Lionmaster Big boy 4006

The opening to the right of the funnel.

You can see the fan is barely spinning. Impeller could be rubbing under the board or the motor is bad.

If I recall correctly a 9v battery is not a good test of the fan motor as the board sends 5v to the motor.

Just installed new fan. No joy!

Start by measuring the voltage on the smoke fan, it's not moving at all.  If you're testing the smoke fan, it should spin on no more than 1.5-2.0 volts, and it shouldn't draw more than 45 milliamps maximum at 5VDC.  I'm guessing the 5V fan power supply has crapped out

@Lyle S - What’s the product number of your Big Boy?

Got it fixed guys. The tab that contacts the cam on the front truck which powers the fan was not making contact. Bent it down just a smidge and all is good. Except I wished it would smoke more than it does. But oh well it's working. Thanks all!

There was a video done by Lionel about improving smoke units. See the link below. I did this on a couple of my engines, including a LionMaster Challenger and it works great.

RAY

https://www.google.com/search?...8ef8,vid:VYuGB8PRRc8

yes sir ive done that to all my tmcc engines. So now im wondering if i need to change out resistor. And to what size. I have a NS SD90 that will smoke the garage up in 5 min flat and make it almost hard to see the track. lol Would love to get my Big Boy smoking like that

Measure the smoke resistor at the connector.  If you're reading about 8.5 ohms or less, you don't need to change the resistor.  One common issue with these is the screws that hold the resistor get loose, made sure they're good and tight.

John

Will the super chuffer work with this engine. You know it has that cast funnel on it that's angled up to the stacks with the splitter wire across it. I would love to get the super chuffer in this engine and the chuff generator.  

@Lyle S posted:

John

Will the super chuffer work with this engine. You know it has that cast funnel on it that's angled up to the stacks with the splitter wire across it. I would love to get the super chuffer in this engine and the chuff generator.  

I'd need to know the exact model, is this the 6-11149 Legacy model?  This one should have chuffing smoke and 4-chuffs/rev.

Yes sir. 11149 it is.

@Lyle S posted:

Yes sir. 11149 it is.

Not sure what the Chuff-Generator and Super-Chuffer would do for you with this model.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Not sure what the Chuff-Generator and Super-Chuffer would do for you with this model.

His semi smart smoke unit has failed and thus no longer drives the fan motor. Plus, he never had fan running when idle. In theory, driving the fan motor via a super chuffer gives you smarter more distinct chuffs with the dynamic motor braking and gives smoke at idle when no chuffs present compared to stock.

That said, testing the fan motor with 9V might not indicate all forms of a bad motor and the more proper test is both a lower voltage and measuring current draw.

Bottom line- many of us replace the motor with the MTH version when we suspect a problem. Part way down the page. https://www.mthpartsandsales.c...ts/240?type=products

@Vernon Barry posted:

His semi smart smoke unit has failed and thus no longer drives the fan motor. Plus, he never had fan running when idle. In theory, driving the fan motor via a super chuffer gives you smarter more distinct chuffs with the dynamic motor braking and gives smoke at idle when no chuffs present compared to stock.

Well, I didn't see any of that in his posts, hence my comment.  I actually have created a Legacy version of the Super-Chuffer to properly synchronize the smoke with the sound as Legacy chuffs on switch open and TMCC on switch closed.  The smoke at idle was my reasoning for making that version.

Ah, I see I missed where the chuff switch was corrected.

@Lyle S posted:

Got it fixed guys. The tab that contacts the cam on the front truck which powers the fan was not making contact. Bent it down just a smidge and all is good. Except I wished it would smoke more than it does. But oh well it's working. Thanks all!

Point being again, super chuffer running the fan ADDS idle smoke fan running- the stock smoke unit fan control did not have idle function so with no chuff input or idle- the resistor heats but no fan. Again, good reason that a super chuffer is an upgrade. And yes, I should have mentioned the special legacy version of your firmware code and was aware of the inverted signal compared to TMCC.

So.......superchuffer or no?  And what is the ERR upgrade about and will it work on this engine? Im kinda fond of this one engine, its the biggest i have and could afford as i bought it used. So Id like to keep it running and make any improvements i can to it. thanks for the replies.

You can use the special versions I can gen up, it just needs the input chuff signal inverted.  As long at the locomotive is running properly and the smoke regulator is producing heat in the smoke resistor, I would NOT go back to TMCC, you'll lose the better Legacy sound and speed control.  With the Super-Chuffer, you can upgrade to the better smoke control, Rule-17 LED headlight, and automatic cab light control.

You'll likely find this wiring diagram useful in your repairs.

Legacy Lionmaster Big Boy Wiring Diagram

Well I'm about to give up on the engine now. Got smoke working ok but want more. Lol. Went to run engine last night and now the sound is hit or miss around the layout. What gives?? All other TMCC and Command Control engines are working just fine.  Ready to junk it.

It responds to speed adjustments but no sounds or chuffs or whistle or coupling or crew talk. Just speed adjustments.

It sounds like the IR link to the tender is the problem.

Disconnect the tender and just power up the locomotive.  Point your camera (or phone) at the drawbar IR transmitter.  If you see a purple glow, it's probably the tender that has the issue.  If there's no purple glow, something has happened to the serial data feeding the drawbar IR transmitter or a wire/connector is bad.

Yes sir no glow.

Well, that points to the locomotive as the issue.  I'd start by tracing the wires back from the IR LED on the drawbar and see if there's any break/loose connector.  Also, give a tug on each wire that goes under the heatshrink on the drawbar, sometimes they come loose under there.

Found the culprit John. Thank you for pointing me in right direction

Well, that's certainly one problem!

@Lyle S posted:

John

Will the super chuffer work with this engine. You know it has that cast funnel on it that's angled up to the stacks with the splitter wire across it. I would love to get the super chuffer in this engine and the chuff generator.  

That funnel could be your biggest problem. Its similar to the very restrictive Lionmaster Challenger funnel from the early to mid 2000's. I have a 3D printed funnel replacement that allows way more smoke volume. Plus it has two separate stack feed tubes instead of that stupid splitter, to put out much more realistic smoke. If you have any pictures of the smoke unit and OEM funnel I can tell you if my funnel will fit.

Rod

Here is the first test run video in my LM Challenger #402. I just checked and one customer used this exact funnel in LM BB #4006 with great results.

Rod

Here are some pix showing the funnels ready to ship, and installed.

Rod

Nice job on the stack funnels Rod.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Nice job on the stack funnels Rod.

Thanks John; they do seem to work much better than the OEM ones.

Lyle, how is the engine working now? All good? If you want to try one of the improved funnels just shoot me an email and I can fix you up. My email is in my profile.

Rod

lyle, I can highly recommend rods smoke funnels. they are a game changer vrs. the stock lionel ones.

plus adding smoke fluid is easy peasy no more clogged smoke funnel when filling.

I put mine one with some foam and heat tape on the pcb board below the new smoke funnel. mine was getting so hot it melted. this trick solved my issue. now no more melted funnel and I have great smoke output.

JB-Weld is your friend, it handles the heat of a smoke unit without an issue.

For those who may be interested below is the latest known fitment list for the Challenger/Bigboy funnels. Note that the #4011 LM Bigboy of 2010 is not included, as by that time Lionel had revised the funnel to a much more efficient design, that actually makes smoke!!

Rod

Love the funnel. Had a friend print one for me as I only have a filament printer. Now as I've stated before I bought this unit used and the ACRG has now crapped out on me. I can see on the board where it has shorted out. The four wires coming to the board were very worn and loose. I'm guessing they have touched against each other and shorted out. Is there replacements out there available for this one that will still allow the 3 levels of smoke. Can it be bypassed with a different ohm resistor without melting everything.

@Lyle S posted:

Love the funnel. Had a friend print one for me as I only have a filament printer. Now as I've stated before I bought this unit used and the ACRG has now crapped out on me. I can see on the board where it has shorted out. The four wires coming to the board were very worn and loose. I'm guessing they have touched against each other and shorted out. Is there replacements out there available for this one that will still allow the 3 levels of smoke. Can it be bypassed with a different ohm resistor without melting everything.

You can check but I don't think ACRG boards are available anymore. What you can do is bypass it and change the 6 or 8 ohm element out to an 18 or 20 ohm. You won't have variable smoke levels anymore, but it will make great smoke!

Rod

I should have mentioned both the above Challenger/Bigboy and the LM Cabforward #4276 3D funnel files are available for download on the OGR 3D site; for those who have access to a 3D printer. Note also that these files are thinwall designs, and MAY NOT print successfully on an FDM printer. They are intended for resin printing.

Rod

Thanks Rod. Before your reply I tried a 27ohm I had and let's just say that's a little too hot!! I'll order some 18's and try those. I'll have to have my buddy print me another stack. It melted down pretty quick with the 27 ohm. Lesson learned! 🤣🤣

27 ohm, are you sure?? They don’t normally make diddely smoke connected to the smoke unit output. Note that current is inverse to the resistance, so higher resistance equals less current equals less wattage equals less smoke. 18 to 20 ohm should give you nice robust smoke. Something doesn’t add up. What did you hook it up to??

Rod

@Lyle S posted:

Thanks Rod. Before your reply I tried a 27ohm I had and let's just say that's a little too hot!! I'll order some 18's and try those. I'll have to have my buddy print me another stack. It melted down pretty quick with the 27 ohm. Lesson learned! 🤣🤣

An 18 ohm resistor will be a lot hotter than a 27 ohm resistor given the same input voltage!