Lionel Wide Vision Caboose "CSX" w/ Camera

Never any discussion on a focus knob. Let us know, if it is an issue gonna cancel ours prior to pick-up.

Is there a protective plastic film over the window, similar to the theater car?

I am getting mine in a day or so so I will let you know.

Thanks....I did check for any film on the caboose window and none apparant.   I have had it in all resolution formats the app provides but it it is still noticiably blurry.

-Pete

Apparently they only did a partial shipment on these. Charles Ro just told me 4/10/19 for the PRR version.

Maybe the second shipment will be in focus.

Perhaps Lionel will take a cue from NASA with their Hubble telescope, and provide a corrective lens.  

I got my shipping notice from Charles Ro today so my Norfolk Southern should be here Thursday. 

Neal Jeter

Those who do receive their Cabooses this week, please post your impressions.

-Pete

Wow, I just can't believe they could screw up anything. Guess the quality control still isn't in place.

I took apart one of my two theater cars and detailed the interior.   In doing so I had to remove the camera mount and I played around with the location of the camera and I found the closer you moved it to the glass the worse the picture got.  It was more noticeable on pictures than in the video feed.   I’ve played around with these quite a bit.   These are not the high quality video machines everyone is accustomed too.   But I think for what they are and what they cost it’s a deal.   Now with that being said I am I anxious  to see what his issue is.  I saw video from one of these at York and it looked just like the theater cars so I’m interested to see what the deal is here.   Everyone keep there pants on until we get some more of these in folks hands.   Then we can all be ****ed.  Let’s hope not.  

Finger print or dirty lens maybe? I was about to buy a BN version. Ruh row

There was a time when I took a lot of photos.  A common comment in photo mags was to put a plain glass filter over the expensive glassware to protect it.  I also had a desire for undistorted images.  That led me to set a tripod at the front door and a large gridded target at the fireplace.  I had a shifting lens that I could rotate through 180 deg and a 2x extender made for short lenses.  This gave me a 70mm side looking lens that would copy onto slide film the same detail visible to the eye at the camera location.

I was hunting big game.  I had spotted a new Ontario Northland 50-foot boxcar in dark blue and the yellow zig-zags, without a spot of dust or dirt on it, up in Baltimore set out next to a little-traveled public street.  I went to the tripod, slipped my gridded focusing screen in, and tested for pincushioning in both directions followed by a check that the detents to flop 180-deg to look sideways the other way was exactly in the same plane.  To Baltimore!  Kodak made two 10 x 7.5" color print enlargements for splicing.  I think they were very close to being exactly O-scale (each technician used his own magnification for "8x10 full frame", but the Kodak color fidelity was always impressive).

The moral here is, if you want undistorted results, don't put anything thicker than a gel film filter in the lens' light path.  Then only if you have to.  So, having spent $25 on this TV camera, cut the molded plastic insert out of the window.  Wasn't that intended to diffuse light, not transmit it?     --Frank

PS-- Camera should be able to see signals if towed behind TMCC F3 that uses postwar-dimensioned shells and has a trailing cab (F3A) unit.  In rare instances, a train could have a caboose on both ends. 

My Theater car picture when i first put it in the track seemed a little blurry - so i was debating to send it back -but  i tried it yesterday and it is clear and provides a great picture - didn't do anything  - i am getting a caboose this week and will try it - hopefully it will be ok 

Grampstrains posted:

tom21pa posted:

Wow, I just can't believe they could screw up anything. Guess the quality control still isn't in place.

Nothing like making an issue when we don't know for sure there is one.

Indeed. Unless I'm reading the thread wrong there's been a grand total of one person reporting an "issue" so far. Sure, that may change over time but let's get a valid sample. Duh.

 Pete, if you tried it out as soon as you got it. I wonder if the camera lens could be fogged due to the cold temperature of the mail truck/box/outside . 

I also wonder if this explains why Ted K's theatre car was blurry "at first".

I imagine it would take a least a couple of  hours for the inside of the car to warm and a fogged camera lens to clear.

i did run it in a cold garage - good idea that the temperature may fog the lens

thanks

I totally agree...mine may be an isolated incident....I thought since I had mine...others should have theirs too.

just looking to see if anyone else has this problem or if I overlooked something.

-Pete

Can you share of video from the caboose?

Here are two snapshots from the cupola....picture quality is the same whether it's a video or a snapshot.

tom21pa posted:

Wow, I just can't believe they could screw up anything. Guess the quality control still isn't in place.

this whole ordeal reminds me of the crayon car where the crayons would not even fit into the holes in the cover 

for the crayon hopper.

BFI66 posted:

Here are two snapshots from the cupola....picture quality is the same whethernits a video or a snapshot.

 

Looks pretty standard to me.   Very comparable to the theater cars.  

Really....that is in HD mode too.....not what I expected at all....

-Pete

Not a complaint....just an observation......original post was just looking for impressions and whether I overlooked something to make the pic more focused.  

-Pete

BFI66 posted:

Really....that is in HD mode too.....not what I expected at all....

-Pete

The price point on these is roughly 20-25 dollars more than the standard widevision.   I respectfully disagree on expectations of a 20 dollar camera setup and a free app.  

And I respectfully disagree with you....now can I hear from someone who actually has the caboose and whether they experienced the same issue......

-Pete

I dont have one but I saw a video on a O gauge FB page this morning using one of these caboose cams the guy just got and it looks good! 

Jim

Thanks Jim.....I’m just looking for good...not blurry.  I understand that I am not getting NSA quality.....but you see the pic.....it looks like the lense needs to be tweaked a bit.....something is definitely wrong here.

-Pete

The image should be much clearer than that. I'm going to look into some samples today.

Thank you, Dave

Appreciate the reply....

-Pete

Those images are NOT the same quality as the images from my theater car.  The images from my theater car are much more clear and crisp than the images from the caboose camera.  Jeremy Ferrell do you have a theater car?  

I assume the resolution on the camera can be set? What’s the resolution?

T4TT posted:

Those images are NOT the same quality as the images from my theater car.  The images from my theater car are much more clear and crisp than the images from the caboose camera.  Jeremy Ferrell do you have a theater car?  

I do Sir.   I have two.   Clearly I’m missing something here quality wise everyone else is seeing.   Hopefully my caboose cam arrives soon so I can compare them.  

BFI66 posted:

And I respectfully disagree with you....now can I hear from someone who actually has the caboose and whether they experienced the same issue......

-Pete

If Dave says it’s a problem then it must be.   Regardless hopefully it’s an easy painless fix to get us.  As a community what we’re looking for here.    

breezinup posted:

Perhaps Lionel will take a cue from NASA with their Hubble telescope, and provide a corrective lens.  

What, me worry?

My Union  Pacific camera Caboose is somewhere between China and my house.   Looking forward to receiving it. 

shawn posted:

I assume the resolution on the camera can be set? What’s the resolution?

Shawn my above pic are in HD.

-Pete

carsntrains posted:

I dont have one but I saw a video on a O gauge FB page this morning using one of these caboose cams the guy just got and it looks good! 

Jim

What FB group was that on please?

Bill

Jeremy F. if your theater cars are generating images as blurred as the ones posted in this thread you may want to consider requesting RAs from Lionel.  My UP theater car and the car on demo at my LHS generate images far better than those posted in this thread.

Hi all

Just received my caboose from Charlie Ro and have been able to play with it a little.   I knew nothing about it or how to operate it and I have to say the manual is lacking in this area in my opinion.  It eludes to the fact a certain function exits but fails to tell you how to use it.   I did discover a couple of things in my one hour session with it that may help someone out with theirs.  It was easy to setup without a hitch. I used my iPad to display the image.  The first thing I finally figured out was that mine was set to normal image.   After setting it to HD the image was much better. You can set this by tapping the screen which should give you the settings at top and bottom and then tap the setting at the very top center. It will be either HD, High, Normal or Low definition. When you tap it it will give you the menu to select HD.  The other thing is the focus and pan adjustment.  You can access them by touching the screen with two fingers wide apart and bring them together to center screen.  This will set the focus to distant view.   I find this to be probably the best overall setting for most viewing and the clearest. To focus in closer touch the screen with two fingers together in the center of the screen And slide them apart towards the outer edge of the screen.  This will focus in closer.  You must focus in closer for the pan function to work from what I can see.  Now you can touch the screen with one finger and pan the camera left, right and up, down.  

After an hour or so with it I am very happy overall with the quality of the picture.

Good luck to all. I hope you can easily understand my lame directions.

I will post some pics when I figure out how to get them from the app.

Al

Al, great answer to the wide vision Caboose. Which one did you get. I actually purchased 4 to replace some I plan to sell. My theater car works fine. I look to see Dave with Lionel chime back in this thread. Happy Railroading 

I tested the prototype that I built and I also pulled one from stock to test. Both have clear views. Note though that the image is going to be blurry for anything close - I.E. the roof of the caboose. But anything more than 6 inches away should be clear.

To the O.P. - I recommend calling Service for a RA to see what we can do to fix it.

Thank you, Dave.....appreciate you testing these and getting back to us so quick with your impressions.   I will do just that!

-Pete

Hey Larry

i got the NS.  Its my first and so far really like it.   Here is a pic I took today.

thanks and Happy Railroading

Al

Bub posted:

Hey Larry

i got the NS.  Its my first and so far really like it.   Here is a pic I took today.

thanks and Happy Railroading

Al

That looks perfect...  looking forward to my UP caboose!

Have the Pennsylvania and Union Pacific Camera Cabooses arrived to dealers yet.  Are they in the second shipment?  I found the CSX, NS and SF that I wanted.  I am still looking for the Pennsylvania and Union Pacific. 

Sincerely, John Rowlen

just received my SF caboose; it's a really nicely detailed caboose even without the camera.

I just got my NS Caboose today! Turned out excellent, and came without problems.

My SF arrived today.  Works great.  Clear.   It's very cool

I can not get my PC to find the Camera. I follow the instructions and when I click on the setup tool it does not find the Camera. I do not get the firewall screen just before the search screen. I'm running Win 10 and Norton Security Suite. Any ideas how to fix the problem before I send it back to the dealer as defective.

maxmn_98 posted:

I can not get my PC to find the Camera. I follow the instructions and when I click on the setup tool it does not find the Camera. I do not get the firewall screen just before the search screen. I'm running Win 10 and Norton Security Suite. Any ideas how to fix the problem before I send it back to the dealer as defective.

Did you connect the car's WiFi to the computer's WiFi? If the WiFi on your computer cannot see the car as available to connect to, try resetting the camera in the car. Check the troubleshooting section at the end of the manual on how to do that. And make sure the camera on/off switch on the bottom of the car is in the on position.

The cameras run on WiFi not Bluetooth.

Does your PC have a WiFi adapter?

My PC has a wifi adapter and the PC is hooked into my secure wifi network.  I use the Norton Security Suite and I tried it with the firewall disabled in order to get image 16. When I installed the IPC MultiViewSetup, I do not get the firewall screen.  I've checked the on/off switch a number of times and it is on. Also I tried the reset button with the power on. The power to the track is at least 16+ volts.  I do not have Android device, a Windows smart phone and Amazon Fires which are not true Android devices. If I do not get it working by tomorrow morning its going back to the dealer as being defective.   

One thing to try is turn off and disconnect power from your router (allow to exist in this state for at least 15 seconds).  Also while the router is down, shut down/power down (or turn wifi off) on you laptop/computer and the camera.  Connect power to your router and turn it on.  Allow the router to reboot.  (Watch your phone or other device to see when it has wifi signal again.)  Then power up or turn wifi back on on your laptop/computer and the camera.  Sometimes asynchronous encryption keys mean wifi devices lose touch with each other.  Resets like this usually enable them to find one another again.  Most often with older equipment, but just thought I'd throw this out there in case it helps.  

Sgaugian posted:

One thing to try is turn off and disconnect power from your router (allow to exist in this state for at least 15 seconds).  Also while the router is down, shut down/power down (or turn wifi off) on you laptop/computer and the camera.  Connect power to your router and turn it on.  Allow the router to reboot.  (Watch your phone or other device to see when it has wifi signal again.)  Then power up or turn wifi back on on your laptop/computer and the camera.  Sometimes asynchronous encryption keys mean wifi devices lose touch with each other.  Resets like this usually enable them to find one another again.  Most often with older equipment, but just thought I'd throw++1 this out there in case it helps.  

+1 on this.

Your PC won’t see the camera in the caboose until you connect your PC to the wifi in the caboose.  If your PC’s wifi connection is to your secure home wifi, you won’t see the camera.  I have the CSX Theatre car, and I am pretty sure they setup the same.  How to connect to the caboose wifi should be in the instructions, at least it was for the Theatre Car.

Just got mine today and really no issues with the directions.  Haven't tried using it with my PC but with my android phone very simple.  About 5 minutes to set everything up.  Here are some pictures from the caboose camera.

Got my CSX caboose today and the cam is very blurring. distorted and really not unsaleable I am using the program on my I-pad. I guess going to have  to contact Lionel in the morning

QC still about the same I see.

I have a similar issue. My Santa Fe caboose is clear and focused, but my Chessie caboose is blurry. Will also have to contact Lionel. 

Just got my Sante Fe Caboose - put it on track - camera worked fine - clear picture  had a little delay in finding camera but when it picked it up it works fine

Guessing CSX cabooses only having the problem?      Still waiting for my Union Pacific. 

It appears that the caboose is putting out a signal according to an app on my fire (WIFI Signals). How ever it appears that a my secure network will not let it connect. I turned off the Norton protection for both the fire wall and the auto protection. I also tried SGAUGIAN method twice. Note: to everyone I fellowed the instructions in 78-4231-250 3/18 (Lionel WiFi Camera App Owner's Manual) step by step every time I tried hooking up the Camera. Anyone have anything else that I could try?

gunrunnerjohn posted:

QC still about the same I see.

What does that mean?... That forum members  just so happen to end up with ALL of the defective models making things seem worse than they really are?

Received my Burlington Northern today and everything checks out fine.

@maxmn_98 You are connecting to the Access Point on the Caboose correct? Meaning instead of using your home WiFi you would connect to the access point on the caboose to set it up.

Has anyone asked Dave/Lionel if the Caboose/Theater Car camera are the

identical product? I have caboose version on order and sure would like to

know!! UnclePeteRR

Matt, How do you set up an access point.  I do not detect any  other WIFI signals on my computer.

I started another thread on this. My CSX cam caboose comes up on my pc wifi, but when I open the app, the cam has a 0.0.0.0.80 IP address. And no amount of fiddling on the configuration helps. What causes this and how can I fix it? My pc has a wired ethernet connection to the house wifi router, but I am trying to wifi to the wifi card in the pc with the CAM. Is that an issue? I am successful using the LCS system with wifi this way and also use the Legacy Utility with wifi this way...just not the CAM

Further, I guess the WiFi does hook up, but the IP address is that bunch of zeros on the pc app. Also, I changed the password on the iPad but what is the username and password on the pc app? Are they connected or completely separate?

I finally got it working and what is missing from the instructions for PC or they assume we would know what to do is that the caboose and the theater car are their own WiFi network and you need to first connect to that network before you do anything else. Then load the software and everything works. It worked for me. The only thing that I do not like it is a non secure network.

maxmn_98 posted:

I finally got it working and what is missing from the instructions for PC or they assume we would know what to do is that the caboose and the theater car are their own WiFi network and you need to first connect to that network before you do anything else. Then load the software and everything works. It worked for me. The only thing that I do not like it is a non secure network.

Glad to see you got it working.

Please forgive this question (I haven't received mine yet, so haven't got a set of instructions to read).

Are you saying the App is included in the caboose itself, and that is where you get it for your device?

I was considering trying to get the app on my iPod ahead of time before I actually pick up my caboose so I can fully check it out before leaving the store to check the picture quality.  If the App is on the caboose, obviously that won't be easy to do.

-Dave

Once you connect to it you can go into the camera settings and put it on your own WiFi network which is what I did.

OK...I went to the PC wifi and found this...

CM4CC8-860DEF97142F-29D1CC

which I connected successfully to. Then I brought up the app

IP Camera Search Tool v3.0

and ended up with this when I clicked on "search" and ticked the box for "Configure camera's network settings"

My questions are:

1. How to I get the right IP address into the search results so that when I click "Open" it takes me to a valid web page?

2. What is the username and password here for? And how do I change it? when I try, it doesn't change to what I typed in when I close the app and reopen it.

3. What am I supposed to do with the statement "Please check if the camera's IPO address, blah blah blah...". When I try to edit the "Camera's IP address...etc" panel in configure, nothing changes in the IP Camera search window where the 0.0.0.0:80 IP address appears and no good results from the editing.

NOW on the iPhone, everything is seamless. The camera comes up on the iPhone or/and iPad app, I get a recommendation to reset the password which defaults to "8888", which I did set to CSX. And everything works just fine.

This doesn't help either...

clicking apply after setting all the Camera Network Information does nothing, still wondering about Username and Password, etc.

I have mine on my internal WiFi which I suggest you do. I have it working on my phone and PC, however this thing performs better on phones and tablets. 

After you get it on your WiFi, run the search tool and just click the open button. If you are presented with a login use admin as the username and leave the password blank. See if that works for you. 

What do you mean by internal WiFi. The WiFi configuration on the pc and not the house WiFi? That’s what I did, but when I click on open with that bad IP address, I get a “nothing found” web page...naturally.

Your house WiFi access point. You can put the caboose on your internal WiFi instead of connecting to it so it will exist in your network with a reachable IP Address. It’s much easier in my opinion to use it this way. Best way to do this is via the phone app. Click on the gear icon on the camera list and choose device settings, then WiFi and you can then add it to your house AP. 

That works well for all the devices. Thank you so much! I had thought that I was supposed to connect to the device WiFi since that worked for the iPad. However connected to the house WiFi now works for iPad, phone, and pc windows computer. 

Thanks again,

No problem Chuck, I’m a Network Admin, and I have to say the instuctions could use a bit more detail when it come to connecting it to your own network which really isn’t explained. On a positive note the device itself is fantastic and I’m glad Lionel is making these.

This post might help those still having problems, including the link in the post.

https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/...52#82241647796235452

BTW, my CSX caboose has a sharp picture.

 Speaking on what I see on the screen here,  I'm not even sure I would call that just blurry. There is a shadow frame/split image I'm seeing too.  It could very well be reflections, but I wouldn't rule out rendering or lens issues.  That one is "unacceptable" imo too. I might try pulling glass if not glued, a flaw in that does seem a likely cause too; nothing is in focus at any distance.

I have one of those mini "spy" cameras you see at train shows.  It has a lens that can be turned (threaded) to correct the focus, can the same be done to this camera?

Good question!

-Pete

Caboose vs Theater Car camera: Did Dave or anybody confirm they

are same item and therefore should render they same quality picture.

I ask because the price point is significant.  UnclepeteRR

UnclePeteRR posted:

Caboose vs Theater Car camera: Did Dave or anybody confirm they are same item and therefore should render they same quality picture. I ask because the price point is significant.  UnclepeteRR

I can not confirm the hardware, but the instruction book for my theater car has both pictured on the cover:

Thanks Dave, That would indicate it is the same product

unless its not. I read a great book on the "Candy Bombers"

but can't remember the name. UnclepeteRR

I agree with Matt.  Connecting to your own wifi network is not explained.

Here are some pics from my CSX:

I'm still experimenting with this.  The largest issue is a red-shift, when there isn't a lot of light.  More, later....

Jerry

Bob Delbridge posted:

I have one of those mini "spy" cameras you see at train shows.  It has a lens that can be turned (threaded) to correct the focus, can the same be done to this camera?

the original fcc testing for the canoose does motion a adjustable lease in the paperwork provided by the camera manufacturer. If that made it into the final production is another thing. Find my post und or fcc testing link..might be some  other interesting things in there

Bob Delbridge posted:

I have one of those mini "spy" cameras you see at train shows.  It has a lens that can be turned (threaded) to correct the focus, can the same be done to this camera?

https://fccid.io/LIV-WIFICAM1

this should answer some questions

We ran tests on my new NS caboose this weekend and found the images very blurry.  We decided to remove the window infront of the camera and the results were fantastic.  The image is now very sharp.  The window has two layers of plastic and was degrading the image.  The catalog NS was shown with a black roof but my version was dressed in a silver roof.  One of the middle side windows was not fitted with clear plastic.

Duncan

Duncan H W Foster posted:

We ran tests on my new NS caboose this weekend and found the images very blurry.  We decided to remove the window infront of the camera and the results were fantastic.  The image is now very sharp.  The window has two layers of plastic and was degrading the image.  The catalog NS was shown with a black roof but my version was dressed in a silver roof.  One of the middle side windows was not fitted with clear plastic.

Duncan

Did you happen to notice if that window was not very clear to look thru with your eye? or any defects in the window?  or did it look like any other plastic window?

just curious since removing it solved the problem.

The window looked a lot like the others on the caboose.  But looking through it you could see the image would be degraded.  You have to be careful taking the caboose apart as there is a fair amount of wiring to be considered.  We found the truck locations were not optomized to allow the four long screws to be removed easily.  However the end result justified the labor. I am a photographer and spend thousands on very clear glass for my lenses.  Model plastic just does not do the trick.

Duncan

Duncan H W Foster posted:

The window looked a lot like the others on the caboose.  But looking through it you could see the image would be degraded.  You have to be careful taking the caboose apart as there is a fair amount of wiring to be considered.  We found the truck locations were not optomized to allow the four long screws to be removed easily.  However the end result justified the labor. I am a photographer and spend thousands on very clear glass for my lenses.  Model plastic just does not do the trick.

Duncan

Just wondering if anyone else has tried this removing the plastic window trick? I’m scared to try taking mine apart, but I’m not really thrilled with the image as-is from the camera.

First let me say that I don't advocate for disassembly of the caboose.  It is made to be easily assembled, not taken apart.  Having said that, I just spent 45 minutes getting the thing apart and removing the window. 

WHAT A DIFFERENCE!!!!!!  Once I get the thing re assembled I will post a picture or two.

On the software note, I am using my PC (Windows 7 with FireFox default browser) and the IPCmultiview application to view the image.  It works great!!!  Still disappointed that my tablet cannot load the app but now that I have the PC working well, I am satisfied.

This is a great product.  Mucho Kudos to Lionel for bringing this to market.

Rolland

In the alternative....slightly press the side of the window with a small flathead screw driver.  There is not much glue holding the window into the frame....it should pop the window into the caboose for safe keeping. 😜.

This method saves you from screwing up any wiring or the hassle of removing the caboose from the frame.

And yes it does make a difference.....  Time to Completion....5 seconds

-Pete 

In my install, the camera was too close to the window to allow the window to drop away.  So I had to take the car apart.  Here is the picture I just took with the window removed.  This is at max resolution.  Before window removal the image of the writing on the transformers was just a blur.

Rolland

I'm wondering if the window is a widening lens. But of course if it's clouded, then what good is it? It could easily get clouded if the glue was sloppy.

Or maybe adjusts the focus from infinity to something a bit closer for better caboose roof definition.