Lionel NEW Union Pacific 21 inch Excursion passenger cars -

J Daddy posted:

Anyone get their new Lionel passenger car sets in? .  .  .  Pictures please!

I purchased the UP variant so I will be waiting a tad longer.

Same here - on both counts. Very keen to see the advertised differences between these cars and the original run. And if there's any difference in the interior details I'm particularly interested in that. I know better than to expect passengers but a long time ago Lionel (in the person of Mike R.) stated the later run would be more "prototypical" than the first inside as well as out.

I  hope they took the stilts out of the truck bolsters! 

I have the SP cars on order but haven't heard anything yet.

J Daddy,

   That is one great picture!

PCRR/Dave

I believed most of the cars are on the water, as Dave Olson mentioned in a thread that I created. 

• Southern Pacific: Here
• Amtrak: Here
• NYC ESE #2: Here

• Pennsy Broadway limited: On the water
• Penn Central: On the water
• CSX: On the water
• AFT: On the water
• UP Excursion: On the water
• Conrail: On the water
• Burlington Northern: On the water
• ACL: To be built still

Train Diesel,  That me waiting for my UP Station Sounds Diner Car, and my MTH Premier line UP 5 car Passenger Set.

J Daddy posted:

Anyone get their new Lionel passenger car sets in? I believe they are coming out this week? Pictures please!

I purchased the UP variant so I will be waiting a tad longer.

I have the SP cars on order I have heard nothing yet

Since they shipped out last week, has anyone who lives close to a concord dealer received theirs yet? 

Clem - did you get a set?

I ventured into the CSX Theater car and the CSX Stationsounds Diner car, hopefully they will come in February, lots of Train items came late December, early January...Wow...I will post pictures when they arrive....

I really wish we had a choice to get the 18 inch car, instead of the 21 inch cars. Reason being, the 18 inch cars look better on my layout....Not Complaining, 21 inch looks ok to.  Great thread...

My bet is I see the theater UP car first. ... before the UP passenger set comes in.

I'm also waiting on UP... i say.... April.... that's my guess..

kinda wish i had pulled the trigger on SP, but my 18" SP MTH cars look just fine.

Waiting for the PRR's...it will be the last PRR cars I will have on the layout, I will be selling off the old PRR 18" when I find them.

J Daddy posted:

Clem - did you get a set?

Nope sit way to high for me, maybe this release will be better. Be nice to get the Amtrak but I have to see it first. I'm spoiled by Atlas CZ cars.

The ever reliable Charles Ro website shows the SP, Amtrak and ESE cars as available from10 Jan. From past experience that usually means when they are shipped from Lionel to Ro and the onward shipping happens fast. So these cars might only just have entered Ro’s customer delivery chain and other dealers may not have their consignments yet. So although hope springs eternal I am not counting on seeing any of these this weekend.

clem k posted:

Nope sit way to high for me, maybe this release will be better. Be nice to get the Amtrak but I have to see it first. I'm spoiled by Atlas CZ cars.

I agree with that.  The Atlas California Zephyr cars are the standard by which all others are judged.  Feature for feature, inch by inch and details vs details... Atlas is hard to beat.  Even the tinted windows and internal lighting are best in class. 

Hancock52 posted:

The ever reliable Charles Ro website shows the SP, Amtrak and ESE cars as available from10 Jan. From past experience that usually means when they are shipped from Lionel to Ro and the onward shipping happens fast. So these cars might only just have entered Ro’s customer delivery chain ....

The date quoted on Charlie Ro's website is the date he expects the cars to arrive at his store.  Upon arrival the website is usually updated very quickly to say "in stock".  And since that hasn't happened yet for any of the 21" passenger cars you mentioned, it's quite likely they still haven't arrived.

Maybe next week?

David

Rocky Mountaineer posted:

The date quoted on Charlie Ro's website is the date he expects the cars to arrive at his store.  Upon arrival the website is usually updated very quickly to say "in stock".  And since that hasn't happened yet for any of the 21" passenger cars you mentioned, it's quite likely they still haven't arrived.

Maybe next week?

David

The last time I had a pre-order with Ro the item shipped out to me before the website was updated. But yes, and in line with what you say, you'd expect an update by now if Ro had actually had any of these in.

Next week? I hope so but it's got to the point where I'll only believe it when I see it.

Hancock52 posted:

Rocky Mountaineer posted:

The date quoted on Charlie Ro's website is the date he expects the cars to arrive at his store.  Upon arrival the website is usually updated very quickly to say "in stock".  And since that hasn't happened yet for any of the 21" passenger cars you mentioned, it's quite likely they still haven't arrived.

Maybe next week?

David

The last time I had a pre-order with Ro the item shipped out to me before the website was updated. But yes, and in line with what you say, you'd expect an update by now if Ro had actually had any of these in.

Next week? I hope so but it's got to the point where I'll only believe it when I see it.

And the Sp, AMTRAK, and NYCESE were confirmed to be here! So they must be on a truck somewhere. 

@T1Titan_ZachF posted:

And the Sp, AMTRAK, and NYCESE were confirmed to be here! So they must be on a truck somewhere. 

The truck(s) in question seem to be lost. These must be the most elusive passenger car models ever made by Lionel.

Still no sightings??? Maybe one of the improvements over the first run of these 21" ABS cars is that the new run is invisible!

Hancock52 posted:

@T1Titan_ZachF posted:

And the Sp, AMTRAK, and NYCESE were confirmed to be here! So they must be on a truck somewhere. 

The truck(s) in question seem to be lost. These must be the most elusive passenger car models ever made by Lionel.

Still no sightings??? Maybe one of the improvements over the first run of these 21" ABS cars is that the new run is invisible!

Or in the new station-sounds diners, instead of the ¨We have arrived sequence,¨ the station announcement could say - ¨Attention passengers, WERE FINALLY HERE.¨

This whole 21 passenger cars situation reminds me of the original ¨Casey Jones¨ cartoon.

Welp, I'm still waiting for them to get in stock at Trains & Lanes...

To J Daddy and other interested parties: FYI, I started another thread on this topic to try to get to the bottom of where these cars are (or are not). It seems that they are arriving now at dealers. Go here for the update: https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/...33#77593417200677633

There’s a charge on my card from Ro. Something 21” long is coming, I’m just not sure what. It was only a charge for a SS diner or a 2 pack. 

YESSSSSSS!!!!!!!! THE 1st Round is coming!!!!

J Daddy posted:

Where are they ?!

Still on a truck (not "on the water") but this time it will be going to the buyers rather than the sellers.

How do they look... WE NEED ANSWERS!  waiting is the hardest part...

Agreed - and how they look inside as well as out. ANSWERS PLEASE!

(Below is me not spotting somebody else's UPS/Fedex.)

Mine are coming Tuesday.

was at the Amherst show and the folks at the Lionel booth said they will address the "high-water" trucks. They said the new ones would have the trucks closer to the body---wonder if they fixed it on these

Yeah no new catalog but a flyer and demonstration of the NYC Niagara.

I looked on charles ro today and they HAVE THE AMTRAK CARS and PC stationsounds diner in stock. 

So Has anyone purchase the entire Amtrak set? Any pictures of the cars in detail?

Thanks

Got tracking #'s for the SP cars today from Nassau Hobby. Should be here tomorrow or Saturday. Sure has been a long wait for these.

                                    JG

What J DADDY asked above.

J Daddy posted:

So Has anyone purchase the entire Amtrak set? Any pictures of the cars in detail?

Thanks

I ordered the Amtrak Stationsounds diner and I am expecting it soon!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

@T1Titan_ZachF posted:

J Daddy posted:

So Has anyone purchase the entire Amtrak set? Any pictures of the cars in detail?

Thanks

I ordered the Amtrak Stationsounds diner and I am expecting it soon!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't have that one on order (mines the delayed UP Excursion "Overland" diner) but I'd be very intrigued to see what the Amtrak version looks like. I already have the 1st run Texas Special diner and the sound sequences are a total crowd pleaser.

This is the Amtrak StationSounds diner.

Neal Jeter

Received the 21" Amtrak cars  on Saturday 1/27 beautiful cars, brought the dinner sound car to the New Eagle train show for a test run, as adivertised led lights don't flicker and has many station and other sounds including the clicked clak of rails. I'm empressed as was everyone within hearing distance of the sounds,etc, watching it run.

Jack

Lionlman posted:

This is the Amtrak StationSounds diner.

Neal Jeter

 

IT LOOKS BEAUTIFUL!!!!! Once mine arrives I will do a full review of it on Youtube. What dealer did you purchase yours from? I still did not receive mine. 

Now That is What I am talking about!

Zach:

I ordered mine from Charles Ro.  He shipped it Tuesday and I got it yesterday.

Neal Jeter

Thanks Neal!

that's a sharp car for sure

J Daddy posted:

Now That is What I am talking about!

I'm thinking this youngster isn't looking at a darn old train car!

     LUNCH!!!!,  is all that's on that critters mind!!!

aterry11 posted:

     LUNCH!!!!,  is all that's on that critters mind!!!

Or a good B.M.

Did anyone purchase the CSX passenger cars? Any pics?

J Daddy posted:

Did anyone purchase the CSX passenger cars? Any pics?

I did,  it's my understanding they are still on the water.   Charles ro usually has the most accurate shipping info any they have 3/10 listed 

So looks like they are coming in possibly next weekend?

Word is from my LHS that the UP excursion cars are headed to the distributors now. 

This is getting to be mind numbing...

I just filmed a review on my Amtrak Stationsounds diner, so if you are considering buying one I suggest you take a look! 

(I had no quality control issues on this car)

Yet I still hope for the UP Excursion fleet, and hopefully some additional cars in the future.

J Daddy posted:

So looks like they are coming in possibly next weekend?

Word is from my LHS that the UP excursion cars are headed to the distributors now. 

This is getting to be mind numbing...

Has anyone heard if it is the entire set of cars or if it is just the 4 pack? I have seen so many dates by many vendors.... greatly looking forward to the entire set.

Don't worry, you're wait is almost over!  All of the UP cars will be leaving our warehouse this week. I inspected several cases of each this morning. Along with the UP cars will be the rest of the Penn Centrals, Pennsy, Freedom Train, CSX, BN, Conrail.... Essentially everything except for the full length dome and theater cars.

Conrail6358 posted:

Don't worry, you're wait is almost over!  All of the UP cars will be leaving our warehouse this week. I inspected several cases of each this morning. Along with the UP cars will be the rest of the Penn Centrals, Pennsy, Freedom Train, CSX, BN, Conrail.... Essentially everything except for the full length dome and theater cars.

 

Thanks for the update Ryan,

that excursion baggage car looks great. Cant wait for my set! Praying for good QC and shipping and a flawless set that’s worth the wait!!

Fantastic! Thanks Ryan.

I think I see mine right there on top, second stack -

So just curious I have the AFT cars on order. The cars were suppose to be 18 inches but the box shown says 21. I remember a discussion saying that 18 inches was prototypical for these

    Bob

Also hoping it's the camera but the bottom car's display window looks too rectangular

Bob

An order for "The Challenger" set is riding on the excursion set appearance:

Riveted roof.

Look of the blunt end Observation.

Ride height.

The domes, the precious domes.

Hope is a four letter word.

So how is the theatre car coming along?

@Dave Olson

As per a post by Mike Reagan back when these cars were first announced. He assured me the display cars would 18 inches and the rest would be 21. This is why I went ahead and ordered them

Bob

spbob posted:

As per a post by Mike Reagan back when these cars were first announced. He assured me the display cars would 18 inches and the rest would be 21. This is why I went ahead and ordered them

Bob

Like yourself,   some time ago after the next group of AFT cars was announced,    I emailed Lionel with my concerns about getting the AFT cars made correctly.   Received an email from Ryan Kunkle assuring me that the display cars would be the correct lenget(18") and the other AFT cars(passenger) would be 21".   He also replied that Lionel would try to be as accurate as possible and that in the long term they would hope to produce the entire AFT.    I also have all the cars ordered.    Just seeing that one photo above,  I'm getting uneasy.   The display windows do look rectangular instead of square (as on the real AFT cars).   In addition,  the skirting beneath each door/display area is not right.   The skirting should have started much closer towards the end of the car(as on the real AFT cars),  not starting almost directly under the outside frame of the display window area.   The cars do appear to be the correct 18" length as compared to the other cars pictured(the gap from the ends of the AFT cars to the clear window opening is much greater than gap on the other cars pictured).

Nick 

The AFT cars look like they are 18". I know the packaging says 21", but compare the AFT picture to the others above. The other cars reach both ends of the box windows but the AFT cars do not by about 1 1/2" on each end.  So not saying they are but things look promising.

I hadn't noticed the skirting it is shorter. Oh well just have to wait and see

Conrail6358 posted:

Don't worry, you're wait is almost over!  All of the UP cars will be leaving our warehouse this week. I inspected several cases of each this morning. Along with the UP cars will be the rest of the Penn Centrals, Pennsy, Freedom Train, CSX, BN, Conrail.... Essentially everything except for the full length dome and theater cars.

 

Thank you very much for sharing the good news Ryan! Really looking forward to the entire set! Seeing the first car makes more excited for the Challenger set as well! The BN set looks incredibly sharp too.

WITZ 41 posted:

An order for "The Challenger" set is riding on the excursion set appearance:

Riveted roof.

Look of the blunt end Observation.

Ride height.

The domes, the precious domes.

Hope is a four letter word.

Not me.  I took the leap of faith and pre ordered it. Just hope it's not another 3 year wait.

Thanks for the pictures. The ACF rivets on the flag baggage  roof look stupendous, they even nailed the rubber tube replacement diaphragms.  Fingers crossed the Portland rose passenger cars looks as nice, may have to buy extras to cut up in future?  Now If I can just remember who I preordered from?  Looking back I seem tyo not have got a confirmation of my order.

Nice pictures!  Can't wait for the UP set.

I may have to get the Amtrak dining car only and add it to my San Francisco Zephyr. I am not crazy on the window layout of the dome car or the ex NYC Budd Tavern observation car.

Hey guys! I just picked up the Penn Central Stationsounds diner and have made a full review video on it on Youtube. Feel free to watch it if you desire!

Suggest you use a tripod or at least put the camera on something while you are shooting. Was getting dizzy...

Also some side lighting so we could see the truck detail that you so nicely describe. Good start however  :-)

c.sam posted:

Suggest you use a tripod or at least put the camera on something while you are shooting. Was getting dizzy...

Excellent suggestion! I could take only about a minute or two and had to give up.

That thing is nice. Thanks for posting, Nick.

Blue Streak posted:

The AFT cars look like they are 18". I know the packaging says 21", but compare the AFT picture to the others above. The other cars reach both ends of the box windows but the AFT cars do not by about 1 1/2" on each end.  So not saying they are but things look promising.

 

They are 18", were supposed to be 18" based on the prototype size. This has been known pretty much since these cars were announced.

AmtrakNickFilms posted:

Hey guys! I just picked up the Penn Central Stationsounds diner and have made a full review video on it on Youtube. Feel free to watch it if you desire!

Great insight on the new car! Thank you for sharing! 

I just finished detailing the "Portland Rose" Coach from the UP Excursion 2-pack.  Here are a few pictures.  When the glue dries I will put the car back together in the morning.

Painting the Preiser 65602 Seated People 24 pack takes a day.  The car seats have three coats of paint.  The release oil for the molds is making it necessary for an extra coat of Flat Acryl paint.

Tracking says my set will arrive tomorrow! Extremely excited! Granted after seeing the Amtrak cars, kind of thinking I should of order them as well.

John Rowlen posted:

I just finished detailing the "Portland Rose" Coach from the UP Excursion 2-pack.  Here are a few pictures.  When the glue dries I will put the car back together in the morning.

Painting the Preiser 65602 Seated People 24 pack takes a day.  The car seats have three coats of paint.  The release oil for the molds is making it necessary for an extra coat of Flat Acryl paint.

John, the cars look sharp on your layout! What radius is the track in which the cars are on?

John Rowlen posted:

I just finished detailing the "Portland Rose" Coach from the UP Excursion 2-pack.  Here are a few pictures.  When the glue dries I will put the car back together in the morning.

Painting the Preiser 65602 Seated People 24 pack takes a day.  The car seats have three coats of paint.  The release oil for the molds is making it necessary for an extra coat of Flat Acryl paint.

Great work! They look spectacular.

I just got the email that mine have shipped. Patience is a virtue.

The charge from Ro is one two pack short, will have to find out which it is. Hopefully they aren't short on stock. 

The UP Frontier Days Excursion cars are very nice as they come from the factory.  There may be coupler or truck adjustments needed on individual cars. 

I have ordered 3/16" "E"-clips from Home Depot to replace the silver clips Lionel used because two opened up and dropped a trucks from the floor of two cars.  This is my own choosing to strengthen  the clips with steel 3/16" replacements.

These cars are secured with double-sided tape along the body shell.  Removing the four body screws is just the beginning of opening up the car.  A sharp #11 Excel blade was my choice to break loose the double-sided tape.  Be careful when cutting to avoid nicking the paint on the bottom of the car with the knife. I have a few dings in mine. The double-sided tape makes sense on the Dome Cars, but is absolutely unnecessary on the Coaches and Dining Car --- but it is there and difficult to deal with.

The car shells are all new tooling, but the insides are from the previous run, except the Observation rear half floor with couches and coffee tables.

My Layout: "Valley of Bridges"  The track is Atlas O Century track with a minimum of O-72 curves.  The picture was taken at the point where the train crossed a Double Pratt Bridge and turned onto O-72 curves.  There may be a O-81 inserted to widen the depth of the curve.  There are four tracks negotiating this turn, two main line (outside) with two yard tracks inside, all minimum O-72.  The yard sidings start at the other side of the layout at the "Village of Deichman" and cross a few interlocks to get to the businesses nearest my control table and Double Pratt Bridge.  Designing the layout was a lesson in Geometry using many short filler tracks.  The layout is more scenic than practical and was built using a used Vision Line Big Boy #4014 as the test engine for curve-clearance as I laid track.  If the Big Boy cleared the auto carriers on the track or wall next to it, the layout was good.

Inspect the cars as soon as they arrive, so any damage can be reported to the dealer.  Stock on these cars will disappear quickly.  Enjoy your UP Excursion cars.  

Got my FED EX notice from RO today it will be here on Wednesday.

laz1957 posted:

Got my FED EX notice from RO today it will be here on Wednesday.

I think FedEx must be dispatching a 53' rig to Charlie's place this afternoon -- just for all the new 21" passenger car shipments going out to customers!    Must be quite the beehive of activity there today.

David

I received a PRR 4 pack and diner from Ro yesterday and another 4 pack scheduled for tomorrow.  I can't wait to run them behind the VL GG1 at the club on Wednesday. 

John Rowlen posted:

The UP Frontier Days Excursion cars are very nice as they come from the factory.  There may be coupler or truck adjustments needed on individual cars. 

I have ordered 3/16" "E"-clips from Home Depot to replace the silver clips Lionel used because two opened up and dropped a trucks from the floor of two cars.  This is my own choosing to strengthen  the clips with steel 3/16" replacements.

These cars are secured with double-sided tape along the body shell.  Removing the four body screws is just the beginning of opening up the car.  A sharp #11 Excel blade was my choice to break loose the double-sided tape.  Be careful when cutting to avoid nicking the paint on the bottom of the car with the knife. I have a few dings in mine. The double-sided tape makes sense on the Dome Cars, but is absolutely unnecessary on the Coaches and Dining Car --- but it is there and difficult to deal with.

The car shells are all new tooling, but the insides are from the previous run, except the Observation rear half floor with couches and coffee tables.

My Layout: "Valley of Bridges"  The track is Atlas O Century track with a minimum of O-72 curves.  The picture was taken at the point where the train crossed a Double Pratt Bridge and turned onto O-72 curves.  There may be a O-81 inserted to widen the depth of the curve.  There are four tracks negotiating this turn, two main line (outside) with two yard tracks inside, all minimum O-72.  The yard sidings start at the other side of the layout at the "Village of Deichman" and cross a few interlocks to get to the businesses nearest my control table and Double Pratt Bridge.  Designing the layout was a lesson in Geometry using many short filler tracks.  The layout is more scenic than practical and was built using a used Vision Line Big Boy #4014 as the test engine for curve-clearance as I laid track.  If the Big Boy cleared the auto carriers on the track or wall next to it, the layout was good.

Inspect the cars as soon as they arrive, so any damage can be reported to the dealer.  Stock on these cars will disappear quickly.  Enjoy your UP Excursion cars.  

Hi John,  thanks for all of your suggestions on the UP cars.  I like my set, and also like you I had some difficulty in getting the cars separated from the body, So I created a separate thread on that on how I did it.  I hope to add some interior details like you did.

Here is the link to the removing shell from body thread...

https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/...rsion-passenger-cars

  All  the best, dave

I just finished cutting and installing seat backs into the 6-83006 UP Excursion "Overland" Station Sounds dining car.  Tomorrow I will add seated people.  Because of the double-sided tape holding the body in place, when I seal it up, I don't want to add more to it later.  Getting the car open once was enough.

The table tops will get another coat of white flat acryl paint (the fourth coat) before the people are installed by careful grinding and trimming and maybe paint touch-up if necessary.

It would appear from the pictures posted so far that there is not a single Roof Vent on any car, ugh, should be min 3 to 6 per car where appropriate. How could this be overlooked ?  Now I wonder if the Broadway Limited cars will have any Roof Vents, lets see the pictures please,

Thanks Dean 

The only car with a roof vent (two) is the Station Sounds Dining Car with two vents over the kitchen.  All other cars have smooth roofs and no vents.  Good eye.  If you find an after market roof vent, please post the information of manufacturer and roof placement position.

Forum sponsor Scale City Designs. I couldn't find one on Delta Models.

http://scalecitydesigns.com/48...scale-fka-keil-line/

not my video, nonetheless, heres one I saw on youtube 

https://youtu.be/Xh-HbbeGff8

I prefer the clickity-clack sounds of the old StationSounds Diners.  The new sound file sounds like very similar to the noises that the PS-1 sound equipped boxcars make.  Maybe the new ones do make a clickity-clack sound and it just could not be heard over the BB....I dk.  For my tastes, I think the high pitched squealing rail sound is triggered too frequently.  To each their own.

T4TT posted:

I prefer the clickity-clack sounds of the old StationSounds Diners.  The new sound file sounds like very similar to the noises that the PS-1 sound equipped boxcars make.  Maybe the new ones do make a clickity-clack sound and it just could not be heard over the BB....I dk.  For my tastes, I think the high pitched squealing rail sound is triggered too frequently.  To each their own.

The new cars do have a "rail clatter" or clickety-clack feature that can be turned off and on from the CAB 2 remote. To me it sounds the same as the TMCC sound effect. Maybe in the video the guy had not turned it on. 

The manuals for the first run of ABS diners (I am not sure there are any manuals included with these newer cars) makes it clear that they do indeed have all but one of the same sound effects as the Freightsounds cars. (The deleted effect is the flat wheel sequence.) I agree about the squealing wheel/rail sound which Lionel calls "wheel flange grind" sound but that can also be toggled on and off from the CAB 2 remote. 

I have the PS-1 boxcar, which have what I call: bowling alley sounds

Craignor posted:

I have the PS-1 boxcar, which have what I call: bowling alley sounds

Bowling alley sounds....awesome....I had to laugh. I agree

I just finished adding Preiser 65602 and 68209 figures to my Lionel 6-83006 UP Excursion "Overland" Station Sounds Dining Car.  Tomorrow when the glue is dry and I pick up the new 3/16" "E-clips" for the truck posts, I will closed it up.

I left two tables open so there is room for you and me in the car.  A car is seldom packed to capacity when I detail car.

Craignor posted:

I have the PS-1 boxcar, which have what I call: bowling alley sounds

I have three of those HD washing machines, when you put them in one train it sounds like you are in a  Laundromat.

jini5 posted:

Craignor posted:

I have the PS-1 boxcar, which have what I call: bowling alley sounds

Bowling alley sounds....awesome....I had to laugh. I agree

Same here, all too true.

Here is a link to the 21"  SS Diner manual.  I do not have one yet, I only have the older TMCC 18" Diners.  Having read the manual, the new Legacy version has a lot more options and more audio scenes than the older versions.  I look forward to purchasing one some day!

Do the new 21" SS Diners have a sensor on a wheel/axle to determine the car's speed like the older 18" cars and the VL reefers or are the they "dumbed down" like the PS-1 railsounds boxcars?

thanks

T4TT posted:

Do the new 21" SS Diners have a sensor on a wheel/axle to determine the car's speed like the older 18" cars and the VL reefers or are the they "dumbed down" like the PS-1 railsounds boxcars?

thanks

They have a Hall Effect sensor as did the TMCC diners; no dumbing down on these.

The Dining Car can communicate when in a consist and linked with the engine. Press AUX1 and as the engine responds, the dining car boarding announcement sounds: "Ladies and Gentlemen the UP Frontier Days Excursion is ready for departure." 

At Speed Step 1 the "All Aboard" is sounded.

At Speed Step "72" the conductor calls for "Tickets, Tickets please".

When the train stops, the conductor speaks saying the train will proceed in a moment.  Timmy, the young boy and his mother, are also on board by using the #3 Key on the Remote.

This feature may require an update of your 990 Remote. It is a very nice feature.  Enjoy.

Does anyone have a PN and manufacture for the new C clips I need to buy? I may as well purchase these and have them ready.

Hancock52 posted:

T4TT posted:

Do the new 21" SS Diners have a sensor on a wheel/axle to determine the car's speed like the older 18" cars and the VL reefers or are the they "dumbed down" like the PS-1 railsounds boxcars?

thanks

They have a Hall Effect sensor as did the TMCC diners; no dumbing down on these.

That is great news!!!  Thanks for the info.

Here is the Video I made about my Amtrak Diner. Works like a beauty!

J DADDY,  The E-Clips from the Home Depot Store are "EVERBILT" 568 622  3/16" Plain Steel 2-packs.  The bar code is 8 87480 09508 1.  I have used these on previous Southern Pacific cars.

My order from Home Depot-on-line for 30 packs arrived as "CROWN BILT"  CB #43638  Plain 2-packs.  The bar code is 0 30699 43638 5.  I have not tried these yet, but they look the same as the Everbilt.

Replacement is optional, but I have had two trucks come off these new cars.  Because the UP cars are sealed with what appears to be double-sided tape, I am replacing the E-clips as I detail my cars.  The silver Lionel E-clips are easy to bend out of "round" shape when applied to the truck post.  I made Dean at Lionel Service aware of this fact.

Have fun tinkering with these cars. 

I have had to bend truck mount plates up or down to get all four wheels touching the rail.  The metal is easily bent and may account for why a "re-bending repair" becomes necessary.

The couplers also need to be bent downward (toward the track) on the Kinematic plate on a car on occasion.  As the cars pull, there is a tendency for the coupler to want to raise upward, causing the car to uncouple.

Consider this cars like a guitar that needs to be "tuned up" now and then.  It is music to my ears when everything is working well.

These cars have mounting pads for Kadee couplers, right? 

If so, the video I have seen suggests that the kinematic close coupling mechanism on these cars still leaves a considerable gap between the cars, and there seems to be no obvious reason to carry on  with Lionel’s problematic coupler mechanism in preference to Kadees. After all, how often do you use the uncoupling mechanism?

I say this although I have not seen my Excursion cars yet but I will have at least a few on the rails tonight.

I just received my 2 pack with the Flag baggage car and the Passenger car.  On the Baggage car the one truck will not move, from side to side, left and right.   The other truck moves okay. Anyone else have this problem?

There should be a large (3/4" circumference. 3/16" hole approx.) brass washer between the truck and the car floor as the truck post goes through the floor. It is then held in place inside the car by an "E-clip".  If the washer is missing, the truck has four points around the washer that may be digging into the floor bottom of the car.

Even with the washer missing, the trucks should hang from the bottom of the car and turn. When you put it on the track, it would bind without the washer because the four fingers would dig into the floor.

If the truck does not turn when hanging from the car, it is possible the factory assembler put TWO washers on the post and the jammed the "E-clip on the inside post to hold it on.   It would create a pinching between the truck and the floor of the car because the clearance is filled with TWO brass washers.  Go luck.  Ask further questions if needed.

I just closed up my detailed "Overland" Dining Car.  Here is a peek through the windows.

I worked on my Generator Car and was going to add new "E=clips", only to find that the center floor screws were driven deeply into the plastic floor piece and would not turn.  I can only hope the trucks do not loosen.

I opened my Flag Baggage Car and found that it too had the middle screws buried into the plastic Chinese RED floor.  The red floor was just noticeable through the windows, so I painted the floor a four-color "wet blend" of stripes of Sand, Yellow, Dark Earth and Earth Red Acryl Flat Paint. Because I had planned on detailing the car interior and had bags of Woodland Scenic crates and boxes and bicycles, I added a few pieces around the Door Windows to give a quick glimpse of freight as the car passes by.  It might not be that visible, but I know it's there.  On my railroad, we don't pull empty cars unless we have to.

I closed up the UP Flag Baggage Car and had to Dremel Sand the edge of the red floor.  As screwed into the car by the factory, it was at an angle and overlapping the metal car chassis.  Both opposing edges needed 1/16" sanded off the floor edge to get it even with the car floor.  This floor piece could not be removed to replace the 3/16" E-clips because the middle screws were screwed deeply into the floor and would not turn.

The baggage and bicycles and painted wood floor are visible through the windows as the car passes.  Here are a few pictures.  For me, it was worth the little extra effort.  The newly painted floor is better than the red plastic that was originally showing inside the car.

John Rowlen posted:

There should be a large (3/4" circumference. 3/16" hole approx.) brass washer between the truck and the car floor as the truck post goes through the floor. It is then held in place inside the car by an "E-clip".  If the washer is missing, the truck has four points around the washer that may be digging into the floor bottom of the car.

Even with the washer missing, the trucks should hang from the bottom of the car and turn. When you put it on the track, it would bind without the washer because the four fingers would dig into the floor.

If the truck does not turn when hanging from the car, it is possible the factory assembler put TWO washers on the post and the jammed the "E-clip on the inside post to hold it on.   It would create a pinching between the truck and the floor of the car because the clearance is filled with TWO brass washers.  Go luck.  Ask further questions if needed.

I just closed up my detailed "Overland" Dining Car.  Here is a peek through the windows.

Nice work and good info.

So far I have only unboxed my UP set. No dangling trucks and for the most part they appear to turn as they should. On one car there is some undercarriage detail (a piece of wire) that was left too long and binds on the truck. That can be easily rectified - but read on.

I am a little reluctant to power up either the Generator or the Dining Car until I have checked the wiring (my first run Texas Special diner had a screw driven through a power wire and that fried the control board first time I put power to it). Obviously if the body of the Diner is taped in place (probably accidentally if the tape was meant to secure the windows) taking it off is no small exercise and I'm not sure I can start and finish it in the time I have available. 

I think in an earlier thread you mentioned that there's an internal partition in the Overland Diner right in the middle of a window. I still see it in your photos so I guess you decided not to remove it. I will on mine; it should not be there and at that end of the car there's actually a massive amount of room to put in a buffet, which would be more realistic than a partition in the wrong place. The TMCC diners had this piece of interior detail but it was in the right place.

Generally I have to say that while these cars are superficially attractive the build/assembly quality leaves a lot to be desired. Putting in place screws that don't allow removal of the interior sections is an obvious assembly mistake that could have been avoided. More to the point, with plain colored and passenger-less interiors the cars just look bland. I have not found anything wrong I cannot fix myself, or not yet, but frankly I don't regard these cars as living up to their billing. I'll keep them but the detailing needed to make them fit for purpose is no small effort that I could do without.

Thanks for the info on the trucks.  Your Cars are looking great!!! 

Lionel had the screws put in real hard and that binded the sides so hard that truck couldn't move.  I took the baggage car apart and put back to gether and was fixed.  But doing so the one door that swings open came off.  I was lucky enough to find the spring and o hinge to put back together.  Man that was a tedious job but managed it well.  Wish Lionel would have better quality control.

No one mentioned they come with scale coupler mounting pads.  Ill bet the kadees will even tighten the gap even more.

Budkole posted:

No one mentioned they come with scale coupler mounting pads.  Ill bet the kadees will even tighten the gap even more.

Not specifically in this thread, but its been a topic of discussion on other threads. I am sure it will reduce the gap and I am not sure which Kadee coupler to use for the optimal gap on 072 curves? Even the Kadee long shank maybe too short? I was going to look at the Kadee no. 746:

I have a "curosity" question.  While looking at the pictures of passengers inserted into the cars above, it appears that no more than one passenger will fit in seats "meant" for two.  Does this mean that the passengers are "over-sized," or are the seats "under-sized"?  Or, alternatively, are my eyes being fooled by the camera image?

Chuck

PRR1950 posted:

I have a "curosity" question.  While looking at the pictures of passengers inserted into the cars above, it appears that no more than one passenger will fit in seats "meant" for two.  Does this mean that the passengers are "over-sized," or are the seats "under-sized"?  Or, alternatively, are my eyes being fooled by the camera image?

Chuck

The passengers being used by John R. are Preiser figures and so true O scale. The interiors are not true O scale but smaller yet not as small as those in Lionel’s earlier 21” cars. Those were nearer S scale than O. From visual inspection of my Excursion cars (I have not taken any apart yet) it looks like Lionel left some extra room between seats in the coaches and dome car lower levels, which facilitates putting in the somewhat larger scale figures. In the diner there are gaps in the floor under the tables, which is a consequence of how they were molded but makes putting larger passengers in easier.

I have some of the Preiser figures and a few could fit two to a coach seat but generally they are too big (as in wide) for that. In any case from reading John’s posts he has had to grind down the posteriors of the Preiser figures to ensure they fit!

One of the things that I think shows these interiors are somewhat bigger than the previous Lionel cars is that the larger seated figures do sit square in the windows rather than with their heads above them. But that may be partly a consequence of grinding them down.

Budkole posted:

No one mentioned they come with scale coupler mounting pads.  Ill bet the kadees will even tighten the gap even more.

Can someone post a picture of the factory truck coupler set up on these.   I’ve been modifying tricks and couplers a lot here lately this might be my next project 

J DADDY,

    I have some info on the Kadee mounts...its not good. 

I got these UP passenger cars a few days ago and I will say I really like them and they are a step above anything else out there.

However, the Kadees do nothing to bring the cars closer together.  The conversion is not too bad, you must remove a lot of parts with the 3-rail couplers first, then the mounting bracket and Kadees are very easy to mount.

This pic is with the 3-rail couplers

This is with the shortest #743 Kadees

This is with the longer #740 Kadees.  There is no difference between any of them.

This shows the longer (not longest) Kadee #740 work fine on min O72 curves.

You could close the gap by about 1/2" if you could move the mounts.

If you did move the mounts by 1/2", these two pics below shows the best separation you could get.

`

You could move the three mounting holes back 1/4".  The outer holes are for the tabs on the mounting spacer and the center is for the mounting screw which needs to be tapped.  I am also going to look into mounting the kadee on the kinematic mounting arm.  That doesn't look promising.

Thank you RICH!!!!!!!!!!!

Rich, you think that if the coupler pad was custom mounted to sit further back and long shank drawbars are used...that would make it better?

For Rich or anyone else doing Kadee replacements I would be interested in the Kinematic coupler take offs but only if they are complete with all hardware and not damaged.

Pete

Rich those Kadee mounting's just look wrong.   Couldn't they be mounted in the existing holes in the floor ? I see there are three holes there. Can you show a photo of the mounting pad ? this is interesting.

Clem

Frank,

    Yes, I think if you move the mounts straight back 1/4" on each car, the cars will essentially move forward or together 1/2" (combined) and you will still have about the same reach with the #740 coupler on the curves, so it should work.  The cars are just too far apart and the only improvement is the look of the smaller couplers.  It will be worth the effort to move them 1/2" closer. 

I did take a look at mounting to the kinematic arm and it is possible by making a  mounting plate to hole the Kadee box and mount it to the kinematic mounting ring.  I'm still looking into it.  It may be the same amount of work.  It will move them very close however the kadee box will be floating under the body and not sure how that will look and work yet.  Its easy enough to try without damaging anything.  I doubt I'll get to it soon.

Pete,

  If I don't use the kinematic parts, I will probable still keep them in case I sell the cars.

Clem,

  You can not mount to the holes in the floor, the coupler would be too high so you need the mounting spacer.  I show the mounting spacer on its side in the pics of the underside.  The mounting spacer has two tabs that insert into the outer holes and the center is for the screw.  I don't see any other way to mount it.  Gotta run, I'll check back later.

OK Rich... I see it now, I thought that was part of the car.      Thank's.....Clem 

Cant Wait to get my Set of Cars!  Thanks for posting pics and love the custom detailing!

 After staring at your pics for awhile.  Rich if you turned the supplied mounting pad around will that change the kadee position and draw the cars closer together?   The pins will still fit into the outside holes on the car and the coupler box, and visually it looks like you might lose the spacing.  Its free and worth a shot.

   Hancock52 not only is the interior undersized but so are all the underbody details. I was hoping for accuracy and the ability to use the details to mold some more for other cars but sadly no love for me.  I guess I will just have to keep faking my own split ac units.

 Josh,  love your work on the interiors but the baggage car has one split door and is for a looking not for baggage.   Imagine an entire DCI drumcorps hornline about 70 kids and instruments practicing in that car as it rolls west from Omaha toward Cheyenne.   Tight fit but been there done that.  And much praise and thanks to UP for providing me with the opportunity.  Not sure about the current remodel but there's an ac unit now.  79, 80, and 81 it was un airconditioned and no flag on the exterior those half doors and speed made things tolerable to practice a couple hours. Then give the drumline their turn and after that the colorguard.

Any chance of replacing the entire truck with the atlas adjustable trucks likes on their zephyr cars.    not the cheapest I'm sure but if you could make it work it'd give you adjustability.

They look great 

My Atlas O California Zephyr cars look great, but I had to move the couplers out so far that they are no longer closely coupled.  Bill at Atlas O suggested making the gap bigger between cars because my Dome cars were derailing on O-72 curves when closely coupled.  

The Quest For Closely Coupled Cars may lead to Operational Issues: Derailments and Tipping Cars.

Inspect Your Passenger Cars.   I have received two 6-83042 "Katy Flyer" Coaches with manufacturing issues. 

The first car had marks around the logo.

The second replacement "Katy Flyer" arrived missing two horizontal grab irons on the non-viewed side if the car, hidden in the packaging from casual inspection by the dealer.

I am now buying my third set of 6-83042 UP Excursion passenger cars.  I will get a good car for detailing if I have to buy ten of them.

Here are a few vids of the cars on my floor layout.  The first car is one of the older 18" aluminum baggage cars and there is also an CZ UP leased Operation Lifesaver car in there as well.

jeremy ferrell posted:

Budkole posted:

No one mentioned they come with scale coupler mounting pads.  Ill bet the kadees will even tighten the gap even more.

Can someone post a picture of the factory truck coupler set up on these.   I’ve been modifying tricks and couplers a lot here lately this might be my next project 

I'm not sure that this will enlighten you much but this is the bottom view of the coupler assembly on one of the UP Excursion cars (the Overland diner):

It consists of a plate holding in position another plate to which the coupler is attached. This is a less complicated version of the kinematic coupler assembly on the Acela cars and I think that in fact the coupler has less much travel than it does in that assembly.  The spring that draws the coupler back when it is not extended into one of the two arms of the "Y" shaped channel is connected to the truck mounting post just behind the wheels shown in the photo.

I reckon that at full extension the coupler is no more than 5/16" further out than when it is in the default position. On these cars that do not have full width diaphragms that is probably more extension than is really needed, at least when running on O-72 track.  

I received the new UP & CSX 21” 2-pks, 4-pks & Station Sound cars this week.  The CSX 2-pk 6-683125 Cars have rubber door  diaphragms on each end of the 2 cars.   The remaining CSX & all the UP cars do not have the rubber diaphragms ??   Are all cars supposed to have the rubber diaphragms???    Can anyone answer?   (Also missing kadee conversion kits for one car)

John Rowlen posted:

Inspect Your Passenger Cars.   I have received two 6-83042 "Katy Flyer" Coaches with manufacturing issues. 

The first car had marks around the logo.

The second replacement "Katy Flyer" arrived missing two horizontal grab irons on the non-viewed side if the car, hidden in the packaging from casual inspection by the dealer.

I am now buying my third set of 6-83042 UP Excursion passenger cars.  I will get a good car for detailing if I have to buy ten of them.

Wow, very consistent poor quality with these cars. I would be beside myself.

W&W posted:

I received the new UP & CSX 21” 2-pks, 4-pks & Station Sound cars this week.  The CSX 2-pk 6-683125 Cars have rubber door  diaphragms on each end of the 2 cars.   The remaining CSX & all the UP cars do not have the rubber diaphragms ??   Are all cars supposed to have the rubber diaphragms???    Can anyone answer?   (Also missing kadee conversion kits for one car)

 

I can only answer for the UP cars, which do not have any rubber parts in the diaphragms; they model the prototypes which have something that looks more like a doorway frame than anything else. If by rubber door diaphragms you mean the full-width diaphragms like those on the ESE and SP cars, I don't understand why only two of the CSX cars have them. I guess, however, that it must be deliberate that the other cars come with something else as otherwise you'd have a gaping hole at each end of the cars!

Hancock52 posted:

W&W posted:

I received the new UP & CSX 21” 2-pks, 4-pks & Station Sound cars this week.  The CSX 2-pk 6-683125 Cars have rubber door  diaphragms on each end of the 2 cars.   The remaining CSX & all the UP cars do not have the rubber diaphragms ??   Are all cars supposed to have the rubber diaphragms???    Can anyone answer?   (Also missing kadee conversion kits for one car)

 

I can only answer for the UP cars, which do not have any rubber parts in the diaphragms; they model the prototypes which have something that looks more like a doorway frame than anything else. If by rubber door diaphragms you mean the full-width diaphragms like those on the ESE and SP cars, I don't understand why only two of the CSX cars have them. I guess, however, that it must be deliberate that the other cars come with something else as otherwise you'd have a gaping hole at each end of the cars!

The remaining CSX cars(4-pk, Station Sound Cars) do not have the diaphragms on each end of the Cars, they are like the UP cars.     I thought it was strange that the CSX 2-pk was different than the other cars.   I think the diaphragms look good, cars without have big gap between each car.  

 Maybe Ryan from Lionel can explain why.

Craignor posted:

John Rowlen posted:

Inspect Your Passenger Cars.   I have received two 6-83042 "Katy Flyer" Coaches with manufacturing issues. 

The first car had marks around the logo.

The second replacement "Katy Flyer" arrived missing two horizontal grab irons on the non-viewed side if the car, hidden in the packaging from casual inspection by the dealer.

I am now buying my third set of 6-83042 UP Excursion passenger cars.  I will get a good car for detailing if I have to buy ten of them.

Wow, very consistent poor quality with these cars. I would be beside myself.

Im not sure that its time to brand them as consistently poor quality. There were only 1 or 2 complaints so far, of the many that on here that have them.  Most often repetitive posts make it seem like a bigger issue than it really is.  At least thats the way I see it...but, Ive been wrong before.  

Mine are flawless.   Very pleased.

Budkole posted:

Rich, you think that if the coupler pad was custom mounted to sit further back and long shank drawbars are used...that would make it better?

 

The problem is, with these cars, GGD cars, or any other long passenger car is you HAVE TO have a big gap between the cars, even for 072 curves because the outsides of the cars hit each in the curves. This cause them to bind up and derail. There just isn't a way to body mount Kadees, close the gap, AND keep he cars on the track. They have to have a decent gap.

That's why after I did my GGD Daylight set, 3 different times, I stopped converting passenger cars. It just wasn't worth the time and hassle for me.

With the cars this close, it was a NO GO through the curves.

Laidoffsick posted:

Budkole posted:

Rich, you think that if the coupler pad was custom mounted to sit further back and long shank drawbars are used...that would make it better?

 

The problem is, with these cars, GGD cars, or any other long passenger car is you HAVE TO have a big gap between the cars, even for 072 curves because the outsides of the cars hit each in the curves. This cause them to bind up and derail. There just isn't a way to body mount Kadees, close the gap, AND keep he cars on the track. They have to have a decent gap.

That's why after I did my GGD Daylight set, 3 different times, I stopped converting passenger cars. It just wasn't worth the time and hassle for me.

With the cars this close, it was a NO GO through the curves.

 

 

Agree 100%.  I run 096 and if too close on curves, bad things happen.

These cars run just fine like this:

The difference??? Rubber diaphragms vs full width hard diaphragms, and truck mounted 3 rail couplers. That is why i just painted the diaphragms and left the couplers alone.

Hancock52 posted:

jeremy ferrell posted:

Budkole posted:

No one mentioned they come with scale coupler mounting pads.  Ill bet the kadees will even tighten the gap even more.

Can someone post a picture of the factory truck coupler set up on these.   I’ve been modifying tricks and couplers a lot here lately this might be my next project 

I'm not sure that this will enlighten you much but this is the bottom view of the coupler assembly on one of the UP Excursion cars (the Overland diner):

It consists of a plate holding in position another plate to which the coupler is attached. This is a less complicated version of the kinematic coupler assembly on the Acela cars and I think that in fact the coupler has less much travel than it does in that assembly.  The spring that draws the coupler back when it is not extended into one of the two arms of the "Y" shaped channel is connected to the truck mounting post just behind the wheels shown in the photo.

I reckon that at full extension the coupler is no more than 5/16" further out than when it is in the default position. On these cars that do not have full width diaphragms that is probably more extension than is really needed, at least when running on O-72 track.  

This is helpful thank you.   I think my first move will be to see if any of the other kenimatic  applications could be possible replacements.  I think the 86ft box cars use something similar along with the new auto racks.  A long shot I’m sure but you gotta start somewhere.   I will also closely inspect the assembly once mine arrive to see if the couplers themselves could somehow be shortened.  I really think if all else fails the scale couplers will acomplish what I’m looking for.  But I will exhaust all options before going that route.  I think the problem with these is the full width diaphram cars almost need a different coupler than the standard diaphram version.  But thats probably asking for a lot.   The full width cars need more Tavel from what I’ve read. However that would have made These cars look all the worse.   It’s like they settled for the middle.   Makes sense and I get it.     I like the design in the sense that these can be used on smaller curves and appeal to more operators but in reality I whish they were designed with 072 minimum in mind.  I think for the majority of us that Would make life much much easier.  No complaints here though.  fun part of this hobby is making whats  available work and perform to your own preferences.  I wish everyone saw it that way.  This is a Good Thread.   Thanks to all the contributors. 

Laidoffsick posted

...  The problem is, with these cars, GGD cars, or any other long passenger car is you HAVE TO have a big gap between the cars, even for 072 curves because the outsides of the cars hit each in the curves. This cause them to bind up and derail. There just isn't a way to body mount Kadees, close the gap, AND keep he cars on the track. They have to have a decent gap.

...

Precisely... to avoid the gap between cars, you'd need EXTREMELY broad curve radii.  I'm thinking something in excess of O-120 and possibly even more than O-144.  If you want to run long passenger trains, the exaggerated gap -- especially noticeable around curves -- is a compromise we need to live with.  Just comes with the territory. 

I have O-102 curves on the outer mainline of my new layout, and my Atlas-O Zephyr cars look fine.  But even with that reasonably broad curve (by traditional O-Gauge standards), I just try not to focus on the gap between the cars.  But it's certainly there.

And by all means... if you have less than O-72 curves,  just pass on these 21" cars altogether and stick with 15" passenger cars. You'll be much happier that way.

David

Laidoffsick posted:

These cars run just fine like this:

The difference??? Rubber diaphragms vs full width hard diaphragms, and truck mounted 3 rail couplers. That is why i just painted the diaphragms and left the couplers alone.

Pay attenetion to what Doug shows here. I would add make sure the diaphram buffer plates are hard plastic to allow them to slip side to side. Rubber to rubber won't allow the sliding action.

These F units will negotiate 042.

Pete

I was informed this afternoon by Lionel Service that they will not be getting replacement body shells for passenger cars like they did in the first run.  The cars are out of their hands and at dealers.  There are no parts available like grab irons missing from my second replacement UP Excursion "Katy Flyer" Car.

If anyone would like to trade their perfect "Katy Flyer" passenger car for my car missing grab irons, please contact me.

I am not nuts, but I am checking to see if you are.  Want to trade?

This is the interior of my "Katy Flyer" UP Excursion 21" passenger Car.  The interior is waiting for a good body shell if I can ever find one.

The people are Preiser 65602 Unpainted Seated Figures that I painted.

John Rowlen posted:

I was informed this afternoon by Lionel Service that they will not be getting replacement body shells for passenger cars like they did in the first run.  The cars are out of their hands and at dealers.  There are no parts available like grab irons missing from my second replacement UP Excursion "Katy Flyer" Car.

Making grab irons isn't hard. How did you scratch up the grey paint?

Did you try to determine what exactly that is on the car or clean it off?  BTW, nice fingerprints on the window!

The first "Katy Flyer" 21" passenger car as pictured is exactly as it came out of the Lionel 4-pack box.  I have not changed its appearance at all.  (I wish I could remove the mark.)  The marks will not come off with soap and water.

The second "Katy Flyer" car from Legacy Station has missing grab irons on the side that was hidden by the white side of the packaging, and not exposed to view when it was sent to me. 

The first Amtrak Diner I received from Nicholas Smith had bowed end pieces and a gouge on the end of the roof. 

The second (replacement) from Nicholas Smith has the end Diaphragm Door Plate loosening as the coupler hits it as it rounds the O-72 curves.  (This might be why these plates are not on the Broadway Limited cars which is a good decision by Lionel's factory.)  (Nicholas Smith had to get another car from another Lionel dealer because the second Amtrak Dining car they had was not good either.)

My second Southern Pacific Observation arrived with a dangling truck and bent E-clip. (The first had broken window glass sticking out the rear window on the right side of the First Observation.)  The wiring is still screwed up and the Drum Head will not light.  I have not yet attempted to repair it because I was busy detailing the other cars.

My Union Pacific "Challenger" Dome Car arrived with a dangling truck and a loose E-clip inside. I was able to reattach the E-clip and I detailed the Dome with Preiser people that I painted. I will replace the silver Lionel E-clip with a tempered steel E-clip when I put Preiser People in the Lower Level.

I am waiting for the arrival of my Broadway Limited set and am encouraged by the good reviews so far. The Diaphragms without End Plates is a good idea.  The End plates can hit the couplers as the couplers pitch upward from pulling use over time.

Did you have a Lionel Warranty Card in your sets of new 21" passenger cars.  Did you have any Instructions?  Only my Station Sounds Dining Cars had Instruction Booklets.

I am not bashing Lionel as Dean in Service can tell you.  I have saved all email correspondence with Lionel for the 40 plus service trips on expensive Steam Engines, Modestly-priced Diesels, Sound Box Cars and Pennsylvania GLa Hopper Cars.  That does not include the many engines I have serviced myself after getting warranty parts from Lionel.  The more you buy, the more service issues you will have.  The only way to stop potential service issues is to stop buying.  (Pinched wires in large steam engines take time to soften the insulation and cause a short.  A casual testing at time of purchase will not reveal what time and heat will do.)

Absolutely maddening.  After waiting so long for close to accurate UP lightweight cars,  I love the look of the car details, domes, observation, roofs, etc.  So much potential, Then to have all those issues, and at those prices.  I have to stay away. Maybe I'll wait and see what leftover defective returns come up on the secondary market and pick up steeply discounted set as a project.  Then I won't be bitter about all the work I'd have to put into something I just bought.  What a shame.

WITZ 41 posted:

Absolutely maddening.  After waiting so long for close to accurate UP lightweight cars,  I love the look of the car details, domes, observation, roofs, etc.  So much potential, Then to have all those issues, and at those prices.  I have to stay away. Maybe I'll wait and see what leftover defective returns come up on the secondary market and pick up steeply discounted set as a project.  Then I won't be bitter about all the work I'd have to put into something I just bought.  What a shame.

All what issues?  Or are you just speaking about John Rowlens' issues with his cars?

jeremy ferrell posted:

Hancock52 posted:

jeremy ferrell posted:

Budkole posted:

No one mentioned they come with scale coupler mounting pads.  Ill bet the kadees will even tighten the gap even more.

Can someone post a picture of the factory truck coupler set up on these.   I’ve been modifying tricks and couplers a lot here lately this might be my next project 

I'm not sure that this will enlighten you much but this is the bottom view of the coupler assembly on one of the UP Excursion cars (the Overland diner):

It consists of a plate holding in position another plate to which the coupler is attached. This is a less complicated version of the kinematic coupler assembly on the Acela cars and I think that in fact the coupler has less much travel than it does in that assembly.  The spring that draws the coupler back when it is not extended into one of the two arms of the "Y" shaped channel is connected to the truck mounting post just behind the wheels shown in the photo.

I reckon that at full extension the coupler is no more than 5/16" further out than when it is in the default position. On these cars that do not have full width diaphragms that is probably more extension than is really needed, at least when running on O-72 track.  

This is helpful thank you.   I think my first move will be to see if any of the other kenimatic  applications could be possible replacements.  I think the 86ft box cars use something similar along with the new auto racks.  A long shot I’m sure but you gotta start somewhere.   I will also closely inspect the assembly once mine arrive to see if the couplers themselves could somehow be shortened.  I really think if all else fails the scale couplers will acomplish what I’m looking for.  But I will exhaust all options before going that route.  I think the problem with these is the full width diaphram cars almost need a different coupler than the standard diaphram version.  But thats probably asking for a lot.   The full width cars need more Tavel from what I’ve read. However that would have made These cars look all the worse.   It’s like they settled for the middle.   Makes sense and I get it.     I like the design in the sense that these can be used on smaller curves and appeal to more operators but in reality I whish they were designed with 072 minimum in mind.  I think for the majority of us that Would make life much much easier.  No complaints here though.  fun part of this hobby is making whats  available work and perform to your own preferences.  I wish everyone saw it that way.  This is a Good Thread.   Thanks to all the contributors. 

Well said!

jeremy ferrell posted:

Any chance of replacing the entire truck with the atlas adjustable trucks likes on their zephyr cars.    not the cheapest I'm sure but if you could make it work it'd give you adjustability.

Today I used your idea on the older aluminum mail car, it lowered it considerably and it now matches the rest of the excursion set.

Yes! Finally I have my cars! and my LHS was shorted 2 packs so I was very lucky to get the full set... finally after 4 years of waiting.... 

That is not a fingerprint on the small window.  The glass has a gloss in the center of it that does not wipe off.  The image you are seeing is a distortion in the window manufacturing.

Legacy Station has told me to take parts of the first "Katy Flyer" with the spots on it.  I will remove two Grab irons for the second body shell and probably replace this small window.

I hope that everybody else has no difficulties, but I have encountered these issues for the number of times reported.  Lionel knows there are issues, and that is why they say to "send the cars back to the dealer for a refund if there are problems".   They are not bringing them into Lionel Service for warranty work.  They have no parts.  There are no Call Tags for these cars.  Then what do we do if we have the FEF3. the GS4, six VL Big Boys, two Vision Line GG1s, two Pennsylvania M1a, a Turbine, a K4 and E8s waiting for these cars?  We buy another set --- and the process may or may not bring us what we expect.  I wish Lionel well, and I repair items when I am able.

Most of us who have been running trains for 50 plus years are able to make minor repairs.  I am puzzled by the recent trend by a couple of manufacturers of not getting repair/replacement parts.  I know they will pull parts off of cars that are returned from dealers.  If so, they must be expecting returns in order to do so.

"I got a refund on my dead puppy" is not a good sales strategy.  Lionel is better than this.  It has been the standard of excellence that we collectors count on to maintain the value of our investment in toy trains.  I will do whatever I can to see Lionel's success, and as testament of that have purchased over 200K in Lionel and Atlas O in the past two and a half years. 

I think I just heard a pop-off valve release.  No more steam.  Have a good weekend.

Sincerely,  John Rowlen

PS:   "And this too shall pass."   Hopefully on the opposite track.

When a customer like John Rowlens who supports their product to his degree speaks i would listen . I would prob send him a new Big boy just to make him happy.

Has anyone received the penn central 21” passenger cars And would like to send pictures. I would also like to hear what the quality control was like on then 2 and 4packs 

Mine look good so far. Will unbox and inspect soon. 

I lucked out on my set. No QC issues.  The cars where undamaged and worked flawlessly. 

The packaging was a bit archaic with the 4 pack having no backs to the boxes. 

But it's not about the boxes. 

The cars have nice window details and sit at a lower height than the previous release 

So where are the diaphragms for these cars?

The observation car is nice but needs a better interior. 

The flag car is very cool 

Love the theater light dimming in the cars.