Thanks, certainly a high risk, high reward strategy with malls on the decline in many areas.  But some malls are thriving.  This is a relatively innovative approach to retail,  with the mall as a destination for entertainment as well as shopping.  Probably the only way malls are going to survive in many places.  Might be particularly successful in areas with severe winters .

Hopefully there will be a significant amount of foot traffic after the newness wears off. Sounds like Lionel will be selling product there for both Lionel Trains and NASCAR model race cars. I would think with the significant drop in NASCAR attendance Lionels NASCAR diecast division is taking a hit in sales at the race tracks.

   Bill T

Landsteiner posted:

Thanks, certainly a high risk, high reward strategy with malls on the decline in many areas.  But some malls are thriving.  This is a relatively innovative approach to retail,  with the mall as a destination for entertainment as well as shopping.  Probably the only way malls are going to survive in many places.  Might be particularly successful in areas with severe winters .

With many of these malls, they must be giving away the store footage so the places are not 70% vacant. Was in a mall recently where JC Penny and two other "flagship" stores closed, it is about 30% blocked former store fronts and about 30% stores where only the front 10% of the space is used for things like portrait photo shops etc. Very sad.

Bill T posted:

Hopefully there will be a significant amount of foot traffic after the newness wears off. Sounds like Lionel will be selling product there for both Lionel Trains and NASCAR model race cars. I would think with the significant drop in NASCAR attendance Lionels NASCAR diecast division is taking a hit in sales at the race tracks.

   Bill T

The amount of empty seats at NASCAR races is truly astonishing, and even worse when you realize many of those tracks have pulled seats out. And who knows what the fallout will be with the CEO stepping down indefinitely as it now seems that maybe every business or sport with worker drug testing should have management drug testing as well.

Anyone know the population in the area? The amount of 3 rail O train folks within driving distance?

Looking forward to seeing pictures of the store once it is set up.

Yeah Lionel!  Sounds to me like Howard Hitchcock and Lionel upper management truly have an exciting "Visionline"  for Lionel as a company.  Very creative outside the box thinking on behalf of Lionel.  I applaud their risk taking venture and wish it every success for both Lionel and our wonderful hobby.  If this venture prooves to be successful, we in this wonderful hobby all win ... both participants/practioners and other manufactures of model/toy trains.   

I was also pleased to hear that Lionel sales were up last year!  A good sign for all involved in the hobby!  

And it will look like this!

I do wonder how Lionel’s retailers feel about this development?

Dave Warburton posted:

I do wonder how Lionel’s retailers feel about this development?

They had the same store in their corporate offices.  I don't see much of a change.  Of course if they start expanding that could be a problem.

that mall is always packed. Hope they do well, but if you are charging MSRP for everything, that could turn some folks away w/ sticker shock 

Dave Warburton posted:

I do wonder how Lionel’s retailers feel about this development?

Not warm and fuzzy, but we are probably not all that surprised by Lionel's move either.

A question for Lionel:

Has the Lionchief Thomas Tank Engine starter sets with Bluetooth shipped yet?  Our customers have been waiting for them since we placed our order in February, 2017 which was 18 months ago.

Kind of makes sense, given the Mall has foot traffic, and it may get people in and curious, especially having a display layout there. I don't think other Lionel dealers will have to worry, likely they will charge full MSRP at the store, and most dealers give some kind of discount. Will this work? Not sure, but given this is replacing the one at their HQ, it seems like this is a smart move. 

Dave Warburton posted:

I do wonder how Lionel’s retailers feel about this development?

Ditto!!!!!!!!!  And there is a local toy train shop but 30-miles away.  And this shop is the only train shop within 50/60-miles of Charlotte.

Ron

Could actually help dealers, by exposing substantially more customers/families to the pleasures of toy trains, then directing them to local retailers, if there are any.  And the latter may have prices that are 5-10% lower than Lionel's store, seeming like a bargain . 

17 million pairs of feet apparently go through this mall.  I'd guess that's about 10,000 to 100,000 times the number that go through the average train store each year.

In some metro areas, there are no Lionel dealers except in the suburbs,  and the number won't be increasing in all likelihood. If Lionel opened five stores in the next five years, that would be a lot.  

In addition, I'm guessing they are not going to feature Vision Line locos at $1200-2000, but rather sets at $200-400, which will not be sticker shock for many customers.  Thomas at $119, track at $5.00 a section, etc.  Walk through a mall and check out the high end retailers, and much of Lionel's product line will not be at the high end .  Williams-Sonoma, Apple, Brooks Brothers, etc.  $90 for a men's button down dress shirt.  I'd rather have a boxcar or 1.5 boxcars.  Then again, Brookstone is abandoning the malls and declaring bankruptcy because business for their high-end stuff has cratered.  Time will tell.

I like the idea but I hate MSRP.  There is a pretty big difference between MSRP and what we actually pay.  Maybe it's a numbers game but I feel like the hobby is way more affordable than those catalog prices.  I think the exposure is fantastic but I think people will be turned completely off if they see MSRP prices.  Somehow they need to be educated about the real prices.  Big difference in paying $65 for an Automatic Gateman vs $100.  Otherwise I think it's great.  BigRail

Landsteiner posted:

Could actually help dealers, by exposing substantially more customers/families to the pleasures of toy trains, then directing them to local retailers, if there are any.  And the latter may have prices that are 5-10% lower than Lionel's store, seeming like a bargain . 

17 million pairs of feet apparently go through this mall.  I'd guess that's about 10,000 to 100,000 times the number that go through the average train store each year.

In some metro areas, there are no Lionel dealers except in the suburbs,  and the number won't be increasing in all likelihood. If Lionel opened five stores in the next five years, that would be a lot.  

In addition, I'm guessing they are not going to feature Vision Line locos at $1200-2000, but rather sets at $200-400, which will not be sticker shock for many customers.  Thomas at $119, track at $5.00 a section, etc.  Walk through a mall and check out the high end retailers, and much of Lionel's product line will not be at the high end .  Williams-Sonoma, Apple, Brooks Brothers, etc.  $90 for a men's button down dress shirt.  I'd rather have a boxcar or 1.5 boxcars.  Then again, Brookstone is abandoning the malls and declaring bankruptcy because business for their high-end stuff has cratered.  Time will tell.

$90 for a button down shirt?  Allow me to introduce the masses to Costco.  Durable, we'll made, button down shirts for less than a third of that.  BigRail

Hahahahha    this place keeps me entertained.  All of the expert business analysts we have, I am surprised no one from this forum opens up a train company.

Lionel's press release posted:

The store is the first step in what could be a larger expansion into retail sales.

Per Hitchcock, “Our goal is to start in Concord Mills and build a template that could work in other shopping locations across the United States.”

Landsteiner posted:

Could actually help dealers, by exposing substantially more customers/families to the pleasures of toy trains, then directing them to local retailers, if there are any.  And the latter may have prices that are 5-10% lower than Lionel's store, seeming like a bargain . 

...Time will tell.

Yes, keep telling yourself and all the remaining dealers that this direct to consumer move is for their betterment.  More likely, it's that Lionel wants to find its way to improve and perfect its possible direct sales methods as response to (as Landsteiner alludes above) the reality of the ever shrinking and weakened retail dealer supply channel that they and all the other train hobby companies have experienced over the past 10 plus years.  We likely agree that Lionel Trains needs to do what's in Lionel's best (hopefully long-term) interest.  However, there's reasonable concern by some to any company that is one piece of a much larger investment ownership group's portfolio, and subject to decisions or operating constraints made by the top that are for the betterment of the whole portfolio and sometimes may not be in best interest of one participant company.  The big dealers and smartly run smaller outfits will, as always, wisely and creatively adapt to future consumer and manufacturer supply and demand.

A question to be asked: What is Lionel's lease term in this new location?  The lease term and opt-out options would indicate if the amount of commitment Lionel has towards this endeavor.  Will it be a 6 month entering Christmas/Holiday toy train season trial or will it go further?

EscapeRocks posted:

Hahahahha    this place keeps me entertained.  All of the expert business analysts we have, I am surprised no one from this forum opens up a train company.

Well, at least ONE guy who posts here OWNS a train company.  

EscapeRocks posted:

Hahahahha    this place keeps me entertained.  All of the expert business analysts we have, I am surprised no one from this forum opens up a train company.

A number of people on here have dealt with various businesses or have advanced business and management training that are relevant to the business at hand.  The train business is no different than any other consumer or hobby product out there, there are other niche markets out there, too (take a look sometime, for example, at high end audio with things like tube amps, similar market in some ways) and people were commenting about how they saw this panning out. Given that none of us are being paid to comment, and it is simply shooting the breeze electronically, I never understood why some get their nose bent out of joint when people speculate on here or comment. I had another post on here where I posted something about Apple and how its outsourcing works, one person who has dealt with outsourcing critiqued it based on his experience, and while some of his observations I think didn't really cover what the article said, it was interesting (and it is just opinion), but then I had someone give me the old crap line "what does a business professor know? They don't know nothing" (hate to tell the person who wrote that line, but guys like the person who wrote that article are  paid a lot of money by businesses out there, to analyze their business and give them suggestions, and people like the author whether people like it or not are the ones who shape how businesses are run, so yeah, they do know something that Sal the barber or Joe the Plumber don't know).  

And maybe the fact that people don't open their own train company indicates they are an expert, if you want  to make money there are a heck of a lot better ways to do it