I'm dying to see this assembly.

  Fluid dynamics causing lock up could be delivering some interesting pressures and at high impeller speed, shocks too. Enough to blow the tube out of their seats or crack plastic? Maybe. High speed could means lots of little shocks.  You can drive a nail with a finger if you tap on it hard enough, a million times.

Tight or sealed fit on the impeller blades to housing? A gear pump? diaphram..no it reverses electrically,...

Is the nozzles jetting the limiter on drops or the pump? A check valve?....a clog

 If there are debris in the final delivery plumbing, viscosity could still be a factor in the pressure of debris blocking the flow, maybe to the point of sealing, and lower visc. could have lower pressure still allowing flow around any gap.

I can think of a number of fluid property differences that could vary a debris clogging symptoms severely.

Debris may rise or fall in suspension, or just plain move differently based on chemicals, temp and thickness.

Just another straw to grasp at Wiz. Your's sounds different, or most affected, or best diagnosed, or a combo

"Still trying to not shoot my eye out"

 

"Nursing insomnia one railcar at a time"

My aroma therapy? Smoke Pellets.

 





I would share the fix, but I would like Lionel to do it since the units are under warranty. I'll try and contact Service and see if they say it's OK for me to post it.

Proud Member of the OGR Family, Designer of Unique TMCC Products, Lionel Collector and Operator, Lionel Beta Tester, Original Train-Ca-Teer Member

cjack posted:

Would you share that simple fix with us? Is it a retro fix...can it be implemented in the field? 

I will if Lionel says it's OK to post on the forum, I don't want to step on their toes. They may want to address it a different way. I should know sometime today. And yes it's a field upgrade that anyone can do.

Ernie

Proud Member of the OGR Family, Designer of Unique TMCC Products, Lionel Collector and Operator, Lionel Beta Tester, Original Train-Ca-Teer Member

This thing is a mess. Smoke fluid seeping out under the tank platform and the house. I'm not sure I want Lionel to "fix" this one. How could I hope that it is clean of fluid everywhere? What's a solvent that won't hurt the plastic?

Chuck TCA LCCA ARRL BMWMOA

Megasteam has a cleanup spray...wonder if it's safe on the plastic, but then how would I get the fluid out from under the tank base? Disconnect the inlet hose and unscrew the tank base while the tank has 2 oz of fluid in it upside down?

I feel like putting the thing in a plastic bag and being done with it.

Chuck TCA LCCA ARRL BMWMOA

Ok here's the fix.

To make it easy to access the pump remove the back wall, it pops off easy. The culprit is the boom hose that breaks. The photos show how to repair the break. The hose coupler has to have a 1/8 ID to function correctly but not over 5/32 ID. The original Lionel hose will fit snugly into the coupler and provide a leak proof connection. The feed hose does not need to be repaired unless you want to do both. The fuel hos can be purchased at any hobby store that carries radio controlled cars or airplanes. Lionel is in the process of buying the correct hose. I'm sure they would send a piece upon request once they have it.

  

Proud Member of the OGR Family, Designer of Unique TMCC Products, Lionel Collector and Operator, Lionel Beta Tester, Original Train-Ca-Teer Member

Attachments

Photos (4)
cjack posted:
Lionel2341 posted:

OK, good news I'll post the fix in a few. Stay tuned.

Ernie

What's your take on cleaning up all this fluid?

I would stand it up vertical with the tank pointing down on a old towel or paper towel to soak up any smoke fluid, then use some 409 or something like that to clean up.

Ernie

Proud Member of the OGR Family, Designer of Unique TMCC Products, Lionel Collector and Operator, Lionel Beta Tester, Original Train-Ca-Teer Member

Geez, Glad I didn't buy this accesory at York. The whole housing setup is a disaster waiting to happen. Even, the repair method looks like it will be temporary. The pump should have had threaded inlet outlet ports...the connections brass pressure fittings......The price is also another factor....but, that is a story for another day.

I'm feeling better. The hose fix looks good and should be reasonably dry of seepage. The fluid all over my house floor and under the tank floor seems to be seeping out less now. I have the thing tipped up at a 45 degree angle. Thinking of putting it out in the sun to thin out the propylene glycol or what ever it is, the Lionel fluid.

1/8 inch ID, eh? Lessee...what's that in mm?

3.175mm.

5/32 inch is just about 4 mm.

So we'll see what the hobby store has...

Chuck TCA LCCA ARRL BMWMOA

shawn posted:

Geez, Glad I didn't buy this accesory at York. The whole housing setup is a disaster waiting to happen. Even, the repair method looks like it will be temporary. The pump should have had threaded inlet outlet ports...the connections brass pressure fittings......The price is also another factor....but, that is a story for another day.

Not exactly, my Original used straight 1/8" ID hose from pump to boom. Not sure why it was done this way.

Ernie

Proud Member of the OGR Family, Designer of Unique TMCC Products, Lionel Collector and Operator, Lionel Beta Tester, Original Train-Ca-Teer Member

Don't get me wrong I love Lionel and have been collecting for over 40 years but I was frustrated on this one taking 3 or so years to get out to the public.  This has happened with other accessories.  I wound up building one 4 months ago using the same building as the one TAS used.  It works great!  I got a call about a month ago from a hobby shop in Georgia where I must have pre-ordered the Smoke Fluid Loader when it was up for pre-order.  My cost was much cheaper then the new selling price so I bought it.  I guess I am glad I haven't had it out of the box yet.  I'll wait for Lionel to offer the hose.  Also glad I visit this site often.

Craig Willard

Lionel2341 posted:

Ok here's the fix.

To make it easy to access the pump remove the back wall, it pops off easy. The culprit is the boom hose that breaks. The photos show how to repair the break. The hose coupler has to have a 1/8 ID to function correctly but not over 5/32 ID. The original Lionel hose will fit snugly into the coupler and provide a leak proof connection. The feed hose does not need to be repaired unless you want to do both. The fuel hos can be purchased at any hobby store that carries radio controlled cars or airplanes. Lionel is in the process of buying the correct hose. I'm sure they would send a piece upon request once they have it.

  

Sorry, but I have to ask a stupid question now.

Based on the pics, it looks like the curvature of each hose coming off the pump is still greatly hanging over the area where the wall will be when re-assembled.

If they are pushed in towards the inside of the house to allow the wall to be replaced, could it not cause the flow issues described again?  (sorry if I read the other posts too fast, but it sounded like that was a big part of the issue.  The fix looks like it can stop leakage, but will the restricted flow maybe still be an issue?)

-Dave

BFI66 posted:

Ernie is this the  proper tubing?

 

No Don't use Vinyl, You want to use "Glo Fuel Hose" Amazon has it.

 

Ernie

Dave45681 posted:
Lionel2341 posted:

Ok here's the fix.

To make it easy to access the pump remove the back wall, it pops off easy. The culprit is the boom hose that breaks. The photos show how to repair the break. The hose coupler has to have a 1/8 ID to function correctly but not over 5/32 ID. The original Lionel hose will fit snugly into the coupler and provide a leak proof connection. The feed hose does not need to be repaired unless you want to do both. The fuel hos can be purchased at any hobby store that carries radio controlled cars or airplanes. Lionel is in the process of buying the correct hose. I'm sure they would send a piece upon request once they have it.

  

Sorry, but I have to ask a stupid question now.

Based on the pics, it looks like the curvature of each hose coming off the pump is still greatly hanging over the area where the wall will be when re-assembled.

If they are pushed in towards the inside of the house to allow the wall to be replaced, could it not cause the flow issues described again?  (sorry if I read the other posts too fast, but it sounded like that was a big part of the issue.  The fix looks like it can stop leakage, but will the restricted flow maybe still be an issue?)

-Dave

No, it works fine, because you're not compressing the original hose as you would in the way it's installed by the factory.

Ernie 

Proud Member of the OGR Family, Designer of Unique TMCC Products, Lionel Collector and Operator, Lionel Beta Tester, Original Train-Ca-Teer Member

E-UNIT-79 posted:

Why would they use a joined piece and not 1 solid line from fitting to fitting??? Made in China. Lol...

Proud Member of the OGR Family, Designer of Unique TMCC Products, Lionel Collector and Operator, Lionel Beta Tester, Original Train-Ca-Teer Member

Lionel2341 posted:
BFI66 posted:

Ernie is this the  proper tubing?

 

No Don't use Vinyl, You want to use "Glo Fuel Hose" Amazon has it.

 

Ernie

Dave45681 posted:
Lionel2341 posted:

Ok here's the fix.

To make it easy to access the pump remove the back wall, it pops off easy. The culprit is the boom hose that breaks. The photos show how to repair the break. The hose coupler has to have a 1/8 ID to function correctly but not over 5/32 ID. The original Lionel hose will fit snugly into the coupler and provide a leak proof connection. The feed hose does not need to be repaired unless you want to do both. The fuel hos can be purchased at any hobby store that carries radio controlled cars or airplanes. Lionel is in the process of buying the correct hose. I'm sure they would send a piece upon request once they have it.

  

Sorry, but I have to ask a stupid question now.

Based on the pics, it looks like the curvature of each hose coming off the pump is still greatly hanging over the area where the wall will be when re-assembled.

If they are pushed in towards the inside of the house to allow the wall to be replaced, could it not cause the flow issues described again?  (sorry if I read the other posts too fast, but it sounded like that was a big part of the issue.  The fix looks like it can stop leakage, but will the restricted flow maybe still be an issue?)

-Dave

No, it works fine, because you're not compressing the original hose as you would in the way it's installed by the factory.

Ernie 

It looks ok, I just fixed it. You want to keep the splice short, but adequate on the hose to hose area. I found it best to clean the smoke fluid well off the hoses so they won't pop out when fitting the wall back. The wall does bend the hoses a bit, but not enough to kink or pop them out.

Still waiting on fluid seep...

Anybody know if the b-Gone Cleaner from Mega-Steam is safe on the plastic base paint?

Chuck TCA LCCA ARRL BMWMOA

Ernie sorry to be a pain in the butt. Could not find Glo fuel hose or Glo fuel tubing in a search on Amazon.  Could you post a link so we buy the right tubing

Much appreciated

-Pete

"My greatest fear is that one day I will die and my wife will sell my trains at the price that I told her I paid For them!"

 

 

BFI66 posted:

Ernie sorry to be a pain in the butt. Could not find Glo fuel hose or Glo fuel tubing in a search on Amazon.  Could you post a link so we buy the right tubing

Much appreciated

-Pete

No hobby store near by? BTW the hobby store here has small, medium, and large fuel tubing. Then they what looked like it might be bigger for fueling with a probe. That worked. Silicone hose.

Try searching for silicone fuel line or hose.

Chuck TCA LCCA ARRL BMWMOA

cjack posted:
BFI66 posted:

Ernie sorry to be a pain in the butt. Could not find Glo fuel hose or Glo fuel tubing in a search on Amazon.  Could you post a link so we buy the right tubing

Much appreciated

-Pete

No hobby store near by? BTW the hobby store here has small, medium, and large fuel tubing. Then they what looked like it might be bigger for fueling with a probe. That worked. Silicone hose.

Try searching for silicone fuel line or hose.

Amazon is just easier for me. Nearest hobby shop is quite a trip from where I live. 

Amazon just got a bit confusing. They had alot of different types of tubing. I am not into RC so I was not aware of all these types and noone really stated what type of tubing at the outset of this thread except to state 1/8 ID

I'll figure it out unless someone would like to help me out with a link. Thanks- Pete

"My greatest fear is that one day I will die and my wife will sell my trains at the price that I told her I paid For them!"

 

 

Maybe it is in one of those threads or common sense to most of you...but, why is that switch even included with the accessory if it seems it must be slid in one certain direction for the thing to work properly?  I can understand an "off" position...but, what for what is the "reverse" position used?

I probably missed that somewhere...I am prepared to be ridiculed and chastised.

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