LIONEL - WARRANTY WORK - WORK Completed!! - Train Runs Again

BMT-Express posted:

SDIV Tim posted:

From what I've heard, Dean is the only repair tech working. 

Sounds like the first repair of the day was to the Lionel Rumor Machine.

No first hand knowledge, but I am betting that the Mary Kay box was because the sender's original box was damaged in shipping, and the Mary Kay was the replacement.  Lionel tells you to send it with the RA # written on the outside.  I have never had a return not in my shipping box.  I have seen some boxes that were more tape than box.

 

I was not told this (bolded). When I told them I wanted the repair, they sent me a blank email with the FedEx shipping label in it. No directions whatsoever. So I wrote them a letter which included the RA#, put my name and address on the Lionel Box, and taped the letter to the box ... and then boxed that up in a larger box.

It used to be Lionel policy to run the engine for 3 hours on their layout to ensure proper operation.  Maybe that doesn't happen anymore??  It does sound like Lionel needs to train up some new techs.

Update:   I just got off the phone with Lionel.  The lady was very nice, and apologized many, many, many, many times.   I was not ugly, or mean at all.  She is just employee, doing her job as well.  I was however forceful (no cussing or swearing - no need for that at all) .  Dean was not available to talk, so she handled the problem.  

Lionel has issued me a new RMA#.  They are also paying for the shipping, to send the engine back to their shop.  They are promising me that everything will be fixed, good as new, when it returns.  

I did not make this post, because I had it out for Lionel.  I posted, because I wanted others to be aware of what I was going through.  I am new, and like some other posts have stated, this is not the way to welcome me into the hobby.  I was more upset that my little guy, who loves those remotes, was let down over and over by Lionel products.  This is now the third engine, out of four that I have bought for him, that does not work.  Thomas was the first engine, returned to the local hobby shop, because the engine stopped working.  Polar Express, I bought for him, before he was born, that is currently at the local shop, because the smoke unit went out as well.  GP7 Union Pacific, being sent back to Lionel again.  The only engine we have left, is a RS-3 Union Pacific, from the set I got in replacement for the Thomas that did not work.  My frustration lies in three engines, and we started this hobby in December 2017.  

I want my son to enjoy a hobby, and he loves trains.  To many kids are on their phones and looking at screens now (which is why I don't like the bluetooth in the new engines).   I remember growing up and my dad having a setup, so I want him to have that same experience.  

I am sorry if I offended the Lionel lovers out there.  That was not my intention at all.  This was just to tell our story.  I don't think any customer should expect this kind of poor quality, from any company.  

I promise to update, when the train returns.  

Gettle08; perhaps as a sign of good faith you can now edit the topic in your original post and remove the “what a joke”.  Just a suggestion...

Gettle08 kudos for taking Ted Ws suggestion and editing topic.  Glad to hear Lionel is attempting to make this right for you.

I know that no new product is 100% correct 100% of the time and can have situations where something brand new out of the box needs to be repaired or returned.  But I do understand the disappointment that goes along with being in that situation, especially when children are involved and the excitement and expectations are not met.  It seems like this is happening more and more in our hobby and we are becoming more accepting of this which is our own fault.  Apparently quality control is totally gone from consumer product manufacturing and the buying public just has to accept it.

I do find it ludicrous that the consumer must pay shipping costs for warranty covered repairs.

E-UNIT-79 posted:

And everybody is ok that has out $44 ? That's really not fair to the purchaser. Cei la vi.

I assume you mean, c’est la vie. 

Volphin posted:

It used to be Lionel policy to run the engine for 3 hours on their layout to ensure proper operation.  Maybe that doesn't happen anymore??  It does sound like Lionel needs to train up some new techs.

That was Mike Reagan's SOP when he was there. I talked to him about it once. (I think he said that if you want your engine to be mint, don't send it to him. ) Probably no longer SOP. Time consuming, obviously. 

BMT-Express posted:

No first hand knowledge, but I am betting that the Mary Kay box was because the sender's original box was damaged in shipping, and the Mary Kay was the replacement.

Normally they use the Mary Kay boxes when the engine has had cosmetic damage to repair.

Got my train and put it on the tracks. It runs, and no odd noises any longer. Need to turn on the sound to see if it still works, and if it does ... I'll be very happy with Lionel's repair department!

You were about 30 feet from a test track.  Did you ask anyone about a test track?

Train Nut posted:

rattler21 posted:

I thought items bought at a train show were AS IS.  Most shows have test tracks available.  Did you test the item at York?  How did LCCA have a selling booth?  Was it their stock or a member's stock?  Thank you, John

I doubt many people test the smoke unit at a show. And if they do, it certainly wouldn't be for more than 20 minutes which is what it took for it to break.

As I stated earlier in the post, even if he had tested it on the track, he probably would not have tested the smoke unit. At least I wouldn't have...

The poster states initially the train ran fine and the smoke unit crapped out after 20 minutes.

I have learned from dealing with the mess that is lionel service, if you have the skills to do it your self just fix it your self. 

Remember the "good old days" when practically anyone could perform repairs on an automobile? I totally rebuilt a 1950 Plymouth straight six in Auto Mechanics class, with some help from an instructor.  Trains of the 1950 seem to fit that pattern.

Now most cars have on-board computers that defy shade tree mechanics to make repairs and rely on "remove and replace" methodology. Similarly, modern era trains seem just as complicated.  All would be fine with the times if ... there were enough skilled mechanics for cars and credentialed repair techs for trains.

If you can instantly retrieve the info of a skilled train tech info from your cell phone, treasure him/her as a special resource!

Mike M.   (ritrainguy)   LCCA 12394 

The difference with cars though is the gov mandates parts be available for 10 years.

Wouldn't that be nice.

PS I had a '50 Plymouth as well. Great car.

You were about 30 feet from a test track.  Did you ask anyone about a test track?

What a silly person to expect a brand new item sold by the LCCA to work out of the box.

I've just read thru this entire post and have to say how do you compare new or used car warranties to model trains is beyond me.   Now back to the original post, I looked at the manual for this engine and I don't think 4 drops of smoke fluid would even begin to wet the wicking in a new smoke unit,maybe someone that has these engines could chime in about how much smoke fluid you use. 20 minutes of running with that little bit of fluid may have been your problem to begin with I don't know.

As far as the crappy workmanship and poor packing that is something Lionel needs to really improve on for sure!! I'm sure they will make it right.

Doug

Gettle08 posted:

Update:   I just got off the phone with Lionel.  The lady was very nice, and apologized many, many, many, many times.   I was not ugly, or mean at all.  She is just employee, doing her job as well.  I was however forceful (no cussing or swearing - no need for that at all) .  Dean was not available to talk, so she handled the problem.  

Lionel has issued me a new RMA#.  They are also paying for the shipping, to send the engine back to their shop.  They are promising me that everything will be fixed, good as new, when it returns.  

 

I did not make this post, because I had it out for Lionel.  I posted, because I wanted others to be aware of what I was going through.  I am new, and like some other posts have stated, this is not the way to welcome me into the hobby.  I was more upset that my little guy, who loves those remotes, was let down over and over by Lionel products.  This is now the third engine, out of four that I have bought for him, that does not work.  Thomas was the first engine, returned to the local hobby shop, because the engine stopped working.  Polar Express, I bought for him, before he was born, that is currently at the local shop, because the smoke unit went out as well.  GP7 Union Pacific, being sent back to Lionel again.  The only engine we have left, is a RS-3 Union Pacific, from the set I got in replacement for the Thomas that did not work.  My frustration lies in three engines, and we started this hobby in December 2017.  

I want my son to enjoy a hobby, and he loves trains.  To many kids are on their phones and looking at screens now (which is why I don't like the bluetooth in the new engines).   I remember growing up and my dad having a setup, so I want him to have that same experience.  

I am sorry if I offended the Lionel lovers out there.  That was not my intention at all.  This was just to tell our story.  I don't think any customer should expect this kind of poor quality, from any company.  

I promise to update, when the train returns.  

If you've been experiencing failures on a consistent basis with new product. That is a BIG issue. A once in a while anomaly is understandable. 

As, some issues are unavoidable. One such being the failure of smoke fan motors. If one assumes, the technical specification's of the part were correct for the application. Then, Lionel is at the mercy of the manufacturer of the motors. It is understandable that there may be issues with a supplier.

So, it comes down to the response and correction of the issue for the buyer! If a buyer is experiencing consistent problems across a product line. One only hopes that the Manufacturer will address those issues in future product. If not - You are left with two choices. That is your decision! That is it in a nut shell!

I've "ALWAYS; have had good luck with Lionel service. The one time there was minor issue. It was corrected......rapidly!

It's been my experience with fan driven smoke units that 20 drops is usually just a starting point.  I realize that they are trying to prevent flooding the unit, and that does create a mess.  After having lots of them open and starting with a dry unit after a rebuild, I can tell you that 20 drops won't do the trick with most standard sized smoke units.  I end up soaking the wick before putting the PCB back on, that allows me to see how much I need to "prime" it.  After measuring out what I use, it's around 40-45 drops from the JT's MegaSteam dropper to decently soak the wick.  With 20 drops in a dry smoke unit, I barely get any smoke from the standard Lionel or MTH smoke units.  Usually, I suck as much as I can get in the tube, about 2/3's full, and then add just a few drops more after I empty that.  The trick is not to just squirt it all in at once, give it a little time to soak in after you put about half in, then slowly add the rest.

I get to work on many LC+ locomotives.  Many people buy them for kids and most of what comes to me has the smoke fluid filled to the top.  Try reading the book and following what John stated.  The LC+ engines are impressive smoking engines if properly filled.  The smoke unit used in the LC+ locomotives is a good one.

John and Marty are right.  I have a LC+ 6-81307  4-6-2 Hudson, see http://www.lionel.com/products...-6-2-pacific-6-81307 (which I am going to post in the For Sale section of the forum).  After being in the box for 3 years, I took it out to give it a run.  I put several doses of 5 drops into the stack with soak time and short run times between each dose.  It produced smoke after a minute but that quickly decreased.  I put several more doses of 5 drops into the stack with soak time in between.  Now it produces great smoke.  Even though the manual states 5 drops only, adequate doses and soak time is critical.

"Nothing has ever been accomplished by telling people to calm down" "Gen. Patton- 1945"

Ted Bertiger posted:

LCCA was selling direct at York in front of the Orange hall with their fastrack modular layout. It is Lionel's responsibility to get the engine repaired right. LCCA is merged with the Lionel Railroaders Club so this is not an As Is purchase. LCCA is a bonafide dealer as well as an operating arm of Lionel.

Ted,  How did you learn  that LCCA is an operating arm of Lionel?  John in Lansing, ILL

rattler21 posted:

Ted Bertiger posted:

LCCA was selling direct at York in front of the Orange hall with their fastrack modular layout. It is Lionel's responsibility to get the engine repaired right. LCCA is merged with the Lionel Railroaders Club so this is not an As Is purchase. LCCA is a bonafide dealer as well as an operating arm of Lionel.

Ted,  How did you learn  that LCCA is an operating arm of Lionel?  John in Lansing, ILL

The LCCA has been affiliated with Lionel ever since it took over the Lionel Railroaders Club.

Dave,  How do you define affiliated?  Contractual?  Principal - Agent?  How did LCCA 'take over' Lionel Railroaders Club?  John 

Dave,  How do you define affiliated?  Contractual?  Principal - Agent?  How did LCCA 'take over' Lionel Railroaders Club?  John 

I'd guess there are threads discussing the LCCA absorbing the Lionel Railroaders Club.

C W Burfle posted:

Dave,  How do you define affiliated?  Contractual?  Principal - Agent?  How did LCCA 'take over' Lionel Railroaders Club?  John 

I'd guess there are threads discussing the LCCA absorbing the Lionel Railroaders Club.

John, I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make. The LCCA makes the relationship pretty clear on its website:

https://www.lionelcollectors.org/lionel-connection/

Jim,  I've gone over it several times and cannot find where LCCA is an operating arm of Lionel. John

"LCCA is an operating arm of Lionel. "

That's because they are not.  They are an entirely independent club with a strong business relationship with Lionel.  Lionel has no legal say in LCCA operations to my knowledge.

rattler21 posted:

Jim,  I've gone over it several times and cannot find where LCCA is an operating arm of Lionel. John

Gotcha. No, they’re not.

As a rule, I add ONE FULL DROPPER of JT’s to a fan-driven unit at the end of an operating session.

And to the OP:  I’d still open the hood and check for a loose board before sending it back.

Jon

UPDATE:   The engine has officially left Lionel, and is on its way home again.  Fingers are crossed that it comes home as good as new.  Will update everyone once we get it, and run it. 

UPDATE: The train has arrived back from Lionel, for the second time.  Ran the train for an hour tonight, and everything seems to be working great!   When the train was shipped back this time, it was put in a brand new Lionel box, for the GP7 UP.  Styrofoam had been placed all around the engine.  A lot more care was taken, this time around.  They must have had a terrible day the first time I sent it in.  

All is well - that ends well - enjoy your engine!

GLAD TO HEAR THIS ENJOY THE ENGINE

SAL GAMBINO/DIRECTOR LCCA

Post office is tough on these trains.  2 this year with damage to the trucks.  Got a few calls to make.

I don't see the damage...something to do with the truck removed from the engine?