Lionel NYC Dreyfus 6-28084 LEGACY Upgrade-video 8-23-20

I can't wait to see how this comes out Bruk!

Yes,I'm very interested in this one too!

Doug

I'll be following along closely as I have the same locomotive and a Legacy version would be really cool!

It could be a drop in conversion if the gear ratios of the Dreyfuss and the Legacy ESE are the same. Might not be given the Dreyfuss is Korean made with inch dimensions and the ESE is Chinese made with metric dimensions. The only thing it would affect though is Legacy speed matching.

Pete

I'm considering something that Jon Z. mentioned to me, trying to repurpose my Chuff-Generator to serve as a Legacy tach sensor.  The stock Legacy has 60 pulses/rev, if I modified the software to trigger on either edge of the stripes, I could get away with around 30 stripes on the flywheel for similar gear ratios.  To zero in on the exact gear ratio, I'd simply make a custom tach tape with the desired number of stripes to match the speed.

I have a vested interested in this project since this my Dreyfuss.  I have to say that Bruk did a fantastic job on my Lionel N & W Class A (6-28052) going from TMCC to Legacy (the hooter whistle from the Y6b is perfect for the Class A).  Witnessing what was possible with the Class A, I had to ask if he was up to converting my Dreyfuss and PRR T1.  This will be fun to follow.

-Brian

Norton posted:

It could be a drop in conversion if the gear ratios of the Dreyfuss and the Legacy ESE are the same. Might not be given the Dreyfuss is Korean made with inch dimensions and the ESE is Chinese made with metric dimensions. The only thing it would affect though is Legacy speed matching.

Pete

They do have the same gear ratio 16:1 on both locos.

Id say its almost a “drop in” but its not at the same time. The mounting points for boards and the smoke units between them do not match at all. 

I figured that but still not bad compared to the other engines you have done. I suspect the hardest part will be swapping out the tach reader.

Will be adding whistle steam too? If so that will be a challenge.

Pete

Actually, with the Pittman motor, it shouldn't be that hard, there is already a Legacy board and flywheel that should do the trick.  You may need a different dogbone shaft length.

Norton posted:

I figured that but still not bad compared to the other engines you have done. I suspect the hardest part will be swapping out the tach reader.

Will be adding whistle steam too? If so that will be a challenge.

Pete

Yes, whistle steam will be added. Two separate smoke units will be used. The DSMK will not fit in the shell. Custom made brass tubing for the funnel/exhaust might have to be made. Possibly 3d printed parts if it becomes extremely difficult.

The punch down list grows. I tip my hat to you Bruk. I am confident you will be able to pull this off.

Pete

What is going to be interesting besides all the work involved in making this engine something the world hasn't yet seen will be when the actual Legacy version of the Dreyfus comes out. I would dare to say that that will fall short to this project. Even if there are no bugs, no drips, no errors made on those, they will fall short. Of course, this is assuming that Lionel will make these at some point in the future. I know a few have speculated that they will make them, but would they be Legacy or VL was the point question asked. If they are to be VL, then every 2 years is what Ryan said VL locomotives are produced.

So, no matter what, this will be something unlike ever before. I may have to pick one of these up and get work done, lol. See what comes, eh?

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Actually, with the Pittman motor, it shouldn't be that hard, there is already a Legacy board and flywheel that should do the trick.  You may need a different dogbone shaft length.

John is spot on, installing the encoder board and new flywheel is not difficult.

Sometimes the new flywheel will offset to far forward of the motor causing the "dogbone" to bind or not fit between the flywheel and input shaft for the gear box. I can trim certain areas on the dog bone and couplings but most of the time the fitment is bad enough you would want to change out the dogbone.

BUT!  Instead of going through the trouble of trying to to figure out what size dogbone to replace it with a Lionel part, and fabricating one or even 3d printing one from scratch. I remove the coupling from the input shaft on the gear box side and trim the shaft down allowing more clearance for the dogbone to fit between the flywheel and gear box. (such as I do on the Class A conversions).

This is not a huge out of the way task during a conversion because I always strip the motor down to clean and lubricate it then I also strip the gear box down to remove old grease and apply fresh grease. so everything is already apart.

Another option is to remove the couplings and and use a U Joint like the Niagaras use. 9433 and 9434 Pittmans have a 4mm shaft diameter. 4 mm U joints are a couple of bucks on eBay. Worked on my Legacy Commodore Vanderbilt.

You can also easily change the length of a dog bone by cutting it in half and using a piece of brass tubing to hold the pieces together to what length you need.

Pete

Bruk, how are you able to get Legacy items on the after market?

romiller49 posted:

Bruk, how are you able to get Legacy items on the after market?

Lionel

Norton posted:

Another option is to remove the couplings and and use a U Joint like the Niagaras use. 9433 and 9434 Pittmans have a 4mm shaft diameter. 4 mm U joints are a couple of bucks on eBay. Worked on my Legacy Commodore Vanderbilt.

You can also easily change the length of a dog bone by cutting it in half and using a piece of brass tubing to hold the pieces together to what length you need.

Pete

I have thought about using those U-joints in other applications. Like moving the motor out of alignment with input shaft would be a great example. But past that I personally wouldn’t use it in this type of set up.  

I have used the Brass tubing before to extend or shorten dog bones. In many different models and scales. 

Bruk posted:

Norton posted:

Another option is to remove the couplings and and use a U Joint like the Niagaras use. 9433 and 9434 Pittmans have a 4mm shaft diameter. 4 mm U joints are a couple of bucks on eBay. Worked on my Legacy Commodore Vanderbilt.

You can also easily change the length of a dog bone by cutting it in half and using a piece of brass tubing to hold the pieces together to what length you need.

Pete

I have thought about using those U-joints in other applications. Like moving the motor out of alignment with input shaft would be a great example. But past that I personally wouldn’t use it in this type of set up.  

I have used the Brass tubing before to extend or shorten dog bones. In many different models and scales. 

That’s all I do Bruk, use brass tubing and telescope it to make a nice fit....pack the tube with 3M panel bonder and let her eat in 30 minutes....polish the tubing for a nice effect....😉.......Pat

Finally got my part order in and I’m going to jump right in!

Of course Ill start off removing all the old electronics. I’m going to keep the IR in place and re-use that later. I removed the motor from the frame and broke down the drive. When I was doing this I noticed that the coupler between the driveshaft/worm gear and dog bone was loose and slipping on the shaft. I pulled it off with ease by hand. As mentioned in the comments above this will not be big deal because I will have to shorten the shaft anyways to make the the dog bone fit properly with the new flywheel.

After taking the drive apart and removing the old grease, I disassembled the motor. I do this on every conversion I work on. I check the commutators and re-lube the wicking around the armature bushings. Then reassembled the motor.

I was going to use the “flywheel guard” but the stack up with the motor bracket and PCB was to much for the flywheel/encoder to properly fit on the output shaft. So I had to scrap that idea. After I sorted that out I figured out how much I needed to trim down the worm gear shaft to fit the dog bone into the coupling correctly. I only had to remove .100 of an inch which wasn’t a lot compared to other projects. Since its a soft steel I was able to cut it by hand then file it down fairly easily. I fitted the coupling then drilled a 1/16th hole through the shaft. I fitted a small brass tube through the hole with some superglue. We have all seen the similar issue and fix on the early EM-1s so I found this to be adequate.

After that I fitted the heat sink to the boiler bottom. I had to position it just right for the placement of the smoke units. I then laid out a hole using the old bracket and mounted it. I had to drill and tap a hole in the front of the boiler bottom and inserted a 2-56 screw to help hold the heat sink in place.

More to come. 

Great work!

Looking good Bruk.

I'm truly amazed by the talent/patience/knowledge here on OGR not only to undertake, but complete such amazing projects!!

Alrighty,

I got lucky with the fire box light, the bracket that came with happen to match up with the holes on the back of the pitman motor, I just flip it upside down and had to tap the holes for the screws.

Usually at this point I jump into the wiring but I have a lot to do before that....before I start the “easy” part and wire in everything, I had to figure out how to mount the smoke units where they can be removable, serviceable and well fixed. I mocked up the brackets out of thick paper. This makes it easier to mock up how the bracket will fit and modify it with ease. I started with the whistle steam smoke unit. It actually was very difficult to find a good place to mount it. I was going to mount it to a part of the lower boiler shell right underneath the smoke unit. I drilled and tapped the hole then realized if i did that I couldn’t access the mounting screws for the boiler shell bottom....so I came up with the bracket you see in the photos. I mounted it to the drive block cover. Found this to be the best spot.

The main smoke unit for the exhaust wasn’t to bad to figure out, I reused the same mounting location and created a Z bracket. I found the best way to position the smoke unit was “backwards”. This is not normally something you would see. Once I was done with that I drilled out the stack to fit the larger brass tubing from the smoke unit. I thought I did a pretty good job centering it with the exhaust stack hole. I made the hole larger than it needs to be because of fitment, being able to line up both the smoke unit and whistle steam will be a pain. I’m all about making projects functional and serviceable. I want it to be easy for the next guy and appreciate how easy it was to repair... if needed.

Bruk,That's coming along very nicely and I appreciate the level of detail you put in to make the engine serviceable afterwards. I also want to thank you for taking the time to post a thorough description of the mods and the pictures showing your progress.

It's posts like this that keeps me coming back to this forum!!

Doug

Why the large funnel for the whistle smoke? Does that just seal against the top of the boiler shell?

I like the fact that the smoke units are all on the chassis, that does ease the servicing when necessary, and we all know that smoke units need servicing!

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Why the large funnel for the whistle smoke? Does that just seal against the top of the boiler shell?

I like the fact that the smoke units are all on the chassis, that does ease the servicing when necessary, and we all know that smoke units need servicing!

I wondered about that oblong funnel too - as opposed to heat- and solvent-proof tubing and a couple of elbow joints. But maybe there isn’t space for the kind of contraption I’ve built to get smoke output at a little distance from the smoke unit. At the risk of creating a joke at my own expense, here’s an example:

All the tubing and joints come from US Plastics and are really intended for small fuel and lubricant lines.

Totally agree with GRJ about the chassis mounting of the smoke units.

Impressive craftsmanship as always Bruk! ... and made in the U.S.A. to boot!

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Why the large funnel for the whistle smoke? Does that just seal against the top of the boiler shell?

Sorry John I thought you mentioned the main smoke unit and missed the "Whistle Smoke" part reading the comment.....which is pretty obvious.... I removed that comment.

That funnel has a top plate with a spout that goes through the shell for the whistle steam. (You can kind see it in the 3rd photo to the right on the blue mat, its black) and to my surprise its a cast piece and not plastic. The part is used on the ESE Hudson.

I believe that the whistle detail part sits in that same hole. The whistle detail part has a hole in the middle of it to get your steam feature. You can probably see it if you look it up on the parts site. I had removed it because that spout will not end up in the same location where the whistle is and fitting the shell for testing.

I plan on getting a strip of brass and capping that large funnel, then locating where I want that spout to end up in the end.

Ill go into more detail when I get to that part soon.

Whistle Steam!!

So this is how I made the funnel for the whistle steam. As you know this is a big mod. This whats make a legacy controlled steam loco fun. I used the original smoke funnel that is used on the ESE engine. The only thing was that the spout on the top for the whistle steam doesn’t not line up with the whistle on the dreyfuss. Luckily this smoke funnel is actually casted and not plastic, so its pretty durable.

To start I remove the top. I laid it down on some brass stock then marked where the screw holes were. I drilled it up and then mounted it to the funnel. I trimmed up the overhang and filed the corners.

Once I got that cleaned up I moved on to removing the whistle detail parts. It was incased epoxy so I had to take a Dremel to free it. I removed the detail part and chiseled off the rest with a screw driver.  I removed the whistle and then marked where I think it will work best. I drilled a 1/8 hole which is what I typically do to add whistle steam. But I need to fill the smoke unit from the whistle so I had to step it up to a 5/32 hole to fit a larger tube. This will give me enough room to fit a smoke fluid funnel.

After that I located where to drill a hole into the brass funnel top. Then took it apart and drilled a small hole to help me locate the brass tube for the spout. I cut a piece of 5/32 tubing then located it and soldered into position. I drilled out the remaining material and reinstalled the cover. Did a test fit and its perfect! Ill seal the top cover plate to the funnel after I have it wired and after initial testing.

That is a really ingenious and well executed adaptation. Speaking as somebody with NO metalworking skills (not offered in my shop classes in high school!) I really take my hat off to you.

Nice detailed presentation of the whistle steam build.  Makes me keep looking for Legacy stuff with whistle steam, looks like a lot of work!

This tremendous, Burk. Terrific craftsmanship and a fun read. I’m one of what I think are many who would love a Legacy Dreyfus. I’m glad there will be at least one out there!  Thanks for the thread. 

Absolutely superb craftsmanship 

Alex

This is amazing...!!  I’m so envious of the talent and craftsmanship displayed here. (Although I truly applaud and marvel at it)  I love how you’ve been able to build this out of thin air...  I can’t WAIT to see it in action.  I’ve been waiting for this set to be produced by Lionel for the better part of 15 yrs now and am excited to see some people taking the bull by the horns and getting it done for themselves.  Congrats on an amazing upgrade!

Bruk,

I echo all of the previous complements above.  Amazing!  

-Brian

Thanks for all the great comments, I appreciate it. I take a lot of pride in my work and I hope it shows. 

I want to thank Brain for giving me the chance to do this project. Its making me use all my skills on this project. I really have to think about what im going to do every step. Ive learned a lot of new technics so far that ill use in future projects. 

Heres a little teaser.

(There isn’t any sound to listen too expect a tv in the background and smoke fan motors.)

That looks pretty sweet!

Valpac posted:

That looks pretty sweet!

I think so! Whistle steam looks pretty sweet. Lots more to do still! 

Wow, Bruk, that looks great! Your whistle smoke is better than almost all of the Legacy steamers I have except the VL Niagara. 

I can’t work out from the previous text/photos what smoke unit you have used for the whistle function but I imagine it’s a recent Legacy part? I also imagine that it has to maintain some heat in the unit to be ready for the feature to be activated but I have no clue as to how the Legacy boards manage that - especially in smoke units with plastic components.

Fine work Bruk. What are you doing about wiring harnesses, making your own or using Lionel's? To me, making my own is the most tedious, least interesting part.

I don't know how Lionel manages whistle steam but believe Dave said for the  water overflow unit on the Niagara tender it gets a few seconds of higher voltage to heat up the resistor quickly then down to normal voltage. 

Pete

Hancock52 posted:

Wow, Bruk, that looks great! Your whistle smoke is better than almost all of the Legacy steamers I have except the VL Niagara. 

I can’t work out from the previous text/photos what smoke unit you have used for the whistle function but I imagine it’s a recent Legacy part? I also imagine that it has to maintain some heat in the unit to be ready for the feature to be activated but I have no clue as to how the Legacy boards manage that - especially in smoke units with plastic components.

Thanks, I think so too. 

The smoke units are the same used in the latest ESE Hudson. The RCMC board manages the heat and fans with help from a thermisister. 

Norton posted:

Fine work Bruk. What are you doing about wiring harnesses, making your own or using Lionel's? To me, making my own is the most tedious, least interesting part.

I don't know how Lionel manages whistle steam but believe Dave said for the  water overflow unit on the Niagara tender it gets a few seconds of higher voltage to heat up the resistor quickly then down to normal voltage. 

Pete

The harness has to be made from scratch, all wires have to be measures, cut, hand crimped and assembled. Lionel doesn’t offer any parts for harnesses. Thats why the labor charge is higher than a PS3 upgrade. It takes me hours to assemble it. I have to do it with both engine and tender. It does suck but its part of it. You can buy pre-crimped connectors and solder them together but I hate the look of heat shrink everywhere. I like a clean wire from plug to plug. Factory like install, I take pride in.

Ive noticed with RCMC on initial power up and start up of the loco with the smoke units on, they super heat. They wont super heat if you shut the loco down and restart it you have to cycle the power first. 

That whistle is like a smoke stack, looks good!

Question: What tool do you use to crimp the 1.5mm connectors?  I have more trouble with those than the 2mm and 2.5mm ones.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

That whistle is like a smoke stack, looks good!

Question: What tool do you use to crimp the 1.5mm connectors?  I have more trouble with those than the 2mm and 2.5mm ones.

Engineers PA-09,

(Tip***) - I noticed when you crimp the 1.5 in the 1.4 area they are squeezed to flat and will not slide into the connector. So I found when crimping the 1.25 and 1.5 in the 1.0 area they are perfect. Its a pain in the butt at first you have to be extra delicate, because the 1.5 will kinda wedge its self into the 1.0 for obvious reasons, and you have to wiggle it out without bending the terminal.

I make my own 2 and 2.5 mm harnesses but save a bit of time and headache by getting the premade 1.5 mm connectors. Its easy enough to extract the pins from the housings to use in other housings with more or less pins. Saves at least half of the crimping hassle.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/10-Se...0:g:G3QAAOSw~rpZVjHA

I was also in the right place at the right time when S&W was selling off their Lionel Harnesses. The piles included all sizes including 1.5mm. Enough to fill a 3 lb coffee can was only $7.50.

Pete

I have a pile of 1.5mm Lionel connectors as well, mine were a gift from the late Marty Fitzhenry a couple years ago.  I use them when I can, and it does save having to crimp them.  The 2.0mm and 2.5mm connectors are easy and quick to make, so I don't worry about those.

Bruk posted:

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Question: What tool do you use to crimp the 1.5mm connectors?

Engineers PA-09,

(Tip***) - I noticed when you crimp the 1.5 in the 1.4 area they are squeezed to flat and will not slide into the connector. So I found when crimping the 1.25 and 1.5 in the 1.0 area they are perfect. Its a pain in the butt at first you have to be extra delicate, because the 1.5 will kinda wedge its self into the 1.0 for obvious reasons, and you have to wiggle it out without bending the terminal.

I have the IWIS crimpers with the 1.3 size crimp, I may try those.

Bruk

OUTSTANDING work on that whistle steam, I’m really enjoying this thread. Thanks for sharing 

Alex 

WOW! To quote Graham Chapman from Monty Python & The Holy Grail, "That rabbit is dynamite!" What a truly excellent rebuild rework this is. When this is finished, it is going to be over the moon crazy.

Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

WOW! To quote Graham Chapman from Monty Python & The Holy Grail, "That rabbit is dynamite!" What a truly excellent rebuild rework this is. When this is finished, it is going to be over the moon crazy.

Thanks!

This has been a headache of a project but exciting at the same time. I got to install the lights, rework and fine tune some things then start some testing to make sure its going to continue to function after I send it back to Brian. 

I know what you mean Bruk. Some projects that we take on bring us tons of grief. My late Uncle Eddie would often say such things(with several swears in between) but all the effort would be 100 fold worth it. Sometimes you really get a challenge, but it is all golden after.

Bruk posted:

Norton posted:

Fine work Bruk. What are you doing about wiring harnesses, making your own or using Lionel's? To me, making my own is the most tedious, least interesting part.

I don't know how Lionel manages whistle steam but believe Dave said for the  water overflow unit on the Niagara tender it gets a few seconds of higher voltage to heat up the resistor quickly then down to normal voltage. 

Pete

The harness has to be made from scratch, all wires have to be measures, cut, hand crimped and assembled. Lionel doesn’t offer any parts for harnesses. Thats why the labor charge is higher than a PS3 upgrade. It takes me hours to assemble it. I have to do it with both engine and tender. It does suck but its part of it. You can buy pre-crimped connectors and solder them together but I hate the look of heat shrink everywhere. I like a clean wire from plug to plug. Factory like install, I take pride in.

Ive noticed with RCMC on initial power up and start up of the loco with the smoke units on, they super heat. They wont super heat if you shut the loco down and restart it you have to cycle the power first. 

I had to reharness a Genset that burned up most of it's smoke unit harnesses. The original harnesses are not often listed with the engine. I found that hundreds of Lionel harnesses could be found in parts by seaching for "harness". I looked at many many of them with the pictures that Lionel provides and found a half dozen that I could remove the crimped wires from and reinsert them in the proper connector shells...and almost perfectly replaced the original harnesses with the correct colors as well. That seemed easier than crimping up a new set (although I have the tools) and it was more fun and interesting as well.

cjack posted:

Bruk posted:

Norton posted:

Fine work Bruk. What are you doing about wiring harnesses, making your own or using Lionel's? To me, making my own is the most tedious, least interesting part.

I don't know how Lionel manages whistle steam but believe Dave said for the  water overflow unit on the Niagara tender it gets a few seconds of higher voltage to heat up the resistor quickly then down to normal voltage. 

Pete

The harness has to be made from scratch, all wires have to be measures, cut, hand crimped and assembled. Lionel doesn’t offer any parts for harnesses. Thats why the labor charge is higher than a PS3 upgrade. It takes me hours to assemble it. I have to do it with both engine and tender. It does suck but its part of it. You can buy pre-crimped connectors and solder them together but I hate the look of heat shrink everywhere. I like a clean wire from plug to plug. Factory like install, I take pride in.

Ive noticed with RCMC on initial power up and start up of the loco with the smoke units on, they super heat. They wont super heat if you shut the loco down and restart it you have to cycle the power first. 

I had to reharness a Genset that burned up most of it's smoke unit harnesses. The original harnesses are not often listed with the engine. I found that hundreds of Lionel harnesses could be found in parts by seaching for "harness". I looked at many many of them with the pictures that Lionel provides and found a half dozen that I could remove the crimped wires from and reinsert them in the proper connector shells...and almost perfectly replaced the original harnesses with the correct colors as well. That seemed easier than crimping up a new set (although I have the tools) and it was more fun and interesting as well.

In the early days of me wanting to install these boards as a custom thing, I had looked into Lionel and done that same thing you described. I found that you may get lucky finding some harnesses, but when it comes to a very custom install kinda like in the Class A or the Brass engine I also did, you got to make the harness. You'll end up tearing down the entire harness down and just using the connectors in the end i found out. So yes when you have the tools its not as bad. Its easier in the end just more tedious to do. If it was plug and play more people would do this.

Little update,

Ive been working on the lighting on the loco. Its fairly basic with the single headlight, cab light and work lights. My biggest struggle is getting the work lights over the drivers to look right. On the ESE they used a PCB board with 0603 SMD LEDs that slide in the housings for the work lights and shine down over the drivers. I wanted to reuse the original bulbs because it looked really good. But personally mixing incandescent and LEDs together on the same project look like poop. I thought about using the 3mm flange less LEDs that I used on the headlight and back up light, then slide them in place of the bulbs. This was easy but the actual light that shines down was poor and I did not like it.

So I decided to create what you see in the pictures. I made it from styrene. I used 0603 warm white LEDs. Hand solder the #32 magnet wire to the back side of them. Then glued it to the tips of the skeleton structure. Wired it all up separately from LH to RH. Since its styrene, its flexible and pops in position. Then I realized that I messed it up. I forgot that a smoke unit bracket goes right there...... now I got to modify it.....ugh. Trial and error.

I dunno if this is how ill end up doing the work lights, I wanted everything to be serviceable. Doing it this way does not fall into that very much since its a custom part with glued LEDs to it. 

There's some consolation for me in knowing that an expert can run into the same issue I have, which is building components that belatedly have to be modified from their completed state because some other other - usually stock/original part - has to be allowed for. In my case it usually happens out of impatience to finish something but you can't really plan everything in advance when so many features are being added. It's an article of faith for me that scratch built parts can't replicate machine-made accuracy or that which comes from having a whole model built to a computer generated blueprint.

Anyway I understand why you did not want to mix incandescent and LED lighting. At least the latter are unlikely to need servicing for the life of the model.

Bruk, I faced the same issue with a Dreyfuss, and I ended up change the bulbs out to be compatible with my circuit and using the original fixtures.  For other project where there is a place I can stick a small board, I make these. 

Obviously, I cut them apart before installing them.  I solder all the LED's on with them in a strip, then I cut them apart and glue them under the running boards.  I wire them with #30 black wire-wrap wire, it works well and any holes I have to drill are really small.

If I may make a suggestion Burk...Run a piece of styrene from the center LED support to the rear LED support along the outside. Then you can remove the center section and then mount the smoke unit bracket.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Bruk, I faced the same issue with a Dreyfuss, and I ended up change the bulbs out to be compatible with my circuit and using the original fixtures.  For other project where there is a place I can stick a small board, I make these. 

This what I have available to me. They are (between the two pads) are as big as 3528 LEDs. Similar to yours. I thought about using the styrene structure with these for an easier change if the LED fails.  Ill have trim it up of course. 

Jayhawk500 posted:

If I may make a suggestion Burk...Run a piece of styrene from the center LED support to the rear LED support along the outside. Then you can remove the center section and then mount the smoke unit bracket.

If I continue with this design. I will do this. I have already prepped the pieces for a mod. I’m just not excited about remaking those LEDs up. They can be a pain to solder up. 

I went with one-sided on my ground lights for a good reason.  I didn't want the wires to come through and short to the shell!

gunrunnerjohn posted:

I went with one-sided on my ground lights for a good reason.  I didn't want the wires to come through and short to the shell!

Of course! With these. If I end up attaching them straight to the shell, I drill out the through hole trace just enough on the back side with a small drill bit.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Bruk, I faced the same issue with a Dreyfuss, and I ended up change the bulbs out to be compatible with my circuit and using the original fixtures.  For other project where there is a place I can stick a small board, I make these. 

Obviously, I cut them apart before installing them.  I solder all the LED's on with them in a strip, then I cut them apart and glue them under the running boards.  I wire them with #30 black wire-wrap wire, it works well and any holes I have to drill are really small.

Gunrunnerjohn recently did a smoke, chuff and lighting upgrade on my new Lionel Dreyfuss. I didn’t upgrade to ERR (that’s another story). The work lights he installed look fantastic. 

This upgrade to Legacy with whistle steam will be sweet  

Mike

ezmike posted:

Gunrunnerjohn recently did a smoke, chuff and lighting upgrade on my new Lionel Dreyfuss. I didn’t upgrade to ERR (that’s another story). The work lights he installed look fantastic. 

Yep, that's the one I stayed with the incandescent lighting, I looked at putting the LED's in, but not any good places to mount them.  Since the light fixtures were already there, I just rewired them all for the new bulbs.

Tender:

So I have had the tender done for a couple days now, I use a MTH trim pot for volume control. They are my go too where if an installation does not have one already. Anyways I thought I had a couple and I guess I didn’t. I had to run to Eastside Trains earlier this week and get a couple so finally finished that up.

Installation is pretty straight forward; striped it down, marked the best spot for the boards, drilled and taped the holes. I sealed the speaker risers and speakers to the frame. I trimmed and hooked up the power wires to the boards. I noticed after fitting the RS board in the holder that the IR connector was missing....to most this is a complaint to lionel. But I have junkers laying around and just swapped it out. No big deal. I then made up a new IR harness and installed it. I made connectors for the coupler, speakers,battery and connections between the the LTC board and RS board.

The back up light I had to make a holder for the LED. I used the original bracket with a small tube to hold it. I use the MTH 3mm LEDs that are supplied in the PS3 diesel kits. Which is a standard in PS3 locos, its a nice warm white color and simple to replace if needed.

Later on I got the trim pot installed. Then zipped tied some of the wire up and slapped the shell back on. I just got to finish the loco now.

Nice professional job.  I hesitate to ask, but how many hours is the complete upgrade going take take?  To say this is a time consuming and detailed operation wouldn't be overstating the case I suspect!

Amazing, just amazing. This will be one heck of a performing piece of art when finished.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Nice professional job.  I hesitate to ask, but how many hours is the complete upgrade going take take?  To say this is a time consuming and detailed operation wouldn't be overstating the case I suspect!

Welllll, the more I do. The faster it get. With the electronics its almost the same install every time. To be honest. I usually spend a lot of time through out my day(s) at my actual job (day dreaming), thinking about how to approach a project and doing parts research before I even place a part order. I take pictures of what I have to work with as well. I usually have about 4-5 hours (with distractions) at most after work to be able to work on projects. Some days no time such as Life.  So it seems like a long time. 😁

(I had the tender done the same day I posted that teaser video.)

SO! The Class A I did at first took me 24-26 hours. Finding the best ways to do the job. Taking my time. I know I could do it faster but I want a good base method at first. When I did Brians Class A. It took me just about 12 hours from start to finish. And thats me with tools in my hands. I’m sure if I get a 3rd to work it will be less.

This project kinda caught me off guard. Wasnt even thinking of doing one of these. I mentioned to Brian that it might be to difficult to even add whistle steam. But I got it.  I looked at a ESE we had at Eastside before I got his engine. Just to get good base idea of how Lionel did it. I knew it be very similar to idea with the Dreyfus. 

If I did another one of these, I know what id need to do first and last, this would cut down the turn around time to 12 hours if not less. 

12 hours (or a full working day and a bit more) is/would be amazingly efficient, at least by my inept standards.

That Rail-/Signal-sounds switch in your 7th photo looks totally marooned now!

Hancock52 posted:

That Rail-/Signal-sounds switch in your 7th photo looks totally marooned now!

Agreed, no need for that anymore. 

Final Assembly!

I was pretty much done with the loco a few days ago. I just had to add the ground/work lights. I came up with a cleaner method. Next time I’m going to see if I can’t 3d print those parts for the lights. They came out great in the end. A much cleaner install than before I think. You’ll notice that I made some supports to keep the wire away from the flywheel. I even soldered some small brass wire to hold it and even a zip tie.

I also made a little extra support for the smoke unit to the heat sink. For the encoder I had to move the capacitor down to the side to get it out of the way of the smoke funnel. I added some heat shrink just in case. You’ll also notice that I added a larger brass tube to help fill up that space between the shell and smoke funnel. 

Its pretty cramped in there. But looks like a factory install to me! A video to follow soon.

Very nice!

Magnificent job Bruk, I think I'll send all my upgrades out to you!

Those turned out fantastic! nice job! Wish I could do this mod to my LTI Chessie Steam Special. But I dont think I have the room.

How big is the RCMC board Burk?

Chris

Jayhawk500 posted:

How big is the RCMC board Burk?

Chris

Ill get back to you. 

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Magnificent job Bruk, I think I'll send all my upgrades out to you!

Thank you!

I’m always up for anyone interested in my services. But ill be honest, if the project is worth it or not.

I’m a email away. 

Jayhawk500 posted:

How big is the RCMC board Burk?

Looks like 1 1/4" wide, 3 3/4" long, and 1" tall at the highest point.  That also leaves room for the connectors.

Bruk posted:

Final Assembly!

. . . . Its pretty cramped in there. But looks like a factory install to me! A video to follow soon.

Do yourself justice (or I will); that looks better than the vast majority of factory installs I've looked at lately.

As for my own installs, well . . . I can still aspire to factory level!

Hancock52 posted:

Bruk posted:

Final Assembly!

. . . . Its pretty cramped in there. But looks like a factory install to me! A video to follow soon.

Do yourself justice (or I will); that looks better than the vast majority of factory installs I've looked at lately.

As for my own installs, well . . . I can still aspire to factory level!

I appreciate it!

As promised,....enjoy 😀

Awesome work.  I want one. 

The videos are great, thanks and well done again.

One last self-ed question from me. Not sure, despite re-reading this thread, which RCMC board you used in this project (and in combination with what sound board) but I assume it came pre-programmed for the whistle smoke function? Not that I could ever attempt a project like yours but I had a look at what I think is your last (2019) RCMC and related board diagrams. There appears to be one version of the RCMC designed for steam equipped with tether and thermistors installed in the main and auxiliary smoke units. Is that the one used in this project? 

Either way, I can see what a bear assembling wire harnesses would be; way above my pay and skill grades. 

Looks as good as I thought it would, what a fantastic job!

Amazing results Bruk.  What’s more amazing was the journey you took us on to get from there to here.  Dare I say, worthy of an article in one of our magazines.

Cheers to you!

-Brian

Ugh..... but that diesel in the consist .   You need to buy up all of the old TMCC steamers and upgrade them Bruk. They are well built solid runners worthy of some extra realism.

Great job. This has been an interesting thread to help pass the time during the "stay at home order". When do you start the next project?

Hancock52 posted:

Which RCMC board you used in this project (and in combination with what sound board) but I assume it came pre-programmed for the whistle smoke function? Not that I could ever attempt a project like yours but I had a look at what I think is your last (2019) RCMC and related board diagrams. There appears to be one version of the RCMC designed for steam equipped with tether and thermistors installed in the main and auxiliary smoke units.

Yes you are correct, it is the version with thermistors. The boards come pre-flashed so they have to be selected carefully. I ended up using the same boards from the ESE Hudson. Both RCMC and Railsound Lite.  

I wish I could program this stuff at home....

RickO posted:

Ugh..... but that diesel in the consist .   You need to buy up all of the old TMCC steamers and upgrade them Bruk. They are well built solid runners worthy of some extra realism.

Great job. This has been an interesting thread to help pass the time during the "stay at home order". When do you start the next project?

Thanks! Haha maybe sooner than later. T1 duplex is next.

And yes the diesel was what was on the layout. That was the Display layout at Eastside Trains we test projects/repairs on it.  I stop by a couple days out of the week after my real job to help them out. They were the only set of cars available to me.

I was tempted to take down the MTH Dreyfus set on the wall and throw the cars on there instead. But i was lazy. I sadly don’t have layout and only that test track on my desk  

Valpac posted:

Amazing results Bruk.  What’s more amazing was the journey you took us on to get from there to here.  Dare I say, worthy of an article in one of our magazines.

Cheers to you!

-Brian

Thank you Brain! 

An article would be pretty cool!

Thank you for the opportunity to do this conversion on your Dreyfus. It was a pleasure and learning curve as usual.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Jayhawk500 posted:

How big is the RCMC board Burk?

Looks like 1 1/4" wide, 3 3/4" long, and 1" tall at the highest point.  That also leaves room for the connectors.

Thanks John! Very  kind of you.

After seeing this, I wish I could do this as well. My only problem is the tach drive on the motor. I don't have the room for the flywheel.Oh well, such is life.

Burk,

Sorry to ask this question, but my brain is in overload. What are the P/Ns for the Pittman tach sensor and the flywheel? And anything else I may need for that as well.

Thanks

Never mind, dumby me, You had the model number in the title.

Jayhawk500 posted:

Burk,

Sorry to ask this question, but my brain is in overload. What are the P/Ns for the Pittman tach sensor and the flywheel? And anything else I may need for that as well.

Thanks

Never mind, dumby me, You had the model number in the title.

Look at the parts list for a Empire State Express (ESE) with Legacy.

I'm a little late to the videos, great job Bruk. I did catch one on YouTube, and was going to pop back here, but have been busy. Excellent!

Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

I'm a little late to the videos, great job Bruk. I did catch one on YouTube, and was going to pop back here, but have been busy. Excellent!

Thank you! 

Wrapping it up! 

I have sent the loco back home to Brian, it completed all my tests to make sure it will continue to work once he gets it. 

I made two professional looking instruction about filling the smoke unit and the switch locations, and of course what extremely custom upgrade isn’t complete without a certificate of authenticity. 

Very cool Bruk, and a very nice job on the upgrade!

I have sent you an email about this engine and upgrading it to legacy. I have the same one and Im looking for a legacy upgrade. Please check your email thanks. 

Bruk posted:

Wrapping it up! 

I have sent the loco back home to Brian, it completed all my tests to make sure it will continue to work once he gets it. 

I made two professional looking instruction about filling the smoke unit and the switch locations, and of course what extremely custom upgrade isn’t complete without a certificate of authenticity. 

 

Now that is cool. Tells a complete story about how this ain't the old thing anymore. Real cool Bruk.

Terrific Bruk - AM very much looking forward to the T1 project!

Here is another Lionel Dreyfus! Given another one new life! #2