformer on and off.  Cycled engines on and off.  Perfect operation.  To summarize:

1)  Flipped program/Run switch fast back and forth about 30 times.

2) Assigned ID per instructions with the following EXCEPTION:  Don't cycle transformer power on and off during the assigning.  1) Transformer power off 2) Place engine on track with switch in program. 3) Assign ID - DON'T TURN POWER OFF ON TRANSFORMER 4) Flip switch to run mode. 5) Turn engine off with CAB.

From that point I was done with assigning and have had no problem whatsoever for 2 weeks.  I recommend giving that a try before giving up.  I am convinced it is a switch issue.

Hopefully it works for you guys also.

Bryant

TCA 18-73717

Bryant Dunivan 

1)  Flipped program/Run switch fast back and forth about 30 times.

2) Assigned ID per instructions with the following EXCEPTION:  Don't cycle transformer power on and off during the assigning.  1) Transformer power off 2) Place engine on track with switch in program. 3) Assign ID - DON'T TURN POWER OFF ON TRANSFORMER 4) Flip switch to run mode. 5) Turn engine off with CAB.

From that point I was done with assigning and have had no problem whatsoever for 2 weeks.  I recommend giving that a try before giving up.  I am convinced it is a switch issue.

Hopefully it works for you guys also.

Great helpful post. I sure hope it helps others with this problem. 

Rod Miller

I tried Bryant's tricks.  Didn't work for me.  1. flipped program/run switch back and forth about 15 times (sorry, my figures got tired), 2. powered down the track, 3. put engine on track, 4. powered up the track, 5. Put PA in program mode, 6. Used the number already assigned to the engine and hit "set." As usually, it fires right up with great sounds.  Checked the front coupler, works fine.  7. Tried flipping the program/run switch back a forth a few times, 8. Turned Engine off with the CAB2. 8. Turned engine on again with the CAB2, 9. Works fine, until, 10. Turned engine off with CAB2, 11. Powered down the track, 12. Powered up the track, 13. Tried to power up the engine, dead as the dodo, as usual.  Last night I sent a message to Lionel's "TalktoUS" center.  Usually they respond by the next morning.  This time, no response.  I have never thought the PA was better looking than an EMD E (Nose too long, body too short for me) but these Lionel PAs do sound great.  But even the great sound is not enough to keep $1,700 worth of bad electronics.

Pennsyforever 

J Daddy posted:
When did the Antennas go to two wires and sticky taped to the shell?

Well, Lionel has has the sticky copper tape for an antenna for many, many years, maybe they're going back to their roots.   I've also seen quite a few locomotives with two wires for antennas.

pennsyforever posted:

I tried Bryant's tricks.  Didn't work for me.  1. flipped program/run switch back and forth about 15 times (sorry, my figures got tired), 2. powered down the track, 3. put engine on track, 4. powered up the track, 5. Put PA in program mode, 6. Used the number already assigned to the engine and hit "set." As usually, it fires right up with great sounds.  Checked the front coupler, works fine.  7. Tried flipping the program/run switch back a forth a few times, 8. Turned Engine off with the CAB2. 8. Turned engine on again with the CAB2, 9. Works fine, until, 10. Turned engine off with CAB2, 11. Powered down the track, 12. Powered up the track, 13. Tried to power up the engine, dead as the dodo, as usual.  Last night I sent a message to Lionel's "TalktoUS" center.  Usually they respond by the next morning.  This time, no response.  I have never thought the PA was better looking than an EMD E (Nose too long, body too short for me) but these Lionel PAs do sound great.  But even the great sound is not enough to keep $1,700 worth of bad electronics.

Pennsyforever 

Pennsy,   That’s interesting because I always felt the same way about E units versus PAs. To me the E8 is so much more elegant than the PA. Apropos of our discussion, I had to return last year’s Legacy E8 four times before I got one that I was satisfied with. It was an ordeal but in the end I have the engine I always wanted. As for the new Alcos, mine actually have many more problems than the ones the people on this thread have. The one problem I don’t have is addressing the engine because on my tiny layout I simply run it as factory setting engine one all the time. At one point I had four different threads running about all the problems with my set. Of course some of the problems were quite minor but I am not good at fixing anything so I always ask for help on the forum, Even though I have had to weather the occasional snide remark. It is well worth it for all the great advice you get. I have managed to reduce all the problems down to just two. In addition to the front coupler, which doesn’t bother me really, and I could fix if I could ever figure out a way to get that little white plug back in without pulling it right out when I put the truck back on, the only real issue left is that occasionally one unit or the other either loses power or signal and start a tug-of-war with its brother. Right now my guess is that it’s a signal loss problem and I will look into improving that situation. But the bottom line is I am keeping them because I know that if necessary Dean at Lionel will make it right. He got me through all the problems with the E8 and now it is my favorite engine and works perfectly all the time. So even though it is extremely frustrating and time-consuming and sometimes drives you crazy, to me it is worth it to have the engine that I want. Just my opinion. 

 

Norton posted:

All the radio boards used in RCMC have a two wire connector for the antenna.  Its used on steam engines which have a wire for each handrail eliminating the wire nut. Not sure its needed on plastic engines but it can't hurt.

 

Pete

Correct. However my point was does the two wire connection need to have a closed circuit so the locomotive will "see" the TMCC signal. On previous board designs it is not needed and this was usually one wire in previous command diesels. 

Holding On!!!  Dear Jamesrx, just because of your good experience with Dean at Lionel, I am going to hang on.  I have a Lionel E8 and have never had a problem with it.  After one day of working with four new PAs, here is the situation: 1. Started with voiced and powered A unit not holding its programing when track power is cut.  This problem remains.  2. One PB unit was also not holding its programing when track power was cut but started working as specified.  I did nothing to it, it just started working.  3. Second PB always worked as specified.  4. Powered, non-voiced PA unit has always worked as specified.   So overall, I have three of four units working as specified.  5. I hear no difference between the PA versus PB (super bass) sounds in terms of volume or sound quality (horn, engine, crew talk). 6. The PA/PB sound volume and quality is noticeably better than the 2018 Lionel E8 or TMCC.  So far, in my experience, the only sound that could rival these new PAs/PBs, if the vision line GG1, but I have not done a side by side comparison.  I would like to know the experiences of others.

Pennsyforever 

1. Started with voiced and powered A unit not holding its programing when track power is cut.  This problem remains.

2. One PB unit was also not holding its programing when track power was cut but started working as specified.  I did nothing to it, it just started working.

3. Second PB always worked as specified.

4. Powered, non-voiced PA unit has always worked as specified.  

Pennsyforever- 

Can I clarify a few observations on what you are seeing?

1. Are you saying the lead A unit with sound will not take a unique program ID number and reverts back to 1 every time the power is turned off?

2. Can you confirm this one is taking commands? Or is it just starting up in conventional? Can you change the ID or program?

3. Worked as specified? can program to new ID and will retain new ID and functions properly in command?

4. Worked as specified means; can program to new ID and will retain new ID and functions properly in command?

I would like to compare observations that I am seeing as well.

J Daddy posted:
Norton posted:

All the radio boards used in RCMC have a two wire connector for the antenna.  Its used on steam engines which have a wire for each handrail eliminating the wire nut. Not sure its needed on plastic engines but it can't hurt.

 

Pete

Correct. However my point was does the two wire connection need to have a closed circuit so the locomotive will "see" the TMCC signal. On previous board designs it is not needed and this was usually one wire in previous command diesels. 

One wire could break and the antenna would still be functional. The two contacts on the board are wired together. One wire to either or both contacts is sufficient. I am assuming the factory has wired all the antenna connectors with two wires so they can be used for either steam or diesel and then just tie them together on the diesels.

I just opened my RS11 which also has Alzheimers. It too has two wires soldered to the antenna plate. 

Pete

Dear J DADDY:

1. The lead A unit with sound takes a unique program ID number and works fine, until the power is turned off.  If the power is turned off, I cannot tell you what it reverts to.  All I know is that it will not take a command with the ID assigned.  So I start all over again by reprograming it.

2. Once the track power is cut, the lead A unit with sound will not start up at all if power is returned, until it is reprogramed.  I don't run conventional so I can't tell you what it would do in conventional.

3. The two PB units and the non-voiced A unit are working with the original IDs I programed them with.  I have not tried to program new IDs.  If it aint broke, don't fix has been my approach.  That is, I can power down the track and power up, and they (PBs and non-voiced A) take full commands.

4. One of the PBs with acting like the lead A unit, but the problem went away yesterday on its own.  Since that time, it has been working perfectly.

5. Also, I have not tried them in a lash up.

Pennsyforever

Norton posted:
J Daddy posted:
Norton posted:

All the radio boards used in RCMC have a two wire connector for the antenna.  Its used on steam engines which have a wire for each handrail eliminating the wire nut. Not sure its needed on plastic engines but it can't hurt.

 

Pete

Correct. However my point was does the two wire connection need to have a closed circuit so the locomotive will "see" the TMCC signal. On previous board designs it is not needed and this was usually one wire in previous command diesels. 

One wire could break and the antenna would still be functional. The two contacts on the board are wired together. One wire to either or both contacts is sufficient. I am assuming the factory has wired all the antenna connectors with two wires so they can be used for either steam or diesel and then just tie them together on the diesels.

I just opened my RS11 which also has Alzheimers. It too has two wires soldered to the antenna plate. 

Pete

Thanks Pete.  Than I think what happened to mine was the antenna plate lost its adhesive to the shell and grounded the signal out on the frame . When it was sitting loose inside the unit . 

pennsyforever posted:

Dear J DADDY:

1. The lead A unit with sound takes a unique program ID number and works fine, until the power is turned off.  If the power is turned off, I cannot tell you what it reverts to.  All I know is that it will not take a command with the ID assigned.  So I start all over again by reprograming it.

2. Once the track power is cut, the lead A unit with sound will not start up at all if power is returned, until it is reprogramed.  I don't run conventional so I can't tell you what it would do in conventional.

3. The two PB units and the non-voiced A unit are working with the original IDs I programed them with.  I have not tried to program new IDs.  If it aint broke, don't fix has been my approach.  That is, I can power down the track and power up, and they (PBs and non-voiced A) take full commands.

4. One of the PBs with acting like the lead A unit, but the problem went away yesterday on its own.  Since that time, it has been working perfectly.

5. Also, I have not tried them in a lash up.

Pennsyforever

Pop the lids and see if your antenna is floating around in the housing. 

pennsyforever posted:

Got up this morning, powered the track, Lead A unit fired right up with everything working!!!!  Can't explain it, but nice to have it working.  Next, will try a lash up.

Pennsyforever

Is this with the new ID number or ID #1? 

Pete

Matt, my lead A unit stopped working as mysteriously as it started working.  Both B units and the A unit w/o voice, are working.  There is no way around this, we need a serious fix from Lionel.  Unfortunately, Lionel is not responding to any of my inquiries.

Pennsyforever

pennsyforever posted:

Matt, my lead A unit stopped working as mysteriously as it started working.  Both B units and the A unit w/o voice, are working.  There is no way around this, we need a serious fix from Lionel.  Unfortunately, Lionel is not responding to any of my inquiries.

Pennsyforever

Lionel won't be issuing RAs for at least a couple more weeks. Everyone is going to have sit tight for a while before this problem is addressed.

Pete

This is the response from my retailer—

We have been in communication with Lionel regard this problem.  It appears that the
main board has to be "reflashed" to correct the problem.  Lionel is handling this
directly, they will issue a call tag to pick it up, fix it and return it to you at
no cost to you, you should call their Customer Service and they will arrange this
for you.  They may be closed for the 4th of July holiday so you may not get them
until the 8th
Bryant Dunivan 111417 posted:

Thud......., that’s the sound of a white towel being thrown in the ring.   Just like Matt, it happened to me last night and I reprogrammed a both A units to get it running.  I hope shipping is kind when Lionel fixes it.  They are beautiful locomotives. 

Yeah I’m ready to go for the return trip to North Carolina too, but dreading what could happen to these beauties in shipping. A large part of the appeal for me is the physical appearance and that’s what often takes the hit in shipping. But mine have so many more  problems than the rest of you guys that I really need to bite the bullet.

pennsyforever posted:

This is the response from my retailer—

We have been in communication with Lionel regard this problem.  It appears that the
main board has to be "reflashed" to correct the problem.  Lionel is handling this
directly, they will issue a call tag to pick it up, fix it and return it to you at
no cost to you, you should call their Customer Service and they will arrange this
for you.  They may be closed for the 4th of July holiday so you may not get them
until the 8th

Boy that’s going to be one busy email account come July 8th. 

Good luck to everyone here on getting a successful resolution.

pennsyforever posted:

Matt, my lead A unit stopped working as mysteriously as it started working.  Both B units and the A unit w/o voice, are working.  There is no way around this, we need a serious fix from Lionel.  Unfortunately, Lionel is not responding to any of my inquiries.

Pennsyforever

Pennsy Lionel is in the process of moving their entire service department from one building to another. I’ve been speaking to Dean about it...big job but they are almost there. Be patient and he will make this right.

Ok so I was on vacation when my Santa Fe's arrived and I read some of the problems while out of town. I was about to order a set of UP when I started reading this information. Now I am afraid to open my Santa Fe. Is it ALL PA's that are having a problem and "All" will need to be sent back or is it random?

Home of the Texarkana & East Texas Railroad (Cotton Belt,

Texas & Pacific, MoPac, KCS, and T&NO)

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Well, if it's really programming as Dave stated, I suspect all of them would have the flaw.

I agree with John.  By the nature of the process "Garbage in, Garbage out".   Programming is great when right (100%).  Not so great when wrong (100%).

Let's hope the Challengers are fine.  There will be a lot of ALCOs on Big L Workbenches.  I understand from Steve Nelson, Challengers have shipped and on their way to him.

Bryant

TCA 18-73717

I was informed to call back after the 8th as when I described the issues which was a couple of weeks ago now this was considered new issues with these new units.   Have the NYC set and the second A unit cab lights lit and could control smoke levels from remote but that was it.   Just boxed it back up and send back when I get the RA.  

They are fantastic looking and the one working unit sounds & works great but does not look so great by itself.

Was going to get the B unit and thought of another but will wait and see how this works out.

I don't know if  believe that the issues with these are just programming. After cleaning the contacts on my run/prgm switch my faulty A unit has been 100%. Powered up/down several times and also let it sit several days and then turned it back on and have had no issues with it remembering who it is. Hopefully it stays this way. Even if it does need a reflash, I won't be sending mine in unless it quits again.

Surefire posted:

I don't know if  believe that the issues with these are just programming. After cleaning the contacts on my run/prgm switch my faulty A unit has been 100%. Powered up/down several times and also let it sit several days and then turned it back on and have had no issues with it remembering who it is. Hopefully it stays this way. Even if it does need a reflash, I won't be sending mine in unless it quits again.

That is correct. Testing quite a few of these now and there seems to be 3 or 4 failure modes. Flashing the chip is only one of them.

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