Here's the link.
I know I'll be buying my first starter set in a long while. I hope they do the TOS next. This could be a big seller outside the hobby. I did fact check the Kirk Car and it's correct otherwise Ryan would have to wear a Red Shirt at York in the fall. The add on cars have a familiar ring to them.
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Just when I think that Ryan can't find anything else I need.... he does this.
I normally don't like "gimmick-ey" toy trains but a Foghorn Leghorn boxcar??!!!!!! Boy'd have to be crazier than a rooster in a Chik-Fil-A to turn that down. 
MartyE posted:Here's the link.
I know I'll be buying my first starter set in a long while. I hope they do the TOS next. This could be a big seller outside the hobby. I did fact check the Kirk Car and it's correct otherwise Ryan would have to wear a Red Shirt at York in the fall.
I am holding out for the Scale version.
A very ambitious catalog imho. So much licensed stuff! Can James Bond and MAD Magazine be far behind? Also love the military cars and pin ups (for those who don't have to ask permission from the Ms).
The 0-6-0T. But surprise they added artist drawn smoke when it won't have smoke. Wonder how many will think it's also a smoker?
A shame that they are still Pimpin' the Black Widow scheme......Time for some Red/Gray Bloody nose scheme on those Postwar F3 Lionchiefs.
Before I enlarged the Vision GS steamers page, I thought I was seeing a $999 price which would make sense because these engines are overdone
Another Lionel catalog which nothing of interest for me. Way too much Christmas product. My Lionel dealer also says it is too much (Christmas) holiday product. Still wanting some locomotive models that neither Lionel or MTH have not made yet.
I just ordered the Santa Fe E1 A/B set from Sunset Models / 3rd Rail though my Sunset Models / 3rd Rail dealer. They are not due out for at least a year. Their previous models run fine and are real nice so I wait.
Maybe MTH will surprise me with some new locomotive model(s) in new their catalog this April.
Very disappointed in how few options there are for modern diesels. The only thing that got my attention was the Amtrak black E8s.
I'm very curious about the auxiliary water tenders. Are those derived from the J3a Hudson's? Are they prototypical? I would've thought that they would've used the tooling from the old L3a Mohawk tenders.
The CNJ Baron SD40 set is quite nice, though. Hopefully this run of the SD40's retains the nice look of the kinematic pilots that the 2015 run did.
The Southern Pacific GS series are impressive but out of my price range. I might be in for the BNSF graffiti beer car, maybe Vision stock cars, and I'll probably get the Christmas Vacation illuminated boxcar.
A ton of great stuff in this catalog but I bought a lot from the 2019 catalogs so my train budget is a little thin this year.
I am impressed with the Christmas lighted FasTrack idea! Under a tree with twinkling lights, this set with lights in the track adds a great colorful light show under the tree. I am in for the set and perhaps additional track. Innovative! I would think it would sell pretty well, if Lionel can get it into some of the big chains to reach the public. Perhaps Menards will stock some for Christmas.
Just turned the page and saw the Christmas Light Express, with LEDs on the cars. If this will activate the lighted track, I might get this set instead, and add a loop of lighted track.
Ken-Oscale posted:I am impressed with the Christmas lighted FasTrack idea! Under a tree with twinkling lights, this set with lights in the track adds a great colorful light show under the tree. I am in for the set and perhaps additional track. Innovative! I would think it would sell pretty well, if Lionel can get it into some of the big chains to reach the public. Perhaps Menards will stock some for Christmas.
We were talking at the LHS the other day if they could make it so the lights follow the train around the track. How festive (or annoying) could that be?
Nice catalog. Lots of variety... must be someone is buying brand new trains.
My only quibble - for several years now - is I do not understand Lionel's pricing. The scale guys complain about high prices, but I guess they fail to notice that the prices for the traditional stuff are only a few dollars less than the much more costly to produce scale items.
The new style SP caboose is $75.00. A much more costly to produce scale caboose with detailed interior is $99.00. Huh? A newly tooled scale box car for $99.00... they're giving that away if you compare that price to a traditional box car from years old tooling.
A couple years ago when the Lionel Junction sets were cataloged, a separate sale Lionel Junction car was $45.00. Huh?? The new Standard O cataloged cars list at $45.00. Huh??? I just don't understand. For all the grumbling the scale guys do, it sure seems to me like Lionel is bending over backwards to keep the prices on scale rolling stock as low as possible. Ryan said as much at one of the recent TCA museum presentations.
As I told a Lionel rep some years ago, I want to buy a traditional train car and pay for that train car, not subsidize tooling for scale items, which in reality, need to be priced a lot higher.
Well, Lionel is free to do as they wish, just as I am. They can price the traditional cars as high as they want... which I'm sure is part of the logic for so many licensed tradtionally sized items. But I'm not obligated to buy them though, and am not going to. The one deal is the ore/hopper car six packs... too bad more dealers don't break them up.
Luckily for me there's still the used market, so the Brianel Repaint Shops will continue to be very active for the foreseeable future.
IT appears the clear winner for popularity would be the Preamble express especially those who are collecting the AFT.
The PRR Reefer set appear to be PFE cars repainted... the Atlas O trainman reefer from years past is more prototypical.
I have the superbly detailed MTH FM Trainmasters. A breakup of the PRR set without the loco I may have to seek
I already have the Weaver models Conrail Blue and white reefer. I will research if Conrail had a similar to the PCF [Pacific Car & Foundry] boxcar for hauling beer.
The Conrail Rotary coal cars will be a must.
The PRR TOFC I can add to my existing PRR TOFC set.
I too am curious of the Aux tenders for the T1
I'm on the fence of the PRR sleeper two packs.
I will have to research the B6 with the Atlantic tenders... Interesting combo though.
Bottom line the Scale side of this catalog I would choke it up to SP and West Coast RR fans for sure.
MartyE posted:Ken-Oscale posted:I am impressed with the Christmas lighted FasTrack idea! Under a tree with twinkling lights, this set with lights in the track adds a great colorful light show under the tree. I am in for the set and perhaps additional track. Innovative! I would think it would sell pretty well, if Lionel can get it into some of the big chains to reach the public. Perhaps Menards will stock some for Christmas.
We were talking at the LHS the other day if they could make it so the lights follow the train around the track.
Marty,
The way I read the description in the catalog, that's exactly what it does. According to the catalog, each track section lights up when there's a train on that section and the lights on that (each) section go out a few seconds after there's no longer a train on that piece of track.
Stu
I just wish they'd cease and desist creating plain Lion Chief engines, and make them all either + or 2.0. This includes RTR sets.
NOT LionelLLC posted:Marty,
The way I read the description in the catalog, that's exactly what it does. According to the catalog, each track section lights up when there's a train on that section and the lights on that (each) section go out a few seconds after there's no longer a train on that piece of track.
Stu
Well then, nevermind! Cool! Just re-read it and that's it. Cool!
As a Postwar guy, I am totally in on the Santa Fe PW-inspired set. That is a must have!
The 0-6-0T LC 2.0's look great (and at a great price) but already have one of those ordered from the 2019 catalog.
Still digesting the rest. I usually like to see a hard copy before I make final decisions. Great catalog!
Hey! Whos In for the "Christmas Story" Fragile Boxcar? Now this one should have the Railsounds "Banging moichandise" sound in it! 
Well, for me, Lionel has priced themselves out of business. One can't afford to buy the cars to be pulled behind the engines!
Was a bit disappointed with the catalog how many GS loco can one market take I was hopeful for a C&O streamline Hudson maybe just maybe something different between MTH and Lionel there are so many daylight loco out there, That does not mean there aren’t anything worth looking at I just feel this was a catalog LIONEL missed the mark on, For there 120th anniversary i would have made a vision line people can be excited about not just something that has been done to death, only good thing is I can save my money
Fortunately for the old wallet and credit card - which is still smoking from the last catalog - I already have the former release of the Reading T1 - a very nice model BTW with rounded underside boiler. The only item I can foresee pre-ordering is the Polar Express Hobo Car, and am glad Lionel is offering it in both the older and newer car liveries. The Snowflake 0-6-0 set and Elf work-train are interesting and will require careful review before committing to a pre-order.
The GSs with "reciprocating cylinder steam", plus the dynamo steam looks to be a good show! I look forward to a video, I could be tempted if it looks really cool!
"Elf work-train are interesting and will require careful review before committing to a pre-order"
So there is one good example of what I mean about the pricing! The set breaks down to right at $50 per each little bitty car! Something that should sell for half of that! Someone at Lionel is getting rich!
Like the catalog but the prices are really creeping up
josef posted:The 0-6-0T. But surprise they added artist drawn smoke when it won't have smoke. Wonder how many will think it's also a smoker?
Put your glasses on! It has fan driven smoke.
I gotta get the lighted Fastrack for under the tree.
Really like the Friendship Train and will be getting that.
The 0-6-0T engines - I see 2 of those in my future to MU/Lash-up.
The sound boxcars and cattle cars (though I really just want the sound car - perhaps someone will be selling individually after they are released).
I like a few of the Milk Cars, the Christmas Story and Christmas Vacation boxcars.
Need time to digest it all.
-Greg
Mikado 4501 posted:I'm very curious about the auxiliary water tenders. Are those derived from the J3a Hudson's? Are they prototypical? I would've thought that they would've used the tooling from the old L3a Mohawk tenders.
The CNJ Baron SD40 set is quite nice, though. Hopefully this run of the SD40's retains the nice look of the kinematic pilots that the 2015 run did.
They are not correct. The tenders shown in the catalog are from the NYC Hudsons that were just released and are too short. The correct tender should come from a NYC Mohawk. A correct tender is in the works from another source.
Too much Southern Pacific. And, I'm an SP railman. Agree the modern diesels are too limited. The new Pennsylvanias are of interest.
My Southern Belle diesels are wearing out. I was hoping they would be offering replacements in this catalog.
It’s all very.. unaffordable.
Anyone else having trouble loading the catalog? I get the first few pages, then a few tiny bits of pages and then nothing at all. Been trying for a half hour. On my ipad.
Dave Warburton posted:Anyone else having trouble loading the catalog? I get the first few pages, then a few tiny bits of pages and then nothing at all. Been trying for a half hour. On my ipad.
It won't download....
Having lots of trouble loading the catalog, Lionel’s website crashing?
Like if I could see it, I would tell you what I like.
Tempted by the Friendship Train. Would be nice to know how many cars Lionel is planning on making.
Vision line CNW stock car set is a must.
Can't read the catalog, I'll wait until I get to the store and get a paper copy.
I'm having trouble downloading it also.
Big Jim posted:"Elf work-train are interesting and will require careful review before committing to a pre-order"
So there is one good example of what I mean about the pricing! The set breaks down to right at $50 per each little bitty car! Something that should sell for half of that! Someone at Lionel is getting rich!
Must be using a standard formula for pricing cars in sets. The cars in the 120TH Deluxe Lionchief Plus 2.0 F3 set calculate to be $54.00 each using a street price of $899.99 for the complete set.
I calculated the cars price as follows;
Set Price = $899.99 minus $629.99 for the F3 Engines, leaves $270.00 spread over five cars. $270 divided by 5 = $54.00 per car.
***ETA*** I used the prices listed on Pat's Trains website for my calculation above.
Lots of great Southern Pacific and other items. However, My train Budget will not reach most items in this catalog (ouch!!
). I might order 1 or 2 cars towards the back of catalog.
Joe Gozzo
Oh, boy....what l could fill this catalog with! I would take three of those brass Vanderbilt tenders, and the #90, IF the tenders were available, and #90 was a Decapod.. neither likely...leaving a Grande reefer and three Q stock cars. Disappointing...
$$$$$$$$$$$$!
Whew! Well, I won't be buying again (now where's my nitro pills?).
Being a Strasburg fan, I'll definitely be ordering that Strasburg station and while it seems overpriced at $99 being a generic Lionel station and not authentic to the actual Strasburg station thst had a different roof and split foundation, I'll settle for it since it is the only station available anywhere in a Strasburg scheme. As for the Strasburg J tower, I'll waIt to see it in person to determine whether it's a significant improvement over the MTH one I currently have. (If it was automated with the signalman descending the steps I'd definitely get it )
I will get that set of Strasburg billboards but as to the new Strasburg Lionchief set I'm undecided. While it has the same incorrect 0-8-0 engine and not being a Lionchief plus 2.0 engine with speed control, I was thinking of converting my conventional set to TMCC but now I'm in a conumdrum wondering if breaking up my conventional set to sell off piecemeal and yse the money from the sales to buy the new set would be a better financial option than doing the TMCC conversion I've long planned to do I also notice the new set doesn't include the Cherry Hill station that Lionel will now sell seperately for $20.
Finally, I will definitely purchase the Lionchief Plus 2.0 Polar Express Berkshire.
Btw, I see the skiing hobo observation car is NOW available to everyone without joining the LCCA.
That's it for me and glad the catalog isn't a budget buster for me
Grampstrains posted:TheDude23112 posted:Dave Warburton posted:Anyone else having trouble loading the catalog? I get the first few pages, then a few tiny bits of pages and then nothing at all. Been trying for a half hour. On my ipad.
It won't download....
I think there are too many trying to download at once. I'll wait until later today.
That’s my guess, too. Try later. I tried my wife’s PC (Chrome) and no go there, either.
Thanks to everyone for their advice!
Several people have posted about "downloading" the catalog. Are you actually trying to download it or just view it?
Past catalogs have included an option to download the catalog as a PDF file. But, for some reason this catalog does not offer a download option. The 2020 AF catalog has a download option, but the 2020 Big Book does not.
ogaugeguy posted:...................... As for the Strasburg J tower, I'll waIt to see it in person to determine whether it's a significant improvement over the MTH one I currently have. (If it was automated with the signalman descending the steps I'd definitely get it ).........
Lionel has seemingly forgotten how to make 445 switch towers, except for the variety that is burning. The most recent 6-12917 version was last done in 1996.
-Dave
josef posted:The 0-6-0T. But surprise they added artist drawn smoke when it won't have smoke. Wonder how many will think it's also a smoker?
It's in the 2019 Volume 2 Catalog, and it states it has fan driven smoke. If it comes without smoke, it won't be coming home with me. Hard to believe the additional roadnames in the current catalog would suddenly omit a pretty important feature to probably a majority of folks.
Briefly got as far as the page with the 85th anniversary Gateman and the 356. then get stuck at this now every time I try to reload.
PDF or HTML, please! (yes, I'm fine with a list and I'll click forward and back - better than this 3DIssue garbage). This flippy page gimmick isn't worth the problems.
edit: It's getting better now I can see blank white pages in 3DIssue. Woo hoo!
-Dave
The PPLX coalporters (rotary gondolas) originally listed in 2016, V2 are on page 80, along with a bunch of other road names. Surprisingly, they are listed at the same prices from 2016 - 4 pack for $279 and 2 pack for $139. Still a bit steep. If I remember right, sometime last year there was a post about production issues in Eastern Europe regarding this run of cars.
On page 78, there are 3 packs of 2 bay hoppers listed for $279. While I'd love to have the Ontario & Western set, these hoppers aren't worth $93.33 each. Unfortunately, O&W freight cars are far and few between.
The SD40-2s are offered in 054 again......not everyone has the room for that radius.
This is interesting, it is listed in Pat's Trains 2020 Lionel Signature Edition web pages. Really detracts from the "exclusivity" of the similar item offered by the LCCA railroad club. The catalogued version does show "Polar Express" above the windows which I believe is different than the LCCA car as illustrated in this thread.
GregM posted:This is interesting, it is listed in Pat's Trains 2020 Lionel Signature Edition web pages. Really detracts from the "exclusivity" of the similar item offered by the LCCA railroad club. The catalogued version does show "Polar Express" above the windows which I believe is different than the LCCA car as illustrated in this thread.
Item Number 2027800 - THE POLAR EXPRESS Skiing Hobo Observation Car - Black Roof
I can agree to an extent, but it's good that they actually made it as a second version to match the older sets without snow (for all the people with the older sets who did not "start over" by buying a snowy roof set).
Hopefully someday (maybe that's today, I can't see the catalog yet ) they will offer a "snow" version of the conductor announcement car.
-Dave
I'd be in for the Chessie auxiliary water tender but alas it appears to be wrong. The length listed seems close but the picture matches the J3a Hudson tender and not the correct L3a Mohawk tender. Sadly, they have had correct tooling (minus the coal bunker cover) since the early 1990s. The J3a tender is way too short. Hopefully it is correct.
Can't view it in Edge, Chrome or IE White blank pages come up.
At $45 I'll pick up one of the rail boxes.
Possibly the British Hall set.
And on the fence on the annual Christmas car. I've collected them since early 90s, But this one is just downright ugly!
Jeez it has been exclusive for 2 years. I suspect the LCCA had an exclusive setup for a limited time.
Whats the deal with the price on the E8's?
For the price of 2 powered/ 2 sound locomotives I get 2 powered, 1 with sound.
Really wish they would just add sound to each.
MartyE posted:Jeez it has been exclusive for 2 years. I suspect the LCCA had an exclusive setup for a limited time.
Since when does "exclusive" have a time limit? I don't have one of the LCCA cars, I am not even a member of LCCA, so I am not invested in this in anyway, However, those who did purchase the car from LCCA for a premium price might have a different opinion regarding their "exclusive" purchase now. LCCA advertised that the car would ONLY be available through LCCA which while technically still true because of the differences between the cars, I would believe I was misled had I been a LCCA member and bought one of the cars. YMMV.
**ETA*** Wife was telling me to come eat lunch when I was proofreading my post. I have corrected a spelling error and changed the ending of a sentence. These changes won't show up in posts where this post was quoted before I made the changes.
A lot of things that are exclusive have a finite exclusive period.
I will probably go for the Reading coaches because I have been hoping Jersey Central/Reading cars get made correctly. It is hard to stomach that price though.
There is a ton of stuff in this catalog that much is certain. I don't quite yet know what all I will be ordering, there are some things that caught my eye. The VL stuff looks fantastic but not for me this trip around. See what else I can look at when I get home. Hopefully it loads better than my phone.
I have no trouble viewing the catalog. Too much kid stuff. Too much Christmas stuff. I'll stay with collecting prewar, & building my N gauge layout.
Whew, a LONG wait for the catalog, but not being a GS fan,....... my wait will be even longer............
Hats off to Lionel for keeping a lid on a pre-release of the Catalog this time.
MARTYE and GREGM, I purchased this car from the LCCA when it was first available and had my membership extended as part of the purchase.
Also, I recall years ago purchasing a Polar Express animated billboard advertised at that time exclusively available from the LCCA A few years later, Lionel did catalog and make that PE animated billboard available to the public but with a different photo on the billboard. I'm not an expert in such things but I'm guessing that change legally allowed the earlier LCCA version to maintain it's "exclusive" status.
Going to pre-order the Southern Ry Buy War Bonds 0-8-0 to pull my Chattanooga Express cars. Also will eventually get the Southern Trainmasters and E8s but I no longer place high price pre-orders.
Greg Houser posted:josef posted:The 0-6-0T. But surprise they added artist drawn smoke when it won't have smoke. Wonder how many will think it's also a smoker?
Put your glasses on!
I gotta get the lighted Fastrack for under the tree.
Really like the Friendship Train and will be getting that.
The 0-6-0T engines - I see 2 of those in my future to MU/Lash-up.
The sound boxcars and cattle cars (though I really just want the sound car - perhaps someone will be selling individually after they are released).
I like a few of the Milk Cars, the Christmas Story and Christmas Vacation boxcars.
Need time to digest it all.
-Greg
Thanks. I did miss that. It will be interesting to see how a fan driven smoke unit, boards, and speaker will fit.
Why are the ES44AC $50 less that they were in the 2019 v1 catalog. Non-powered are the same price in both catalogs. I wonder what they are removing from this batch the has resulted in a decrease in price.
Surefire posted:Whats the deal with the price on the E8's?
For the price of 2 powered/ 2 sound locomotives I get 2 powered, 1 with sound.
Really wish they would just add sound to each.
Surefire,
For years Lionel sold their AA units as one powered one non powered. I have the E8 PRR 5 Stripe version which was in this configuration. Never found that they could not pull anything I placed behind them. Oh by the way the list price was $999.99 just like these. Now Lionel is changing all their AA units as two powered units for the same $999.99. If both were powered and both had sound Lionel would raise the price to $1099.99. Just my guess. Still as they now come you are still ahead of how they were.
By the way I never missed not having sound in my non powered engine I don’t think you will ever notice it.
JohnB
What I like for purchase is immaterial at this point in life 
. What I like in terms of keeping the hobby alive is sets that will have street prices (such as from Nassau Hobbies, Charles Ro etc.) of under $225 and LionChief locos at under $200. Standard O freight cars with street prices in the $35 range street price (reduced details). They clearly are hearing the desire for more modestly priced equipment. There is really little to no competition at those price points, and this is from Lionel, the current and former high price provider to the hobby . Still a chunk of dough, but likely more affordable to today's families than the prices of Lionel equipment in the 1950s were to most families. Pleased to see it happening. Have one of the under $200 LC locos and while it doesn't have speed control, it's reasonable value for the price these days.
Things might be getting better. Catalog loaded quickly for me and all pages viewable.
DaveSlie posted:Mikado 4501 posted:I'm very curious about the auxiliary water tenders. Are those derived from the J3a Hudson's? Are they prototypical? I would've thought that they would've used the tooling from the old L3a Mohawk tenders.
The CNJ Baron SD40 set is quite nice, though. Hopefully this run of the SD40's retains the nice look of the kinematic pilots that the 2015 run did.
They are not correct. The tenders shown in the catalog are from the NYC Hudsons that were just released and are too short. The correct tender should come from a NYC Mohawk. A correct tender is in the works from another source.
Thanks Dave. I thought as much. Hopefully, the tenders will bare resemblance to something more like reality. Lionel should still have the tooling for the L3a Mohawks they did in the 90’s, unless they got destroyed and might go with new tooling.
If the latter’s the case, hopefully a LEGACY NYC L3a Mohawk with whistle steam would be inevitable.
Hopefully, as well, the new trailing truck part will later be available on the parts website for those who bought the 2016 Chessie T-1 since it’s the only one of the T-1 schemes that was not brought back this year despite now having a matching set of passenger cars AND a matching water tender in this catalog...I dunno.
I’m going for the “ Quillable Cow”! Can’t decide which road name.
It's a huge catalog with lots of items. I think I'll order one of the new "Beer Cars" and add the black roof Polar Express Hobo on Ski's observation car.
Nothing
I'm in for at least the scale PE hobo car.
Nothing. The Vision Line stuff is way too expensive and the O gauge stuff is kind of dumb. I haven't gotten anything "new" if a long time; I have gotten some real nice stuff on the "used" market at an affordable price that I am not afraid to run. I guess I'll just keep doing that.
This is one of the highlights IMO. If this set doesn't sell well I have no answers.
Always wanted a brass hybrid but that GS Vision price is daunting! I will think about that one some more. I may get the following:
120th Super chief Santa Fe set
Scale Snowflake set
Amtrak E8 - that paint scheme is great
MartyE posted:This is one of the highlights IMO. If this set doesn't sell well I have no answers.
I agree with MartyE except I'm a child of the 50's and I have all that original stuff and it's still great.
I couldn't resist the Chateau Martin boxcar to store all my "MILK" products. I just need to figure out how to work it in with my vineyard scene. The color is going to make it standout.
Wow, I just finished going through the catalog and my brain has received too much stimulation just now.
All I gotta say to sum up my thoughts is on the scale rolling stock. Stated, hidden uncoupler tabs baby. Bye bye thumb tacks.
I think I will pickup the Strasburg RR set, I'm all diesel and I am ready for a steam engine for a change.
But I will surely fancy that 120th Super Chief Santa Fe set in the catalog! Really tempting, but way out of my budget.
Paul Kallus posted:Fortunately for the old wallet and credit card - which is still smoking from the last catalog - I already have the former release of the Reading T1 - a very nice model BTW with rounded underside boiler. The only item I can foresee pre-ordering is the Polar Express Hobo Car, and am glad Lionel is offering it in both the older and newer car liveries. The Snowflake 0-6-0 set and Elf work-train are interesting and will require careful review before committing to a pre-order.
Paul, I like the hobo car, too. I have the original set from 2014 (black roof), and I think it’s great they still catalog stuff to go with it. But, I’m a little gun shy after the black roof RPO was such a color mismatch for the original set. Also, the cataloged black roof hobo car in this catalog has the lettering in the wrong place to match the rest of the set (the 2014 black roofs have the lettering above the windows). So, to work with the original set, the as-built car needs to match the catalog from a color perspective, but vary from a lettering standpoint. That’s a bit of a gamble on a $220 car.
The GS-1 is really talking to me. I hate that. I like the Pilot version of locos when offered, but, somehow, the brass ones do not appeal to me as much as the die-cast. Odd, as I love brass locos in general.
Anyway. I have wondered if the GS-1 would ever get known. Now - will it ever get made? I am tempted, probably (?) by a painted one.
The TOFC cars look good. The "Mason-Dixon" name is very familiar.
MartyE posted:This is one of the highlights IMO. If this set doesn't sell well I have no answers.
A fantastic offering for us Postwar lovers.
Only one thing is missing; Magne-Traction
DaveSlie posted:Mikado 4501 posted:I'm very curious about the auxiliary water tenders. Are those derived from the J3a Hudson's? Are they prototypical? I would've thought that they would've used the tooling from the old L3a Mohawk tenders.
The CNJ Baron SD40 set is quite nice, though. Hopefully this run of the SD40's retains the nice look of the kinematic pilots that the 2015 run did.
They are not correct. The tenders shown in the catalog are from the NYC Hudsons that were just released and are too short. The correct tender should come from a NYC Mohawk. A correct tender is in the works from another source.
Dave, I know nothing about the prototype and would like to learn more. But, the catalog indicates they are 12” long which actually seemed big to me. How big should they be? I might get an undecorated one for use with other stuff.
Saw it. Watching grass grow is more exciting.
gunrunnerjohn posted:Can't read the catalog, I'll wait until I get to the store and get a paper copy.
If you want to take a look at mine when I stop by tomorrow for that Reading engine, I’d be happy to do so! There are a couple great deals and some that make me cringe... although I may still end up ordering a Vision engine anyway.
- Matt
VinceL posted:Several people have posted about "downloading" the catalog. Are you actually trying to download it or just view it?
Past catalogs have included an option to download the catalog as a PDF file. But, for some reason this catalog does not offer a download option. The 2020 AF catalog has a download option, but the 2020 Big Book does not.
I created a PDF of the catalog by selecting all pages to print and when the printer selection panel appeared, I selected "Save as PDF". This was on a Windows 10 machine. YMMV.
Note the change in the columnar page comparing the three features of LC, LC+ and LC 2.0 . In the 2019 Big Book, there were four columns, the fourth being for Legacy. LC 2.0 offers very little less than Legacy. In fact it is comparable to original TMCC. My question: How much longer will Legacy live, if LC 2.0 is nearly comparable?
MartyE posted:This is one of the highlights IMO. If this set doesn't sell well I have no answers.
I think the MSRP will be one answer why it may not sell as well as desired. Even with street price discounts.
I just received my hard copy of the catalog in the mail. All I can say is it is dominated by the GS series of steam and Christmas items. I might preorder one of the CSX ES44AC units for the military. The Amtrak E8’s are still the top choice. The Coors beer cars are nice and hopefully the rotary gondolas come to fruition.
These are the locomotives I wanted to see but I guess I will have to wait:
Norfolk Southern SD70ACC Yellow cab #1800
Norfolk Southern ACC6M DC/AC Black cab #4002
Norfolk Southern AC446M Blue cabs #4000 & 40001
Canadian Pacific SD70ACU military units (all 5)
SCL Diesels (pretty much anything scale)
Goody posted:Note the change in the columnar page comparing the three features of LC, LC+ and LC 2.0 . In the 2019 Big Book, there were four columns, the fourth being for Legacy. LC 2.0 offers very little less than Legacy. In fact it is comparable to original TMCC. My question: How much longer will Legacy live, if LC 2.0 is nearly comparable?
It's not comparable IMO. 200 speed steps, quilling whistle, lighting effects, to name a few. Unless somehow LC+2.0 can do everything Legacy does now then it can't compete.
The Vision Express set is on my list... if one of the engines is $2k why not spend a few dollars extra and get the best of the vision stock car and reefer sets plus 2 - PS-1 sound boxcars and a cupola cam. Seems like a no brainer to me...
I’m tempted the look at the GS-4 too with the dynamo smoke but if its going to be the same hassle to load the smoke unit as the challenger and the big boy then I won’t bother... b/c I hate not being able to confirm whether I’m actually getting the fluid in correctly so I just don’t use the feature... guess they’ll be a wait and see.
Also in for the Wings of Angels cars and the new PS-4’s with 40’ trailers. Love that they come of with some new paint schemes. A big fan indeed!
Also love the PE hobo car... really glad someone mentioned that there was a paint match issue with the last new release as I also have the 2014 series...
Overall, I think the catalog was a success and find myself once again checking under the couch cushions for the answer!
gunrunnerjohn posted:josef posted:The 0-6-0T. But surprise they added artist drawn smoke when it won't have smoke. Wonder how many will think it's also a smoker?
It's in the 2019 Volume 2 Catalog, and it states it has fan driven smoke. If it comes without smoke, it won't be coming home with me. Hard to believe the additional roadnames in the current catalog would suddenly omit a pretty important feature to probably a majority of folks.
John,
Calm down, it says right in the new catalog that it has "fan driven smoke"! People need to learn to read instead of rumor!
SGP posted:I will probably go for the Reading coaches because I have been hoping Jersey Central/Reading cars get made correctly. It is hard to stomach that price though.
I almost regretted stepping up to the plate for the five car set of SGL Reading cars recently, but they were still way less than the new Lionel version.
I’m definitely in for the Preamble Express set. The pricing is terrific compared to buying two two-car sets of AFT cars.
The O-6-0T is still advertised with fan driven smoke. Why I didn’t order the PRR version before is beyond me. But I will now.
I love the Lionel Lines GS4 way more than I should considering the price. I may order it and passenger cars.
- Matt
BHalfway posted:
Also love the PE hobo car... really glad someone mentioned that there was a paint match issue with the last new release as I also have the 2014 series...
The paint mismatch was the RPO car only. The passenger cars matched perfectly.
Grampstrains posted:Big Jim posted:"Elf work-train are interesting and will require careful review before committing to a pre-order"
So there is one good example of what I mean about the pricing! The set breaks down to right at $50 per each little bitty car! Something that should sell for half of that! Someone at Lionel is getting rich!
According to your math, that would make the track, the remote and the elves free.
I was speaking of the "4-Pack" add on at $199.99.
Gotta say I'm disappointed. So that's probably a good thing for my bank account.
PA Anthracite posted:The PPLX coalporters (rotary gondolas) originally listed in 2016, V2 are on page 80, along with a bunch of other road names. Surprisingly, they are listed at the same prices from 2016 - 4 pack for $279 and 2 pack for $139. Still a bit steep. If I remember right, sometime last year there was a post about production issues in Eastern Europe regarding this run of cars.
On page 78, there are 3 packs of 2 bay hoppers listed for $279. While I'd love to have the Ontario & Western set, these hoppers aren't worth $93.33 each. Unfortunately, O&W freight cars are far and few between.
The SD40-2s are offered in 054 again......not everyone has the room for that radius.
Well then at what radius should the scale SD40-2 should turn on? A scale SD40-2 is generous to turn on 054 curve.
Canadian Pacific SD70ACU military units (all 5)
I figured it was too soon after reading the announcement of these to expect to see them in O Gauge. But in the back of my mind this morning I was hoping Lionel would prove me wrong. Please please please let’s see these in Vol. 2.
NS1975 posted:I just received my hard copy of the catalog in the mail...
You had mail delivered today? (I assume you don't live in the USA since Martin Luther King Day is a holiday for US postal carriers.)
MartyE posted:BHalfway posted:
Also love the PE hobo car... really glad someone mentioned that there was a paint match issue with the last new release as I also have the 2014 series...
The paint mismatch was the RPO car only. The passenger cars matched perfectly.
Marty, I don’t believe there have been any later released passenger cars for the 2014 set (black roof) beyond the 2019 RPO which didn’t match. I’m not sure which cars you are referring to which “matched perfectly”. Maybe the new cars matched something (the bi-polar perhaps?), but there haven’t been any new black roof cars since 2014 beyond the RPO. Colors aside, the 2020 hobo car won’t match the 2014 cars either unless they move the lettering above the windows.
I noted with interest the various trademark declarations of the various fallen-flag IP holders at the bottom of some pages. Conspicuously absent were Norfolk Southern and in particular, Union Pacific.
Curiouser and curiouser...
znlor v'yy trg n orre obkpne be gjb.
--PCJ
MartyE posted:This is one of the highlights IMO. If this set doesn't sell well I have no answers.
Absolutely!
Rider Sandman posted:Marty, I don’t believe there have been any later released passenger cars for the 2014 set (black roof) beyond the 2019 RPO which didn’t match. I’m not sure which cars you are referring to which “matched perfectly”. Maybe the new cars matched something (the bi-polar perhaps?), but there haven’t been any new black roof cars since 2014 beyond the RPO. Colors aside, the 2020 hobo car won’t match the 2014 cars either unless they move the lettering above the windows.
Sorry I missed the 2014 reference.
They have SD40 diesel-electric locomotives in this catalog, not the longer SD40-2s. These are true O scale sized.
Put up a series of shelves against a long wall. Then add straight track with 054 and 072 switches on the shelves. That way you can run all of the longer O scale items.
Andrew
GS-1 for me. Along with the SP stock express set and Golden State passenger set. Probably several more pieces. Have to put together a budget. A painful catalog if you’re into SP.
-Brian
Valpac posted:GS-1 for me. Along with the SP stock express set and Golden State passenger set. Probably several more pieces. Have to put together a budget. A painful catalog if you’re into SP.
-Brian
I am fortunate not being a SP fan. My savings would have had a hard hit. I really like that GS-1.
This is a huge catalog with a LOT of product. The overwhelming amount of fantasy and licensed offerings is simply staggering and bewildering. Sadly,I could find absolutely nothing of interest this time around.
Overall, I would say that Lionel came out with a very good catalog. A few observations follow.
Great to see Lionel has followed MTH's lead by making their AA E8s with both engines powered. Not sure why they didn't do so previously. My Lionel E8s with the single powered unit had real challenges pulling long passenger trains up inclines.
Absolutely outstanding that Lionel has made the pivot that so many of us have been clamoring for the last couple of years and returned to making their scale freight cars with diecast metal sprung trucks and couplers with hidden uncoupling tabs. I will now commence buying their scale freight cars again. I particularly like the Vision reefer 3-packs, the 50' flatcars with 20' trailers, the milk cars and the 2-bay hopper 3-packs.
Someone at Lionel must really like the Southern Pacific. I happen to myself, but Lionel went way overboard with the Southern Pacific. There were far too many Espee engines and passenger cars covering 22 pages at the beginning of the catalog. When I first started reading it, I thought I was reading a Southern Pacific catalog.
Pat
Big Jim posted:gunrunnerjohn posted:josef posted:The 0-6-0T. But surprise they added artist drawn smoke when it won't have smoke. Wonder how many will think it's also a smoker?
It's in the 2019 Volume 2 Catalog, and it states it has fan driven smoke. If it comes without smoke, it won't be coming home with me. Hard to believe the additional roadnames in the current catalog would suddenly omit a pretty important feature to probably a majority of folks.
John,
Calm down, it says right in the new catalog that it has "fan driven smoke"! People need to learn to read instead of rumor!
I overlooked the 0-6-0. That is almost certainly a Gonna Get - why? Good model, well-made. I have 2 early conventional ones, TRO, and they will go on the sales table (when I can find them....). Now that the 0-6-0 has command, e-couplers and is TMCC-accessible, it becomes useful to me. I never got around to upgrading the early one, as it was a pain and kept getting pushed back.
GS-1? Maybe. 0-6-0 - yes.
Grampstrains posted:Big Jim posted:Grampstrains posted:Big Jim posted:"Elf work-train are interesting and will require careful review before committing to a pre-order"
So there is one good example of what I mean about the pricing! The set breaks down to right at $50 per each little bitty car! Something that should sell for half of that! Someone at Lionel is getting rich!
According to your math, that would make the track, the remote and the elves free.
I was speaking of the "4-Pack" add on at $199.99.
Normal disconnect cars are priced at 44.95. So if you add 5 bucks a car for a PE royalty, it's the same as always.
When I count the cars behind the engine, I get 5, not 4:
Am I missing something?
-Dave
Pre-Ordered B6 steam switcher today - looks decent.
This Area 51 set might be cool especially with the alien green lighted Fasttrack.
I think the SP loco proliferation tells us a number of things, particularly after listening to Ryan Kunkle on the Notch 6 podcast. One, Lionel has lots of existing tooling that makes this variety of GS locos practical and cost effective Two, production numbers with BTO can be relatively modest, and it doesn't cost much more to make 6 related locos than 6 of the same loco. Three, they can cancel anything for which there are inadequate order numbers. Four, there will be some folks who buy 3, 5 or more locos who would only buy one if only one model variation was offered. Five, there is at least one new feature (some cylinder steam effect) never before done that will entice some folks who already own a related product.
Listen to the podcast if you are interested. A different perspective than we can have as individual consumers.
PS--Beautiful locos but I'm not in the market. More likely to order the Area 51 set .
I almost made it through the entire catalog until...scale Polar Express Flat Car with trailers....
Looks like a good day for Lima GS fans. Never on the N&W roster, so I have immunity.
D500 posted:GS-1? Maybe.
D, make sure you check out the crossheads before committing.
Pete
I like the new Reading-style passenger cars.
Just FYI, Ro just released their price list. Whole range of less detailed standard O gauge freight cars for $34.95 for those who are particularly price sensitive. Thomas set is $149.95 for those with small children or grandchildren or very young at heart.
Once I eliminated the things that I have no interest in:
Anything scale
Anything Christmas
Anything licensed
Anything Halloween
Anything Plug n Play
the choices became easy. PRR F3’s.
Jon 
The Conrail T-1. It's interesting that they numbered it 2101 and not 2102; if there's any truth to the concept or the paint scheme, the road number would imply that a Conrail livery was under consideration BEFORE the Chessie Steam Special, or at least before the 1979 Roundhouse fire. I guess only Ross Roland knows the truth!
I also see that they retooled the trailing truck, which is good. But they're still using Boxpok wheels that aren't right for a T-1. (These were criticized in the 2016 production run, I think they were a holdover from the Milwaukee S-3.) I guess if it's a fantasy paint scheme, it doesn't matter if the wheels aren't correct!
SPSF posted:Before I enlarged the Vision GS steamers page, I thought I was seeing a $999 price which would make sense because these engines are overdone
Did the same thing, I thought what a bargain!
Dave45681 posted:Hopefully someday (maybe that's today, I can't see the catalog yet
-Dave
That would be nice, tired of hearing "I'm the King of the North Pole" or whatever he says.
Lots of modern beginner toys. Nothing for the Fallen Flags era Modelers. Nothing new just like the last MTH catalog.
Still waiting for the flat spot cars and Wagon Top Cabooses arriving in the Summer.
Pardon my newbie ignorance as this is the 1st "modern" Lionel catalog I have ever seen.
What is the difference between these listed versions of already existing Lionchief sets and the versions that have been on the market for some time?
I'm specifically referring to things like the Blue Comet, Lehigh Valley, Santa Fe Super Chief, US Steam etc. They all seem to be still Lionchief and have not been "upgraded" to Lionchief Plus or Lionchief 2.0.
Again, so much has changed since I last participated in the hobby I'm trying to learn as much as possible about the "new world order" as quickly as possible.
Thanks everyone!
Put three things in my shopping cart so far. Still looking stuff over.
irish rifle posted:Absolutely outstanding that Lionel has made the pivot that so many of us have been clamoring for the last couple of years and returned to making their scale freight cars with diecast metal sprung trucks and couplers with hidden uncoupling tabs. I will now commence buying their scale freight cars again.
Pat
Are they resurrecting the good sprung trucks with hidden uncoupler tab?
IIRC all they are doing is getting rid of the thumbtack knuckle and making a tab activated knuckle using the same unsprung with plastic truck.
I hope you are right. Maybe one of the Lionel team will post what exactly they are making.
Well, after taking a much better look at things I know a few things I am not going to buy. I will have to mull things over a bit for things I am looking at, thinking about a few things, a Diesel believe it or not. Steam is always good for me, and there is a good amount of steam in this catalog.....well, not much if you slice out the VL stuff. Heck, I am okay with that. I do like the look of all the GS steamers, but I am passing because I am more of an east coast steamhead(I know, I know, I do have that UP engine, lol). See what else comes to my liking, will take a few days to get things going. I am actually looking at some freight cars I didn't think I would, but you know how that goes, can never have enough freight.
Nothing of interest for me.
Interesting on the Charles Ro email. He traditionally comes in later with his new catalog pricing. But glad to see it. Will be placing my orders soon!
Questions:
1. Is the B&O a unpopular railroad? I know the last catalog had an EM-1 and a load of bay windows cabooses. But why nothing for us B&O fans in this catalog? Would it be crime to make a B&O in vision? Or is this what people want 12 version of the same GS?
Not trying to be downer, but no B&O passenger cars, freight cars. I cant even get a B6 in B&O!!?? I would love that!
2. Can some one point me to a history of Lionel and FM train master? From my own research it seemed like a bit of a dud in real life, another example of tech to ahead of it's time. I think its cool that it has become a bit of a Lionel, pillar ( much too strong of a word but I cant think of a better one here.) I have my great uncles FM in Virginia paint from I am guessing the 1950's. But why is this such a famous Lionel model, I would love to know.
So over all I am little bummed.
peter allen 072518 posted:Questions:
1. Is the B&O a unpopular railroad? I know the last catalog had an EM-1 and a load of bay windows cabooses. But why nothing for us B&O fans in this catalog? Would it be crime to make a B&O in vision? Or is this what people want 12 version of the same GS?
Not trying to be downer, but no B&O passenger cars, freight cars. I cant even get a B6 in B&O!!?? I would love that!
2. Can some one point me to a history of Lionel and FM train master? From my own research it seemed like a bit of a dud in real life, another example of tech to ahead of it's time. I think its cool that it has become a bit of a Lionel, pillar ( much too strong of a word but I cant think of a better one here.) I have my great uncles FM in Virginia paint from I am guessing the 1950's. But why is this such a famous Lionel model, I would love to know.
So over all I am little bummed.
The one B&O item that I saw was the O gauge Chessie System B&O GP38-2 diesel locomotive.
Andrew
The Amtrak E8 A-A units in the early patch scheme are a must have. Love the transition pieces...having just received the Conrail GP35s in 2019. Hoping Lionel offers an Amtrak "rainbow" set to follow. I believe these E8s were in use on the Broadway Limited so the PC transition cars will work for now.
I am interested in the Boston & Maine milk and passenger train pulled by one E8. It looks like the milk car manufacture problem will be solved in 2020.
peter allen 072518 posted:Questions:
Can some one point me to a history of Lionel and FM train master? From my own research it seemed like a bit of a dud in real life, another example of tech to ahead of it's time. I think its cool that it has become a bit of a Lionel, pillar ( much too strong of a word but I cant think of a better one here.) I have my great uncles FM in Virginia paint from I am guessing the 1950's. But why is this such a famous Lionel model, I would love to know.
The Train Master was far from a dud. They served successfully on the railroads that ordered them, particularly the Virginian, which was 99.99% FM (The VGN had 1 GE 44 tonner...) The Illinois Central was impressed and planned on ordering 75 of them, but instability of Fairbanks Morse by way of a stockholder proxy fight discouraged the IC's ordering.
I think Lionel just saw the Train Master as a big, impressive diesel they could sell.
Rusty
ogaugeguy posted:NS1975 posted:I just received my hard copy of the catalog in the mail...
You had mail delivered today? (I assume you don't live in the USA since Martin Luther King Day is a holiday for US postal carriers.)
I ordered one from McMuffins Trains last week and it was delivered today by USPS.
Landsteiner posted:I think the SP loco proliferation tells us a number of things, particularly after listening to Ryan Kunkle on the Notch 6 podcast. One, Lionel has lots of existing tooling that makes this variety of GS locos practical and cost effective Two, production numbers with BTO can be relatively modest, and it doesn't cost much more to make 6 related locos than 6 of the same loco. Three, they can cancel anything for which there are inadequate order numbers. Four, there will be some folks who buy 3, 5 or more locos who would only buy one if only one model variation was offered. Five, there is at least one new feature (some cylinder steam effect) never before done that will entice some folks who already own a related product.
Listen to the podcast if you are interested. A different perspective than we can have as individual consumers.
PS--Beautiful locos but I'm not in the market. More likely to order the Area 51 set
I'm still scatching my head over this fixation with SP GS locos. Especially odd (at least as to the Daylights) given that they just did a bunch of Daylights recently. I don't recall ever seeing so many of the (basically) same engine from the same railroad occupying so much space in a catalog. It may make some sense for Lionel (if their plan was as Landsteiner outlined), but if so it seems a major aspect of the plan was to economize, and make a little look like a lot.
I have the first Legacy Daylight GS-4 (no.11127), which suits me fine. It's beautiful, and was a bargain compared to these new ones, and I see no reason at all to consider replacing it. Also, I have it with the 18" aluminum streamlined cars Lionel made, which have a perfect color match with the engine. Lionel has only made 21" plastic cars in the streamlined variety since then (too long for me), and perfect color match is doubtful. Given Lionel's current track record, you can't bet that those plastic steamlined cars recently made, or any that might be made in the future, are going to provide a color match with these new engines.
I believe the Milk Cars were one of maybe two items made in Romania...but only the hoppers made it out of there. The back story would be interesting to me as someone who enjoys the manufacturing challenges and stories behind the product.
Peter Allen, I am about to post a Lionel Columbian 18" passenger train for sale, if any interest please email me.
Scott
falconservice posted:peter allen 072518 posted:Questions:
1. Is the B&O a unpopular railroad? I know the last catalog had an EM-1 and a load of bay windows cabooses. But why nothing for us B&O fans in this catalog? Would it be crime to make a B&O in vision? Or is this what people want 12 version of the same GS?
Not trying to be downer, but no B&O passenger cars, freight cars. I cant even get a B6 in B&O!!?? I would love that!
2. Can some one point me to a history of Lionel and FM train master? From my own research it seemed like a bit of a dud in real life, another example of tech to ahead of it's time. I think its cool that it has become a bit of a Lionel, pillar ( much too strong of a word but I cant think of a better one here.) I have my great uncles FM in Virginia paint from I am guessing the 1950's. But why is this such a famous Lionel model, I would love to know.
So over all I am little bummed.
The one B&O item that I saw was the O gauge Chessie System B&O GP38-2 diesel locomotive.
Andrew
So not be a stickler but I am not counting the Chessie items, I want per-merger fallen flag B&O right from the heart of Mt.Clair!
After the Preamble Express run was over, the engine went back to UP. There are pictures of it in PE paint leading the Amtrak SF ZYPHER on the UP part of the route.
Rusty Traque posted:peter allen 072518 posted:Questions:
Can some one point me to a history of Lionel and FM train master? From my own research it seemed like a bit of a dud in real life, another example of tech to ahead of it's time. I think its cool that it has become a bit of a Lionel, pillar ( much too strong of a word but I cant think of a better one here.) I have my great uncles FM in Virginia paint from I am guessing the 1950's. But why is this such a famous Lionel model, I would love to know.
The Train Master was far from a dud. They served successfully on the railroads that ordered them, particularly the Virginian, which was 99.99% FM (The VGN had 1 GE 44 tonner...) The Illinois Central was impressed and planned on ordering 75 of them, but instability of Fairbanks Morse by way of a stockholder proxy fight discouraged the IC's ordering.
I think Lionel just saw the Train Master as a big, impressive diesel they could sell.
Rusty
Lionel said this in one of their catalogs:
"In 1953, Fairbanks-Morse began building its massive Train Master diesel locomotives to become powerful workhorses with universal use. The new units were promoted as providing 50 to 60 percent more power, 50 to 90 percent more continuous tractive effort, and 50 percent more weight on their wheels in a single unit as compared to any 1,500 to 1,600 horsepower, four-axle diesel locomotive in service at the time."
They go on to talk about railroads that ordered them, and how on some railroads they were used for both freight and passenger service. It appears that these large, imposing engines were a fairly big deal when they appeared, and it's not hard to understand why Lionel decided to make them.
I seem to recall that the weak part was the engine. FM had made engines for submarines during the war, and they had some unique characteristics, having been purpose-made for conditions in submarines, and the transition to use in railroad locomotives created some issues.
If they do the colors right on the #60 trolley I'll probably be in for that which would look cool next to my original #60 trolley. A few LED track sections for around the tree. I have my eye on the British Hall set and maybe a Christmas vacation box car.
peter allen 072518 posted:falconservice posted:peter allen 072518 posted:Questions:
1. Is the B&O a unpopular railroad? I know the last catalog had an EM-1 and a load of bay windows cabooses. But why nothing for us B&O fans in this catalog? Would it be crime to make a B&O in vision? Or is this what people want 12 version of the same GS?
Not trying to be downer, but no B&O passenger cars, freight cars. I cant even get a B6 in B&O!!?? I would love that!
2. Can some one point me to a history of Lionel and FM train master? From my own research it seemed like a bit of a dud in real life, another example of tech to ahead of it's time. I think its cool that it has become a bit of a Lionel, pillar ( much too strong of a word but I cant think of a better one here.) I have my great uncles FM in Virginia paint from I am guessing the 1950's. But why is this such a famous Lionel model, I would love to know.
So over all I am little bummed.
The one B&O item that I saw was the O gauge Chessie System B&O GP38-2 diesel locomotive.
Andrew
So not be a stickler but I am not counting the Chessie items, I want per-merger fallen flag B&O right from the heart of Mt.Clair!
The B&O ACF Center Flow 3-bay cylindrical hoppers are cars that they have not had produced for O scale
The B&O PS-2 2-bay covered hoppers have not yet been made.
The P-S 60' single-door box cars were not offered in B&O yet.
Andrew
I have to get all 4 of the Chessie System C&O covered gondolas.
Andrew
Like all the new Sp Gs Legacy and Vision Line engines with the new features; hope to get one.
Also I don't understand the complaining about the legacy and vision line prices. All of the Vision Line Big Boys sold for over 2,000.00 (gone) and Sunset 3RD Rail equivalent large steam engines sell for 1800.00 + and they sell out.
Just my 2 cents
I like all of the Vision GS class engines, especially the GS-1 and GS-4 no. 4439. I also like the Blue Mountain & Reading T1. However, I can't afford any of them.
The B6sb was a little interesting since I model the Pennsy, but I would only use the engine in my engine maintenance facility, which first of all isn't built yet and second of all is shaping up to be quite small. Additionally, I know for a fact that it will come in with a banshee whistle, and I already have the Legacy H10 which has the same whistle.
B&M E8 passenger set. Too cool!
Grampstrains posted:ogaugeguy posted:NS1975 posted:I just received my hard copy of the catalog in the mail...
You had mail delivered today? (I assume you don't live in the USA since Martin Luther King Day is a holiday for US postal carriers.)
I gt mail today also. It all depends on where you buy.
I don't know what difference it makes where you buy, but if you got mail today you either don't live in the US or it was Saturday's mail. No mail was delivered in the US today due to a postal holiday!
With all four of my grandparents from Italy, the Friendship train with the "Viva L'Italia" look good to me!
Nothing of interest. 200 pages of nothing.
NYC E 8's.Vision stock sets NYC web cam cabooses,GN pulpwood cars trolleys,Refrigerator cars with ice steam.. American freedom train add on cars. Freedom train auxiliary tender, Disappointed vista dome web cam NYC is 21 not 18 inch. Oh well.
There’s lots I like:
the GS4 freight set, the unskirted daylight GS4. The golden state cars, the PRR run through 2 pls, the VL reefers, & stock cars. The CNJ sd40’s including the red Barron set. The PRR B6 with the Atlantic tender. The beer box cars, the Amtrak & southern E8’s.
obviosly I’m not ordering all or even 1/2 of that but I love this catalog. Tough choices
Train Nut posted:Grampstrains posted:ogaugeguy posted:NS1975 posted:I just received my hard copy of the catalog in the mail...
You had mail delivered today? (I assume you don't live in the USA since Martin Luther King Day is a holiday for US postal carriers.)
I gt mail today also. It all depends on where you buy.
I don't know what difference it makes where you buy, but if you got mail today you either don't live in the US or it was Saturday's mail. No mail was delivered in the US today due to a postal holiday!
It was sent via USPS 2-Day Priority Mail. Checked the tracking and here is what it said, "Your item was delivered in or at the mailbox at 2:29 pm on January 20, 2020"
Grampstrains posted:Big Jim posted:Grampstrains posted:Big Jim posted:"Elf work-train are interesting and will require careful review before committing to a pre-order"
So there is one good example of what I mean about the pricing! The set breaks down to right at $50 per each little bitty car! Something that should sell for half of that! Someone at Lionel is getting rich!
According to your math, that would make the track, the remote and the elves free.
I was speaking of the "4-Pack" add on at $199.99.
Normal disconnect cars are priced at 44.95. So if you add 5 bucks a car for a PE royalty, it's the same as always.
Still too much for what little you get.
This catalog is, as always, quite interesting. That said, it has by far the fewest items of interest for me that I can recall . Ever. To each his own, of course.
1. Odd heavy emphasis on big steam, especially the GS series. I don’t recall a catalog doing that before. Since I use 036 Fastrak, none of the 054 items are of any use to me.
2. I like LC+ because I run straight conventional. There are mighty few new offerings in that line this time out, and none that appeal to me.
3. Lionel’s emphasis on branded cross-marketing continues apace. Since I like real RR offerings, that leaves me out, too. I will get the Christmas Story car since I have all the others (my wife is a CS fanatic).
4. About all I see is a BN boxcar and a GN pulpwood car. Maybe a Santa Fe TOFC.
So, I save some money this time around. I have several expensive items ordered from the last catalog (2019-2), so it should work out well.
Enjoy your trains.
Dave45681 posted:Grampstrains posted:Big Jim posted:I was speaking of the "4-Pack" add on at $199.99.
Normal disconnect cars are priced at 44.95. So if you add 5 bucks a car for a PE royalty, it's the same as always.
When I count the cars behind the engine, I get 5, not 4:
Am I missing something?
-Dave
Yes you are! Top of the next page!
NS1975 posted:Train Nut posted:I don't know what difference it makes where you buy, but if you got mail today you either don't live in the US or it was Saturday's mail. No mail was delivered in the US today due to a postal holiday!It was sent via USPS 2-Day Priority Mail. Checked the tracking and here is what it said, "Your item was delivered in or at the mailbox at 2:29 pm on January 20, 2020"
It’s good to see the USPS make a valid attempt to compete with FedEx, UPS, and Amazon.
This is what is on my “Maybe Bucket List”….. I also need to talk to my local train shop for their advice.
Gary
Lots of interesting stuff and whole lot of what the heck is that!?
I love the Reading and Conrail. I have an older Reading T1 and my first mth unit was a Conrail dash-7, but even if you roll in the fallen flag theory - something about that engine screams this is not a T1!! I don't know if its the wheels or not, but the front end just looks wrong to me somehow.
I can't unerstand why Lionchief still is offered when LC+ and now lc2.0 is some much better. I like the area 51 train, but I just don't want another lc engine, even with the light up track.
As to the Christmas light up track, its pretty cool, but massively expensive. And why does the only set it comes with have the cheapest possible - basically disposable - starter set steamer? You would think an advance feature like that would be available in more than one set and certainly in a set with an engine would be at least lc+ and better quality than that. I really like the Strasburg set, but again don't like the lc only control system.
The picture below was posted in another thread by @geysergazer
Below is an image from another thread about this catalog.
While the pictures are at different angles, the front end is very different. Imho, the catalog image doesn't look like a Reading t1. The driver are wrong, and those high number boards are really wrong.
BobbyD posted:irish rifle posted:Absolutely outstanding that Lionel has made the pivot that so many of us have been clamoring for the last couple of years and returned to making their scale freight cars with diecast metal sprung trucks and couplers with hidden uncoupling tabs. I will now commence buying their scale freight cars again.
Pat
Are they resurrecting the good sprung trucks with hidden uncoupler tab?
IIRC all they are doing is getting rid of the thumbtack knuckle and making a tab activated knuckle using the same unsprung with plastic truck.
I hope you are right. Maybe one of the Lionel team will post what exactly they are making.
What I indicated was written in pp. 40-41 in the catalog. The language is not as precise in subsequent pages where there are scale freight cars. I will confirm with Ryan at the Amherst Train Show this weekend.
Pat
Train Nut posted:Grampstrains posted:ogaugeguy posted:NS1975 posted:I just received my hard copy of the catalog in the mail...
You had mail delivered today? (I assume you don't live in the USA since Martin Luther King Day is a holiday for US postal carriers.)
I gt mail today also. It all depends on where you buy.
I don't know what difference it makes where you buy, but if you got mail today you either don't live in the US or it was Saturday's mail. No mail was delivered in the US today due to a postal holiday!
We got mail today as well. In select Markets Amazon has subsidized the cost of delivery to keep the delivery of their packages on-time. My postal carrier chooses to work Sundays and Holidays because the pay is good. Mostly it’s Amazon packages, but if the mail is sorted, he brings it along. Again, only in select markets.
I'll be putting in for the Santa Fe Berkshire # 4101. Do I need it? No...Do I want it...yes.
John
Has to be the Vision Line GS series, specifically the GS-1s.
To me, this is a great catalog on Lionel's part. It's going to cost me several large notes.
The GS series, SP black TrainMaster, Area 51, Star Trek, new Halloween, the new Preamble Express, the "Friendship Trains", and a dozen other items will give my credit card a work-out.
Good stuff, Lionel.
Pingman posted:The Southern E-8 caught my attention:
At one time did the SOU connect a steam whistle to a steam generator of an E unit? That would be intetesting to model. And it a picture about it in TRAINS.
breezinup posted:Rusty Traque posted:peter allen 072518 posted:Questions:
Can some one point me to a history of Lionel and FM train master? From my own research it seemed like a bit of a dud in real life, another example of tech to ahead of it's time. I think its cool that it has become a bit of a Lionel, pillar ( much too strong of a word but I cant think of a better one here.) I have my great uncles FM in Virginia paint from I am guessing the 1950's. But why is this such a famous Lionel model, I would love to know.
The Train Master was far from a dud. They served successfully on the railroads that ordered them, particularly the Virginian, which was 99.99% FM (The VGN had 1 GE 44 tonner...) The Illinois Central was impressed and planned on ordering 75 of them, but instability of Fairbanks Morse by way of a stockholder proxy fight discouraged the IC's ordering.
I think Lionel just saw the Train Master as a big, impressive diesel they could sell.
Rusty
Lionel said this in one of their catalogs:
"In 1953, Fairbanks-Morse began building its massive Train Master diesel locomotives to become powerful workhorses with universal use. The new units were promoted as providing 50 to 60 percent more power, 50 to 90 percent more continuous tractive effort, and 50 percent more weight on their wheels in a single unit as compared to any 1,500 to 1,600 horsepower, four-axle diesel locomotive in service at the time."
They go on to talk about railroads that ordered them, and how on some railroads they were used for both freight and passenger service. It appears that these large, imposing engines were a fairly big deal when they appeared, and it's not hard to understand why Lionel decided to make them.
I seem to recall that the weak part was the engine. FM had made engines for submarines during the war, and they had some unique characteristics, having been purpose-made for conditions in submarines, and the transition to use in railroad locomotives created some issues.
While I know some people question the source https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FM_H-24-66 shows only 107 units build. The entry also references various mechanical issues. Perhaps Dud is a strong word to use. But for a train that was somewhat obscure I feel like the Lionel model had made this engine much more popular than it was in real life. I think the answer of, IT was big and different may be as good as I am going to get but I think I can live with that. Thank you much!
And I was mistake there is a single B&O* entry, a milk car. * Again not counting Chessie system.
"Whadaya like?"
Being a fan of horses, I really appreciate the E8 Frisco AA set, especially unit 2006. She graces the name "Traveller," Lee's famous Civil War mount.
Of course, the Area 51 lighted track set, mechanical reefer and radioactive flat have my attention as well.
I will wait for a dealer to break up a "Star Trek" set, only interested in the diesel.
The Frisco E units could pull previous TEXAS SPECIAL cars.
jhz563 posted:
While the pictures are at different angles, the front end is very different. Imho, the catalog image doesn't look like a Reading t1. The driver are wrong, and those high number boards are really wrong.
Yes the driving wheels aren't accurate. They are Boxpok drivers, but a different pattern than what was used on the T1's. They might also be a tad larger than the prototype. This was discussed back when Lionel tooled this loco in 2016. We believe the drivers were re-used from the Lionel Milwaukee S-3. Kind of like putting Buick wheel covers on an Oldsmobile. Not horrible, but a little off-putting and unexpected.
The flying number boards correspond to how the T1 was outfitted as the Chessie Steam Special. It's an Advisory Mechanical Committee (AMC) styling feature also seen on NKP, PM, and C&O Berkshires. As I posted earlier, if it's true that Conrail intended to use the 2101 for an excursion program, that might have been AFTER the Chessie was done with it. If the roundhouse fire hadn't happened, 2101 might have been repainted into the Conrail scheme circa 1981, and looked very much like this!
I doubt that I'll buy it, but the Conrail T1 was pretty much my favorite piece in the whole catalog!
Conrail went as far as having artist mockups made for the T-1, tender, and Aux tender. They show the number boards as seen in the catalog.
Jon
So - what are everyone's thoughts on the Lionmaster Allegheny? Not much background in the catalogue - is this a re-run of the K line version? If yes will it fit size wise with the other Lionmaster offerings which all seem to be built to the same scale? Thanks
The Frisco E8's will be the first of my orders. Been requesting these for years. Great Paint scheme. GS1 #708 will be next as it is hard to get T&NO engines. Just wish they had cheated a little and did the T&NO 700-704 with the 160-C4 tender. I like that tender best and with "Southern Pacific Lines" on the tender it would have pulled the Sunset and Argonaut east of El Paso from 1930 to 1947, plus many freights during WWII. May have the buy #4470 or 71 and have it lettered and numbered. Hate to do that to such a expensive engine but probably the closest I will ever come for this engine. I like the GS4 4449 "SPL" and no white walls as those were dropped pretty quick. Have a picture of 4449 in 1941 just like Lionels. I also like the GS5 4459 but the white walls kill it. I personally think that is an error as I have never seen a GS with just Southern Pacific on the tender with white walls. Except in later excursion service. I will get the SP Train masters in black widow as they did pull freight around El Paso for a time before they got sent to SF for cummuter service.
peter allen 072518 posted:While I know some people question the source https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FM_H-24-66 shows only 107 units build. The entry also references various mechanical issues. Perhaps Dud is a strong word to use. But for a train that was somewhat obscure I feel like the Lionel model had made this engine much more popular than it was in real life. I think the answer of, IT was big and different may be as good as I am going to get but I think I can live with that. Thank you much!
And I was mistake there is a single B&O* entry, a milk car. * Again not counting Chessie system.
Well, the Train Master was really was no less obscure than Lionel's non-scale proportioned E33 Rectifier (12 units,) only purchased by the Virginian, or the EP5 (10 units,) only purchased by the New Haven. Had Lionel done an SD7 or 9 instead, most folks back then wouldn't see it as much different than Lionel's GP9.
The railfan community back then wasn't as large or sophisticated as it is today and was still generally more interested in steam than diesel or electrics. I'd wager most folks got their first exposure to the TM, E33 and EP5 locomotives through the Lionel catalogs.
I know I did.
Rusty
If your a SOUTHERN PACIFIC FAN you will need to make a loan.
GG1GUYY
Interested to see what private runs will be offered by the dealers and clubs this time around. There were a ton for last year's catalog.
Pat
irish rifle posted:Interested to see what private runs will be offered by the dealers and clubs this time around. There were a ton for last year's catalog.
Pat
Hmmm. If only I knew a guy that does this for a club.
If you know the right website, there's 2 loco's already posted. Once we send an eblast to our members, I'll share here … unless someone beats me to it.
Stu
https://www.metca.org/store.html
I might have bought the "Fake News" stand had it been half that price.
NOT LionelLLC posted:irish rifle posted:Interested to see what private runs will be offered by the dealers and clubs this time around. There were a ton for last year's catalog.
Pat
Hmmm. If only I knew a guy that does this for a club.
If you know the right website, there's 2 loco's already posted. Once we send an eblast to our members, I'll share here … unless someone beats me to it.
Stu
https://www.metca.org/store.html
The METCA website has been updated, removed previous comment regarding spelling. GregM 1/30/2020.
Still no Tuscan Red PRR F3s although I do think the Wabash F3s are very nice.
mike w posted:So - what are everyone's thoughts on the Lionmaster Allegheny? Not much background in the catalogue - is this a re-run of the K line version? If yes will it fit size wise with the other Lionmaster offerings which all seem to be built to the same scale? Thanks
I would say yes that the Alleghenys and Blue Ridge are from old K-line tooling because when have you ever seen manufacture make new tooling and not bump up the price than other old tooling products. Now my thoughts about it are very excited about this first-time release. I think it's cool that Lionel is bringing back Lionmaster series because right when Lionel started to put legacy in them they quit the series altogether. The CPO of my railroad my not think this is cool, in the sense of price, but I think it's cool overall. Scale wise I would figure that these engines would be no different compared to other former or new Lionmaster engines.
Does anyone buy the Vision Line items for the new effects/features that only models in the Vision Line have?
The reciprocating cylinder steam effect is new. The force coupler was advertised at least once before - although I don't remember any talk about it on the forum or magazine reviews, so if its really neat that'd be a selling point for the GS models. Vision Line also gives dual sound systems. The kinematic drawbar is not new, yet Lionel only seems to use it very sparingly.
At some point we'll have to discuss all the new features in a separate topic.
Blue Streak posted:GS1 #708 will be next as it is hard to get T&NO engines. Just wish they had cheated a little and did the T&NO 700-704 with the 160-C4 tender. I like that tender best and with "Southern Pacific Lines" on the tender it would have pulled the Sunset and Argonaut east of El Paso from 1930 to 1947, plus many freights during WWII. May have the buy #4470 or 71 and have it lettered and numbered. Hate to do that to such a expensive engine but probably the closest I will ever come for this engine.
Not doing the GS-1 with the 160-C tender and small "Southern Pacific Lines" was a big miss. Especially since all the other classes are offered in both early and late lettering. But even had they done it that way I would still have passed because they used the Lima chassis instead of the proper Baldwin chassis or at least something that was close. (hint: crossheads) For those not familiar with these engines this 50 year model of mine is correct. There are photos of the GS-1 on the net but we aren't allowed to post those.
Proposed Lionel model on the GS-4 chassis.
Too bad as the GS-1 is on my list of 5 best looking Northerns.
Pete
peter allen 072518 posted:Questions:
2. Can some one point me to a history of Lionel and FM train master? From my own research it seemed like a bit of a dud in real life, another example of tech to ahead of it's time. I think its cool that it has become a bit of a Lionel, pillar ( much too strong of a word but I cant think of a better one here.) I have my great uncles FM in Virginia paint from I am guessing the 1950's. But why is this such a famous Lionel model, I would love to know.
Peter,
Try to find a copy of "TRAIN MASTER - The Most Useful Locomotive Ever Built"
I find it interesting that Lionel is doing demonstrators TM-3 & TM-4.
Norton posted:Blue Streak posted:GS1 #708 will be next as it is hard to get T&NO engines. Just wish they had cheated a little and did the T&NO 700-704 with the 160-C4 tender. I like that tender best and with "Southern Pacific Lines" on the tender it would have pulled the Sunset and Argonaut east of El Paso from 1930 to 1947, plus many freights during WWII. May have the buy #4470 or 71 and have it lettered and numbered. Hate to do that to such a expensive engine but probably the closest I will ever come for this engine.
Not doing the GS-1 with the 160-C tender and small "Southern Pacific Lines" was a big miss. Especially since all the other classes are offered in both early and late lettering. But even had they done it that way I would still have passed because they used the Lima chassis instead of the proper Baldwin chassis or at least something that was close. (hint: crossheads) For those not familiar with these engines this 50 year model of mine is correct. There are photos of the GS-1 on the net but we aren't allowed to post those.
Pete
Thanks for pointing that out Pete, it shouldn't be a "Laird" style cross head,, but should be a Alligator type on the GS-1.
That there will be the deciding factor for not ordering a GS-1 loco. If I'm going to be spending $2k on a Brass-Hybrid locomotive such as that simple detail should be correct. Just saying.
Maybe Lionel could make this small correction or statement that it will be corrected before the preorder deadline
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
They also could have offered the GS-1 as a as delivered model with the Green Boiler...
Bruk posted:Norton posted:Blue Streak posted:GS1 #708 will be next as it is hard to get T&NO engines. Just wish they had cheated a little and did the T&NO 700-704 with the 160-C4 tender. I like that tender best and with "Southern Pacific Lines" on the tender it would have pulled the Sunset and Argonaut east of El Paso from 1930 to 1947, plus many freights during WWII. May have the buy #4470 or 71 and have it lettered and numbered. Hate to do that to such a expensive engine but probably the closest I will ever come for this engine.
Not doing the GS-1 with the 160-C tender and small "Southern Pacific Lines" was a big miss. Especially since all the other classes are offered in both early and late lettering. But even had they done it that way I would still have passed because they used the Lima chassis instead of the proper Baldwin chassis or at least something that was close. (hint: crossheads) For those not familiar with these engines this 50 year model of mine is correct. There are photos of the GS-1 on the net but we aren't allowed to post those.
Pete
Thanks for pointing that out Pete, it shouldn't be a "Laird" style cross head,, but should be a Alligator type on the GS-1.
That there will be the deciding factor for not ordering a GS-1 loco. If I'm going to be spending $2k on a Brass-Hybrid locomotive such as that simple detail should be correct. Just saying.
Maybe Lionel could make this small correction or statement that it will be corrected before the preorder deadline
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
They also could have offered the GS-1 as a as delivered model with the Green Boiler...
The road numbers we chose were rebuilt with the later crosshead design. There are photos of each readily available, I just can't post them here due to forum rules.
Ryan gave more info on this on the Notch 6 podcast he did with Derek. I suggest you listen to that discussion as it clears up decisions made.
We put a ton of work into the GS design over the past year and a half.
Dave Olson posted:Bruk posted:Norton posted:Blue Streak posted:GS1 #708 will be next as it is hard to get T&NO engines. Just wish they had cheated a little and did the T&NO 700-704 with the 160-C4 tender. I like that tender best and with "Southern Pacific Lines" on the tender it would have pulled the Sunset and Argonaut east of El Paso from 1930 to 1947, plus many freights during WWII. May have the buy #4470 or 71 and have it lettered and numbered. Hate to do that to such a expensive engine but probably the closest I will ever come for this engine.
Not doing the GS-1 with the 160-C tender and small "Southern Pacific Lines" was a big miss. Especially since all the other classes are offered in both early and late lettering. But even had they done it that way I would still have passed because they used the Lima chassis instead of the proper Baldwin chassis or at least something that was close. (hint: crossheads) For those not familiar with these engines this 50 year model of mine is correct. There are photos of the GS-1 on the net but we aren't allowed to post those.
Pete
Thanks for pointing that out Pete, it shouldn't be a "Laird" style cross head,, but should be a Alligator type on the GS-1.
That there will be the deciding factor for not ordering a GS-1 loco. If I'm going to be spending $2k on a Brass-Hybrid locomotive such as that simple detail should be correct. Just saying.
Maybe Lionel could make this small correction or statement that it will be corrected before the preorder deadline
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
They also could have offered the GS-1 as a as delivered model with the Green Boiler...
The road numbers we chose were rebuilt with the later crosshead design. There are photos of each readily available, I just can't post them here due to forum rules.
Ryan gave more info on this on the Notch 6 podcast he did with Derek. I suggest you listen to that discussion as it clears up decisions made.
We put a ton of work into the GS design over the past year and a half.
Thanks for clarifying that Dave. After looking deeper into google images I found a GS-1 with the Laird style. It did not appear right away during a brief search.
You guys at Lionel do great work. I understand the difficulty's of manufacturing and dealing with the consumer. A lot of us are used to the “old Lionel” that built “toy trains” and aren’t used to the items being accurate to the prototypes.
I’m interested in how you guys are managing to operate the reciprocating cylinder steam effect and I hope you guys can give us a demo on how it functions like you did with the VL Niagara. That was insight full.
One thing I think that they should offer(at least for the Domed passenger cars) is without the camera. I know that cabooses are a dime a dozen with or without, but the dome cars are only with. Maybe Volume 2 @Dave Olson as a suggestion?
TrainMan1225 posted:I like all of the Vision GS class engines, especially the GS-1 and GS-4 no. 4439. I also like the Blue Mountain & Reading T1. However, I can't afford any of them.
The B6sb was a little interesting since I model the Pennsy, but I would only use the engine in my engine maintenance facility, which first of all isn't built yet and second of all is shaping up to be quite small. Additionally, I know for a fact that it will come in with a banshee whistle, and I already have the Legacy H10 which has the same whistle.
Nick,
I have both a H10 and a B6 from the previous runs and I can assure you the B6 whistle is unique in fact it will loosen your fillings. The B6 IMHO is the best Legacy engine I own great sound, smoke, and can run all day at speed step 1. Plus it is priced right.
JohnB
Big Jim posted:
I find it interesting that Lionel is doing demonstrators TM-3 & TM-4.
Since they did TM-1 and TM-2 already I like it better than constantly re-running the same engine numbers. Hopefully they will retire the FM Demonstrator paint scheme after this run of engines.
IIRC this Lionel tool has the high end walkways so it worked well when they made the Wabash model of it.
Rusty Traque posted:peter allen 072518 posted:While I know some people question the source https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FM_H-24-66 shows only 107 units build. The entry also references various mechanical issues. Perhaps Dud is a strong word to use. But for a train that was somewhat obscure I feel like the Lionel model had made this engine much more popular than it was in real life. I think the answer of, IT was big and different may be as good as I am going to get but I think I can live with that. Thank you much!
Well, the Train Master was really was no less obscure than Lionel's non-scale proportioned E33 Rectifier (12 units,) only purchased by the Virginian, or the EP5 (10 units,) only purchased by the New Haven. Had Lionel done an SD7 or 9 instead, most folks back then wouldn't see it as much different than Lionel's GP9.
The railfan community back then wasn't as large or sophisticated as it is today and was still generally more interested in steam than diesel or electrics. I'd wager most folks got their first exposure to the TM, E33 and EP5 locomotives through the Lionel catalogs.
I'll venture a guess that Lionel chose the F-M TrainMaster because (1) it was pretty much the most powerful single-unit road switcher available to the railroads in 1954; (2) It was long, so it made an impressive show, and could command a premium price; (3) most importantly, unlike geeps, Alco RS-3, etc., the long hood was wide enough to acommodate a second Pullmor motor! Dual motors was a feature folks had come to associate with Lionel's premium diesels. It wasn't until the can motor era that we got dual-motored Rectifiers and GP9s.
The EP-5 made its real-life debut a year later, in 1955. It was also impressively long, although it lacked the heft of the FM's die-cast fuel tank. Lionel imaginatively lettered it for Great Northern and the Milwaukee Road, broadening its appeal. Why the EP-5 never got a second motor, I don't know. The shell is certainly wide enough; it would seem like a no-brainer to use motors, power trucks, and pilots from the 2383.
Someday I'll probably add an FM to my collection. I happen to like the newer tooling with the blind middle axle and added detail. Even on sharp curves, I think it looks better than the postwar design, with its inside axle hanging out in the breeze. My $.02.
GG1GUYY posted:If your a SOUTHERN PACIFIC FAN you will need to make a loan.
GG1GUYY
More like mortgage your home.
Big Jim posted:peter allen 072518 posted:Questions:
2. Can some one point me to a history of Lionel and FM train master? From my own research it seemed like a bit of a dud in real life, another example of tech to ahead of it's time. I think its cool that it has become a bit of a Lionel, pillar ( much too strong of a word but I cant think of a better one here.) I have my great uncles FM in Virginia paint from I am guessing the 1950's. But why is this such a famous Lionel model, I would love to know.
Peter,
Try to find a copy of "TRAIN MASTER - The Most Useful Locomotive Ever Built"
I find it interesting that Lionel is doing demonstrators TM-3 & TM-4.
They made this before in their Century Club II series for special order. MTH made this scheme, too.
Well I'd like a GS1 Brass Hybrid but at $2k it's waaay out of what I can spend. I'll make do with my MTH Premier SP GS4 and GS6.
I'll probably order 2 of the 50' flat cars with trailers, one Santa Fe and one DT&I/Ford. I already pre-ordered a MTH Railking Scale Santa Fe FM H10-44 from their 2020 V.1 catalog, so that's enough stuff for the year.
Yes Dave is correct about the GS1's. The numbers they used are the rebuilt ones with the later Cross heads and such. I just wished they would do a "what if" version of the earlier T&NO road numbers 700-703 with the 160- C4 tender and "Southern pacific Lines". This would be more plausible than some of the other paint schemes I have seen.
I noted that the 0-6-0T's are advertised with LionChief2.0Plus - which has desirable features including speed control, however the 0-6-0T included with the PE Elf train is listed as LionChief, yet the set commands a premium price. Do I understand this right? Why not include the PE 0-6-0T with Lionchief2.0Plus? I won't consider it unless the engine has speed control.
Ted S posted:Rusty Traque posted:peter allen 072518 posted:While I know some people question the source https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FM_H-24-66 shows only 107 units build. The entry also references various mechanical issues. Perhaps Dud is a strong word to use. But for a train that was somewhat obscure I feel like the Lionel model had made this engine much more popular than it was in real life. I think the answer of, IT was big and different may be as good as I am going to get but I think I can live with that. Thank you much!
Well, the Train Master was really was no less obscure than Lionel's non-scale proportioned E33 Rectifier (12 units,) only purchased by the Virginian, or the EP5 (10 units,) only purchased by the New Haven. Had Lionel done an SD7 or 9 instead, most folks back then wouldn't see it as much different than Lionel's GP9.
The railfan community back then wasn't as large or sophisticated as it is today and was still generally more interested in steam than diesel or electrics. I'd wager most folks got their first exposure to the TM, E33 and EP5 locomotives through the Lionel catalogs.
I'll venture a guess that Lionel chose the F-M TrainMaster because (1) it was pretty much the most powerful single-unit road switcher available to the railroads in 1954; (2) It was long, so it made an impressive show, and could command a premium price; (3) most importantly, unlike geeps, Alco RS-3, etc., the long hood was wide enough to acommodate a second Pullmor motor! Dual motors was something folks had come to associate with Lionel's premium diesels. It wasn't until the can motor era that we got dual-motored Rectifiers and GP9s.
The EP-5 made its real-life debut a year later in 1955. It was also impressively long, although it lacked the heft of the FM's die-cast fuel tank. Lionel imaginatively lettered it for Great Northern and the Milwaukee Road, broadening its appeal. Why the EP-5 never got a second motor, I don't know. The shell is certainly wide enough; it seems like a no-brainer to use motors, power trucks, and pilots from the 2383.
Someday I'll probably add an FM to my collection. I happen to like the newer tooling with the blind middle axle and added detail. Even on sharp curves, I think it looks better than the postwar design, with its inside axle hanging out in the breeze. My $.02.
I think it is interesting that it is noted in the details "Mars light with short hood" but there is nothing said on the models themselves. Anyone know which is which(not that I'm ordering one), just curious.
I probably won't buy anything. Lot's of stuff I would like but the prices are through the roof. Looks to me a lot of people are being driven out of the hobby.
jhz563 posted:I can't understand why Lionchief still is offered when LC+ and now lc2.0 is some much better. I like the area 51 train, but I just don't want another lc engine, even with the light up track.
I agree TOTALLY! I think Lionel is losing many sales to those of us with conventional layouts by not putting LC+ in it's basic sets & single-sale locos, or at LEAST making the LC locos upgradeable to LC+. I would have likely gotten the Scooby-Doo, Hot Wheels or current Area 51 sets if this were true.
I like the GS1 and will order, anyone thinking about the 125th annerversey set? Over 3K for the whole set
I'm excited about the quillable moo sound cattle car, seems like that would be a lot of fun. I'll also be getting 1-2 50' flat cars with trailers, some very cool paint schemes for this run. Finally, I am not a Pennsy person, but the FM set seems like a deal when looking at the pricing of individual items and overall set price.
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