Nice review Greg, thanks for taking the time as I know its not easy.
I am totally impressed with the cast in rivet detail. I did not think it was possible to get the detail as small as it is, meaning I thought the rivet detail was going to be much more pronounced, but it isn't.
Thanks again.
Charlie
I bought the PRR 4913, Tuscan. No issues, other than that seem along the top. It runs perfectly and there isn't a day I don't admire it on the layout or on the shelf. To top it off, my 5yr. old grandson always asks, "Can we run the GG1, Grandpa." Can't ask for a better endorsement than that!
Yes nice review Greg, Here again it's running by itself. How many cars do you guys pull with your GG1's.
Bob Herr posted:Yes nice review Greg, Here again it's running by itself. How many cars do you guys pull with your GG1's.
I haven't had a chance to bring down all of my PRR passenger cars to run with the GG1 but here are a couple of shots pulling some head end cars that I had stored down at the club.
The Problem is The Lionel Vision Line GG1. I’ve read all the post in this subject and some where saying Lionel for the most part took care of any problems. Well it's not the case for me, They basically told me if I'm not satisfied to take it back to the dealer and get a refund . Now that sounds like the thing to do, but then I won’t have the GG1 that I wanted and because it’s BTO the chances of owning one that works correctly are slim. OK enough of the rambling on let’s get to the issue.
Honestly, I don't understand your reluctance to return the locomotive. Since you believe that it doesn't work correctly, do you have the GG1 you wanted?
Perhaps you got a lemon.
If there aren't others out there for sale right now, there is a good chance they will be made again anyway.
I would say it is a matter of time for the GG1s to show the signs of stalling that both of my GG1 engines are showing. You see, I RUN MY TRAINS. ... and I expect my trains to run. (Silly me.)
Of course I lubricate as the instructions suggest. I even re-lubricate after a few hours if needed. I don't take the engines up to full speed, nor do I creep them around the layout. I wear the engines in at speed step "50-70" to give the engines enough power to push the newly meshing gears without taxing them at high speeds.
I think I am doing it right. Any suggestions?
My neighbor says I should call 1-800-Got Junk.
Bob Herr posted:.... How many cars do you guys pull with your GG1's.
My 4800 pulled 7 scale-sized Polar Express/Railroad cars .... 3 heavyweights, 3 freights, and 1 caboose. The train ran very often for about 7 weeks. No problems, smooth starts.
Sorry, I never tried running a heavier train.
Good luck.
Thanks for writing back. So I can say that they all are not the same as mine. but that's what I was told. why do people have to make up stories. Just give me the truth, I respect that. Well I'll see if I can get my money back. I'd like to try another one but i'm a little gun shy now. John I wish you luck on getting one to run right because they really are neat.
I sat on the phone 15 minutes waiting for Lionel Service to answer today, Tuesday, July 25, 2017. I gave up waiting. My monthly phone charges to Lionel Service average $40.00.
They have my Vision Line #4913 in for service for a second time for the same stalling Cab 1 problem. My 4935 is here waiting.
My third #990 Remote System is also there. My two Pennsylvania caboose with bad smoke switches and four Twin Hopper cars with opening couplers just returned back to me. I should make a chart for the over 44 items that have been sent for warranty repair in the last year and a half. Some items had to go twice. When does this hobby start being fun?
John Rowlen posted:I sat on the phone 15 minutes waiting for Lionel Service to answer today, Tuesday, July 25, 2017. I gave up waiting. My monthly phone charges to Lionel Service average $40.00.
Perhaps you missed this post?
Wow, I feel your pain. I've been talking with my club members and we all feel that Lionel quality is getting worse. more and more things are coming out that need repair. Don't get me wrong I like Lionel but I hate to see it going in this direction. I just got some new box cars I ordered and when I looked at then I noticed they changed the trucks. I like scale stuff and that's all I buy. The scale cars I've always gotten had diecast metal sprung trucks and hidden uncoupling tabs. The new scale cars have the same trucks that come on the LionScale cars. So now they no longer have the sprung trucks and no longer have the hidden uncoupling tabs. Now they have the big button right below the coupler. Which sticks out like a sore thumb. I'm not happy about that. Might as well buy the 027 stuff. Here again we pay more for cheaper built. Hopefully Someone will turn them around.
Bob Herr posted:The new scale cars have the same trucks that come on the LionScale cars. So now they no longer have the sprung trucks and no longer have the hidden uncoupling tabs. Now they have the big button right below the coupler. Which sticks out like a sore thumb. I'm not happy about that. Might as well buy the 027 stuff. Here again we pay more for cheaper built. Hopefully Someone will turn them around.
The coupler change was made almost a year and a half ago if not longer. It was so the scale and 2 rail guys could easily replace them with Kadee couplers.
Was it a rain storm or a SNOW storm? Put the phone plug back in the wall.
My #4800 Old Rivets runs like a gem.
John Rowlen posted:I sat on the phone 15 minutes waiting for Lionel Service to answer today, Tuesday, July 25, 2017. I gave up waiting. My monthly phone charges to Lionel Service average $40.00.
Phone charges? Who doesn't have an unlimited calling plan nowadays?
gunrunnerjohn posted:John Rowlen posted:I sat on the phone 15 minutes waiting for Lionel Service to answer today, Tuesday, July 25, 2017. I gave up waiting. My monthly phone charges to Lionel Service average $40.00.
Phone charges? Who doesn't have an unlimited calling plan nowadays?
I was wondering about that too. The only person in America without an unlimited long distance plan is complaining because Lionel lost their phones and internet in a severe storm. 
Phone company wants $60.00 a month, for every month. I don't call anyone, except Lionel, and I was hoping I would not need to in the future. I still have a rotary phone. It is great when there is a power loss. We are able to call to notify the electric company because it uses the low voltage power in the phone lines. AT&T wants to abandon land lines in our area. They don't want to maintain the wires, not that they do. If the electric company could figure out how to deliver electricity without power lines, they would abandon maintaining the lines, not that they do.
The transformer at the end of my driveway has blown off power leads twice in the last year, causing neighborhood black outs. We were told we would get a new transformer a year ago. Still waiting. The transformer is tilting on the old "wood peckered", splintered pole, backed away about three inches at the top. When it falls off, we might actually either get a new pole, or a new transformer. Can't imagine them giving us both.
John Rowlen posted:Was it a rain storm or a SNOW storm? Put the phone plug back in the wall.
Thunderstorms have been very severe in the Southeast lately.. May seem trivial to you, but when lightening hits your house/business etc and fries all electrical components and or circuitry or worse, burns the place down, there's much more to it than "Put the phone plug back in the wall".. I hope you never have to experience any of the above.......
I've experienced thousands of dollars of electrical surge damage at my print shop in North Royalton, Ohio. The best surge protectors can't seem to stop the damage. The roof leaks are also quite disturbing in a print shop. Sorry if I offended you.
John Rowlen posted:Phone company wants $60.00 a month, for every month. I don't call anyone, except Lionel, and I was hoping I would not need to in the future. I still have a rotary phone.
You seriously don't call ANYONE but Lionel?
John, you need to join us in the 21th Century. 
You can have cell phone unlimited calling for $20/mo.
Yes, when the power goes out, the cell phones still work, as they have backup power for each tower. And, you can take your phone with you if you're out.
MartyE posted:Bob Herr posted:The new scale cars have the same trucks that come on the LionScale cars. So now they no longer have the sprung trucks and no longer have the hidden uncoupling tabs. Now they have the big button right below the coupler. Which sticks out like a sore thumb. I'm not happy about that. Might as well buy the 027 stuff. Here again we pay more for cheaper built. Hopefully Someone will turn them around.
The coupler change was made almost a year and a half ago if not longer. It was so the scale and 2 rail guys could easily replace them with Kadee couplers.
They bowed to a very small portion of the 3rail hobby and totally destroyed the looks of the cars. They look like a 3rd rate manufactured car now.
Rod Miller
We think of steam to HEAT cars. Depending on the equipment a passenger car had, it COOLED the car. Long story. I think ATSF used steam A/C to cool their cars.
I don't like the button couplers either. They remind me of the old MPC days.
What would the new cars look like if you spent about 30 seconds per car by taking a Dremel tool to the tabs/buttons… like many do with the Golden Gate Depot passenger cars?
Charlie
Well Charlie that's almost what i'm doing. I take the coupler off and drill out the tab(large button). Then they don't look as bad. Also I think the coupler is plastic now. I didn't really look that close but it sure looks plastic. Maybe someone else can confirm that it is plastic.
Here is some info posted by Mike Reagan last year on the subject.
When folks make these modifications to the couples, do they still work with an uncoupling track?
(It does not sound like it)
Stephan, you may want to read the eight page article , "How to Maintain a Lionel GG", on pages 40-47 of the July 2013 CTT if you have not done so yet.
"When folks make these modifications to the couples, do they still work with an uncoupling track?"
No, we don't have a single uncoupling track on the MWD TCA layout so we would not use that feature anyway. However, since the removal of the tab/button, the random uncouplings have gone way down, or have been elminanated.
Charlie
I sat on the phone 15 minutes waiting for Lionel Service to answer today, Tuesday, July 25, 2017. I gave up waiting. My monthly phone charges to Lionel Service average $40.00.
They have my Vision Line #4913 in for service for a second time for the same stalling Cab 1 problem. My 4935 is here waiting.
My third #990 Remote System is also there. My two Pennsylvania caboose with bad smoke switches and four Twin Hopper cars with opening couplers just returned back to me. I should make a chart for the over 44 items that have been sent for warranty repair in the last year and a half. Some items had to go twice. When does this hobby start being fun?
Sorry John, but with the amount of issues you're experiencing, I think its a user problem!
No I don't call anyone long distance. I might call Hennings about the Lionel Lackawanna SD45 #3607 I just purchased from them. When you spend $200,000 on trains, there isn't much left for other things. No cable either. TV is a waste of time. When I see a big flash over Cleveland, I will know what happened: the transformer at the end of my drive blew up again.
No it is not a user problem. I just purchased$200,000 of trains and some of it was not working as Dean at Lionel can confirm. If you spend $200,000, you will get issues too.
I think if I had received many defective products one of the first things I'd consider is using another dealer. Using my local shop, and, mostly Charles Ro, I think my defect rate is less than 1% of hundreds of purchases over the last 20 years. Not $200,000 worth, but probably easily $20,000 
.
If you spend 200k on a hobby and it's upsetting you it might be time to spend it on something else.
My trains came from Lionel's Top Ten Dealers. It did not matter from whom I purchased. There are no bad Lionel dealers. The expensive steam engines had pinched wires that often shorted a control board: SP Cab Forward, Allegheny Steam Whistle, etc.
Many LEDs, that supposedly never burn out, were replaced in tender markers, ES44AC headlights, and passenger car lights. Sparking Trucks on some of my thirty-seven 21" passenger cars may have led to the re-design of the 21" passenger cars that Lionel Service said will be arriving the last week of November, 2017.
I can't wait for the cars to go with my SP Lines GS-4 and UP FEF-3. The Pennsylvania fleet is waiting for the 10 Pennsylvania cars. Hopefully Lionel can fix the Vision Line GG1 #4913 to pull them.
I always wanted to open a train store when I retired. After talking with many dealers, (over 10), I decided to forget that plan, and privately purchase the products to see the reliability. It would bother me to face customers who would have the same problems I have experienced, returning their purchase price, as dealers are now being told by several manufacturers. To open a store, to pay rent, to make a sale, to refund the purchase money, to send new merchandise back to the factory would drive me "Crazy". (Crazier, Craziest)
romiller49 posted:MartyE posted:Bob Herr posted:The new scale cars have the same trucks that come on the LionScale cars. So now they no longer have the sprung trucks and no longer have the hidden uncoupling tabs. Now they have the big button right below the coupler. Which sticks out like a sore thumb. I'm not happy about that. Might as well buy the 027 stuff. Here again we pay more for cheaper built. Hopefully Someone will turn them around.
The coupler change was made almost a year and a half ago if not longer. It was so the scale and 2 rail guys could easily replace them with Kadee couplers.
They bowed to a very small portion of the 3rail hobby and totally destroyed the looks of the cars. They look like a 3rd rate manufactured car now.
Rod Miller
Interesting you say that as it reflects many guests comments. Since all the engines and rolling stock, including what kids have and bring over to run, are factory equipped with the Lionel coupler they never notice the size. It is when sitting down watching the trains roll by they notice the new cars with the thumbtack hanging down and ask about it. Issues with the Lionel hidden tab coupler must be either in the design or manufacturing of them since none of the MTH rolling stock equipped with them have these random uncoupling issues.
"It did not matter from whom I purchased. "
My question would be what percentage of your 200,000 dollars in purchasing required servicing? General electromechanical appliances from major manufacturers like Sony, LG, Samsung, GE, etc. require repair at the rate of 5-10% (Consumer Reports surveys of readers). My experience with toy trains has been much better than that but I don't use mine heavily.
Thus if your failure rate in heavy use is 5-10%, that's par for the course with modern consumer goods. Initial failures would be less than that (mine is about 1%). Therefore, failure in use of about 10,000 - 20,000 dollars of equipment would not be attributable to "bad QC" if we are using the yardstick of washers/dryers/refrigerators/vacuum cleaners and your large volume of purchasing. Obviously anything more than two $1,000 locos failing on receipt would be the equivalent of 1%. But if you are buying 100 locos, at least one or two, perhaps 3-5 are going to have initial serious defects in all likelihood.
"I should make a chart for the over 44 items that have been sent for warranty repair"
44 Items sent back for repair is a huge amount. Your either the most unlucky guy in the hobby or something else is going on.
I have over 150 locomotives (all high end) and have had 2 or 3 issues. Two of which were taken care of by my dealer with a simple exchange and one went back to MTH. I had items that needed repair due to worn parts and also things that I damaged. But nothing close to 44.
Maybe you should change dealers.
Do you have any power issues in your area, maybe lots of power spikes.
John Rowlen posted:No it is not a user problem. I just purchased$200,000 of trains and some of it was not working as Dean at Lionel can confirm. If you spend $200,000, you will get issues too.
Is this a joke? You spent $200,000 on trains and you don't have a decent home phone plan or a modern cell phone with unlimited calling? This is a spoof that people are taking seriously or the poster needs a therapist of some sort.
As far as the original question is concerned, if you want the Vision GG1, then go ahead and buy it. Personally, I would buy it from a dealer within driving distance and run it at the store to make sure it is not an invitation to aggravation.
Ray Lombardo posted:This is a spoof that people are taking seriously or the poster needs a therapist of some sort.
Exactly what I was thinking. 
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