Lionel Post War Quality

Dan:

I had the same feeling a month or two back when I had my 264 saw mill opened up to make an adjustment.  

There was a heck of a lot of ingenuity and craftsmanship went into the design and manufacture of postwar trains and accessories.

Curt

Personally, I think Lionel engineering and quality  is under estimated and appreciated today. Most people just look at it as "old".

I would also say that Lionel today is also making some high quality products.  Yes, there are electronic issues but the basic mechanical parts are well built.  We are back to all metal gears, Pittman motors, etc.  The new ZW-L is a work of art and one heck of a beast.

As for Post War and even PreWar stuff, its pretty much bullet proof.  Unless you wear out the gears and axles, these will outlast all of us.  I have my dad's original Lionel freight set from 1938 and his first American Flyer O gauge outfit.  Both still run like a swiss watch and see yearly service during the holidays.

jim pastorius posted:

Personally, I think Lionel engineering and quality  is under estimated and appreciated today. Most people just look at it as "old".

Your comment reminded me of an Ebay posting I saw last night for a vintage 164 log loader.  Yea, the one from the late '80s.....LOL  So I guess that makes post-war stuff ancient and pre-war Prehistoric....HA HA HA

It is crazy to think that these were designed and made to be just "toys" --- or were they ???

And here we are --- a lifetime latter still enjoying them

Not just trains but most products in the early postwar period were built to last. I think of my Dad's metal Craftsmen tools or our washing machine that lasted over twenty year with four kids. There was no planned obsolesence and people took pride in what they made.

All the best,

Miketg

Heck, I'm still running my family trains from the 1950's, hunting around for my great grandad's from the late 1940's, and have some of my own from the 1930's. I love them. Sold all my can motor stuff.

Maybe someone has done this already , but wouldn't it be great to see a side by side comparison of all of the post war accessories and their modern counter parts . I would like to know which one operates smoother , which is quieter  ,etc.  Which ones will still be operating 65 years from now ?

Jim

It would be hard to get a true side by side comparison because of  improvements(??)  in materials and manufacturing.  Don't underestimate older things though.

As a Marx fan, I am amazed at the quality that was built into their postwar products too. Even though they were "cheap" compared to Lionel they were still built well.

But like it was said before, that's how people built things back then.

Summerdale Junction posted:

Maybe someone has done this already , but wouldn't it be great to see a side by side comparison of all of the post war accessories and their modern counter parts . I would like to know which one operates smoother , which is quieter  ,etc.  Which ones will still be operating 65 years from now ?

LCCA members have been treated to just such studies, with disassembly photos, in dozens of articles over many years in the 6x/yr The Lion Roars  publication. Become a member and catch up!

Built to last  in America by Americans who took pride in their workmanship and the product they put out.

ADCX Rob posted:

Summerdale Junction posted:

Maybe someone has done this already , but wouldn't it be great to see a side by side comparison of all of the post war accessories and their modern counter parts . I would like to know which one operates smoother , which is quieter  ,etc.  Which ones will still be operating 65 years from now ?

LCCA members have been treated to just such studies, with disassembly photos, in dozens of articles over many years in the 6x/yr The Lion Roars  publication. Become a member and catch up!

Thanks for pointing that out Rob . I was thinking along the lines of a master print-out with all of the accessories . I stopped saving my LION ROARS  a few years ago after I filled one filing cabinet  . I guess that you didn't notice my signature . Jim

Considering the technology and materials available in the 30s, 40s, 50s and 60s, these "toys" are a marvel to me.  Having worked in manufacturing design for 40+ years I have seen a huge change in product development methods.  Today we have various computer tools, CAD design, 3-D printing, and simulation tools that eliminate a lot of error and the need for prototypes.   I can't imagine what kind of model shop and tooling shop Lionel and Gilbert used to design and build their prototype products to evaluate and test.  And they made the most out of every innovation they had.  The vibrator motor was used in countless accessories and operating cars.  I was shocked at how nice the chuffing tender was on a 325A American Flyer Steam Engine I recently acquired. 

Back in the day, electricity was still a bit of a mystery.  Being able to control a train remotely with a xfmr handle, make it whistle or dump coal at the push of a button was sort of magical.  Today wireless technology, internet, and portable phone communication makes that look cumbersome and tired.

However, once you have been properly trained, there is still no substitute for the smell of ozone, smoke pellets and that wail of a mechanical air whistle.

Old John Browning designed some of the finest firearms ever, still in good use today, and his computer was between his ears. Plus, no CAD, he carved his prototypes out of wood.  Today we have the F-35 fighter project.

During the war (WW2) Lionel built stuff for the war effort. This was and had to be top notch, lives depended on it. After the war, the same engineers transferred this energy for excellence to the train product line and it show. I have a 1949 Berkshire (736) that my Dad got me when I was 2 and it still runs great. Too bad we lost that engineering excellence for profits.

What I've discovered about one Lionel postwar steam engine lineage, is that as time progressed quality went down.

My first postwar engine was an early 675. After performing proper maintenance, the engine ran/runs very well. I likened it to a Swiss watch. I then purchased three early 2025s, with the same results. My next find was a pre-war 225. It ran/runs even smoother than the early 2025/675's. Moving along, the 2035/late 2025 engines didn't/don't run near as smooth as their predecessors, and then the loco was discontinued and replaced with the 2055, which was easier to assemble, and even with proper maintenance, have a "coffee grinder" sound, and some somewhat jerky running characteristics. Some run smoother than others, but after this much time and questionable history, they don't perform as well as early 675/2025's.

The quality is still there, just not what it was earlier. 

Dan,  You are so right,  the Lionel 022 switches are so well designed and beautiful.  I have about 12 mint pairs for a new garage layout.  At 48" high I can picture the glow of all those lanterns. 

aussteve,  I recently purchased an AF New York, New Haven & Hartford Pacific engine.  I can hear the sound of their puffing smoke in my head.  The last time I saw an AF Atlantic engine chugging and puffing smoke was about 70 years ago at Christmas in a department store.  Can't wait to build my new layout with all those switches.

brr posted:

What I've discovered about one Lionel postwar steam engine lineage, is that as time progressed quality went down.

My first postwar engine was an early 675. After performing proper maintenance, the engine ran/runs very well. I likened it to a Swiss watch. I then purchased three early 2025s, with the same results. My next find was a pre-war 225. It ran/runs even smoother than the early 2025/675's. Moving along, the 2035/late 2025 engines didn't/don't run near as smooth as their predecessors, and then the loco was discontinued and replaced with the 2055, which was easier to assemble, and even with proper maintenance, have a "coffee grinder" sound, and some somewhat jerky running characteristics. Some run smoother than others, but after this much time and questionable history, they don't perform as well as early 675/2025's.

 

The quality is still there, just not what it was earlier. 

 

 

 

Many years ago, I had a couple of late forties locomotives.  A 675, a single motor GG1 and an early turbine.  They all had Nickel, I believe, rims on the drive wheels.  The first thing I noticed was how quietly they ran compared to my mane-traction equipped locomotives.