The charge from Ro is one two pack short, will have to find out which it is. Hopefully they aren't short on stock.
The UP Frontier Days Excursion cars are very nice as they come from the factory. There may be coupler or truck adjustments needed on individual cars.
I have ordered 3/16" "E"-clips from Home Depot to replace the silver clips Lionel used because two opened up and dropped a trucks from the floor of two cars. This is my own choosing to strengthen the clips with steel 3/16" replacements.
These cars are secured with double-sided tape along the body shell. Removing the four body screws is just the beginning of opening up the car. A sharp #11 Excel blade was my choice to break loose the double-sided tape. Be careful when cutting to avoid nicking the paint on the bottom of the car with the knife. I have a few dings in mine. The double-sided tape makes sense on the Dome Cars, but is absolutely unnecessary on the Coaches and Dining Car --- but it is there and difficult to deal with.
The car shells are all new tooling, but the insides are from the previous run, except the Observation rear half floor with couches and coffee tables.
My Layout: "Valley of Bridges" The track is Atlas O Century track with a minimum of O-72 curves. The picture was taken at the point where the train crossed a Double Pratt Bridge and turned onto O-72 curves. There may be a O-81 inserted to widen the depth of the curve. There are four tracks negotiating this turn, two main line (outside) with two yard tracks inside, all minimum O-72. The yard sidings start at the other side of the layout at the "Village of Deichman" and cross a few interlocks to get to the businesses nearest my control table and Double Pratt Bridge. Designing the layout was a lesson in Geometry using many short filler tracks. The layout is more scenic than practical and was built using a used Vision Line Big Boy #4014 as the test engine for curve-clearance as I laid track. If the Big Boy cleared the auto carriers on the track or wall next to it, the layout was good.
Inspect the cars as soon as they arrive, so any damage can be reported to the dealer. Stock on these cars will disappear quickly. Enjoy your UP Excursion cars.
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Got my FED EX notice from RO today it will be here on Wednesday.
laz1957 posted:Got my FED EX notice from RO today it will be here on Wednesday.
I think FedEx must be dispatching a 53' rig to Charlie's place this afternoon -- just for all the new 21" passenger car shipments going out to customers! 
Must be quite the beehive of activity there today.
David
I received a PRR 4 pack and diner from Ro yesterday and another 4 pack scheduled for tomorrow. I can't wait to run them behind the VL GG1 at the club on Wednesday.
John Rowlen posted:The UP Frontier Days Excursion cars are very nice as they come from the factory. There may be coupler or truck adjustments needed on individual cars.
I have ordered 3/16" "E"-clips from Home Depot to replace the silver clips Lionel used because two opened up and dropped a trucks from the floor of two cars. This is my own choosing to strengthen the clips with steel 3/16" replacements.
These cars are secured with double-sided tape along the body shell. Removing the four body screws is just the beginning of opening up the car. A sharp #11 Excel blade was my choice to break loose the double-sided tape. Be careful when cutting to avoid nicking the paint on the bottom of the car with the knife. I have a few dings in mine. The double-sided tape makes sense on the Dome Cars, but is absolutely unnecessary on the Coaches and Dining Car --- but it is there and difficult to deal with.
The car shells are all new tooling, but the insides are from the previous run, except the Observation rear half floor with couches and coffee tables.
My Layout: "Valley of Bridges" The track is Atlas O Century track with a minimum of O-72 curves. The picture was taken at the point where the train crossed a Double Pratt Bridge and turned onto O-72 curves. There may be a O-81 inserted to widen the depth of the curve. There are four tracks negotiating this turn, two main line (outside) with two yard tracks inside, all minimum O-72. The yard sidings start at the other side of the layout at the "Village of Deichman" and cross a few interlocks to get to the businesses nearest my control table and Double Pratt Bridge. Designing the layout was a lesson in Geometry using many short filler tracks. The layout is more scenic than practical and was built using a used Vision Line Big Boy #4014 as the test engine for curve-clearance as I laid track. If the Big Boy cleared the auto carriers on the track or wall next to it, the layout was good.
Inspect the cars as soon as they arrive, so any damage can be reported to the dealer. Stock on these cars will disappear quickly. Enjoy your UP Excursion cars.
Hi John, thanks for all of your suggestions on the UP cars. I like my set, and also like you I had some difficulty in getting the cars separated from the body, So I created a separate thread on that on how I did it. I hope to add some interior details like you did.
Here is the link to the removing shell from body thread...
https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/...rsion-passenger-cars
All the best, dave
I just finished cutting and installing seat backs into the 6-83006 UP Excursion "Overland" Station Sounds dining car. Tomorrow I will add seated people. Because of the double-sided tape holding the body in place, when I seal it up, I don't want to add more to it later. Getting the car open once was enough.
The table tops will get another coat of white flat acryl paint (the fourth coat) before the people are installed by careful grinding and trimming and maybe paint touch-up if necessary.
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It would appear from the pictures posted so far that there is not a single Roof Vent on any car, ugh, should be min 3 to 6 per car where appropriate. How could this be overlooked ? Now I wonder if the Broadway Limited cars will have any Roof Vents, lets see the pictures please,
Thanks Dean
The only car with a roof vent (two) is the Station Sounds Dining Car with two vents over the kitchen. All other cars have smooth roofs and no vents. Good eye. If you find an after market roof vent, please post the information of manufacturer and roof placement position.
Forum sponsor Scale City Designs. I couldn't find one on Delta Models.
I prefer the clickity-clack sounds of the old StationSounds Diners. The new sound file sounds like very similar to the noises that the PS-1 sound equipped boxcars make. Maybe the new ones do make a clickity-clack sound and it just could not be heard over the BB....I dk. For my tastes, I think the high pitched squealing rail sound is triggered too frequently. To each their own.
T4TT posted:I prefer the clickity-clack sounds of the old StationSounds Diners. The new sound file sounds like very similar to the noises that the PS-1 sound equipped boxcars make. Maybe the new ones do make a clickity-clack sound and it just could not be heard over the BB....I dk. For my tastes, I think the high pitched squealing rail sound is triggered too frequently. To each their own.
The new cars do have a "rail clatter" or clickety-clack feature that can be turned off and on from the CAB 2 remote. To me it sounds the same as the TMCC sound effect. Maybe in the video the guy had not turned it on.
The manuals for the first run of ABS diners (I am not sure there are any manuals included with these newer cars) makes it clear that they do indeed have all but one of the same sound effects as the Freightsounds cars. (The deleted effect is the flat wheel sequence.) I agree about the squealing wheel/rail sound which Lionel calls "wheel flange grind" sound but that can also be toggled on and off from the CAB 2 remote.
I have the PS-1 boxcar, which have what I call: bowling alley sounds
Craignor posted:I have the PS-1 boxcar, which have what I call: bowling alley sounds
Bowling alley sounds....awesome....I had to laugh. I agree
I just finished adding Preiser 65602 and 68209 figures to my Lionel 6-83006 UP Excursion "Overland" Station Sounds Dining Car. Tomorrow when the glue is dry and I pick up the new 3/16" "E-clips" for the truck posts, I will closed it up.
I left two tables open so there is room for you and me in the car. A car is seldom packed to capacity when I detail car.
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Craignor posted:I have the PS-1 boxcar, which have what I call: bowling alley sounds
I have three of those HD washing machines, when you put them in one train it sounds like you are in a Laundromat.
jini5 posted:Craignor posted:I have the PS-1 boxcar, which have what I call: bowling alley sounds
Bowling alley sounds....awesome....I had to laugh. I agree
Same here, all too true.
Here is a link to the 21" SS Diner manual. I do not have one yet, I only have the older TMCC 18" Diners. Having read the manual, the new Legacy version has a lot more options and more audio scenes than the older versions. I look forward to purchasing one some day!
Do the new 21" SS Diners have a sensor on a wheel/axle to determine the car's speed like the older 18" cars and the VL reefers or are the they "dumbed down" like the PS-1 railsounds boxcars?
thanks
T4TT posted:Do the new 21" SS Diners have a sensor on a wheel/axle to determine the car's speed like the older 18" cars and the VL reefers or are the they "dumbed down" like the PS-1 railsounds boxcars?
thanks
They have a Hall Effect sensor as did the TMCC diners; no dumbing down on these.
The Dining Car can communicate when in a consist and linked with the engine. Press AUX1 and as the engine responds, the dining car boarding announcement sounds: "Ladies and Gentlemen the UP Frontier Days Excursion is ready for departure."
At Speed Step 1 the "All Aboard" is sounded.
At Speed Step "72" the conductor calls for "Tickets, Tickets please".
When the train stops, the conductor speaks saying the train will proceed in a moment. Timmy, the young boy and his mother, are also on board by using the #3 Key on the Remote.
This feature may require an update of your 990 Remote. It is a very nice feature. Enjoy.
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Does anyone have a PN and manufacture for the new C clips I need to buy? I may as well purchase these and have them ready.
Hancock52 posted:T4TT posted:Do the new 21" SS Diners have a sensor on a wheel/axle to determine the car's speed like the older 18" cars and the VL reefers or are the they "dumbed down" like the PS-1 railsounds boxcars?
thanks
They have a Hall Effect sensor as did the TMCC diners; no dumbing down on these.
That is great news!!! Thanks for the info.
Here is the Video I made about my Amtrak Diner. Works like a beauty!
J DADDY, The E-Clips from the Home Depot Store are "EVERBILT" 568 622 3/16" Plain Steel 2-packs. The bar code is 8 87480 09508 1. I have used these on previous Southern Pacific cars.
My order from Home Depot-on-line for 30 packs arrived as "CROWN BILT" CB #43638 Plain 2-packs. The bar code is 0 30699 43638 5. I have not tried these yet, but they look the same as the Everbilt.
Replacement is optional, but I have had two trucks come off these new cars. Because the UP cars are sealed with what appears to be double-sided tape, I am replacing the E-clips as I detail my cars. The silver Lionel E-clips are easy to bend out of "round" shape when applied to the truck post. I made Dean at Lionel Service aware of this fact.
Have fun tinkering with these cars.
I have had to bend truck mount plates up or down to get all four wheels touching the rail. The metal is easily bent and may account for why a "re-bending repair" becomes necessary.
The couplers also need to be bent downward (toward the track) on the Kinematic plate on a car on occasion. As the cars pull, there is a tendency for the coupler to want to raise upward, causing the car to uncouple.
Consider this cars like a guitar that needs to be "tuned up" now and then. It is music to my ears when everything is working well.
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These cars have mounting pads for Kadee couplers, right?
If so, the video I have seen suggests that the kinematic close coupling mechanism on these cars still leaves a considerable gap between the cars, and there seems to be no obvious reason to carry on with Lionel’s problematic coupler mechanism in preference to Kadees. After all, how often do you use the uncoupling mechanism?
I say this although I have not seen my Excursion cars yet but I will have at least a few on the rails tonight.
I just received my 2 pack with the Flag baggage car and the Passenger car. On the Baggage car the one truck will not move, from side to side, left and right. The other truck moves okay. Anyone else have this problem?
There should be a large (3/4" circumference. 3/16" hole approx.) brass washer between the truck and the car floor as the truck post goes through the floor. It is then held in place inside the car by an "E-clip". If the washer is missing, the truck has four points around the washer that may be digging into the floor bottom of the car.
Even with the washer missing, the trucks should hang from the bottom of the car and turn. When you put it on the track, it would bind without the washer because the four fingers would dig into the floor.
If the truck does not turn when hanging from the car, it is possible the factory assembler put TWO washers on the post and the jammed the "E-clip on the inside post to hold it on. It would create a pinching between the truck and the floor of the car because the clearance is filled with TWO brass washers. Go luck. Ask further questions if needed.
I just closed up my detailed "Overland" Dining Car. Here is a peek through the windows.
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I worked on my Generator Car and was going to add new "E=clips", only to find that the center floor screws were driven deeply into the plastic floor piece and would not turn. I can only hope the trucks do not loosen.
I opened my Flag Baggage Car and found that it too had the middle screws buried into the plastic Chinese RED floor. The red floor was just noticeable through the windows, so I painted the floor a four-color "wet blend" of stripes of Sand, Yellow, Dark Earth and Earth Red Acryl Flat Paint. Because I had planned on detailing the car interior and had bags of Woodland Scenic crates and boxes and bicycles, I added a few pieces around the Door Windows to give a quick glimpse of freight as the car passes by. It might not be that visible, but I know it's there. On my railroad, we don't pull empty cars unless we have to.
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I closed up the UP Flag Baggage Car and had to Dremel Sand the edge of the red floor. As screwed into the car by the factory, it was at an angle and overlapping the metal car chassis. Both opposing edges needed 1/16" sanded off the floor edge to get it even with the car floor. This floor piece could not be removed to replace the 3/16" E-clips because the middle screws were screwed deeply into the floor and would not turn.
The baggage and bicycles and painted wood floor are visible through the windows as the car passes. Here are a few pictures. For me, it was worth the little extra effort. The newly painted floor is better than the red plastic that was originally showing inside the car.
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John Rowlen posted:There should be a large (3/4" circumference. 3/16" hole approx.) brass washer between the truck and the car floor as the truck post goes through the floor. It is then held in place inside the car by an "E-clip". If the washer is missing, the truck has four points around the washer that may be digging into the floor bottom of the car.
Even with the washer missing, the trucks should hang from the bottom of the car and turn. When you put it on the track, it would bind without the washer because the four fingers would dig into the floor.
If the truck does not turn when hanging from the car, it is possible the factory assembler put TWO washers on the post and the jammed the "E-clip on the inside post to hold it on. It would create a pinching between the truck and the floor of the car because the clearance is filled with TWO brass washers. Go luck. Ask further questions if needed.
I just closed up my detailed "Overland" Dining Car. Here is a peek through the windows.
Nice work and good info.
So far I have only unboxed my UP set. No dangling trucks and for the most part they appear to turn as they should. On one car there is some undercarriage detail (a piece of wire) that was left too long and binds on the truck. That can be easily rectified - but read on.
I am a little reluctant to power up either the Generator or the Dining Car until I have checked the wiring (my first run Texas Special diner had a screw driven through a power wire and that fried the control board first time I put power to it). Obviously if the body of the Diner is taped in place (probably accidentally if the tape was meant to secure the windows) taking it off is no small exercise and I'm not sure I can start and finish it in the time I have available.
I think in an earlier thread you mentioned that there's an internal partition in the Overland Diner right in the middle of a window. I still see it in your photos so I guess you decided not to remove it. I will on mine; it should not be there and at that end of the car there's actually a massive amount of room to put in a buffet, which would be more realistic than a partition in the wrong place. The TMCC diners had this piece of interior detail but it was in the right place.
Generally I have to say that while these cars are superficially attractive the build/assembly quality leaves a lot to be desired. Putting in place screws that don't allow removal of the interior sections is an obvious assembly mistake that could have been avoided. More to the point, with plain colored and passenger-less interiors the cars just look bland. I have not found anything wrong I cannot fix myself, or not yet, but frankly I don't regard these cars as living up to their billing. I'll keep them but the detailing needed to make them fit for purpose is no small effort that I could do without.
Thanks for the info on the trucks. Your Cars are looking great!!!
Lionel had the screws put in real hard and that binded the sides so hard that truck couldn't move. I took the baggage car apart and put back to gether and was fixed. But doing so the one door that swings open came off. I was lucky enough to find the spring and o hinge to put back together. Man that was a tedious job but managed it well. Wish Lionel would have better quality control.
No one mentioned they come with scale coupler mounting pads. Ill bet the kadees will even tighten the gap even more.
Budkole posted:No one mentioned they come with scale coupler mounting pads. Ill bet the kadees will even tighten the gap even more.
Not specifically in this thread, but its been a topic of discussion on other threads. I am sure it will reduce the gap and I am not sure which Kadee coupler to use for the optimal gap on 072 curves? Even the Kadee long shank maybe too short? I was going to look at the Kadee no. 746:
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I have a "curosity" question. While looking at the pictures of passengers inserted into the cars above, it appears that no more than one passenger will fit in seats "meant" for two. Does this mean that the passengers are "over-sized," or are the seats "under-sized"? Or, alternatively, are my eyes being fooled by the camera image?
Chuck
PRR1950 posted:I have a "curosity" question. While looking at the pictures of passengers inserted into the cars above, it appears that no more than one passenger will fit in seats "meant" for two. Does this mean that the passengers are "over-sized," or are the seats "under-sized"? Or, alternatively, are my eyes being fooled by the camera image?
Chuck
The passengers being used by John R. are Preiser figures and so true O scale. The interiors are not true O scale but smaller yet not as small as those in Lionel’s earlier 21” cars. Those were nearer S scale than O. From visual inspection of my Excursion cars (I have not taken any apart yet) it looks like Lionel left some extra room between seats in the coaches and dome car lower levels, which facilitates putting in the somewhat larger scale figures. In the diner there are gaps in the floor under the tables, which is a consequence of how they were molded but makes putting larger passengers in easier.
I have some of the Preiser figures and a few could fit two to a coach seat but generally they are too big (as in wide) for that. In any case from reading John’s posts he has had to grind down the posteriors of the Preiser figures to ensure they fit!
One of the things that I think shows these interiors are somewhat bigger than the previous Lionel cars is that the larger seated figures do sit square in the windows rather than with their heads above them. But that may be partly a consequence of grinding them down.
Budkole posted:No one mentioned they come with scale coupler mounting pads. Ill bet the kadees will even tighten the gap even more.
Can someone post a picture of the factory truck coupler set up on these. I’ve been modifying tricks and couplers a lot here lately this might be my next project
J DADDY,
I have some info on the Kadee mounts...its not good.
I got these UP passenger cars a few days ago and I will say I really like them and they are a step above anything else out there.
However, the Kadees do nothing to bring the cars closer together. The conversion is not too bad, you must remove a lot of parts with the 3-rail couplers first, then the mounting bracket and Kadees are very easy to mount.
This pic is with the 3-rail couplers
This is with the shortest #743 Kadees
This is with the longer #740 Kadees. There is no difference between any of them.
This shows the longer (not longest) Kadee #740 work fine on min O72 curves.
You could close the gap by about 1/2" if you could move the mounts.
If you did move the mounts by 1/2", these two pics below shows the best separation you could get.
You could move the three mounting holes back 1/4". The outer holes are for the tabs on the mounting spacer and the center is for the mounting screw which needs to be tapped. I am also going to look into mounting the kadee on the kinematic mounting arm. That doesn't look promising.
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Thank you RICH!!!!!!!!!!!
