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Its been a long time since I've posted, but I notice that the posts are still the same. 

Lots of price sensitivity.  Trust me, I understand that well.

Desire for ever more features (which clashes with the preceding).

Constant comparisons of apples and oranges. 

Kudos from enthusiasts of the item, grousing from those who don't really care.

So, let me put in my oar:

The folks complaining about price have no idea of what it costs to build a commercial model.  The amount of capital which is invested for the entire run.  The amount of labor every single extra little detail part adds to price.  The very high costs for painting complex schemes like those required for 19th Century railroading.

I understand.  You have no direct point of comparison.  I do. So let me make a couple of points:

1.  Electronics.  The reason a lot of 0-gauge electronics is so large is because of the power and amperage used.  Sure an HO board is smaller, but then it would blow the very first time your engine derailed.

2.  Sound.  Putting sound in a follow-on car is unavoidable.  Its the speaker, you see.  We in 0-gauge demand large, high-output speakers or else complain the sound is tinny.  If they used a speaker small enough to fit in the engine or tender, you same folks will be loudly complaining about the poor sound quality.  Remember it is the speaker which mostly decides sound quality and size DOES matter here.

3.  Paint.  I'm sorry, but it costs just a few dollars to paint a loco black and add some transfer pinstripes or numbers.  The complexity of paint schemes adds a vast amount of cost to a model.  The most expensive single cost in my models was the paint, it cost hundreds of dollars per unit.  I know they are getting it a lot cheaper, but I still expect is is very expensive.  Way more expensive than black.  So apples and oranges anyone?

4.  Design.  Design costs are rising constantly, the wages of skilled CAD or 3D designers is rising, not falling.  Even in China.  While it is true that the basic design of these locos are probably knock offs of the ones built by Precision Scale back in the '90s, a lot of the design work has to be made from scratch.  I'm sure they are using different elements of running gear and die casting tooling has a high up-front cost which needs to be amortized.  On a limited run model, this amortization is probably quite considerable.

So there are some things to consider in a nutshell.  I applaud Lionel for taking the leap into the past, I was getting sick of seeing new versions of their horrible General model and of course their Lincoln set was another Precision Scale knock off and their Best Friend was based on the 1920s replica and not the real one.  But the Stourbridge Lion was definitely cool.

In fact, if they are interested in some nearly completed CAD and 3D drawings of some great locos, they can contact me.  They're for sale.

Dave

 

 

Thanks for the information to all who responded.  Found some MTH W.A.R.R. rolling stock for my Civil War toy locos from LCCA representing the great locomotive chase, and some Lionel W.A.R.R. passenger cars/horse car as part of a 2017 set.  Anyone want the locomotive as I think two 4-4-0s plus the scale CP 4-4-0 is probably quite enough?  Should have remembered the current MTH catalog items, but just ordered a few from Mr. Muffin.  Nice toys .

 

The sky has been falling on Lionel's demise since I started buying trains in the late 60's and people are still saying it's not long before Lionel becomes a distant memory. Yes it will happen one day but not in the near future. 

As far as 4-4-0's being announced this past week, they seem to be very nice but I just cannot afford to buy them. Buy the oversize ones from Lionel or MTH? Not sure, I have to look at the them in person to see if I would like them. I usually run modern scale diesels and only have one steam engine, a scale camelback. Although I do like 4-4-0's and I would like to add these types to my layout. But would these look ok with my other scale engines or just run them and have fun. 

Dave

david1 posted:

 Although I do like 4-4-0's and I would like to add these types to my layout. But would these look ok with my other scale engines or just run them and have fun. 

Dave

Would they? Yes they would. During the 100th anniversary of the Civil War, the General made a tour of the engine and a passenger car with exhibit dioramas of the Great Locomotive Chase. Just as I was involved in piloting WW2 war planes around the country and landing at airports with modern jets, we were hits at each place as are any steam engines when they are running in a modern world of engines.          So run your 4-4-0  on your modern railroad and they can be on a siding as an exhibit when not running.

Quick update - as promised in our announcement and earlier posts, we've decided to backdate the Pennsy unit into the late 1880s. This means Russia Iron jacketing on the boiler and stack and just a little more color all around. Still stately, stylish and very Pennsy - but a much vibrant locomotive more in keeping with the others in this series. Here's the new art!

 1931820 Brass Hybrid 4-4-0_PRR 573

As of today, we've sold through 1/3 of our sets on lionelstore.com with good numbers all around. Thank you to all who have already helped make this project a success.

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laming posted:
Landsteiner posted:

Andy, in his Notch6 podcast on the last catalog said that the shrinking market did not justify MTH making much if any new tooling.

That right there is ominous sounding for my 3-rail friends.

Andre

Maybe that says more about MTH than the overall 3 rail market.

All I know is, this offering is a huge swing and a miss for my taste, but then I was lost at steam.

I’m curious as to how hard it would be or feasible (yes all be it at the price point you shouldn’t need to) but to install a super chuffer board and or an HO chuff & or an HO smoke unit installed in the unit. Or possibly retrofit an MTH smoke unit that was designed for a 1/48 scale 4-4-0 and make that work....just some options and like I said at the price point Lionel should have already installed this equipment, but I wonder if the above mentioned options would work.

Did some research regarding PRR 573... Found reference to it in "Locomotives of the Pennsylvania Railroad Volume 1, The Early Years, 1848-1874". A side view drawing can be found on page 162 of the paperback edition. It was a class C locomotive, used for fast freight and passenger traffic (the original PRR engine classifications used from 1868 thru 1897, not the revised one that everyone knows about) built in Dec 1872 in Altoona. It was renumbered to the Grand Rapids & Indiana as #56 in 1883.

Well, I am going to wait for the catalog to come out. I am interested in these, but I have to wait and see what other competition is driving the catalog. If I have some room for these, I will get both Jupiter, 119, and the Pennsylvania offering. Just have to wait and see. I still have to watch the Ryan & Dave show from Friday, things were a little busier this weekend than I thought it would be.

MTHPRRGURU posted:

I’m curious as to how hard it would be or feasible (yes all be it at the price point you shouldn’t need to) but to install a super chuffer board and or an HO chuff & or an HO smoke unit installed in the unit. Or possibly retrofit an MTH smoke unit that was designed for a 1/48 scale 4-4-0 and make that work....just some options and like I said at the price point Lionel should have already installed this equipment, but I wonder if the above mentioned options would work.

I suspect the logic board and motor consume most of the space in the locomotive.  No way of knowing until one is actually available if this stuff would fit.  The MTH HO smoke unit is about 1.3" long.  One issue is finding if the smoke output control from the BEMC board is active, you'll need that to control the smoke unit.  Since this comes with no smoke unit, they may not have enabled those outputs.

Here's the MTH HO smoke unit.

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Last edited by gunrunnerjohn
Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

Well, I am going to wait for the catalog to come out. I am interested in these, but I have to wait and see what other competition is driving the catalog. If I have some room for these, I will get both Jupiter, 119, and the Pennsylvania offering. Just have to wait and see. I still have to watch the Ryan & Dave show from Friday, things were a little busier this weekend than I thought it would be.

As far as I know there was NOT a Ryan and Dave show on Friday.

MartyE posted:
Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

Well, I am going to wait for the catalog to come out. I am interested in these, but I have to wait and see what other competition is driving the catalog. If I have some room for these, I will get both Jupiter, 119, and the Pennsylvania offering. Just have to wait and see. I still have to watch the Ryan & Dave show from Friday, things were a little busier this weekend than I thought it would be.

As far as I know there was NOT a Ryan and Dave show on Friday.

Well that is odd. I wonder what went on then, maybe something came up or someone was sick?

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