Lobaugh early , middle , and late ..and really late .

Thanks , Carey!  

What a history lesson!   $100 was a lot of money (Berk) but at least it got you a lot.

John

Yay! Another terrific thread about vintage O scale. 😊 I recently picked up a 1941 Lobaugh catalog: much different from the 1939 edition...

Mark in Oregon

Oh, you guys are asking for it.  A lot of info there that I was unaware of.  But most of you know that I have at least one of every locomotive Lobaugh produced except the MoPac Mountain, the Suburban, and the ten-wheeler.

I don't have much Lobaugh, just a few cars.  Here are both sides of the prewar R-40-10 PFE reefers, UP on one side and SP on the other.  And a couple of clean UP sides I picked up a few years back.

Hi Carey,

I have Lobaugh catalogs from the early 1960's.  At the time the company was owned by Jack Campbell and based in Los Angeles.  I know we were still able to get some Lobaugh kits and parts at Model Railroad Equipment Corporation (NY) in the 1970's. I think Lobaugh models went directly from Al Ellis to Jack Campbell around 1960 then mostly to Locomotive Workshop & Trackside Specialties in the 1980's.  It is now owned by Stevenson Preservation Lines.

BTW, the Rollin J. Lobaugh company is still around for metal fabrication and CNC machining and is still located near San Francisco in Belmont, CA.  see"http://www.rjlobaugh.com/"  Rollin passed away in 1965.

JJ

I met Jack. For about 25 years I owned Jack's display Challenger - the last completed Lobaugh kit owned by Lobaugh scale models.

I also met Al Ellis - nice guy, but difficult to interview.  My best interview (published) was with Bob Smith, about the history of the PA models.

But I digress - here is the Pratt/Lobaugh 1937 SP switcher in 17/64.  Hold your breath; you get to see one of each!

1221 is now on display in Deming, New Mexico.  It was the shop switcher in San Jose back when boilers were green and road names were raised nickel silver.

Yeah, ok.  I guess that one was too primitive for this crowd.  Here is the postwar version, parked with the Stevenson Preservation Models display switcher.  I should add that my friend George Wilson (RIP) did a lot of work on the post war version, and his name appears on several Lobaugh kit blueprints.

Bob, I'de be proud to own and run  yours.

Hello Bob ...what issues are your interviews in? ...inquiring minds want to know ...thank you 

How do you marry a Pratt PRR and Lobaugh SP ? 

Cheers Carey 

Bob - who did the painting and weathering on those switchers? The work is superb.

Test - one, two

Well, that worked.  I thought I was banned because of a lack of cookies.

Thanks.  I do all of my own work, including driver machining, painting, and decaling.

Carey - I don't have an index of articles - wish I did.

Pratt sold the SP 0-6-0 to Lobaugh, probably around 1936/7.  More in next post.

I was thinking I was following the catalog order by posting the 0-6-0s first.  Not true - the 1941 catalog starts with the FEF.

The order is then the B&O Pacific, the D&H Challenger, the UP Challenger, the NP Challenger, and then the smaller NH 4-4-0.

Then come the SP and MoPac Mountains, the SP Mike, and the CNW Berk, and finally the lowly 0-6-0.  So as usual, I started hooked up in reverse! 

There was a 1941 supplement with an AC-8 Cab Forward and a GS-3 Daylight.  We think there may be under 20 Cab Forwards out there, and I have seen only two original tenders.  Gerry White told me personally they never quite got the Daylight off the drawing board - the only part we are aware of is a roller bearing (GS-5) trailing truck casting.

A note on my Lobaugh - about half of it arrived here already built up.  Some came really trashed, and others required only a bit of mechanical work and some paint.  Only one kept the paint job it had on arrival.  The Stevenson 0-6-0 was assembled here for Bob to display, but the one behind it is a genuine 1950 version, and received only paint and decals.

The FEF below came to me fully assembled.  I had to remove the cab and lower it, and in general adjust things, but the rest is genuine 1941 Lobaugh - well, I added firebox sheets.  The tender came with a sprung Centipede truck.

Hate to be an old grump.  My photos are copyright.  You may use them anywhere but in this thread, if you give me attribution.  I do not want them repeated here with the "reply with quote" button.  Thanks!

I found a couple more Lobaugh refrigerator cars.  One early prewar style Yellow PFE like I already have, one, I think, post war Orange  PFE but still single herald, and ART and FGE reefer.  I only have the 1941 catalog but remember Bob mentioning some of the postwar versions and and was curious how many of those PFE versions they did?  I think they also did a 50 footer and a rebuilt wood side but steel end car.  On the wood side, was the lettering done by hand or decal? Since I didn't get to see the other side of the cars, I am hoping the PFE cars have the proper UP opposite side and not two SP sides!!

Hi Dennis!  I had figured I killed this thread with my grumpiness.

I do have a pair of Lobaugh ice cars.  For my money, only the cabeese and tank cars are of interest - but I believe the orange used on PFE cars is brighter and richer than anything we have today.

For structure, I prefer All Nation box/ice cars.  Most are steel, but they seem to last a lifetime if you don't leave them out in the rain (or let cats pee on them).

No cats around here although I did have a squirrel manage to get in the basement last year and run a round and climb on the shelves before I could trap and remove him lol.  Named him George and so all squirrels we see are now thus called George or George's cousin lol.

I'm still waiting to fall into a good tank car or two so for now just have a few ice reefers and a box cars. lol  Scale craft is so much easier to find!  I do have a decent amount of All Nation boxcars and Ice cars as well  Have to get a bunch of them together and do a comparison.  Might be entertaining.

I prefer the All Nation because the steel is about 25% thicker.  The Lobaugh box cars are brass, but I think they were using up shim stock.  The sides and underframes are, of course, works of art.

To continue (?) the 1941 catalog, the next item was the B&O Pacific.  I have only seen the picture in the catalog, and one boiler, which I captured.  I am quite sure more of these exist, but as to where they are . . .

The catalog photo shows it to be similar to the postwar pseudo-USRA Pacific in all aspects except boiler shape, so I just married up the two.  Only one prewar model is more elusive - that is the MoPac Mountain.  I have heard that one exists.

It is not finished yet, and of course B&O was a coal road, so the tender is sort of incorrect.  I have lots of tenders.

I just landed a Lobaugh DeepRock tanker! 26$ isn't too bad, hopefully, it's all there!

@Dennis Holler posted:

I just landed a Lobaugh DeepRock tanker! 26$ isn't too bad, hopefully, it's all there!

Considered but have too many other projects; a shelf full of tank car ones that I've already put off for too long, so I passed.

@Dennis Holler posted:

I just landed a Lobaugh DeepRock tanker! 26$ isn't too bad, hopefully, it's all there!

Good score, Dennis...

Mark in Oregon

Yes.  Good deal.  If you find something missing, let me know.

Consider rings with rivets beneath the domes, and consider screwing the domes on instead of solder.

It looks complete.  The trucks alone are worth ten bucks.  Good thing I didn't look at it closely . . .

Thanks guys appreciate it.  I've been patiently waiting for a good deal on one for a long time lol.  I like the idea of the rivet sheet under the domes, will plan to do that.  Will take another look when it shows up.

I guess I will count all that as at least some desire not to see this thread die.  I thought I had killed it with my B&O Pacific.  I will post the next locomotive in the 1940 catalog next post.

@bob2 posted:

I was thinking I was following the catalog order by posting the 0-6-0s first.  Not true - the 1941 catalog starts with the FEF.

The order is then the B&O Pacific, the D&H Challenger, the UP Challenger, the NP Challenger, and then the smaller NH 4-4-0.

Then come the SP and MoPac Mountains, the SP Mike, and the CNW Berk, and finally the lowly 0-6-0.  So as usual, I started hooked up in reverse!

There was a 1941 supplement with an AC-8 Cab Forward and a GS-3 Daylight.  We think there may be under 20 Cab Forwards out there, and I have seen only two original tenders.  Gerry White told me personally they never quite got the Daylight off the drawing board - the only part we are aware of is a roller bearing (GS-5) trailing truck casting.

A note on my Lobaugh - about half of it arrived here already built up.  Some came really trashed, and others required only a bit of mechanical work and some paint.  Only one kept the paint job it had on arrival.  The Stevenson 0-6-0 was assembled here for Bob to display, but the one behind it is a genuine 1950 version, and received only paint and decals.

The FEF below came to me fully assembled.  I had to remove the cab and lower it, and in general adjust things, but the rest is genuine 1941 Lobaugh - well, I added firebox sheets.  The tender came with a sprung Centipede truck.

Bob,

I love the FEF.

Ron H

Just for that - D&H next.  Gotta fry the tortillas first.

Here we go - genuine, except the tender sides, which were inaccurate and too dented:

No, by golly - I saved the original sides and added a strip of brass on the bottom.  UPS damaged this thing in shipping, and paid me to fix it.  All 100% Lobaugh!

Two more Challengers, but only if you want . . .

I'd like to see the Challengers !!

Okay.  I am obviously going in catalog order.  This is the 1940 Lobaugh "Fetters", or baby Challenger.  about half have the gearboxes come out of the top of the frames, and a small percentage had spur gears connecting motor to drive shaft.  One of my pet peeves is those folks who cut the frames up to install USH gearboxes - the NWSL Mod O.6 is a better gearbox, and  slips in with just a few file strokes.

I am prepared to go through the whole catalog, except for the MoPac Mountain, but only if you guys keep this thread alive.  I have been known to kill threads with my photos.

The top Challenger is a stock Lobaugh piece.  I may have lowered that turret; not sure.  I did reduce the size of the tender numbers since this photo was taken.  The model was given to me by a very nice guy in New England, about a quarter-century ago.

The bottom shot is scratch-built, using many Lobaugh parts.  Note the turret - it is lower, and the cab has appropriate rivets and handrail notches.  Also note the steel cylinder blocks.

I think this one has the frame I machined from a rough casting.  Much more fun to buy them already machined, except some recent ones have the rear engine machined too far back, necessitating a patch for strength in the rear pedestal where it joins the tailbeam.  ( The frame castings for prewar and postwar Challenger models are identical.)

Ready to post the NP.

@bob2 posted:

I am prepared to go through the whole catalog, except for the MoPac Mountain, but only if you guys keep this thread alive.  I have been known to kill threads with my photos.

The top Challenger is a stock Lobaugh piece.  I may have lowered that turret; not sure.  I did reduce the size of the tender numbers since this photo was taken.  The model was given to me by a very nice guy in New England, about a quarter-century ago.

The bottom shot is scratch-built, using many Lobaugh parts.  Note the turret - it is lower, and the cab has appropriate rivets and handrail notches.  Also note the steel cylinder blocks.

I think this one has the frame I machined from a rough casting.  Much more fun to buy them already machined, except some recent ones have the rear engine machined too far back, necessitating a patch for strength in the rear pedestal where it joins the tailbeam.  ( The frame castings for prewar and postwar Challenger models are identical.)

Ready to post the NP.

I enjoy your posts and information about older models - correct information is always appreciated...

Bob2; I also enjoy the posts !

I definitely like seeing photos of your work.

@bob2 posted:

I am prepared to go through the whole catalog, except for the MoPac Mountain, but only if you guys keep this thread alive.  I have been known to kill threads with my photos.

Ready to post the NP.

Yes, please! 

Mark in Oregon

NP - this one is not genuine - most of it is from the UP Challenger parts, but the mechanisms are separately driven by two NWSL gearboxes and two 8000-series Pittmans.  The front engine is driven by a driveshaft that goes through the rear worm shaft, much like a modern turbojet engine shaft.  I call it the "twin spool" drive, and would have patented it except that patents are so darn expensive.  And that is exclusive of attorney fees, since I am registered at the Patent Office.

Oh - and the tender is a wood block with PSC trucks. 

Part of the problem is that there just aren't that many Lobaugh NP Challengers out there - my east coast friend Gene has one, but other than that I am unaware of any.  There are more Cab Forwards than NP Challengers, apparently.

Enough of that - here is the photo:

Oops - those are Lobaugh tender trucks.  the PSC are ready for installation except for that giant brake cylinder.

I mentioned the Cab Forward.  If we finish the 1940 catalog, I will do the 1942 supplement, which had a model AC-8 and a real Daylight Northern featured.  Gerry White told me they never finished much of the Daylight kit, but we think there may be twelve complete Cab Forwards out there.  I have one of them, and some parts of another, which I will share.

If we finish this.  Next on the list appears to be the SP Mountain.  For those interested, I have posted most of these before in separate threads.  I would apologize for repetition, but I submit that previous postings are years ago, and we may have a different audience.  For sure, older O Scale has seen a recent renaissance, with eBay prices of relative junk heading for the stratosphere.

Speaking of repetition, make me feel good and stop hitting the "reply with quote" button?

Okay...

Just marvelous Bob; thanks again.

Mark in Oregon

hey Bob--I missed the start of this thread , but would have encouraged you from the start !  Now, Ill have to look in here to see what new pics you post.

I will complain that your pictures should be bigger,  so I can zoom on on details .

One thing that always mystified me  - The Lobaugh cars can be made into very respectable models ,, but the diagrams they included for underbody detail , especially brake rigging , were nothing short of laughable !  don't get me wrong, I love lobaugh, but man, check out the underbody detail drawings !!!!!

Looking forward to your next post ,

JJ Davies

@Carey Williams posted:

Sorry if the following questions make me seem like a novice ( I am ) but this picture caught my eye. The un-flanged wheels seem unusual...yes ?   Also what is the purpose of that cross rod with the shoes on the end. Looks like some type of electrical pick-up but it extends well outside the rails ?

Are you talking about the outside 3rd rail pick-ups?  IF so you can clearly see them in a pre-war Scale-Craft catalog.

@j2morris posted:

Are you talking about the outside 3rd rail pick-ups?  IF so you can clearly see them in a pre-war Scale-Craft catalog.

Yes that's it. I had never seen that before. I found an old post by Carey that contained an illustration of that style pick up:

I also found some online photos of O-scale outer 3rd rail layouts. That takes a bit of dedication.  Very cool, thanks.

Blind drivers (no flanges) were commonplace on the PRR, and far less in favor on other roads after about 1910.  Most models get blind drivers to navigate sharp corners, and since our flanges usually are quite large, they stand out like sore thumbs.

So on my railroad there are no blind drivers.  Early Scale Craft models come in with blind center drivers and they quickly get new iron tires pressed on the old driver centers.  Even my PRR H10 fleet has no blind drivers, except for one ancient Saginaw, which I have yet to address.

Back to the 1941 catalog: Next item of interest is the SP/MoPac Mountain.  I mentioned that I have never seen a Lobaugh MoPac Mountain, and suspect that what few were made were pretty much inaccurate.  Not so the SP Mountain - it appears to be a fairly faithful reproduction, considering it showed up in 1939 or so.  Here, in bits and pieces, are my Mountains:

This one is the way they look while under construction - I think it is further along now, but I am taking my time.  It is a pristine kit I got a decade or so ago.  It needs piping, a motor, etc - but note the tender!  Genuine Lobaugh!  The sides are a one piece wrap, just like the real thing.  There are few castings - the ends and underframe.  The rest is sheet brass.

This one is more or less finished.  Note that the cab is slightly further aft, and is slanted.  This was an SP modification, allowing staybolt access without removing the cab.  Paint is more or less authentic - we have a few color photos of SP locomotives in green right in to the 1950s.  Oh - that is a USH tender.  I should tell you how many 160C tenders there are around here, but then you would know I am certifiable.  Most are Adams castings with my own sides - I press rivets while I watch the news.

Stay tuned for a couple more - I don't have a digital photo of the first one I did, so may rectify that.  And I have one in Daylight colors, with a skyline casing.  Somebody shoot me before I ever attempt another skyline casing!

Photo size - if there is a way to make these larger, let me know.  The pixels are there - the camera is set for maximum resolution.  I think the forum cuts that down a bit.  I do have a Shutterfly account, and could try that?

Cross rod...,is the outside 3rd rail,pick up ...engine dates to 1940 /41 when outside 3rd rail,was still a thing

@bob2 posted:

Blind drivers (no flanges) were commonplace on the PRR, and far less in favor on other roads after about 1910.  Most models get blind drivers to navigate sharp corners, and since our flanges usually are quite large, they stand out like sore thumbs.

So on my railroad there are no blind drivers.  Early Scale Craft models come in with blind center drivers and they quickly get new iron tires pressed on the old driver centers.  Even my PRR H10 fleet has no blind drivers, except for one ancient Saginaw, which I have yet to address.

@Carey Williams posted:

Cross rod...,is the outside 3rd rail,pick up ...engine dates to 1940 /41 when outside 3rd rail,was still a thing

Thanks for the info. Beautiful models thanks for posting.

I found a photo of my very first Lobaugh SP Mountain.  What a rare find, back then.  I am going to attempt to move a high resolution photo in here:

Okay, that worked.  This came to me as a partially completed kit, and I elected to "keep it stock."  Note no rivets on cab, no boiler bands, no washout plugs, no lagging clamps.  The tender in the kit was half Lobaugh and half Adams.  being a neophyte, I could not figure it out, and cut that beautiful wrapper into two pieces to sort of fit.  The Adams is closer to 17/64 scale, so one can see a bit of the back end bell from the side.  I believe this photo shows it with a genuine 100% Lobaugh tender, of which I now have plenty.

More Mountains to come - click on the photo if you need larger . . .

And please - skip that "reply with quote" button.

This thread is what O Gauge Brass is all about! Loving it.

Well, doorstop O Scale brass.  There are a lot of other ways to approach O Scale in brass - say, Key or Car & Locomotive Shops?  But for me, this is where I want to be.

Here's another Lobaugh - Skyline casing, fancy paint, but underneath the 1939 Mountain:

There is a Locomotive Workshop BRASS 4-6-4 Milwaukee Road Hiawatha KIT O-Scale 2-Rail on the bay. Don

I purchased this with two tenders.  Does anyone know which one goes with this loco?  Thank you

@MARKFROMMN posted:

I purchased this with two tenders.  Does anyone know which one goes with this loco?  Thank you

Being it's a model of a D&H Challenger, this one:

Rusty

Thank you, Rusty!

Nice to see this thread resurrected; could be one of my all time favorites. Hopefully "bob2" has something new to share...?

Mark in Oregon

Having just read this complete thread, I realize that the only Lobaugh stuff that I have is a large pile of trucks.

Rusty covered it.  The only thing I have to add is, these particular Challenger versions are quite rare.  The only one harder to find, other than the Cab Forward, is the NP Challenger.  Neither the D&H nor the NP are 100% accurate in overall dimensions.

@bob2 posted:

I found a photo of my very first Lobaugh SP Mountain.  What a rare find, back then.  I am going to attempt to move a high resolution photo in here:

That's a handsome Mountain !

It's for sale if anyone is interested.  All reasonable offers to mark@vectorservices.com

The Northern Pacific looks like another Rollin J. Lobaugh, and is absolutely beautiful but how can you tell w/o opening it up?  This set came with a wooden box and brass screws

And is a pretty nice attempt at a W-5 Mikado.

The way you tell is a bottom shot.  They are generally like the D&H, except postwar uses tew piece pedestal binders, and only the early Challengers had that upside down pedestal for the gearbox.

NP looks scratchbuilt.

Thanks

What is interesting about the early Lobaugh Challengers is that, even though rare, they have all floated around at the $600 mark for the last four decades.  Part of that is probably the competition of better detailed and more accurate imports.  Sunset did the UP and D&H early Challengers, and they are quite accurate.

Hello Lobaugh fans ..1941 Rollin tries to expand market share by selling a low priced ready to run engine ...introducing the New Haven American ... for a mere $91.00

This could explain why you find so many more Lionel 700E's retailing, complete with display track for $75.00.

The American was an easier build with a cast boiler ...for the beginning novice if purchased as a kit . WW2 ended the American's short availability not to reappear during the postwar years .

This example is going to need a bit of love .

Also had fun adding a few shelves hoping to get all the Lobaugh together ..well modern shelving is just not as long as the old stuff,...

Also note Lobaugh used various rulers for the Scale of thier engines ...prewar 060 a big 17/64ths ..postwar 1/4" , UP Northern 17/64ths ...Greenbrair 1/4"

Cheers Carey,

Wow, what an awesome collection!  I wonder if you'd be willing to identify each of those... please? 🙂

Mark in Oregon

Second the motion.  Whose Daylight?  Can we have a shot of that in inverted flight?

Hello all

top to bottom left to right

fun to collect !!!   

Greenbrair  1950's , post war Pacific

UP Challenger Northern 1940-42  , switcher 1937-39   both 17 64ths

post war switcher   1/4" ,UP Challenger  1940-2

Daylight made with Lobaugh drive wheels etc   post war ..Smith out of Long Beach car  early 50"s

Northern prewar made with Lobaugh bits 1940-42 ,   Mike  1937-9

American  1941-2 , postwar Challenger mid 50's

Bob which piece did you wish to see photos of ?

Cheers Carey

Daylight.  You post yours, I will post mine.  Same deal; Lobaugh drivers, scratchbuilt model.

But those are neat - a portrait of each would be nice to have here.

@bob2 posted:

But those are neat - a portrait of each would be nice to have here.

I'll second that! 

Mark in Oregon

Here is mine - seen here many times.  Frame is a 1"x1" brass bar, machined to look like Lobaugh.  Drivers are Lobaugh.  Tender trucks were cast by my Dad in the Tucson city foundry - nickel silver.  I have not found it in me to paint them.  Vince Waterman later used my master for 1/4" scale bronze sideframes.  Boiler is 1/16' thick copper, silver soldered with the 1100 degree stuff.  Striping is by Pilot pen.

This model is a 17/64 scale GS-2.  I should mention that the tender underframe mimics the ones used by Lobaugh for the Berkshire, Pacific, and Cab Forward.  I did not cast it; rather, it is soldered together bar stock.  But still, it looks like a smoothed-up Berkshire frame.

... awesome Bob, simply awesome.

Mark in Oregon

Lobaugh did not offer the pre-WWII O scale C&O Mikado?  Who did, and photos?

Hello all

Bob your Daylight is stunning ..enjoyed seeing it ..in person

Ok please see photos ..this one has Lobaugh drive and drivers ...heavy brass tube for boiler , cast frame , ...guessing late 40's early 50's. A Bob Smith from LA built a very similar one in 1948 ..

At a later date " someone" up dated it with can motor and added sound ..carving a hole in the bottom of the tender for a speaker ..poor misguided soul.

Runs well !

Cheers Carey

Beautiful...👍

Mark in Oregon

Thanks, Carey.  Nice photos.  I will get some inverted shots of mine, maybe today.

I believe Ed Alexander made a C&O Mike kit.  The only Mikado Lobaugh ever made was SP.  Two versions - pre-war, and "lost wax."

Here is the left side and the underframe of mine:

These photos were taken yesterday - note that the nickel silver tender trucks have turned to a brown rust color.  Nickel plate does not seem to do that, so it has to be some copper in the mix.  Also note the 1x1 brass slug frame.    That is Lobaugh-style machining, but obviously a heavier frame than the nice Lobaugh castings.  NWSL Mod 0.5 gears, 9000-series motor.

My initial goal was to mimic the elusive 1941 catalog GS class offering.  I don't think a single one left the factory - not even a sample.

Awesome...

Mark in Oregon

Hi all.  I'm happy to have found this forum.  I have a story to tell that is relevant to this discussion.

I've had a box in my closet for 20+ years that has a locomotive and tender in it that came with a story.  I've only now begun to investigate it.  The story goes something like this ... my grandfather purchased a loco/tender in the 50's from a dealer in Baltimore and was told that this loco was in a layout in the 1939 World's Fair in San Francisco.  The train wound up with me and has literally been out of the box less than 5 times in 50 yrs.  It appears to be a Lobaugh UP 4-6-6-4 Challenger Loco & Tender.

At this point, I'm looking for some validation that this is what I stated.  Once I have that, selling it isn't out of the question.

Thanks for your help.

Dave

Need more photos, but first guess is International, produced after the fair.  Sorry to disappoint.

Thanks for the reply.  What pictures/angles/details would be helpful?

If the cab numbers are pressed into the cab sides, I would think it is a International.

@bob2 posted:

Need more photos, but first guess is International, produced after the fair.  Sorry to disappoint.

Yes; underbody for starters; frame and drivers, gearbox (if any), underside of tender and trucks thereof.

I am enjoying learning about Lobaugh, please keep it coming. I would also like to know moor about International models.

I have several older reefers.  How would I be able to tell if they are Lobaugh or not?  What are the spotting factors?  I have always assumed mine were All Nation, Athearn, or Walthers.  Thanks!

Cab numbers are raised, not pressed.  Same for tender.  31-ish" long.

I added a pic of the box as well.

Found this blurb here ... http://www.tcawestern.org/lobaugh.htm

Lobaugh supplied rolling stock and motive power, including one of its 4-6-6-4 Challengers for the operating 2-rail Santa Fe layout built by Minton Cronkhite and displayed at the 1939 San Francisco World's Fair held on Treasure Island (also known as the Golden Gate International Exposition).

Most of those photos on your link were lifted off the internet without my permission.  I gave permission, but only if they attributed them to me individually.

They have yet to do that - “too busy.”  I am going to suggest that their text is as inaccurate as their photo captions.

Your locomotive is International.  Not as valuable as Lobaugh, although better detailed.

Opinion:  No way to prove that a given model was used in some historical venue.  A sales person is permitted (under what is called “puffing) to claim that a locomotive was used on a World’s Fair layout, or that a used car was only driven on Sunday by a little old lady.  Savvy buyers ignore those claims, but “there is a sucker born every minute.”

I just checked that site; they do give you a "shout out", but not for individual photos...

Mark in Oregon

Or possibly my grandfather heard ... "This locomotive was used in the 1939 World's Fair" but what was actually said was "A locomotive like this was used in the 1939 World's Fair."  Too bad.

Do you have a link that details International?  I can't seem to find any mention of them relative to this locomotive.

Thanks.

Found this too.

The "shout out" was after I complained and took the time to fix each caption under my photos.  No, I am not going to sue them for copyright infringement, and yes, I think they owe me slightly more than their belated acknowledgment.  I took about an hour to provide them with more accurate info and I gave them permission if they attributed the photos (properly).

Look in older Model Railroaders for International ads in the early 1950s.  This particular model is orders of magnitude better than the other IMP locomotives (except the box cab body) but that still isn't saying much.  I  wonder if more than 50 were imported - probably closer to 25.  Nobody will ever know.

Prices of older stuff have jumped lately, and Carey can probably fill you in on that.  For the longest while, Lobaugh locomotives in good running condition ranged from $300-$650.  A running IMP Pacific would be around $75, and these Challengers with raised lettering topped at maybe $300.  But we have seen a stunning runup in the last two years, with at least one Lobaugh articulated topping the $2500 mark, and some sand cast Diesels over $400.  I have way too much "stuff" and am not buying (not selling either) so I am not a particularly knowledgable source.

@BeachBoy posted:

Do you have a link that details International?  I can't seem to find any mention of them relative to this locomotive.

I recall going to International Model Products in lower Manhattan in about 1953 or so. They did not have a showroom but welcomed my grandfather and me in to their business. They had a lot of HO and some O gauge models that were being assembled.

International was importing some of the same HO models as Tenshodo, but the Tenshodo models ran better.

I had an International HO model of the Union Pacific challenger that did not run very well. I still have an International catalog somewhere. They imported a lot of models.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfxU8Ap3uIs

IMP video

Hello yes it looks like an international advertise 1952 original price about $200 not the same quality as a Lobaugh

Cheers Carey

@GG1 4877 posted:

I have several older reefers.  How would I be able to tell if they are Lobaugh or not?  What are the spotting factors?  I have always assumed mine were All Nation, Athearn, or Walthers.  Thanks!

The quickie way to find a Lobaugh car is to flip it over and check the underframe.  These top two cars are stock Lobaugh PFE reefers and you can see both the underframe and the trucks.  Note the underframe ends where the couplers mount.  Unfortunately many times people will clip those beautiful ends off to mount Kadee's.  Bottom car is something like an All Nation or other style wood reefer kit.  The screw mounted bolsters are All Nation style but they are still available buy current mfrs as well I think.  BTW that Lobaugh frame is all brass and soldered together.  Aside from that, the metal sided cars are slightly different from say and Athearn or All Nation car especially if you set them side by side.

These Lobaugh cars were discussed in detail in the OST #90 Mar/Apr 2017 "O Scale Archeology" column; another tell at least specifically that the car is Lobaugh is that some were actually labelled Lobaugh in tiny print in the lower corner of the car side, though both other Lobaugh examples and the successor manufacturer for these cars Faber did not have this label.

They are really good models in my opinion and can be had for cheap if the buyer recognizes their characteristics and the seller doesn't, which is often the case these days.

@Dennis Holler posted:

The quickie way to find a Lobaugh car is to flip it over and check the underframe.  These top two cars are stock Lobaugh PFE reefers and you can see both the underframe and the trucks.  Note the underframe ends where the couplers mount.  Unfortunately many times people will clip those beautiful ends off to mount Kadee's.  Bottom car is something like an All Nation or other style wood reefer kit.  The screw mounted bolsters are All Nation style but they are still available buy current mfrs as well I think.  BTW that Lobaugh frame is all brass and soldered together.  Aside from that, the metal sided cars are slightly different from say and Athearn or All Nation car especially if you set them side by side.

I must have 6 -7 that need restoration  ( Hopefully this winter yet )

Just a small correction.  Faber predated Lobaugh with these cars and supplied parts/kits to Lobaugh prior to WW2.

Wow, I've learned something or figured something out...  Kind of triggered by a post about a Lobaugh Katy auto box car with hand lettering.  That post got me curious and I started looking through my Lobaugh or what I thought were Lobaugh cars...  Is this what Bob calls Menusha

I recently got a couple of flat cars that I thought were Lobaugh, but hey, look at the right end, and you see Faber printed there so these must actually be Faber cars.  Keep in mind as I understand it, Merl Faber was the source for the Lobaugh stamped components... So these have the typical Lobaugh style underframe and construction, they are just stamped FABER.  Really interesting.  I don't see either of these road names in my 1941 or 42 catalogs...

Now, here it gets real interesting.  The first two "Lobaugh" cars I got were a couple of Yellow R40-10 PFE reefers.  A couple of years ago I got a few more cars.  The Faber thing got  me curous and so looking more closely, I see the Yellow cars are marked Faber and the darker Orange-ish car and the ART are marked Lobaugh SF.   Maybe the Faber cars were a different color thant he Lobaugh cars might make sense.

You can see the color difference very clearly here.  Also note the pin holes are in different locations and there are more on the Lobaugh version.  Also note the difference in shield size and frankly the lettering is actually different between the cars.  Note the hand grabs are in different locations because the sides were punched differently.  And finally, it's hard to see but the bottom side skirt is cut differently on both cars.

Here the Lobaugh R40-10

And the Faber

Also found this neat, the Faber car is on top and note the Ice hatches are very different from the Lobaugh on the bottom.  All my Faber cars have these same style hatches.

Same for the ends, Lobaugh on left and Faber on right.  Pretty different stampings.

Here is my Lobaugh ART car, also with Lobaugh SF in the corner. One other thing I noticed is the two little black triangles  outside of the lower hinge set, those are not found on the Faber version.

Last thing is my Faber cars came with these Lobaugh like trucks but the sideframes were cast in zinc alloy or white metal unlike the standard bronze Lobaugh sideframes.  I am speculating the Faber cars used a cheaper casting for the sideframe than the lobaugh bronze ones... Probably same dies and same source...

This was an interesting learning experience spurred thanks to Jim's posting on another forum.