LIONEL POWERHOUSE 180 VS. MTH Z-1000

Aside from the extra 4 amps of power that the PH180 offers, it also provides fantastic circuit protection with fold-back power regulation. (edit: I must have been thinking of something else.  As GGG pointed out there is not fold-back on the PH180.  The breakers are described as being very good, however.  Going to have to dig around to see what I was thinking of with the fold-back.)  I (still) believe these are the best power sources money can buy as far as a constant voltage source goes.  I am unaware of any problems or negatives about these, or have not seen any mention of problems that I remember. I'm sure there have been issues and expect other to comment on such problems.

The z1000, on the other hand is a simple transformer with a 6 amp circuit breaker.  it is just fine for what it is, but is not any better than using a post-war transformer with a fast-acting circuit breaker.  The z1000 brick also has one minor design flaw, in that a connection between the 18VAC hot and the 14VAC accessory hot  makes an unfused short through the transformer.  It is unlikely to be a problem for most folks, but it is a problem if your accessory wiring gets crossed with the track wiring somewhere. 

If cost is a consideration, you're best bet may be to use post-war KW's or ZW's in poor cosmetic shape, add a quality circuit breaker, and save some dough.  If cost isn't an issue the PH180's are awesome, and for the very high dollar, the new ZW-L offers all the fancy bells and whistles... and is actually a pretty fair price if you need all the power it delivers.  

JGL

The Lionel brick does not have fold back circuitry as far as I know of.   I would go with the 180W PH.  More watts and better electronic breaker in my opinion.  G

While the PH180 doesn't have fold-back circuitry, IMO it's the best circuit protection of any of the bricks by far.  It's electronically triggered breaker is far faster than the Z1000, it's not even a close race.  I've seen the Z1000 breaker take out the 20A fuse in the TIU with a direct short on the tracks several times, never lost a fuse with the PH-180. 

JGL, perhaps you were thinking of the 180's dual current sensing circuit.  It has both a slow circuit to sense continuous overloads and a fast circuit to sense quick current spikes, such as a derailment.

Stirling,

    Actually neither, if you are running DCS & Legacy on a fair sized layout.  IMO it's better to power your layout with an old ZW or KW than either the 180 Brick or the small Z-1000. If you only have a very small layout, you might consider the Z-1000, however sooner or later, if you have the room, you are going to expand into at least a mid sized layout.  IMO save your money and invest in a good Z4K, it opens up lots of different running options.  If you have a little money, invest in an upgraded ZW with the 4 Channels, then save your money for the Z4K.  You can pick up an upgraded ZW from Jim Lawson right here on the OGR, I have several of his upgraded Transformers, they work better than brand spanking new. 

JGL,

   I disagree about the cost of the new ZW-L, it is over priced and until I can pick one up at a decent price, I will not own one.  Lots more cost effective ways to run your layout! The new ZW-L is definitely a luxury item at this point and time.

PCRR/Dave

Dave, we'll have to agree to disagree on the PW transformers over the PowerHouse 180 for command layouts.  The PH-180 delivers a true 180 watts, you will get perhaps 200-210 watts from your PW-ZW, and you'll have to add proper circuit protection to it.  Even after you add modern breakers, the PH-180 still has far superior circuit protection.  For strictly command operation, I see no value in having a variable transformer.  If you're running DCS, you still have conventional capability using the variable channels of the TIU as well.

Guns,

   John we have disagreed on this for many years, I also use the old ZW's & KW's other channels for operating/controlling voltage input to many other things, something the Bricks can not provide, I do wish the old transformer came with better/lighter breakers, however installing the Scott Type 7-10 Amp breakers is no big deal.  Did you happen to see what Dale is considering as an upgrade to the old ZW's.  Got to say now that is a way cool brick option, to expand the old ZW's even further.

PCRR/Dave

I would get the PH-180s (if you can find them), as others have said, much better, more power, better breakers, similar price etc. The PH-180 is arguably the best power supply available today for our modern electronic trains and also the best value. These are great power supplies. A PH-180 on each channel of your DCS TIU (or even every two channels) is about as good as it gets, IMO.

Pine Creek Railroad posted:

Did you happen to see what Dale is considering as an upgrade to the old ZW's.  Got to say now that is a way cool brick option, to expand the old ZW's even further.

I didn't see anything on that, what is he thinking about?  Can you point me to a link?  There are plenty of old ZW's around, so an enhancement would be useful.

Edit: never mind, I saw the new thread he started.

John,

Topic is "PW ZW as "brick"?"  Posted earlier today.

Having both a 180-powerhouse and several PW ZWs and a KW, I find the powerhouse to be superior, IF, you have no need to vary the voltage to the track (for example, you run conventional and do not have TIU variable channel available).

RJR posted:

(for example, you run conventional and do not have TIU variable channel available).

Or a PowerMaster.