Lionel Wabash Bluebird 21" Passenger Set

TrainingDave posted:

 

Specific domes for each road name

 

As the dome itself is a separate piece, it costs just as much to do it right as it does to do it wrong.

Imagine if these domes show up on the UP excursion set?

Rusty

The lack of bright dome lighting is prototypical.  Though coach domes were generally not extra fare, the railroads had the good sense not to over-illuminate them.  Having ridden the MILW, GN and CB&Q domes, it is my recollection that there was theater type floor lighting for the same reasons.  Having just finished a project to modify a MTH Super Dome, I replicated that lighting effect by drilling holes in the floor of the dome, in the aisle adjacent to every other seat, to admit light from the illuminated area below.  With room lights dimmed or extinguished, the effect is quite realistic - there is a glow from the dome but no Klieg Lights.  Perhaps that compromise would work for you, too.

One of my favorite memories is of watching a huge, violent thunderstorm roll across the prairie at twilight from the single dome of the homely little "Aksarben Zephyr".  Such an experience would not have been possible with bright overhead lighting.

All domes from ANY MANUFACTURER are a pain in the arse!!!

  No ... seriously though all domes are hard too manufacture!

aterry11 posted:

All domes from ANY MANUFACTURER are a pain in the arse!!!

  No ... seriously though all domes are hard too manufacture!

And yet Lionel cranked out a fairly decent representation of a Budd dome in the 1950's:

Rusty

One of the forum sponsors, I think Custom O Decals, has very nice short LED strips. I used them to great success to light my Lionel 15" short domes. Perhaps they would work here as well.

On the subject of lights being in the domes I would wonder are domes really lite in real life? Is not the purpose of the dome to let passengers look out? That would be difficult if the domes were lite especially at night. I have never ridden in a passenger car with a dome so I don't know. If anybody has please let me know. I do remember returning home on the 765 excursion out of Allentown, it was well past sunset when we arrived back in Allentown and I did notice there were no lights on in the domes on those cars that had them. I asked a friend as we were waiting for the bus to take us back to our car and he said if they were lit you could not see out. Makes sense to me.

JohnB

Rusty Traque posted:

TrainingDave posted:

 

Specific domes for each road name

 

As the dome itself is a separate piece, it costs just as much to do it right as it does to do it wrong.

Imagine if these domes show up on the UP excursion set?

Rusty

It is a correct Budd dome. 

So with that dome correctly tooled, Lionel would have to make another tool for the other domes used on all the other road names. Seems like a minor thing to me if it means these can be had at a smaller price.

Also, JohnB is right. Not many domes were brightly lit, if lit at all. Would defeat the purpose.

But this thread seems more about torches and pitchforks than anything else.

Yes, the domes had very little light, remember at night that there were dim lit floor lights to make your way around. Nothing like sitting up there when your a kid at night and watching the stars...

TrainingDave posted:

Rusty Traque posted:

TrainingDave posted:

 

Specific domes for each road name

 

As the dome itself is a separate piece, it costs just as much to do it right as it does to do it wrong.

Imagine if these domes show up on the UP excursion set?

Rusty

It is a correct Budd dome. 

So with that dome correctly tooled, Lionel would have to make another tool for the other domes used on all the other road names. Seems like a minor thing to me if it means these can be had at a smaller price.

Also, JohnB is right. Not many domes were brightly lit, if lit at all. Would defeat the purpose.

But this thread seems more about torches and pitchforks than anything else.

Nope, Lionel's dome is not even correct to represent the dome pictured, which is an ex-D&RGW car.  The Rio Grande car has curved glass on the lower windows and Lionel's has flat glass.  Also notice the D&RGW's dome windows are angled forward slightly.

Lionel's dome is closest to the Burlington's "Silver Dome," which rebuilt from a coach and was the pattern for all following Budd domes.  The only reason it has flat glass was curved glass wasn't available due to wartime restrictions.

But in reality, Lionel's appears to be patterned from the Pullman Company's Santa Fe domes:

Rusty

Rocky Mountaineer posted:

N&W 1218 posted:

 ...  I'm impressed with all of the features except for one. The Vista Dome cars are NOT lighted with LEDs. With the lights out you can't even tell that they are dome cars. Big disappointment. 

That is a HUGE disappointment. 

I'm expecting my Texas Special set to arrive tomorrow (Tuesday), and I think that set is supposed to have just one Vista Dome... so it won't be AS big of a deal.  But if I'm not absolutely thrilled with the set, the cars will be going back to Charlie Ro... 

David

The real Texas Special didn't have any dome cars, so for running at night it's probably better that it's dark!   At other times, maybe you should run it without the dome!

TrainingDave posted:

So with that dome correctly tooled, Lionel would have to make another tool for the other domes used on all the other road names. Seems like a minor thing to me if it means these can be had at a smaller price.

Also, JohnB is right. Not many domes were brightly lit, if lit at all. Would defeat the purpose.

But this thread seems more about torches and pitchforks than anything else.

Boy, I'll say.  And how many people are ever going to notice this stuff? Personally, overall it looks like a beautiful set.

What can I say, real nice set.
Looks like your having fun.
The domes do look different than the real picture, but they still look good. 

Suggestion for the Vista dome lighting:
Maybe make a walkway on the floor/isle type lighting in the vista dome along the seats, maybe by drilling very small holes (1/64 or smaller) thru to allow the light from below to shine up.
Does anyone know what is being used in the Vista dome?

You need people sitting in the cars.
50pcs Model Seated People Sitting Figures Passengers w/ Poses Diorama Layout $10.13 shipping $2.04

mikey posted:

Atlas seemed to be able to light the domes on the Zephyr cars,how much can it cost,plus wrong end on observation.

Mikey

Atlas used a pair of chip LEDs on the top side of the light board to illuminate the dome. Its not a whole lot of light, but just enough to reflect off the windows and make it seem lit. Cant imagine it cost more than what it costs to buy 2 LEDs, but that would require making 2 boards.... one for domes and one for everything else.

Drilling holes in the floor of the dome would work, provided that you didnt drill them directly above the circuit board for the lights downstairs. I also bet the board would support an extra LED if you soldered some wires on in parallel to the other LEDs in the board.

It is a correct Budd dome. 

Nope, Lionel's dome is not even correct to represent the dome pictured, which is an ex-D&RGW car.  The Rio Grande car has curved glass on the lower windows and Lionel's has flat glass.  Also notice the D&RGW's dome windows are angled forward slightly.

The two cars shown above are Budd domes but they are not a common style of Budd dome. These were built for the C&O's Chessie train and had low domes so they could operate through tunnels particularly the one leading into DC Union Station. To my knowledge there were only six of these type domes made - 3 dome/coach/observations and 3 dome/drawing room/cabin cars all for The Chessie. When that train was cancelled the observations went to the Pere Marquette district of the C&O for a few years before sold to the D&RGW. The straight domes went to the B&O. These are unique cars and have only been made in HO brass.

Ken

kanawha posted:

It is a correct Budd dome. 

Nope, Lionel's dome is not even correct to represent the dome pictured, which is an ex-D&RGW car.  The Rio Grande car has curved glass on the lower windows and Lionel's has flat glass.  Also notice the D&RGW's dome windows are angled forward slightly.

The two cars shown above are Budd domes but they are not a common style of Budd dome. These were built for the C&O's Chessie train and had low domes so they could operate through tunnels particularly the one leading into DC Union Station. To my knowledge there were only six of these type domes made - 3 dome/coach/observations and 3 dome/drawing room/cabin cars all for The Chessie. When that train was cancelled the observations went to the Pere Marquette district of the C&O for a few years before sold to the D&RGW. The straight domes went to the B&O. These are unique cars and have only been made in HO brass.

Ken

 

I figured there was more history to the Rio Grande domes, but I didn't have access to my books at the time.

Thanks, Ken.

Rusty

Is there a way to drop the body down lower over the trucks... the " high water flood " look is really bothersome. 

So far, four different posters have suggested that domes were not lit up on real trains, and one of them actually rode a dome at night.  Do you guys still think that Lionel made a major mistake?

If you are trying to look out the window at night, interior lighting completely destroys the view.  On the other hand, folks outside can see what you are doing with your girlfriend.

So here we are in the "Hi-Rail, O27 and Traditional 3-Rail O Gauge" - forum and everyone is getting their undies in a bundle about everything being prototypically correct.

I think the set looks awful darn nice. Would look great on any layout. Enjoy that beautiful set!

bob2 posted:

So far, four different posters have suggested that domes were not lit up on real trains, and one of them actually rode a dome at night.  Do you guys still think that Lionel made a major mistake?

If you are trying to look out the window at night, interior lighting completely destroys the view.  On the other hand, folks outside can see what you are doing with your girlfriend.

OMG could you be a "dirty ole man?

bob2 posted:

So far, four different posters have suggested that domes were not lit up on real trains, and one of them actually rode a dome at night.  Do you guys still think that Lionel made a major mistake?

...

Bob,

Nobody is looking for the dome to be lit up like a Christmas tree.  Instead, having a pleasant subtle glow to the dome would have created an awesome effect rather than pure darkness.  That's all we're saying.  Undoubtedly, it's likely a cost-cutting move... just like the packaging of these cars.  They no longer come in their own individual product boxes.  Lionel has dispensed with the individual product box with interior foam liners.  See my "first look" thread on the Texas Special 21" cars.  Seems every penny is being squeezed out of the cost side of the equation.  Somebody is definitely on a mission! 

David