Looking for thoughts/info about Lion Chief Plus diesels

I have a GP20 LC+.  The trucks, pilots, and fuel tanks are metal on my loco.  I've had mine for over a year.  Pretty bullet proof, even with a 3 year old son and 5 year old daughter.  The remote has given me zero issues.

I run only Lionchief Plus. 1 steam engine, 1 GP7, 1 NW2, 1 RS3. A switch underneath selects either conventional operation or using constant 18 volts to the track and operating with the remote. Using the remote lets you run more than one on the same track because the remote controls the loco, not varying the track voltage. Plus the remote operates the electro couplers and let's you adjust the sound volume. They are awesome for slow running. Great pullers. I think there was a problem initially with the RS3's, but not anymore. I've had a little trouble with the diesel smoke units, but maybe it's just me. I haven't heard of any common complaint  

I love Lionchief Plus!! Very simple to use. Not as complex as Legacy but I get the basic things I want. My opinion!

I have worked on many of these and they are fun to run.  They are very smooth runners and are well built.   I get to see many of these.  The sounds are also good.   These are going to have Bluetooth from this time forward.  I recently got to run a FlyerChief Northern with Bluetooth and it impressed me big time.  I have seen a few engines in my time and this was a new experience.  The app is free and it does many things.  I feel that all you need to do is run one for a test and you will be hooked.

I do repairs for a Lionel Dealer and my only complaint is when someone would send a locomotive in without the remote.  When I test, I test in conventional and remote mode.  Lionel recently released a universal remote that will control three locomotives.  I am a happy camper with this remote.  This is a well done product also.  

Thanks for the comments. Anyone have input about my questions about the pilots and tanks of GP7's, metal vs. plastic gears, and the ability of the switch to isolate command electronics failures?

The catalog says the pilots, trucks, tanks are cast.  Isolating the command electronics would be a good question for Lionel.  My question is -- Are all LC+ engines going to be Bluetooth?  If you look at the catalog and say the Mikado steam engines.   Half the engines have the Bluetooth logo next to them.  The other half does not.

Jim

I do not own one, yet! But I will be a proud owner about ten minutes after Lionel puts out a Polar Express engine with "Lion Chief PLUS" in it.

To add to what Marty stated above the folks at the club who have done demonstrations with them and run them at home all speak very highly of the product.

I think the Lion Chief Plus controlled engines are a great way for a Post war person to break into Command Control. This is as simple to run as it comes.  

With Lionel bringing out the Lion Chief Plus Berkshire maybe they will do one in Polar Express.  Could use one to pull all  the Polar Express Cars under the tree.

The NW2 has metal gears.

I have a silly question....I run TMCC and Legacy...

Can you operate the Lionchief Plus loco's with the Cab1, Cab1L or Legacy remote in conventional mode?

I run some of my MPC with the Cab1.

Grampstrains posted:

carsntrains posted:

The catalog says the pilots, trucks, tanks are cast.  Isolating the command electronics would be a good question for Lionel.  My question is -- Are all LC+ engines going to be Bluetooth?  If you look at the catalog and say the Mikado steam engines.   Half the engines have the Bluetooth logo next to them.  The other half does not.

Jim

 

Everything from 2017 on is Buetooth.  The engines not marked are made prior to 2017.  I have 7 LC+ Engines and none are Bluetooth but I have ordered a new Berkshire that will have.  As of now, I probably won't have a need for Bluetooth but tomorrow may be a different story.

I understand that there were some made 2016 and earlier. But they said ALL LC+ engines made 1-1-17 and later will have Bluetooth capability.   If they don't I don't plan on buying them.   I already bought a Kindle Fire to run them lol

I have the Santa Fe #2656 LC+ GP7 non bluetooth. It is all metal except the body and a great runner!

I don't have any insight on model specific features.  My NW2 has metal gears and plastic side frames, but those features are likely to vary by model.  

As for the LionChief Plus line in general:  

4. Does the remote/conventional switch mean that if the command electronics go bad they can be isolated by the switch so that the engine will still run in conventional?

The short answer is maybe, but not likely.  It would depend what exactly broke in the electronics, but even in "conventional' mode, these engines still use their microprocessor.  I would have to take a guess that that is why the switch is labeled 'transformer' and not 'conventional'.  It's not really conventional control, but a rather interesting, for electronics nerds anyway, system that's in place.  So, the long answer, if any of the things that are likely to actually fail in the electronics do fail, the engine will be dead.  On the plus side, anyone with a passing, hobbyist level knowledge in electronics can repair any of the likely electronics failures even if Lionel decided not to repair it for some reason.  

5. How have the remotes held up?

I've heard stories of remotes being broken.  I've never seen one in person, or a photo of a broken remote posted.  The remotes shipped with the LC+ engines are made of a sturdy plastic and the weakest point is the speed control knob.  that is a standard potentiometer, and as such could be broken by someone forcing it past it's stop, just like the volume knob on any piece of electronic kit made in the last 100 years with a potentiometer.  

The remotes that ship with the very low end LionChief engines are a bit more flimsy looking, but I don't have enough experience with them to know if they actually are any worse, or more likely to be damaged.  

Lastly, The Universal remote follows the same basic design as the LC+ remotes, but it doesn't feel like as good of a quality plastic.  This has no scientific basis, but the orange, glossy plastic seems thin and more likely to crack than the textured blue plastic of the other remotes.  It may just be a perception I have and for all I know it could be exactly the same material, but it just feels cheaper.  I also don't like that you can see the LED lights glowing through the plastic.  

ZWPOWER13 posted:

I have a silly question....I run TMCC and Legacy...

Can you operate the Lionchief Plus loco's with the Cab1, Cab1L or Legacy remote in conventional mode?

I run some of my MPC with the Cab1.

Yes, if switched to conventional mode, they will work just like any other conventional locomotive when run under a powermaster or similar device.  Keep in mind that you do lose the ability to use the electro couplers when run in conventional.  There may be some other features that don't work, as well, but movement, whistle/bell/announcements should be accessible on a track powered with a Powermaster or similar device.  

JGL

Nice write-up JGL.  Much information contained clearly and informatively; always posts worth reading.

I run outdoors, and I've been thinking of getting a Lion Chief Plus engine for young kids to run as it might not be as complicated as Legacy or DCS with all the buttons and features.  I have about a 100' by 60' layout, and I'm wondering what kind of range I might expect.  Kids and cats like to chase things around, so that might be part of the solution.  I know there are four classes of bluetooth, and I'm guessing that Lionel might use Class 2.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

In "conventional" mode you lose the Oddessy II speed control and the pulling power plummets. Far better to just run them with the remote.

Woodshire Bill posted:

Nice write-up JGL.  Much information contained clearly and informatively; always posts worth reading.

I run outdoors, and I've been thinking of getting a Lion Chief Plus engine for young kids to run as it might not be as complicated as Legacy or DCS with all the buttons and features.  I have about a 100' by 60' layout, and I'm wondering what kind of range I might expect.  Kids and cats like to chase things around, so that might be part of the solution.  I know there are four classes of bluetooth, and I'm guessing that Lionel might use Class 2.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

I can't speak with any certainty about the BLE modules being used in the new engines as I don't have one and haven't seen the guts of any of them.  I have disassembled a Universal remote, and can say that it uses a class 2 module.  I would expect that class 2 would be uses throughout the LionChief line.  The module in the universal remote just barely meets the minimum spec for class 2 which should be good for at least 10 meters(33 feet).  However in open air, outdoors, I think you can safely assume at least twice that range, if not more.  I think it will be hard to know for sure without actually testing.  Perhaps one of the folks that has one of the FlyerChief engines with bluetooth that have been released could do a range test?  

Also worth considering, if one is planning on using the LionChief app on their smart device, the device you use could limit, or improve, the range.  While pretty much every smart device uses a class 2 Bluetooth radio, not all class 2 radios are the same.  Many better quality devices will have radios that greatly exceed the minimum spec.  On the other hand very inexpensive devices may have radios that only barely meet the requirements for class 2, and may have worse range.  At this point, it's a non-issue, with the app only available for Apple devices, which all have top-end hardware, however when the Android app is available there could be a wide range of hardware in use.  

Short answer:  I think it's worth a try for 100 foot range outdoors, but I'm not quite sure that it will make it.  If it doesn't have the range, there are some hacks I can think of that might just get something working for you.  

JGL

I have 4 LionChief Plus, locos on my layout. I feel LionChief Plus is a plus for any layout. Each operator gets their own controller. My favorite feature is the speed control. You may find these YT videos helpful from my YT channel. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbWfacp3U3Q

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1IqzW9IL7U&t=4s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hw2_EjBif4U

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pYAU2xJlDg&t=1s

"

Mark, I think you will find that if you have a LC or LC+ loco you will enjoy running them in command mode using the included remote for each loco or the universal remote.  While the Cab-1/-2/1L can control them in conventional mode, you don't get the independent control you get in command mode, exactly what you get with TMCC/Legacy.  No worrying about blocks .

Thanks John and Gary.   Your input convinces me to add Lion Chief Plus to the mix of conventional, DCS, R100, TMCC and Legacy.  There are some young children in the neighborhood who aren't ready for the more complex control systems, and I think this will be the ticket for them.   It'll be another two months before cleaning the track and running outside, but I'll email you with controllability results.  At least we won't have to worry about crossing over TIU zones.

Landsteiner posted:

"

I have a silly question....I run TMCC and Legacy...

Can you operate the Lionchief Plus loco's with the Cab1, Cab1L or Legacy remote in conventional mode?

You probably could since when you throw the switch for transformer/remote to transformer it'll run like any other conventional piece.