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Guy's it's not like I can't fix it, it's like why the **** should I have to???  I started out fixing a couple things and then thought: What am I doing??? I shouldn't have to spend hours making something this expensive right!  I'll be packing it up...

You should not have to fix anything, not at these prices………. If more -expletive sent them back Lionel would get the message

That stinks, John. You and others are 100% correct, we shouldn't have to fix nor send in brand new trains to be fixed. I've come to accept that toy trains are among my drugs of choice - I am addicted, no other way to explain spending mega-bucks - and they do cost mega-bucks - and then dealing with the downside. The healthy aspect of the hobby is that it affords a creative outlet = layout building. The trains have no part to play in this aspect...which is kind of a paradox when I think about it. I see them running in my imagination more than I do on the layout

A video from Henning's Trains was about a visit to a very large train collection and elaborate layout in their area.  The gentleman who owned it all and built it all said that the least fun he had was running the trains.

I won't add the obvious sarcastic comment in keeping with this thread.  

However Paul you are in good company and likely have numerous folks who feel likewise.

@dkdkrd posted:

Not sure about that, really...

In days of yore when attending York meets wherein the 'elephants' of the hobby would hold forth in Orange Hall, I would occasionally patiently wait my turn near the reps engaged in discussions with attendees.  As you might imagine, the overheard topics were not at all dissimilar to this thread's topic...lingering, repetitive quality issues.

I think it's more just the nature of the 'beast' of off-shore manufacturing that, like it or not, marches to the underlying beat of a different drum than we sound half a world away...regardless of the best intentions and communications of the US-based entity with which we deal.

Ask yourself...'How many times have you personally had the opportunity to talk with the FACTORY representatives about these issues?'  You know, the people that MAKE and SHIP the products we've ordered.  The folks that seem to have a pretty decent grasp of the English language, but clearly more often speak a different one in their day-to-day roles half a world away??  You have to wonder if they really ever HEAR the ultimate consumers' opinions...opinions not collected, summarized, and communicated through a funnel (read: Mr./Ms. contact/representative between the US corporation and the XYZ foreign manufacturer)

It might make a difference if 'they' heard it themselves...from dozens...hundreds...of individuals who ultimately purchase, eagerly await, and then are disappointed...irritated...OK, downright P.O.'d!!...with what they parted money in exchange therefore.

It might.

But, then again, probably not.

It's not an original idea.  Face-to-face communication...instead of through global electronics, filtered opinions, condensed versions, same-ol-same-ol yada-yada-yada's from the same humanoid saying it.   Can you really call it "communicating"??  It's that now-ubiquitous question we ask ourselves here on a social basis, a post-Covid lockdown basis, a 'What the H___ are we graduating nowadays?" basis.

Isn't it just another form of "Artificial Intelligence" at play??

Nope.  It is what it is.

And the beat goes on.

I know, I'm "beat" re this topic's never-ending product experience.  And, not just re the subject manufacturer either.

So, here's a parting thought...

...and be happy with what you have.


Your point is well taken except you forget there are other Train hobbies that don’t put up with us. Their manufacture stand behind their products for years not 12 months. Until we stop tolerating this garbage and repair, which should not have to be repaired. It will continue at the end of the day. It’s our own fault we lineup to buy very expensive toys with the hope we get one that works as my wife would say say, hope is not a plan

Unfortunately it’s too late for Lionel to simply stand behind their products. There is a very serious manufacturing and engineering issue going on here. The Chinese contractor obviously is not capable of building model trains. Back at stateside somebody is not getting the job done if they are accepting these problems. By all means I would return this engine and not accept anything else.
The only solution that I see is for Lionel to drop the high end offerings. At $1900.00 we expect perfection and they are obviously unable to come up to that standard.

@romiller49 posted:

At $1900.00 we expect perfection and they are obviously unable to come up to that standard.

I certainly don’t expect perfection. A occasional stripped screw here, or a bad solder joint there. Maybe even an occasional crooked line or overspray. Those types of things are expected.

Gear boxes that grenade themselves, paint colors that couldn’t hit the side of a barn if they were playing baseball, zinc rot, and misspellings on ALL the copies of the models… Those are completely preventable design and engineering defects, plain and simple.

Received my 90 yesterday. No loose parts and no issues as far as I can tell. Not much smoke output out of the box but I need to purchase more smoke fluid, as I don't have any on hand at the moment. It's a gorgeous model, no doubt about it. One of the nicest paint and detail jobs I've seen. I purchased the 2000s black scheme, as I think it's the cleanest.

Last edited by Rtflyer

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