Lionel LionChief +2 Cancellations

Was this Allegheny based on former K-Line Allegheny tooling? It was a 1:58 scale model and mostly not too bad. I have one from years ago. I don't do sub-scale that much, but I got it on a whim, back when I had whims.

It would have been a nice LC piece for those who won't/can't do the scale 2-6-6-6. 

@D500 posted:

Was this Allegheny based on former K-Line Allegheny tooling? 

I believe it was mention that that was the case when these were announced.

I'd like to see a reissue of the VL Hudson using ALL of the k line J1e tooling . Instead of just the driver castings and possibly the chassis.

Rick O, I totally agree with your thoughts on Lionel bringing back the J1e VisionLine Hudson using the K-Line tooling or was it actually used in the 2010 model? I recently purchased a TMCC K-Line Scale Hudson from a fellow on the OGR For Sale Forum. I’ve owned 3 of Lionels VisionLine Hudson and just didn’t like the whistle. Great thought.

As far as cancellations, the hobby is shrinking in certain areas, and picking up in others, it’s still hard for our great manufacturers to know what directions to explore. It looks as if MTH has had enough of this guessing game and Mikes going to simply retire. That makes a statement, no bashing, just the plain truth. The BTO, built to order not only helps the dealer, it’s vital to our manufacturers to keep their doors open to. Competition is important in our hobby, products, their pricing, their availability, MTH, (good for 1 more year) LIONEL, ATLAS O, Williams by Bachman, Third Rail/Sunset Models, then there’s some Scale 2 rail manufacturers, the field is simply getting smaller.  

I do not know if there will be a fall York, but if there isn’t an October York, that’s going to hurt a lot of folks. This hobby is a People business hobby, and we all enjoy it differently, some like the toy type trains, others the 3 rail scale side of the hobby, and some, are rivet counters...where realism is king.   

Great thread, sorry that folks won’t be getting their orders, but, maybe things will change, One thing for sure, “Change is Constant. Happy Railroading 

To bad about the FT's - I had a Great Northern on order.  

I have the K-Line Allegheny, a decent looking locomotive, and a perfect candidate for the LC+ 2.0 line.  I would have thought that would be a popular item.

@RadioRon posted:

So were these from the K-Line molds?

Yes, just like the light Mikes, the B6's, the A1 berkshires, K4's the 2 truck shays ( I may have missed something) and as I mentioned above. The driver tooling on the VL hudson is identical to the K line J1e, and possibly some other detail parts are shared.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I have the K-Line Allegheny, a decent looking locomotive, and a perfect candidate for the LC+ 2.0 line.  I would have thought that would be a popular item.

I agree, John. It would have been, as you say, great for the LC+2 line, and had every potential to be a popular engine.

The LC+2 Allegheny was the right size, too. It is listed as 27" length, vs. 27.5 for the LionMaster Challenger. About spot-on to the correct relative dimensions for LionMaster engines, given that the prototypical Challenger was 132' 9" long and the Allegheny was 125" long.

@leapinlarry posted:

As far as cancellations, the hobby is shrinking in certain areas, and picking up in others, it’s still hard for our great manufacturers to know what directions to explore.  

Scale.  I think most of the newish-to-3-rail folks are like me and like big scale trains.  They can make compromises where necessary, like swinging pilots, hi-rail wheels, blindablind drivers, and passenger car length, but otherwise, keep things proportional.

ScaleTrax-like and code <148 rail.  Skip the operating accessories.  

Open the communication protocols so our expensive trains aren't bricks if you're company goes out of business.  Better yet, make everything DCC or amend the standard for 3-rail.  Make DCC compatible controllers andtand transformers.  Then you can sell to HO, N, and G. Bigger market.

I do not know if there will be a fall York, but if there isn’t an October York, that’s going to hurt a lot of folks. 

Agree. I feel the most sympathy for the local little guys. 

Thank you Rick O, you made my day, I thought this could be the situation on the Hudson’s. Yes Rplst8, the small dealers are the ones that are in the middle, if they cannot get the merchandise needed to make the sales final, they can’t pay their bills.  I was in sales for 54 years, straight commission, I know first hand what it’s like to take orders for products thinking I would get paid when they shipped, and many times items were not there. So, when our dealers take our orders from the current catalogs they are counting on the manufacturers to make the goods in a reasonable period of time to receive the goods, then the monies owed them. My dealer told me today that he received his order from a company making HO trains that were on order for 6 years. Wow, and the customer was thrilled. Now, some of us folks may not be able to wait for 6 years.... 

My heart goes out to all the small mom and pop dealers that try so hard to please us with what we need to build our layouts, the trains we always wanted, and the fellowship of other modelers we meet along the way. 

Thank You 

Are we sure that the locos were canceled due to insufficient orders? I personally had orders for both the Allegheny and an ABA set of the FTs on preorder. I just assumed it was due to factory shut downs at their Asian suppliers.

My better half works for GE Aviation and all of their suppliers in SE Asia are at least 6-10 months behind schedule on parts. Some suppliers have just canceled orders to “get back on schedule.”

@breezinup posted:

Don't know if this has come up before, but I just saw that the LionChief Plus 2 LionMaster Allegheny engines have been cancelled, and also all the new LionChief Plus 2 FT engines. Quite surprising.

Too bad - probably a lot of people were looking at the Allegheny. I had been seriously looking at the Santa Fe FTs as well.

I was looking forward to the FTs darn it!

I had the Santa Fe blue & yellow FT's on order. Oh well. I noticed that all the big dealers have taken the sale pages down. 

@Keith Crook 020419 posted:

Are we sure that the locos were canceled due to insufficient orders? I personally had orders for both the Allegheny and an ABA set of the FTs on preorder. I just assumed it was due to factory shut downs at their Asian suppliers.

NYC and ATSF FT's were offered in Volume 1.  These road names are typically big sellers. It is difficult to know for sure, but I find it difficult to believe that there were not enough orders for these. 

@rplst8 posted:

Scale.  I think most of the newish-to-3-rail folks are like me and like big scale trains.  They can make compromises where necessary, like swinging pilots, hi-rail wheels, blindablind drivers, and passenger car length, but otherwise, keep things proportional.

 

The FT A-Units are scale. Perhaps not super highly detailed, but the FT's are scale in dimensions. The FT B-Units are a little out of scale in their more symmetric in truck placement than the prototype, but still close. 

@WBC posted:

NYC and ATSF FT's were offered in Volume 1.  These road names are typically big sellers. It is difficult to know for sure, but I find it difficult to believe that there were not enough orders for these. 

 

Maybe the constant issues with products is finally having an effect on preorders. Add to that, the slow action taken to rectify issues, and in some cases folks are stuck with what was delivered if its color or sound error.

I know I stopped preordering when Lionel could no longer tell the difference between the same graphite smokebox color they had used for nearly two decades, and silver.

@RickO posted:

Maybe the constant issues with products is finally having an effect on preorders. Add to that, the slow action taken to rectify issues, and in some cases folks are stuck with what was delivered if its color or sound error.

I know I stopped preordering when Lionel could no longer tell the difference between the same graphite smokebox color they had used for nearly two decades, and silver.

+1

The only way a company is going to change is if people stop forking over their hard earned dollars for an inferior product.

Breezinup, thanks for the news, also, I’m familiar with the Allegheny, what’s the FT? I think your referring to the 2020 volume 1 catalog? I hope they make the LionChief 2.0 Berkshires. Happy Railroading 

@leapinlarry posted:

Breezinup, thanks for the news, also, I’m familiar with the Allegheny, what’s the FT? I think your referring to the 2020 volume 1 catalog? I hope they make the LionChief 2.0 Berkshires. Happy Railroading 

2019 Vol. 2

RickO - Re: K-Line Tooling.  Now, if Lionel could just get the correct dimensions in their 2020 Vol. 2 catalog.  (eg. Light Mike - 30 inch length?)

Just spitballling here, but I wonder if LC2 would be better received if targeted to smaller, non-articulated steam instead of the Big Boy and Allegheny. I'm a traditional, semi-scale guy and haven't really considered an articulated engine due to size constraints (let alone cost).