Lionel's Big Announcement 5/10 - 150 Years in the Making

Berkshire President posted:

rthomps posted:

"I can only already see these locos priced at $500 a pop three to five years after they come out b/c there will be almost no demand for them."

In general, previous Lionel "Heritage" (or similar) trains/sets have pretty much held their value (you can check it out with some fact-finding) - and certainly not have not decreased by ~60% for un-run sets as you indicate. 

Good thing you're free to put your money elsewhere.

Hey Hoss - why don't we let this play out for five years....and lay off the personal attacks in the meantime?

No personal attack that I can see.  

-Greg

Lionel usually does pretty well with these offerings.  I personally have no interest in one but think it's a pretty interesting offering.  Looking at the comparison that was displayed on the screen of the standard General they put out vs. these models and I can see where there would be issues getting all the electronics inside.  It seems to be much smaller than their usual General release.  I'll take their word for it.  The Pennsy cars though look like they could be pretty nice!

As far as the regular Legacy vs BMF version, I think it will do well in this engine.  I don't believe many folks will be MU'ing these and hopefully they can tweak the speed curve to be more responsive.

rthomps posted:

"I can only already see these locos priced at $500 a pop three to five years after they come out b/c there will be almost no demand for them."

In general, previous Lionel "Heritage" (or similar) trains/sets have pretty much held their value (you can check it out with some fact-finding) - and certainly not have not decreased by ~60% for un-run sets as you indicate. 

Good thing you're free to put your money elsewhere.

I have to disagree.  The Lincoln funeral train set has not only held its value but has gone up (I know I tried to get one).  That is if you can even find one.  And that set had nothing in it.  It was conventional.

These have full Legacy, and Sound in the cars.  So really the only thing is no Smoke.  And I think the massively accurate scale size and details make up for that.  These are really no more expensive than any other legacy engine.  It is just you are getting 2 so it doubles the cost.  

These are not the kind of engines mass produced over and over every few years.  

If they hold their value that's just a bonus.  Most of us buy them for enjoyment & don't care about what they may be worth in the future.

But the painstaking research and details Lionel has put into them is commendable.

For me its a Pass its not for me.  I was hoping for a vision big boy and a vision FEF then that would have been for me , and I would have broken out the wallet for them, But I hope its what everyone wants

fl9turbo2 posted:

For me its a Pass its not for me.  I was hoping for a vision big boy and a vision FEF then that would have been for me , and I would have broken out the wallet for them, But I hope its what everyone wants

They already did a Vision Big Boy.  Did you open up your wallet then?

SandJam posted:

fl9turbo2 posted:

For me its a Pass its not for me.  I was hoping for a vision big boy and a vision FEF then that would have been for me , and I would have broken out the wallet for them, But I hope its what everyone wants

They already did a Vision Big Boy.  Did you open up your wallet then?

 

I have the big boy not the 4014  I was hoping for a oil fired 4014 and a vision FEF

Looks like a beautiful set.  I went ahead and ordered the special with the additional 2 pack on the Lionel Site.  As time rolls, we will see if this has the excitement.  When they are released, I'm sure there will be buyers out there to grab up these as they come out.  Not charging us until they ship is a big "plus".  I'm just thinking of the potential delays we've seen on some items.  Don't have that era on my layout.  Always time for "Frontier Days" and run them through the town on those special holidays.

JDFonz posted:

I wish I could purchase these engines, and I applaud Lionel for bringing them out. Just a bit steep for me though. I’m guessing the naysayers can’t afford them, so they bash them to justify their cause. Thank you Lionel for pushing the envelope and trying new and exciting products!

Too much money for me also.  Otherwise, I would have already placed an order.   Thank Lionel for making these available.  NH Joe

One retailer is apparently offering 5% off the loco and 30% off the passenger cars, plus no sales tax outside the state of the retailer, for those who don't want to order directly from Lionel.  

SandJam posted:

I have to disagree.  The Lincoln funeral train set has not only held its value but has gone up (I know I tried to get one).  That is if you can even find one.  And that set had nothing in it.  It was conventional.

.......................

I don't want to come off as too negative here, but there was a twist to that that burned those of us who "bought in" early on the LFT.

At first offering, the LFT was "only available direct from Lionel" and with no discount whatsoever on the MSRP as a result.

I ordered one engine/car set and 2 sets of the add-on cars.  (MSRP was $800 for the engine with one car and $300 for the 2 car set, IIRC).

Well, after time went on, it turned out Lionel over-estimated the market for these, so they eventually went out to dealers with a bit of a blow out on the pricing.  IIRC, there were dealers selling the basic set with the 2 car add-on for somewhere between $900 and $1k.

So as a previous purchaser of the LFT, that scenario is still in my mind when deciding on these items. 

If ordering through my go-to dealer may result in some small discount on the MSRP, the risk of getting burned in this manner is less, and I am more likely to decide favorably on a purchase.  If it's full MSRP everywhere, then I may be influenced to the "pass" side.

It's not the features included that at all cause hesitation.  All the other Heritage offerings of this type were pretty good, IMO (I think I might have had a few loose figures in one of the 2 packs - while not thrilling, it was not the end of the world).

-Dave

Just order a set of the traditional General 150th cars with LionChief as shown on pages 70-71 of the 2019 catalog. $549 for the PAIR. Voila!  

That’s what I did and it will work great for me. Thanks to Lionel for offering us choices.

The Lionchief set is also a great choice with a special gold remote to go with it.  

You can't lose either way.  

I was considering Northern Central #17 the York but the coaches Lionel is making do not match the new "replica" coaches that the heritage railroad uses. I am not sure which model I will go for now.

I bet Mike and Andy are working on new scale 4-4-0’s right now that will have smoke, whistle steam, and sounds, for less money...and you will see them in the next catalog.

Maybe so. Enjoy it if it ever happens.  It could happen but it also could be wishful thinking. A scale 4-4-0 with those features would be a technical feat, and it also would be amongst the vanishingly rare new tooling in some years from anyone but Lionel.  Thus, personally,  I think I’ll go with an actual product ready for ordering.  In 2020 we'll see which products are a reality.

Craignor posted:

I bet Mike and Andy are working on new scale 4-4-0’s right now that will have smoke, whistle steam, and sounds, for less money...and you will see them in the next catalog.

Good luck in getting those anytime soon ..........

rthomps posted:

Craignor posted:

I bet Mike and Andy are working on new scale 4-4-0’s right now that will have smoke, whistle steam, and sounds, for less money...and you will see them in the next catalog.

Good luck in getting those anytime soon ..........

It occurred to me earlier tonight that if Lionel is working towards a scale 4-4-0, MTH probably is too.

I have no brand allegiance. I will be looking out for the best models, with the best features, quality, reliability, and of course price.

The MTH PS3 electronics that fit into the Premier scale GE 44-ton diesel engine model may be just the thing for an MTH scale 4-4-0 steamer.

MELGAR

I placed my PRR order with Charlie Ro. I got a small discount from the price and ordered the PRR coaches and the Woodrow sleeping cars as well.

Andy, in his Notch6 podcast on the last catalog said that the shrinking market did not justify MTH making much if any new tooling.  This plus the timing suggests that MTH isn't making a scale 4-4-0 for the Promontory anniversary to me.  They are much too savvy marketers to announce this project in the Oct 2019 catalog when the event was in May 2019. If you want a three rail O gauge scale loco of these two locos, or one of them, you will likely be buying Lionel products.