@Conrail6358 Ryan, took me a few days to see the presentation, great by the way. You said you'll do a follow up on the next Ryan & Dave show and these will be featured in the V2 catalog out in July. So this would mean production time should yield most likely next year?

I really like that these are scale and are tiny to the locomotives we are used to seeing. I'm slightly disappointed that there's no smoke, but given how little space is there I can understand why. I'm sure that if there was a way to get a smoke unit in there, it would be. Can't wait to see the next Ryan & Dave show to give more info on these.

I've been waiting for what seems like an eternity for Lionel to finally produce a true to scale 4-4-0!  I've read all of the above discussions regarding the lack of smoke a sound from the engine.  It is very obvious, that many on this site lack the knowledge needed to discuss such a subject in any detail, yet they elect to pipe in the loudest regarding their notion of perceived short comings.  

Of those who believe Lionel could use HO boards and sounds in a O Gauge model can't be serious.   Those boards aren't designed to carry the loads that an O gauge model would need to operate the functionality you so desire nor the sound system you are seeking.  Also have you ever looked at a REAL 4-4-O and compared it to late 40's engine?   If so you would have noted how much smaller these machines were than their more modern counterpart.  And in O Scale they will look more like something between S Scale and HO.  Thus the available space for electronics' is severely limited.

Lionel indeed could have spent a lot more money on the project trying to squeeze everything in, but would you be will to pay for the significantly increased product development costs?  I think not.   From what I've seen of their product presentation it looks like to me that they've spent a great deal of time and energy in developing a true scale model of these two iconic locomotives.  Many kudos to them for taking on such a project.

I look forward to seeing these and picking one up as they will look great on a layout.  The inclusion of "brass" piping and detail is a huge plus in my book.   They've tried to capture the look and feel of the actual machine from a long ago era.  

Good going Lionel, and don't pay any heed to the naysayers on this website.  Just keep up the good work you are doing.  

Think and act positively and good things will come to pass.  This is true for all things in life.

Kazar

C&O H8 Allegheny: The heaviest & most powerful bad boy to ever traverse any rail.

Well, I ignore the usual anti circle L posters....

The good news is we all get to have an opinion...

The Lionel two pack set will most certainly sell out, with just the 150 being offered...  its fantastic to get both golden spike engines being offered with the latest and most accurate decorations and with two FREE passenger cars!  I personally know of 5 sets selling in the first few minutes, and i know several other friends of mine will no doubt be ordering...  UP fans and collectors...

I think the pricing is just as i expected to pay.  These are ONE TIME offerings.  Highly detailed SCALE engines.  I am very much looking forward to these...

 

Bob

Lionel Fan and Super "O" Track Enthusiast

My prediction: These innovative items will sell out--all of them--well before they reach U.S. shores. Although costly, the price one is willing to pay is based on how badly one wants the item (I would like to have both the Jupiter and the 119 myself) and how much one is willing to save-up or put aside to get the item. For some, it might just be a matter of reducing the size of their existing collection a bit. I figure if I could sell-off about eight or so of the locomotives I currently have (and Lord knows it would be a good idea to do so), I could pretty much pay for both the locomotives I want. May just elect to follow that route, in fact, but I probably had better not wait too long. With just 150 of the two-packs being offered, I don't imagine there will be any available for ordering by the end of this month, if not much sooner.

 

The recently released Legacy H-10 steam engines came equipped with smoke, rail sounds, swinging bell, and whistle steam for a MSRP of $749.99.  The H-10 engines were offered at a discount from full retail price by several dealers. 
 
The ONE TIME ONLY (where have I heard that before?) special edition “die cast and brass construction,” commemorative steam engines have a price of $1099.99 each, which is $350 more than the Legacy H-10 steam engines.  However, the special edition steam engines DO NOT include smoke, rail sounds, swinging bell, or whistle steam.  Furthermore, these special edition commemorative steam engines appear to be available only at the full retail price based upon the dealers’ ads I have seen. 
 
I fully understand that the size of these engines is a limiting factor in what features will be included but to me the addition of some brass details while removing many features that are usually included in Legacy engines does not justify the higher MSRP.
 
I will pass on purchasing these engines.  For everyone that has decided to order these engines (and cars) I sincerely hope that you enjoy your purchases.

Greg

Sad day indeed when both sides of whether to purchase or not these or other offerings, be it Lionel, MTH, Atlas, etc.. Only the voices of those that will purchase should be heard on these matters and offerings. But not those, nor reasoning's behind not purchasing should remain silent.

Sad indeed, especially when this is a "Forum" open to also opinions be they positive or negative.  Either way, the subject of the post and the product success will depend on purchasing and hopefully all those that made the commitment here will post pictures when they arrive.

Super O Bob posted:

Well, I ignore the usual anti circle L lposters...

The good news is we all get to have an opinion...

The Lionel two pack set will most certainly sell out, with just the 150 being offered...  its fantastic to get both golden spike engines being offered with the latest and most accurate decorations and with two FREE passenger cars!  I personally know of 5 sets selling in the first few minutes, and i know several other friends of mine will no doubt be ordering...  UP fans and collectors...

I think the pricing is just as i expected to pay.  These are ONE TIME offerings.  Highly detailed SCALE engines.  I am very much looking forward to these...

 

I applaud Lionel for their effort with these offerings. Considering the cost of Legacy steamers these days, I don’t see the prices as out-of-line. I’m sure those who order from this series will be most pleased with them. The passenger cars look equally fine and priced pretty reasonably, too.

At the same time, I also want to thank Lionel for making a traditional offering of the two historic locos in their popular postwar  “General” style. These are found on pages 70 and 71 of the Lionel 2019 Vol. 1 catalog. $549 for the pair! They are LionChief models. 

I ordered a set of these for myself yesterday from my local train shop.  

I will also get the pair of the  commemorative 6464 style boxcars offered on the same pages as the Generals. 

With all of their 150th products, Lionel is doing an excellent job of remembering this signal event in American history. Kudos to them!

rthomps posted:

Thanks RT for posting.

I'm a big Lionel fan but not much into steam.  I would like to comment on the professionalism of video presentation.  You can certainly see and hear the historian in Ryan come out.  He spoke for 10 minutes straight from memory.  The presentation was refreshing because it was not full of comedy or silly antics.     

Lionelzwl2012 posted:

Does the BEMC board have legacy cruise control? 

It reads Legacy signals and has cruise control but it will not run at the same speed as most all other Legacy engines. It should run together with the other 4-4-0 in this set though. Shouldn't be a big deal. They didn't have SD70s in the 1860s.

Pete

I wish I could purchase these engines, and I applaud Lionel for bringing them out. Just a bit steep for me though. I’m guessing the naysayers can’t afford them, so they bash them to justify their cause. Thank you Lionel for pushing the envelope and trying new and exciting products!

While I don't particularly have very many scale models and these engines are more than what I'd like spend. These are absolutely beautiful locomotives, I don't get all the negative comments!

Also, if you want this set on a budget, Lionel, MTH and others offer models that may or may not be scale but are also very nice. Give it some time, I'm sure Lionel will have LC+ 2.0 version that will cost much less and look almost as good.

H1000

I can only already see these locos priced at $500 a pop three to five years after they come out b/c there will be almost no demand for them.

They are historically significant....but they lack too many of what most consumers consider standard features to be very enjoyable to run in 2020 or so, IMHO. 

I suspect that most of these will turn into display pieces.  I also suspect that many people will eventually want to display a more interesting locomotive in time and will eventually stick these back in their box on a shelf, out of sight and mind.

It's a free Country and I hope all that order these enjoy them.  But I won't be one of them. 

It sounds like Lionel is putting together some nice products hear. I would have thought these would have been closer to $1,500 each.

I have only need back to trains for about 4 years and don't trust myself with $1,000+ engines yet. I was planning on going for the LC set and these passenger cars. However, while reading the descriptions on Lionel.com. They have drawbar couplers so they only work with the hybrid engines?

I am hoping maybe they will also offer these with traditional knuckle couplers in the 2019 V2 catalog.  

"I can only already see these locos priced at $500 a pop three to five years after they come out b/c there will be almost no demand for them."

In general, previous Lionel "Heritage" (or similar) trains/sets have pretty much held their value (you can check it out with some fact-finding) - and certainly not have not decreased by ~60% for un-run sets as you indicate. 

Good thing you're free to put your money elsewhere.

 

 

RT   

rthomps posted:

"I can only already see these locos priced at $500 a pop three to five years after they come out b/c there will be almost no demand for them."

In general, previous Lionel "Heritage" (or similar) trains/sets have pretty much held their value (you can check it out with some fact-finding) - and certainly not have not decreased by ~60% for un-run sets as you indicate. 

Good thing you're free to put your money elsewhere.

Hey Hoss - why don't we let this play out for five years....and lay off the personal attacks in the meantime?

At this price point and included features these locos are a firm pass for me.  For those of you buying I hope these locos meet your needs but for me, no thanks.

-Greg

Member of the Brotherhood of the Crappy Basement Layout

Associate Member of the NJ Hi-Railers

Image result for nj hirailers logo

 

Berkshire President posted:
rthomps posted:

"I can only already see these locos priced at $500 a pop three to five years after they come out b/c there will be almost no demand for them."

In general, previous Lionel "Heritage" (or similar) trains/sets have pretty much held their value (you can check it out with some fact-finding) - and certainly not have not decreased by ~60% for un-run sets as you indicate. 

Good thing you're free to put your money elsewhere.

Hey Hoss - why don't we let this play out for five years....and lay off the personal attacks in the meantime?

No personal attack that I can see.  

-Greg

Member of the Brotherhood of the Crappy Basement Layout

Associate Member of the NJ Hi-Railers

Image result for nj hirailers logo

 

Lionel usually does pretty well with these offerings.  I personally have no interest in one but think it's a pretty interesting offering.  Looking at the comparison that was displayed on the screen of the standard General they put out vs. these models and I can see where there would be issues getting all the electronics inside.  It seems to be much smaller than their usual General release.  I'll take their word for it.  The Pennsy cars though look like they could be pretty nice!

As far as the regular Legacy vs BMF version, I think it will do well in this engine.  I don't believe many folks will be MU'ing these and hopefully they can tweak the speed curve to be more responsive.

General

 

Marty

 

Below the Signature...

"Awesome Treksgiving dinner with Captain Kirk"

 

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rthomps posted:

"I can only already see these locos priced at $500 a pop three to five years after they come out b/c there will be almost no demand for them."

In general, previous Lionel "Heritage" (or similar) trains/sets have pretty much held their value (you can check it out with some fact-finding) - and certainly not have not decreased by ~60% for un-run sets as you indicate. 

Good thing you're free to put your money elsewhere.

I have to disagree.  The Lincoln funeral train set has not only held its value but has gone up (I know I tried to get one).  That is if you can even find one.  And that set had nothing in it.  It was conventional.

These have full Legacy, and Sound in the cars.  So really the only thing is no Smoke.  And I think the massively accurate scale size and details make up for that.  These are really no more expensive than any other legacy engine.  It is just you are getting 2 so it doubles the cost.  

These are not the kind of engines mass produced over and over every few years.  

If they hold their value that's just a bonus.  Most of us buy them for enjoyment & don't care about what they may be worth in the future.

But the painstaking research and details Lionel has put into them is commendable.

Sean

fl9turbo2 posted:

For me its a Pass its not for me.  I was hoping for a vision big boy and a vision FEF then that would have been for me , and I would have broken out the wallet for them, But I hope its what everyone wants

They already did a Vision Big Boy.  Did you open up your wallet then?

 

Sean

SandJam posted:
fl9turbo2 posted:

For me its a Pass its not for me.  I was hoping for a vision big boy and a vision FEF then that would have been for me , and I would have broken out the wallet for them, But I hope its what everyone wants

They already did a Vision Big Boy.  Did you open up your wallet then?

 

I have the big boy not the 4014  I was hoping for a oil fired 4014 and a vision FEF

Looks like a beautiful set.  I went ahead and ordered the special with the additional 2 pack on the Lionel Site.  As time rolls, we will see if this has the excitement.  When they are released, I'm sure there will be buyers out there to grab up these as they come out.  Not charging us until they ship is a big "plus".  I'm just thinking of the potential delays we've seen on some items.  Don't have that era on my layout.  Always time for "Frontier Days" and run them through the town on those special holidays.

Bryant

TCA 18-73717

JDFonz posted:

I wish I could purchase these engines, and I applaud Lionel for bringing them out. Just a bit steep for me though. I’m guessing the naysayers can’t afford them, so they bash them to justify their cause. Thank you Lionel for pushing the envelope and trying new and exciting products!

Too much money for me also.  Otherwise, I would have already placed an order.   Thank Lionel for making these available.  NH Joe

SandJam posted:

I have to disagree.  The Lincoln funeral train set has not only held its value but has gone up (I know I tried to get one).  That is if you can even find one.  And that set had nothing in it.  It was conventional.

.......................

I don't want to come off as too negative here, but there was a twist to that that burned those of us who "bought in" early on the LFT.

At first offering, the LFT was "only available direct from Lionel" and with no discount whatsoever on the MSRP as a result.

I ordered one engine/car set and 2 sets of the add-on cars.  (MSRP was $800 for the engine with one car and $300 for the 2 car set, IIRC).

Well, after time went on, it turned out Lionel over-estimated the market for these, so they eventually went out to dealers with a bit of a blow out on the pricing.  IIRC, there were dealers selling the basic set with the 2 car add-on for somewhere between $900 and $1k.

So as a previous purchaser of the LFT, that scenario is still in my mind when deciding on these items. 

If ordering through my go-to dealer may result in some small discount on the MSRP, the risk of getting burned in this manner is less, and I am more likely to decide favorably on a purchase.  If it's full MSRP everywhere, then I may be influenced to the "pass" side.

It's not the features included that at all cause hesitation.  All the other Heritage offerings of this type were pretty good, IMO (I think I might have had a few loose figures in one of the 2 packs - while not thrilling, it was not the end of the world).

-Dave

I was considering Northern Central #17 the York but the coaches Lionel is making do not match the new "replica" coaches that the heritage railroad uses. I am not sure which model I will go for now.

If I reject reality and substitute 3-Rail, how does Narrow Gauge come into all of this?

I bet Mike and Andy are working on new scale 4-4-0’s right now that will have smoke, whistle steam, and sounds, for less money...and you will see them in the next catalog.

Maybe so. Enjoy it if it ever happens.  It could happen but it also could be wishful thinking. A scale 4-4-0 with those features would be a technical feat, and it also would be amongst the vanishingly rare new tooling in some years from anyone but Lionel.  Thus, personally,  I think I’ll go with an actual product ready for ordering.  In 2020 we'll see which products are a reality.

Craignor posted:

I bet Mike and Andy are working on new scale 4-4-0’s right now that will have smoke, whistle steam, and sounds, for less money...and you will see them in the next catalog.

Good luck in getting those anytime soon ..........

 

 

RT   

rthomps posted:
Craignor posted:

I bet Mike and Andy are working on new scale 4-4-0’s right now that will have smoke, whistle steam, and sounds, for less money...and you will see them in the next catalog.

Good luck in getting those anytime soon ..........

It occurred to me earlier tonight that if Lionel is working towards a scale 4-4-0, MTH probably is too.

I have no brand allegiance. I will be looking out for the best models, with the best features, quality, reliability, and of course price.

 

 

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