Lionel Wide Vision Caboose "CSX" w/ Camera

Never any discussion on a focus knob. Let us know, if it is an issue gonna cancel ours prior to pick-up.

Is there a protective plastic film over the window, similar to the theater car?

I am getting mine in a day or so so I will let you know.

Thanks....I did check for any film on the caboose window and none apparant.   I have had it in all resolution formats the app provides but it it is still noticiably blurry.

-Pete

Apparently they only did a partial shipment on these. Charles Ro just told me 4/10/19 for the PRR version.

Maybe the second shipment will be in focus.

Perhaps Lionel will take a cue from NASA with their Hubble telescope, and provide a corrective lens.  

I got my shipping notice from Charles Ro today so my Norfolk Southern should be here Thursday. 

Neal Jeter

Those who do receive their Cabooses this week, please post your impressions.

-Pete

Wow, I just can't believe they could screw up anything. Guess the quality control still isn't in place.

I took apart one of my two theater cars and detailed the interior.   In doing so I had to remove the camera mount and I played around with the location of the camera and I found the closer you moved it to the glass the worse the picture got.  It was more noticeable on pictures than in the video feed.   I’ve played around with these quite a bit.   These are not the high quality video machines everyone is accustomed too.   But I think for what they are and what they cost it’s a deal.   Now with that being said I am I anxious  to see what his issue is.  I saw video from one of these at York and it looked just like the theater cars so I’m interested to see what the deal is here.   Everyone keep there pants on until we get some more of these in folks hands.   Then we can all be ****ed.  Let’s hope not.  

Finger print or dirty lens maybe? I was about to buy a BN version. Ruh row

There was a time when I took a lot of photos.  A common comment in photo mags was to put a plain glass filter over the expensive glassware to protect it.  I also had a desire for undistorted images.  That led me to set a tripod at the front door and a large gridded target at the fireplace.  I had a shifting lens that I could rotate through 180 deg and a 2x extender made for short lenses.  This gave me a 70mm side looking lens that would copy onto slide film the same detail visible to the eye at the camera location.

I was hunting big game.  I had spotted a new Ontario Northland 50-foot boxcar in dark blue and the yellow zig-zags, without a spot of dust or dirt on it, up in Baltimore set out next to a little-traveled public street.  I went to the tripod, slipped my gridded focusing screen in, and tested for pincushioning in both directions followed by a check that the detents to flop 180-deg to look sideways the other way was exactly in the same plane.  To Baltimore!  Kodak made two 10 x 7.5" color print enlargements for splicing.  I think they were very close to being exactly O-scale (each technician used his own magnification for "8x10 full frame", but the Kodak color fidelity was always impressive).

The moral here is, if you want undistorted results, don't put anything thicker than a gel film filter in the lens' light path.  Then only if you have to.  So, having spent $25 on this TV camera, cut the molded plastic insert out of the window.  Wasn't that intended to diffuse light, not transmit it?     --Frank

PS-- Camera should be able to see signals if towed behind TMCC F3 that uses postwar-dimensioned shells and has a trailing cab (F3A) unit.  In rare instances, a train could have a caboose on both ends. 

My Theater car picture when i first put it in the track seemed a little blurry - so i was debating to send it back -but  i tried it yesterday and it is clear and provides a great picture - didn't do anything  - i am getting a caboose this week and will try it - hopefully it will be ok 

Grampstrains posted:

tom21pa posted:

Wow, I just can't believe they could screw up anything. Guess the quality control still isn't in place.

Nothing like making an issue when we don't know for sure there is one.

Indeed. Unless I'm reading the thread wrong there's been a grand total of one person reporting an "issue" so far. Sure, that may change over time but let's get a valid sample. Duh.

 Pete, if you tried it out as soon as you got it. I wonder if the camera lens could be fogged due to the cold temperature of the mail truck/box/outside . 

I also wonder if this explains why Ted K's theatre car was blurry "at first".

I imagine it would take a least a couple of  hours for the inside of the car to warm and a fogged camera lens to clear.

i did run it in a cold garage - good idea that the temperature may fog the lens

thanks

I totally agree...mine may be an isolated incident....I thought since I had mine...others should have theirs too.

just looking to see if anyone else has this problem or if I overlooked something.

-Pete

Can you share of video from the caboose?

Here are two snapshots from the cupola....picture quality is the same whether it's a video or a snapshot.

tom21pa posted:

Wow, I just can't believe they could screw up anything. Guess the quality control still isn't in place.

this whole ordeal reminds me of the crayon car where the crayons would not even fit into the holes in the cover 

for the crayon hopper.

BFI66 posted:

Here are two snapshots from the cupola....picture quality is the same whethernits a video or a snapshot.

 

Looks pretty standard to me.   Very comparable to the theater cars.  

Really....that is in HD mode too.....not what I expected at all....

-Pete

Not a complaint....just an observation......original post was just looking for impressions and whether I overlooked something to make the pic more focused.  

-Pete

BFI66 posted:

Really....that is in HD mode too.....not what I expected at all....

-Pete

The price point on these is roughly 20-25 dollars more than the standard widevision.   I respectfully disagree on expectations of a 20 dollar camera setup and a free app.  

And I respectfully disagree with you....now can I hear from someone who actually has the caboose and whether they experienced the same issue......

-Pete

I dont have one but I saw a video on a O gauge FB page this morning using one of these caboose cams the guy just got and it looks good! 

Jim

Thanks Jim.....I’m just looking for good...not blurry.  I understand that I am not getting NSA quality.....but you see the pic.....it looks like the lense needs to be tweaked a bit.....something is definitely wrong here.

-Pete

The image should be much clearer than that. I'm going to look into some samples today.

Thank you, Dave

Appreciate the reply....

-Pete

Those images are NOT the same quality as the images from my theater car.  The images from my theater car are much more clear and crisp than the images from the caboose camera.  Jeremy Ferrell do you have a theater car?  

I assume the resolution on the camera can be set? What’s the resolution?

T4TT posted:

Those images are NOT the same quality as the images from my theater car.  The images from my theater car are much more clear and crisp than the images from the caboose camera.  Jeremy Ferrell do you have a theater car?  

I do Sir.   I have two.   Clearly I’m missing something here quality wise everyone else is seeing.   Hopefully my caboose cam arrives soon so I can compare them.  

BFI66 posted:

And I respectfully disagree with you....now can I hear from someone who actually has the caboose and whether they experienced the same issue......

-Pete

If Dave says it’s a problem then it must be.   Regardless hopefully it’s an easy painless fix to get us.  As a community what we’re looking for here.    

breezinup posted:

Perhaps Lionel will take a cue from NASA with their Hubble telescope, and provide a corrective lens.  

What, me worry?

My Union  Pacific camera Caboose is somewhere between China and my house.   Looking forward to receiving it. 

shawn posted:

I assume the resolution on the camera can be set? What’s the resolution?

Shawn my above pic are in HD.

-Pete

carsntrains posted:

I dont have one but I saw a video on a O gauge FB page this morning using one of these caboose cams the guy just got and it looks good! 

Jim

What FB group was that on please?

Bill

Jeremy F. if your theater cars are generating images as blurred as the ones posted in this thread you may want to consider requesting RAs from Lionel.  My UP theater car and the car on demo at my LHS generate images far better than those posted in this thread.

Hi all

Just received my caboose from Charlie Ro and have been able to play with it a little.   I knew nothing about it or how to operate it and I have to say the manual is lacking in this area in my opinion.  It eludes to the fact a certain function exits but fails to tell you how to use it.   I did discover a couple of things in my one hour session with it that may help someone out with theirs.  It was easy to setup without a hitch. I used my iPad to display the image.  The first thing I finally figured out was that mine was set to normal image.   After setting it to HD the image was much better. You can set this by tapping the screen which should give you the settings at top and bottom and then tap the setting at the very top center. It will be either HD, High, Normal or Low definition. When you tap it it will give you the menu to select HD.  The other thing is the focus and pan adjustment.  You can access them by touching the screen with two fingers wide apart and bring them together to center screen.  This will set the focus to distant view.   I find this to be probably the best overall setting for most viewing and the clearest. To focus in closer touch the screen with two fingers together in the center of the screen And slide them apart towards the outer edge of the screen.  This will focus in closer.  You must focus in closer for the pan function to work from what I can see.  Now you can touch the screen with one finger and pan the camera left, right and up, down.  

After an hour or so with it I am very happy overall with the quality of the picture.

Good luck to all. I hope you can easily understand my lame directions.

I will post some pics when I figure out how to get them from the app.

Al

Al, great answer to the wide vision Caboose. Which one did you get. I actually purchased 4 to replace some I plan to sell. My theater car works fine. I look to see Dave with Lionel chime back in this thread. Happy Railroading 

I tested the prototype that I built and I also pulled one from stock to test. Both have clear views. Note though that the image is going to be blurry for anything close - I.E. the roof of the caboose. But anything more than 6 inches away should be clear.

To the O.P. - I recommend calling Service for a RA to see what we can do to fix it.

Thank you, Dave.....appreciate you testing these and getting back to us so quick with your impressions.   I will do just that!

-Pete

Hey Larry

i got the NS.  Its my first and so far really like it.   Here is a pic I took today.

thanks and Happy Railroading

Al

Bub posted:

Hey Larry

i got the NS.  Its my first and so far really like it.   Here is a pic I took today.

thanks and Happy Railroading

Al

That looks perfect...  looking forward to my UP caboose!

Have the Pennsylvania and Union Pacific Camera Cabooses arrived to dealers yet.  Are they in the second shipment?  I found the CSX, NS and SF that I wanted.  I am still looking for the Pennsylvania and Union Pacific. 

Sincerely, John Rowlen

just received my SF caboose; it's a really nicely detailed caboose even without the camera.

I just got my NS Caboose today! Turned out excellent, and came without problems.

My SF arrived today.  Works great.  Clear.   It's very cool

I can not get my PC to find the Camera. I follow the instructions and when I click on the setup tool it does not find the Camera. I do not get the firewall screen just before the search screen. I'm running Win 10 and Norton Security Suite. Any ideas how to fix the problem before I send it back to the dealer as defective.

maxmn_98 posted:

I can not get my PC to find the Camera. I follow the instructions and when I click on the setup tool it does not find the Camera. I do not get the firewall screen just before the search screen. I'm running Win 10 and Norton Security Suite. Any ideas how to fix the problem before I send it back to the dealer as defective.

Did you connect the car's WiFi to the computer's WiFi? If the WiFi on your computer cannot see the car as available to connect to, try resetting the camera in the car. Check the troubleshooting section at the end of the manual on how to do that. And make sure the camera on/off switch on the bottom of the car is in the on position.

The cameras run on WiFi not Bluetooth.

Does your PC have a WiFi adapter?

My PC has a wifi adapter and the PC is hooked into my secure wifi network.  I use the Norton Security Suite and I tried it with the firewall disabled in order to get image 16. When I installed the IPC MultiViewSetup, I do not get the firewall screen.  I've checked the on/off switch a number of times and it is on. Also I tried the reset button with the power on. The power to the track is at least 16+ volts.  I do not have Android device, a Windows smart phone and Amazon Fires which are not true Android devices. If I do not get it working by tomorrow morning its going back to the dealer as being defective.   

One thing to try is turn off and disconnect power from your router (allow to exist in this state for at least 15 seconds).  Also while the router is down, shut down/power down (or turn wifi off) on you laptop/computer and the camera.  Connect power to your router and turn it on.  Allow the router to reboot.  (Watch your phone or other device to see when it has wifi signal again.)  Then power up or turn wifi back on on your laptop/computer and the camera.  Sometimes asynchronous encryption keys mean wifi devices lose touch with each other.  Resets like this usually enable them to find one another again.  Most often with older equipment, but just thought I'd throw this out there in case it helps.  

Sgaugian posted:

One thing to try is turn off and disconnect power from your router (allow to exist in this state for at least 15 seconds).  Also while the router is down, shut down/power down (or turn wifi off) on you laptop/computer and the camera.  Connect power to your router and turn it on.  Allow the router to reboot.  (Watch your phone or other device to see when it has wifi signal again.)  Then power up or turn wifi back on on your laptop/computer and the camera.  Sometimes asynchronous encryption keys mean wifi devices lose touch with each other.  Resets like this usually enable them to find one another again.  Most often with older equipment, but just thought I'd throw++1 this out there in case it helps.  

+1 on this.

Your PC won’t see the camera in the caboose until you connect your PC to the wifi in the caboose.  If your PC’s wifi connection is to your secure home wifi, you won’t see the camera.  I have the CSX Theatre car, and I am pretty sure they setup the same.  How to connect to the caboose wifi should be in the instructions, at least it was for the Theatre Car.

Just got mine today and really no issues with the directions.  Haven't tried using it with my PC but with my android phone very simple.  About 5 minutes to set everything up.  Here are some pictures from the caboose camera.

Got my CSX caboose today and the cam is very blurring. distorted and really not unsaleable I am using the program on my I-pad. I guess going to have  to contact Lionel in the morning

QC still about the same I see.

I have a similar issue. My Santa Fe caboose is clear and focused, but my Chessie caboose is blurry. Will also have to contact Lionel. 

Just got my Sante Fe Caboose - put it on track - camera worked fine - clear picture  had a little delay in finding camera but when it picked it up it works fine

Guessing CSX cabooses only having the problem?      Still waiting for my Union Pacific. 

It appears that the caboose is putting out a signal according to an app on my fire (WIFI Signals). How ever it appears that a my secure network will not let it connect. I turned off the Norton protection for both the fire wall and the auto protection. I also tried SGAUGIAN method twice. Note: to everyone I fellowed the instructions in 78-4231-250 3/18 (Lionel WiFi Camera App Owner's Manual) step by step every time I tried hooking up the Camera. Anyone have anything else that I could try?

gunrunnerjohn posted:

QC still about the same I see.

What does that mean?... That forum members  just so happen to end up with ALL of the defective models making things seem worse than they really are?

Received my Burlington Northern today and everything checks out fine.

@maxmn_98 You are connecting to the Access Point on the Caboose correct? Meaning instead of using your home WiFi you would connect to the access point on the caboose to set it up.

Has anyone asked Dave/Lionel if the Caboose/Theater Car camera are the

identical product? I have caboose version on order and sure would like to

know!! UnclePeteRR

Matt, How do you set up an access point.  I do not detect any  other WIFI signals on my computer.

I started another thread on this. My CSX cam caboose comes up on my pc wifi, but when I open the app, the cam has a 0.0.0.0.80 IP address. And no amount of fiddling on the configuration helps. What causes this and how can I fix it? My pc has a wired ethernet connection to the house wifi router, but I am trying to wifi to the wifi card in the pc with the CAM. Is that an issue? I am successful using the LCS system with wifi this way and also use the Legacy Utility with wifi this way...just not the CAM

Further, I guess the WiFi does hook up, but the IP address is that bunch of zeros on the pc app. Also, I changed the password on the iPad but what is the username and password on the pc app? Are they connected or completely separate?

I finally got it working and what is missing from the instructions for PC or they assume we would know what to do is that the caboose and the theater car are their own WiFi network and you need to first connect to that network before you do anything else. Then load the software and everything works. It worked for me. The only thing that I do not like it is a non secure network.

maxmn_98 posted:

I finally got it working and what is missing from the instructions for PC or they assume we would know what to do is that the caboose and the theater car are their own WiFi network and you need to first connect to that network before you do anything else. Then load the software and everything works. It worked for me. The only thing that I do not like it is a non secure network.

Glad to see you got it working.

Please forgive this question (I haven't received mine yet, so haven't got a set of instructions to read).

Are you saying the App is included in the caboose itself, and that is where you get it for your device?

I was considering trying to get the app on my iPod ahead of time before I actually pick up my caboose so I can fully check it out before leaving the store to check the picture quality.  If the App is on the caboose, obviously that won't be easy to do.

-Dave

Once you connect to it you can go into the camera settings and put it on your own WiFi network which is what I did.

OK...I went to the PC wifi and found this...

CM4CC8-860DEF97142F-29D1CC

which I connected successfully to. Then I brought up the app

IP Camera Search Tool v3.0

and ended up with this when I clicked on "search" and ticked the box for "Configure camera's network settings"

My questions are:

1. How to I get the right IP address into the search results so that when I click "Open" it takes me to a valid web page?

2. What is the username and password here for? And how do I change it? when I try, it doesn't change to what I typed in when I close the app and reopen it.

3. What am I supposed to do with the statement "Please check if the camera's IPO address, blah blah blah...". When I try to edit the "Camera's IP address...etc" panel in configure, nothing changes in the IP Camera search window where the 0.0.0.0:80 IP address appears and no good results from the editing.

NOW on the iPhone, everything is seamless. The camera comes up on the iPhone or/and iPad app, I get a recommendation to reset the password which defaults to "8888", which I did set to CSX. And everything works just fine.

This doesn't help either...

clicking apply after setting all the Camera Network Information does nothing, still wondering about Username and Password, etc.

I have mine on my internal WiFi which I suggest you do. I have it working on my phone and PC, however this thing performs better on phones and tablets. 

After you get it on your WiFi, run the search tool and just click the open button. If you are presented with a login use admin as the username and leave the password blank. See if that works for you. 

What do you mean by internal WiFi. The WiFi configuration on the pc and not the house WiFi? That’s what I did, but when I click on open with that bad IP address, I get a “nothing found” web page...naturally.

Your house WiFi access point. You can put the caboose on your internal WiFi instead of connecting to it so it will exist in your network with a reachable IP Address. It’s much easier in my opinion to use it this way. Best way to do this is via the phone app. Click on the gear icon on the camera list and choose device settings, then WiFi and you can then add it to your house AP. 

That works well for all the devices. Thank you so much! I had thought that I was supposed to connect to the device WiFi since that worked for the iPad. However connected to the house WiFi now works for iPad, phone, and pc windows computer. 

Thanks again,

No problem Chuck, I’m a Network Admin, and I have to say the instuctions could use a bit more detail when it come to connecting it to your own network which really isn’t explained. On a positive note the device itself is fantastic and I’m glad Lionel is making these.

This post might help those still having problems, including the link in the post.

https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/...52#82241647796235452

BTW, my CSX caboose has a sharp picture.

 Speaking on what I see on the screen here,  I'm not even sure I would call that just blurry. There is a shadow frame/split image I'm seeing too.  It could very well be reflections, but I wouldn't rule out rendering or lens issues.  That one is "unacceptable" imo too. I might try pulling glass if not glued, a flaw in that does seem a likely cause too; nothing is in focus at any distance.

I have one of those mini "spy" cameras you see at train shows.  It has a lens that can be turned (threaded) to correct the focus, can the same be done to this camera?

Good question!

-Pete

Caboose vs Theater Car camera: Did Dave or anybody confirm they

are same item and therefore should render they same quality picture.

I ask because the price point is significant.  UnclepeteRR

UnclePeteRR posted:

Caboose vs Theater Car camera: Did Dave or anybody confirm they are same item and therefore should render they same quality picture. I ask because the price point is significant.  UnclepeteRR

I can not confirm the hardware, but the instruction book for my theater car has both pictured on the cover:

Thanks Dave, That would indicate it is the same product

unless its not. I read a great book on the "Candy Bombers"

but can't remember the name. UnclepeteRR

I agree with Matt.  Connecting to your own wifi network is not explained.

Here are some pics from my CSX:

I'm still experimenting with this.  The largest issue is a red-shift, when there isn't a lot of light.  More, later....

Jerry

Bob Delbridge posted:

I have one of those mini "spy" cameras you see at train shows.  It has a lens that can be turned (threaded) to correct the focus, can the same be done to this camera?

the original fcc testing for the canoose does motion a adjustable lease in the paperwork provided by the camera manufacturer. If that made it into the final production is another thing. Find my post und or fcc testing link..might be some  other interesting things in there

Bob Delbridge posted:

I have one of those mini "spy" cameras you see at train shows.  It has a lens that can be turned (threaded) to correct the focus, can the same be done to this camera?

https://fccid.io/LIV-WIFICAM1

this should answer some questions

We ran tests on my new NS caboose this weekend and found the images very blurry.  We decided to remove the window infront of the camera and the results were fantastic.  The image is now very sharp.  The window has two layers of plastic and was degrading the image.  The catalog NS was shown with a black roof but my version was dressed in a silver roof.  One of the middle side windows was not fitted with clear plastic.

Duncan

Duncan H W Foster posted:

We ran tests on my new NS caboose this weekend and found the images very blurry.  We decided to remove the window infront of the camera and the results were fantastic.  The image is now very sharp.  The window has two layers of plastic and was degrading the image.  The catalog NS was shown with a black roof but my version was dressed in a silver roof.  One of the middle side windows was not fitted with clear plastic.

Duncan

Did you happen to notice if that window was not very clear to look thru with your eye? or any defects in the window?  or did it look like any other plastic window?

just curious since removing it solved the problem.

The window looked a lot like the others on the caboose.  But looking through it you could see the image would be degraded.  You have to be careful taking the caboose apart as there is a fair amount of wiring to be considered.  We found the truck locations were not optomized to allow the four long screws to be removed easily.  However the end result justified the labor. I am a photographer and spend thousands on very clear glass for my lenses.  Model plastic just does not do the trick.

Duncan

Duncan H W Foster posted:

The window looked a lot like the others on the caboose.  But looking through it you could see the image would be degraded.  You have to be careful taking the caboose apart as there is a fair amount of wiring to be considered.  We found the truck locations were not optomized to allow the four long screws to be removed easily.  However the end result justified the labor. I am a photographer and spend thousands on very clear glass for my lenses.  Model plastic just does not do the trick.

Duncan

Just wondering if anyone else has tried this removing the plastic window trick? I’m scared to try taking mine apart, but I’m not really thrilled with the image as-is from the camera.

First let me say that I don't advocate for disassembly of the caboose.  It is made to be easily assembled, not taken apart.  Having said that, I just spent 45 minutes getting the thing apart and removing the window. 

WHAT A DIFFERENCE!!!!!!  Once I get the thing re assembled I will post a picture or two.

On the software note, I am using my PC (Windows 7 with FireFox default browser) and the IPCmultiview application to view the image.  It works great!!!  Still disappointed that my tablet cannot load the app but now that I have the PC working well, I am satisfied.

This is a great product.  Mucho Kudos to Lionel for bringing this to market.

Rolland

In the alternative....slightly press the side of the window with a small flathead screw driver.  There is not much glue holding the window into the frame....it should pop the window into the caboose for safe keeping. 😜.

This method saves you from screwing up any wiring or the hassle of removing the caboose from the frame.

And yes it does make a difference.....  Time to Completion....5 seconds

-Pete 

In my install, the camera was too close to the window to allow the window to drop away.  So I had to take the car apart.  Here is the picture I just took with the window removed.  This is at max resolution.  Before window removal the image of the writing on the transformers was just a blur.

Rolland

I'm wondering if the window is a widening lens. But of course if it's clouded, then what good is it? It could easily get clouded if the glue was sloppy.

Or maybe adjusts the focus from infinity to something a bit closer for better caboose roof definition.

I took a short video today of a short train with the caboose cam.  One lap around the display table in my house.

Rolland

RLaHaie posted:

I took a short video today of a short train with the caboose cam.  One lap around the display table in my house.

Rolland

Looks good. Is that with the window installed or knocked out?

Both the picture above that I posted and the video are with the window removed.  I am experimenting with thin clear plastic in front of the camera now to protect the lens from dust.  It is very dusty where I live and I don't want to have to break out my camera lens cleaning equipment for this caboose cam.

Rolland

Here is a picture of a caboose camera without the window and one with. The one without is definitely sharper but not wide vision and centered anymore. Look at how they image the top of the caboose. Not what I like but maybe I'll run it so the camera images toward the layout and it will be adequate...unless someone has an idea of how to regain central vision again. ]

Also I have to say that these cars are the most built into a corner of any toy train item I have ever experienced. I can't imagine how they got the screw under the one truck into the thing with the truck attached. At the least, you would have to remove the other three screws and then remove the last one under the truck while removing the frame of the car so the screw can stay under the truck as it comes out. And go back the same way. The trucks do not attach from the outside, there is a retaining clip on the inside to secure the truck. I managed to destroy the truck on the SF cam caboose (by pulling the mounting collar out of the truck...which does not seem to be swaged back in without a new unswaged collar) just to see how the heck the thing is put together. It would be nice to just remove the cupola, but the retaining arms are prevented of being pushed aside by the LED lighting strip.

I ended up removing the camera assembly from the SF car which I actually had planned to do, and decide what car/engine I can put it into the front of so I can see everything going down the track. The camera assembly consists of a 5 volt regulator card, a switch, pushbutton, camera on a long flat cable and the camera microchip and antenna bundle. It would take some room...the most convenient would be a box car or some such with pickups on the trucks.  Be nice to get it onto an engine, but not very likely unless ugliness is acceptable.

cjack posted:

Here is a picture of a caboose camera without the window and one with. The one without is definitely sharper but not wide vision and centered anymore. Look at how they image the top of the caboose. Not what I like but maybe I'll run it so the camera images toward the layout and it will be adequate...unless someone has an idea of how to regain central vision again. ]

Well it looks like my camera has shifted causing the off center view. I got to thinking that after examining the windows and they appeared to look identical and non lens like. My camera is very loose compared to the one is in the SR car that was difficult to remove. So if the camera doesn't shift, maybe removing the window is the way to go.

Wow. Took the car apart...one thing is that you don't have to take the screws all the way out...just a quarter inch or so is sufficient to remove the frame and interior from the shell. The trouble from there is that the lead plugged into the top lighting LED strip is too short to remove the shell. So I pushed the side window out of the cupola on the side where the LED plug was and unplugged it with needle nose pliers. Then you can remove the shell to the point where the camera is still attached to the cupola but on a pretty long wire strip...and then remove the LED strip and then carefully the cupola from the shell. Glue the side window back in the cupola and the LED strip back and then you can put the shell back on the frame but wait til the end to tighten the screws and also repaint the side of the truck where the screwdriver knockered it getting the screw loose from under the truck . From there you can remove the camera window and make sure the camera is still square in the holder and that the holder is still glued to the cupola (which mine was not). Also then cut away a half inch of the the vertical strip on the back side of the retaining strips on the so the cupola can be snapped on or off when from the outside without having to remove the LED strip (and disassemble the entire car). Whew. Here are the results. Before and after, window off in both pictures but camera tipped on the "before" picture.

By the way Lionel, how's this going as to getting spare parts? I notice the trucks are not available, will they some day? Any tips on how to professionally get this thing apart? 

If you look at the top post on page 2 of this thread - you'll see that "bub" talks about his experience with the software and that there is (according to him) a pan adjustment.  If so, that should take care of any alignment issue wrt right or left 'aim' (??)

I think he is just referring to panning the picture on the device screen without changing the view. At any rate, that's what happens when I follow the directions given above.

My camera and camera holder was actually loose and just about flopping around. Now it's glued back in and good, but I don't think you could pan the actual view without panning the camera.

Removing the Window??? Some of you have stated that on some 

of the it cannot be gently pushed, hence disassembly necessary.

Does it vary by Road? Please tell me the Santa Fe is one one of

the easy ones. UnclepeteRR

I do not think the road name makes a difference as to the ease of removing the window.  We have two NS, one CSX and a Chessie.  The CSX popped out without loosening the camera in its holder.  The Chessie is fine without removing the window.  Both NSs loosened the camera in their holder and required either popping the side window out or removing the cupola.  

We managed to remove the cupola on one of them without disassembling the entire car.  The tabs that hold it on are in the front and rear of the cupola at the centerline of the roof.  By wiggling it and pulling up on the cupola we could see it begin to lift up.  We then took a flat head screw driver and pushed in on the cupola carefully at the centerline of the roof while continuing to lift up until it finally popped off.  After it was disassembled, we snipped off the tabs as suggested by cjack, so that it can be lifted off easily if we need to later.

UnclePeteRR posted:

Removing the Window??? Some of you have stated that on some 

of the it cannot be gently pushed, hence disassembly necessary.

Does it vary by Road? Please tell me the Santa Fe is one one of

the easy ones. UnclepeteRR

My SF was really glued in. I put a screwdriver blade against it and had to tap it with a light hammer. The window broke in half, but the camera stayed in place. I Took the car apart anyway and that's the one I scavenged the camera out of. With what I know now, I could put it all back together...or put the camera in something else...and just have an SF plain caboose.

cjack posted:

UnclePeteRR posted:

Removing the Window??? Some of you have stated that on some 

of the it cannot be gently pushed, hence disassembly necessary.

Does it vary by Road? Please tell me the Santa Fe is one one of

the easy ones. UnclepeteRR

My SF was really glued in. I put a screwdriver blade against it and had to tap it with a light hammer. The window broke in half, but the camera stayed in place. I Took the car apart anyway and that's the one I scavenged the camera out of. With what I know now, I could put it all back together...or put the camera in something else...and just have an SF plain caboose.

My CSX was very lightly glued in all places. I figure the builder ran short of glue or something.

I've got a PRR wide vision camera caboose on back order but after reading all of the previous posts, I'm starting to think that I should just cancel the order now.  I just can't wrap my head around the fact that some of the cabooses work just fine while others need "fixing".  I don't want to be a whiner, but why does it seem that these QC problems cannot be resolved.  I can't speak for anyone here, (or anywhere else for that matter) but why is it that brand-new stuff has to be "fixed" before we get to play with it?  At this point I have decided that if the caboose arrives and I have to "fix" it before it will work the way it was designed; it’s going back just as fast as I can re-package it and take it to the Post Office.  Nuff Said!

Chief Bob (Retired)

Ok,I'm curious to how many of you tried the App to focus the camera(per bubs post) before removing the window? I don't know but wouldn't placement of the camera to the window change the focus distance wise?

Doug

trnluvr posted:

Ok,I'm curious to how many of you tried the App to focus the camera(per bubs post) before removing the window? I don't know but wouldn't placement of the camera to the window change the focus distance wise?

Doug

I’m thinking that App has features that the Cam caboose doesn’t have. You can adjust the resolution and shift the picture side to side or flip it upside down. I don’t see any way to change the focus, unless I don’t do it correctly. The camera is fixed in place by glue and the plastic holder. The window is a plastic toy caboose window and degrades the sharpness. I thought it might be a lens but it’s not.

PUFFRBELLY posted:

I've got a PRR wide vision camera caboose on back order but after reading all of the previous posts, I'm starting to think that I should just cancel the order now.  I just can't wrap my head around the fact that some of the cabooses work just fine while others need "fixing".  I don't want to be a whiner, but why does it seem that these QC problems cannot be resolved.  I can't speak for anyone here, (or anywhere else for that matter) but why is it that brand-new stuff has to be "fixed" before we get to play with it?  At this point I have decided that if the caboose arrives and I have to "fix" it before it will work the way it was designed; it’s going back just as fast as I can re-package it and take it to the Post Office.  Nuff Said!

Chief Bob (Retired)

I think most of the Cam cabooses are ok just fine, I got three that are, but you can increase sharpness by removing the plastic window.

I really like this caboose cam and in fact have ordered another for my layout.  I did try the adjustments described at the top of page two but it did not help with the blurry image.  Even if I have to fiddle with the new one it will still be worth it.  My grand kids love it and it was a real hit when I brought it to my local club.  I would like to buy some more this summer to repaint for other roads not offered if my budget will support it.  Repainting is very feasible now that I know how to get the caboose apart.

Rolland

Just got my second caboose cam today from Trainworld, this one is Burlington Northern green and white.  This camera view from this one is very clear with the window in place which is great news for me.  I wanted to try the PC application for viewing multiple cabeese at once and was very pleased with the results.  At HD both cameras worked although one of them would drop out in my tunnel.  At Normal resolution both cameras worked fine with no drop out.

I can't wait to take these to the local club and run both of them at the same time on different trains.

Thanks Lionel for this magnificent product.  You really have reinvigorated my interest which had been lagging for some time.

Rolland

cjack posted:

cjack posted:

UnclePeteRR posted:

Removing the Window??? Some of you have stated that on some 

of the it cannot be gently pushed, hence disassembly necessary.

Does it vary by Road? Please tell me the Santa Fe is one one of

the easy ones. UnclepeteRR

My SF was really glued in. I put a screwdriver blade against it and had to tap it with a light hammer. The window broke in half, but the camera stayed in place. I Took the car apart anyway and that's the one I scavenged the camera out of. With what I know now, I could put it all back together...or put the camera in something else...and just have an SF plain caboose.

My CSX was very lightly glued in all places. I figure the builder ran short of glue or something.

Lol, the best QC problem... my friends scale legacy Santa Fe. The porthole lense was stuck to the bottom portion of the the upper lid. Outside the engine wrapping. To bad they didn’t include a bottle of glue.

I totally took this one apart, removed the camera to mount it in something else. But I changed my mind and restored the car. It's quite sharp without the window.

I wanted to try the PC application for viewing multiple cabeese at once and was very pleased with the results.

Here is my question? I have the Chessie and connect to my Android tablet which is wired to a large monitor that I bring to the shows we do. Works great, picture is fine as my monitor has different screen settings to improve the picture. A friend had his Santa Fe caboose there but could not connect to my Android tablet while mine was. We wanted to use the split 4 screen option and run 2 cabooses on 2 different layout loops.

What do I need to do as his kept showing logging in on my android tablet?

P.S. To Lionel. This was my first new catalog purchase in many years as you have a product here that is reasonable in price and an excellent product. I buy everything on the secondary market.

Caboose Camera Video on the Paradise and Pacific

* This video shows the Lionel Caboose with Camera -- running on one of the 180 ft-long mainlines of the Paradise and Pacific's open-to-the-public layout in Scottsdale, Arizona.

* The video clips were provided, courtesy of Paradise & Pacific member and caboose owner Rolland LaHaie (posting earlier on this thread as 'RLaHaie').

* Note that that "caboose video" is not perfect; the video exhibits a very brief "freeze" about every 3 seconds.

* When we viewed it on the screen of Rolland's laptop (without recording it), the video is "smooth".   But when we recorded the camera to a video file, we got the "freezing" in the file.

B. ~~~~~~~~~~ CABOOSE OWNER'S COMMENTS ~~~~~~~~~~~|

* Rolland says that you pretty much need to operate this caboose in "DIGITAL" mode (DCS , Legacy, or DCC) to have enough voltage on the track for the caboose to operate. Said another way, if you try to operate the caboose in conventional mode, it's hard to keep the voltage high enough for the caboose to operate, and you would have to keep the train moving at all times.
~~~~~~~
* Rolland says that track and caboose rollers much be very CLEAN, so that the caboose never loses contact with the track. He says if the caboose does lose contact for just even 1 second, then the Wi-Fi connection to the camera is lost.

* Rolland says that he removed the PLASTIC WINDOW in front of the camera, to get a clearer picture.
* Rolland says he was able to download a newer version of the caboose camera software from a 3rd party site.
* Rolland says you can use the caboose's own Wi-Fi network, or use an existing Wi-Fi network.

• To show multiple windows on your computer screen from multiple cabooses, you have to use an existing Wi-Fi network.
• Said another way, if you use the caboose's own Wi-Fi, then you can view ONLY that one caboose.

C. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ LINKS ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|

* Lionel Caboose w/Camera : http://www.lionel.com/search?q...oose%20with%20camera
* This video "Lionel AT&SF CupolaCam Wide Vision Caboose" by "WichitaToyTrainClub" gives a technical overview of this caboose:  https://youtu.be/ebf0c43VaG4 .
* Paradise and Pacific Railroad, where this video was recorded:  http://PandPrr.com  (We are open 363 days a year to the public).

I'm having the same "fuzzy camera" issue on my newly purchase Lionel Wide Vision Caboose Union Pacific 13605, Lionel #685076.  I called my train store where I purchased it, and they said that what folks are doing is removing the plastic window in front of the camera and that is fixing the fuzzy view from the camera.  I'm hesitant to try this, but it is true that all the other 3 windows on the top of the caboose are very clear plastic, expect for the window in front of the camera.

Take the window out. You may have to remove the couplers to get the trucks to swing far enough to get the screws out to remove the shell. Then you have to poke a slim screwdriver in to unplug the light strip. After moving the shell away from the rest of the body, you can remove the light strip and squeeze the tabs in to remove the cupola. Then cut the insides of the tabs so you can remove or replace it from the top since it goes in last after you plug in the light strip and put everything back together after removing the window. It'll be more obvious than this post .

I have been kicking around buying one of these cabooses.

If you are worried about dust, you might use a skylight filter similar to what is used on film SLR cameras, only on a smaller scale. Some older video cameras that used a cassette the size of a cigarette pack had a lens roughly 20mm in diameter. That might be too large, I might have a few lying around. Might have to look at a caboose at the dealer if it’s still available. 
Now a 90mm skylight filter from a large format lens.......that is a different story. 

Dust is absolutely no problem. The lens is right up front in the open window and can easily be removed just as you remove dust or fingerprints from your iPhone camera. 

I plan to buy one sometime this year.  I will be removing the plastic lens as well as I doubt Lionel intends to "fix" this design flaw anytime soon.  

Thank you, Chuck for the detailed instructions on how to remove the Caboose window.  I'm not sure what I am going to do yet, I'm frustrated to spend $124.00 on the Caboose and then have to deconstruct it to make it work.  The caboose construction and modeling is excellent on the model.  It is very nice to look at.  Just frustrating that something this expensive has to be "fixed" by the consumer to make it work.  

I have one and love it.  For the amount of times I use it I don’t see the justification of removing the shell.  The caboose itself is really very nice.  BTW.  I have the Pennys one. 

I have 5 of the new cam- cabooses, and some are crystal clear, some are somewhat blurred, I can live with them and will keep them original. My CSX excursion car is crystal clear, and fun to run. I hope Lionel reviews this thread and corrects the next batch.  It’s a fun car to run and hope one day they’ll do a engineers view in color. Happy Railroading 

All good information, I’ll have to check one out up close. I have a lens brush that looks like a pen for my large format camera lenses, sounds as if it would be useful for the caboose camera if needed.

I need lnstructions for my NS camera caboose!

@Grocer posted:

I need lnstructions for my NS camera caboose!

Here is a video with answers...I don’t see the manual on Lionel’s website. No surprise, their search does not work well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkG4pzaZPuQ

@Grocer posted:

I need lnstructions for my NS camera caboose!

Seems it's missing from the Service website. I'll have it added.

In the meantime, I attached the PDF here.

@Dave Olson posted:

Seems it's missing from the Service website. I'll have it added.

In the meantime, I attached the PDF here.

Thank you. Does that apply to the theater car also?

GREAT!  I had a hard drive crash and now the Lionel WIFI Camera is no longer on the play store!  What do I do now?????????

Rolland

@RLaHaie

Rolland, Are you able to copy from another Iphone?  I have it on my phone if you can.

Ron;

Thanks for the reply.  Unfortunately I use Android devices exclusively.  The good news is I found an APK file on another site after searching all afternoon.

Thank you Lionel for your great attention to details, selling webcam devices but not supporting the largest mobile market (android).  Also, for not supporting past customers with any kind of information to keep their purchases working.

Rolland

@RLaHaie posted:

GREAT!  I had a hard drive crash and now the Lionel WIFI Camera is no longer on the play store!  What do I do now?????????

Rolland

If you were storing the APK installer and lost it, I can upload it for your Android phone. You may need to disable some security on your phone to allow the app to be installed.

There other apps that are also compatible with the Lionel camera. It appears that the app developer (FTY) for the Lionel Camera app has been removed from the play store. The bigger question is why and when will Lionel find a replacement?

I also looked for the support info for the vista dome cars.  There is none!   No app, no manuals, nothing!  They use the same app so I guess Lionel has decided that this product line is not worth carrying forward.  I found the APK file here:

https://apkpure.com/lionel-wif...g.Lionel_WiFi_Camera

It was a struggle to get my tablets permissions in line with the apps needs, but I got it to work.  In the past I used another app on my PC which worked adequately but not as well as with my new replacement tablet.

Rolland

@RLaHaie posted:

They use the same app so I guess Lionel has decided that this product line is not worth carrying forward.

That's quite the leap.

I'll look into why the APP was removed. Sometimes they have to be updated with new permissions to remain on the APP/Play stores.

@Dave Olson posted:

That's quite the leap.

I'll look into why the APP was removed. Sometimes they have to be updated with new permissions to remain on the APP/Play stores.

I hope you can get it back on the play store.  Went to install the app on another device for my daughter to watch on during a recent layout display we had running, and could not find the app.  We use only android proucts and all google could find was an apk for iphone🤮

Dave;

While you are looking into the WiFI app, could you also look into why the manuals are not on the LIonel website?  I searched for manuals on the web and found one dated 7/20,  the number on the manual I found is 20027670250 and it is dated 7/20.  Is this the latest or is there a later one?

On the upside, the Lionel app I found at the above location works much better than the one from the install disk that came with my UP caboose.

Thanks;

Rolland

@Dave Olson posted:

I'll look into why the APP was removed. Sometimes they have to be updated with new permissions to remain on the APP/Play stores.

Is there an update on this? Two weeks later and still no camera app on the Google Play store.

I haven't tried this ( my layout is waiting to be set up after our move) but my Ring doorbell has a clear image. What if you mount one on a flatcar and push it around the layout?  It had a built in battery.

@Sam Jumper posted:

Just wondering if anyone else has tried this removing the plastic window trick? I’m scared to try taking mine apart, but I’m not really thrilled with the image as-is from the camera.

@RLaHaie posted:

First let me say that I don't advocate for disassembly of the caboose.  It is made to be easily assembled, not taken apart.  Having said that, I just spent 45 minutes getting the thing apart and removing the window.

WHAT A DIFFERENCE!!!!!!  Once I get the thing re assembled I will post a picture or two.

Here is an excellent video from Sean in 2019 showing exactly how to take these cabooses apart for removal of the window.

https://youtu.be/WkG4pzaZPuQ

@Dave Olson posted:

That's quite the leap.

I'll look into why the APP was removed. Sometimes they have to be updated with new permissions to remain on the APP/Play stores.

Three months later and still no word as to where the Lionel camera app is on Google Play.

Any update on this, or is it time to give up hope.