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Old layoutJPGlayout first stepsnew layout 1layout pic

Hello friends,

Its been a very long time since I have posted anything on the forum, but as always, I read it on a regular basis. Life's been busy with work, having two girls in college and life in general. But I finally started my new layout last week. Part of what motivated me to start in early July was that my good friend Marty Fitzhenry started his legendary layout on July 2, in 1982, if I remember correctly.  

The top photo was my old layout that was 5' x 8', which consisted of two Lifetime tables with two pieces of plywood and homesite screwed to it and hobby grass on top. It served me well for about 14-15 years. It had two loops on it, an outer loop of Lionel tubular track with 042 curves and an inner loop of 036 Fastrack. The power was supplied by an MTH Z-4000 (overkill for such a small layout), which also had Lionel Legacy and MTH DCS. Since I purchased a new Lionel Vision Line Gray Niagra, and bought a Lionel Southern Pacific Daylight #4449 in Bicentennial colors from Marty Fitz, both last year, and both locos require 054 curves, I knew that now was the time to build a larger layout with wider curves. All my other locos will run on 042 or narrower curves.

The new layout substructure is Mianne Benchwork, and is 7 1/2 feet wide and 12 feet long, or more than twice the size of my old layout. All 16 legs have wheels on them so the layout can be moved as needed, so the track on the far side can be cleaned, and so that I can get to the trains on the shelves behind the layout from time to time. The second photo from the top shows the first two modules of the new layout after they were put together last weekend. The two bottom photos show the new layout substructure in its completed state (finished earlier today) from two different angles. I will be installing plywood above the lower supports in the back two corners so I can store trains there, and intend to use the plywood from my old layout  as seen in the back of photo 3 above.  I am hoping to begin doing the plywood with homasote on top of the layout in a couple of weeks.

Although not set in stone, my thoughts at the present time are to have 3 loops of some configuration with a siding, the outside loop being 072, the middle loop 054 and the inside loop 042. That way I can run any O gauge locomotive ever made on the outside loop, and can run 3 trains at once. I am going use Ross Custom switches and track. I am also thinking about buying a new MTH Rev L TIU to replace the older Rev G that  I have to keep the signal strong, although I have always had 10s in signal strength in the past. Of course, I will also reinstall Legacy so I can run my locos with swinging bells and/or whistle-steam. 

Any thoughts that you may have would be welcome. Thanks for reading.

Erol

         

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Your layout plan sounds remarkably similar to my 12'-by-8' layout completed on Mianne benchwork in 2004 and still in operation. Three independent loops of Atlas O track: O-72, O-54 and O-36 with passing sidings on outer and middle loops. So, I can run three trains at a time. My benchwork has the middle-front section lowered by ten inches from the main table. The gap is spanned by two side-by-side truss bridges.

MELGAR

Looks good so far!

My only question regarding the method described is wondering if the weight may be too much to wheel the whole thing as one assembly once it's got plywood, homasote, track,etc. on top(any accessories or scenery?).  It's a little hard to tell from the pic, but I assume the carpet shown is not something with a high pile, so probably very little rolling resistance?

Maybe I misunderstood the description?

Keep us posted.  Looks like it will be a good upgrade!

-Dave

Last edited by Dave45681

Friends,

Thanks to all for their inspiring and motivating words, and to all that responded with "likes." I hope to put the 1/2 inch plywood and homsote on top of the substructure next weekend. I will keep everyone updated as much as possible.

Dave,

The weight issue of the plywood etc. previously did cross my mind. That is why I am going with 1/2 inch plywood instead of 3/4 inch. While it may not solve the weight problem, it will reduce it.  I am now thinking it will take two people to move it for the few times that I will need to do that.

Chris,

I have not seen you in a long time. Hope you are doing well.

GRJ,

I appreciate you recommending that I go with curves wider than 072, but I like loops with a 10" straight in the middle of the curves on each end of the loop to break up the curve. The only locomotive that I can conceive of buying that requires a minimum of 072 would be a Pennsy green 5 stripe GG1.  

Erol

Erol, consider birch multi-ply for the wood, it's a joy to work with, and it will remain much flatter than standard plywood.  Having built with plain plywood and this one with multi-ply, I had no idea what I was missing!  I would strongly recommend anyone building to consider multi-ply, the cost differential isn't that significant from plain plywood, but the quality difference is night and day!

I like the way you kept under the layout open so you can access it, it will make a great place to store stuff!  I tried to keep as much as I could accessible to do the same thing.

Another recommendation is to have a long level and make sure it's dead level before you start.  I didn't do the leveling carefully enough before the wood went on, and as a result we spent a couple of days making leveling blocks and leveling the layout.  I only had a 4 foot level when I set up the benchwork, when we worked with an 8 foot level, it was amazing how far off the leveling was! 

Since you're on carpet, I also recommend you consider some pads to spread the load on the carpet.  You may have seen Tom's leveling blocks in my build thread, but they really made a difference, and the layout is dead level now for the entire 12 x 23 area.  The bottom has plastic from a desk chair carpet protector attached, these can be made in various thicknesses if the floor varies in height a lot.  Once these were in place, there was no moving the legs on the carpet, they're there!  Also, you can still access the leveling leg to adjust it if necessary.

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Last edited by gunrunnerjohn

Yes, the leveling feet would kinda' preclude movement, that was the idea! OTOH, I can't imagine the layout staying level if you're rolling it around.

Birch multi-ply doesn't weight significantly any more than plain plywood of the same dimension and thickness.  The difference is for a few bucks a sheet, you have a MUCH better platform for your layout.

Last edited by gunrunnerjohn

Erol ... COOL!!!  Layout underway!!

I second - strongly - what GRJ said about ply:

"Erol, consider birch multi-ply for the wood, it's a joy to work with, and it will remain much flatter than standard plywood.  Having built with plain plywood and this one with multi-ply, I had no idea what I was missing!  I would strongly recommend anyone building to consider multi-ply, the cost differential isn't that significant from plain plywood, but the quality difference is night and day!"

I started my new layout (on Mianne benchwork - of course!    a year or so ago using standard 3/4" ply.  I shifted quickly to the birch multi-ply and it truly is exceptionally better.

Good luck with the new layout.  See you York in October - as usual!  

Best.

One think I wish I would have done before the top when on, but I'll be doing it the hard way.  I'm taking a sander under the layout and slightly rounding all the edges on the Mianne I-Beams that my head can hit!  Those things are razor sharp, and I've taken several divots out of my head already!  It would have been VERY easy to do before I put the benchwork together, it'll take a lot more work now, but it'll be worth it in the long run.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

One think I wish I would have done before the top when on, but I'll be doing it the hard way.  I'm taking a sander under the layout and slightly rounding all the edges on the Mianne I-Beams that my head can hit!  Those things are razor sharp, and I've taken several divots out of my head already!  It would have been VERY easy to do before I put the benchwork together, it'll take a lot more work now, but it'll be worth it in the long run.

Guessing with the beautiful bench work you don't want to make it look crappy with foam pipe insulation on the cross beams to protect the noggin?   I could see not wanting that on the exterior beams that might show, but I'd certainly consider ones that have no "view" from the outside perimeter of the layout.

I forget who posted that idea in a thread here (pretty sure I saw the idea here) recently, but it looked easy and not too expensive at a couple bucks per 6 foot length.

-Dave

gunrunnerjohn posted:

One think I wish I would have done before the top when on, but I'll be doing it the hard way.  I'm taking a sander under the layout and slightly rounding all the edges on the Mianne I-Beams that my head can hit!  Those things are razor sharp, and I've taken several divots out of my head already!  It would have been VERY easy to do before I put the benchwork together, it'll take a lot more work now, but it'll be worth it in the long run.

Do as I did. Go buy the pipe insulation with a slit in it and put it over the edge. I hit mine several times. Wife once! Insulation purchased and installed. Now no more blood and the banging doesn't hurt. LOL

 

gunrunnerjohn posted:

... I'm taking a sander under the layout and slightly rounding all the edges on the Mianne I-Beams that my head can hit!  Those things are razor sharp, and I've taken several divots out of my head already!

In addition to divots, they're also very good at removing chunks of hair, which I can't afford to lose!  

The only I-beams I consistently miss are on the perimeter, where I go in and come out from under the layout. All the rest seem to be quite good at removing hair and creating divots when their time comes. 

John, RT et al. -- at the risk of asking a self-answering question, while I do a lot of woodworking, I'm not sure what you mean by birch multi-ply.  What I've seen and used is called 'baltic birch' or 'white birch' plywood (baltic is better than white and more expensive), which is indeed made up of multiple, thin layers -- typically 9 ply  for 15/32" plywood - as opposed to 3 to 5 thicker plys for more 'traditional' (usually pine) A-C or B-C plywood.  Maybe its just a naming convention that's different for us folks out here on the left coast?

- Rich

 

It's just Baltic birch to you, the 1/2" stuff I'm using has 11 layers, that makes for a very good and flat surface.  I bought mine at a plywood specialty yard for $25/ea for 5x5 sheets.  It's finished on both sides, one being the "perfect" side and the other having allowable "football" patches that cover what used to be knots I suspect.

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John -- thanks.  that was my hunch, but I just wanted to make sure I hadn't missed some new, wonder material...!  Baltic birch is really good to work with - I've used it for casework for various projects.  The pre-finished stuff is also very handy for making drawers - some edge banding or a round-over bit and some poly finish on the sanded edge and you are good to go.

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