Generally, for layout power, I'll take an LW over a 1033. More voltage, more style - overall more refined if you ask me.

Yep, LW over 1033 every day of the week. I have a number of different single throttle PW transformers, and the LW is my favorite.

IF it's to power a small layout, would seem to me the LW would be a better choice than a 1033.

I opted for a 1033 to use as my workbench transformer on the account if it's small size and it's less bulky to take hither n' yon, yet still has enough oomph to run individual single-motor postwar engines. (I don't have any interest in the dual-motor Lionel offerings.)

Andre

+1 for the LW. Mine is still all original. Plenty of power and the large buttons are great for kids. 

The LW is fine for Postwar hogs like dual-motored Fs and the 773.  The starting voltage is too high for a lot of modern locos with can motors (assuming that you're going to operate them conventionally.)  Unless you rewire dual motors in series, or put a long string of diodes between the pick-ups and the motor, they leap off to a start. 

The 1033, with a nominal range of 5-16 volts, or even a 1034 (with 4-14 volts) is a better choice for such low-current applications.  My $.02.

I really had my heart set on an LW for the looks of it, but talking to quite a few people I went with a rebuilt ZW.  The price has dropped on the ZWs. I you know where to look, you can get rebuilt ones for $150, including shipping and a warranty. I figured if I was gonna be serious about this hobby, it was an investment worth making. Still, I wish I had an LW.

@Adam4378, If I had to choose one, I'd take the ZW over the LW. That is not to say there is much wrong with the LW.

Back in the 1950s and 60s, my father, a doctor of internal medicine, had a big black machine attached to the wall, with all kinds of red and green lights on it,  dials, dressed in white, and a cord with an "electric needle" attached to it.

It was used to literally burn off warts and other growths on people's skin.  When he ran it, it gave out a real loud "buzz" and as he touched it to the growth, black smoke would rise up and you would smell the stench of burning flesh.   (You could even smell it out in the waiting room.)

This was standard procedure for any doctor's office of that time.  (Yep, people were a **** of alot tougher back then.  The modern Y Gen crybabies wouldn't have lasted a month in that world.)

Anyway, the little hole in the wall train store down the road from me has eight ZWs, all of which look really good, and many of which are in their original cardboard cartons.  He bought them in a bulk purchase from an old train shop owner who had to retire and sell out at age 70.

Problem is, . . . the   LZs looks EXACTLY like the Electric Needle machine that use to hang on my dad's wall!   I can't bear to look at them or touch them .   (Too scary!)

I'll stick with getting an LW.    (I really like the idea of later getting a 1033 as a portable bench tester.)

Mannyrock

If your running Postwar, these LWs and other older Transformers are OK.  As long as you have thoroughly checked them out for wiring shorts and rust. I love a deal like all of us and the older transformers are easy to come by at shows. (Does anyone remember the train shows?)

However, I think that the running the newer engines with the newer electronics requires the newer transformers built for that electronics. 

Every time I read this board, I learn new terms of art.  Proud to learn that what I"ll be running are called Postwar Hogs!

Geez, I ought to get tee-shirts made up, and sell them at the next Train Show, in 2025.

Mannyrock

I really like my LW. They certainly look cool just sitting there.

@Mannyrock posted:

Every time I read this board, I learn new terms of art.  Proud to learn that what I"ll be running are called Postwar Hogs!

Geez, I ought to get tee-shirts made up, and sell them at the next Train Show, in 2025.

Mannyrock

A bit of history of railroad slang...

* Engines used to be referred to as "Hogs".

* Engineer's used to be referred to as "Hogger" and/or "Hoghead".

Such slang terms are seldom heard now on the railroad. During my railroad years, I've used the term "Piglet" to refer to a both an Engineer trainee I was training, as well as a newly credential Engineer.  Sometimes said trainee/newly credentialed Engineer barely appreciated the term!

Andre

I use a LW for power on my yard. Love the look, the light in the dial, and the performance. Don’t like that power increases counterclockwise, different from most other transformers.

A plexiglass fence at the end of the yard made it okay. 😳

They're hogs alright.  More so than some other postwar and modern locos, they guzzle a lot of volts (and watts) to get going, and pull a train at speed!

@AlanRail posted:

running the newer engines with the newer electronics requires the newer transformers built for that electronics. 

@AlanRail, this isn't personally directed at you, but as more of a PSA:

THIS IS  A MYTH AND NEEDS TO STOP BEING PERPETUATED!

The long and short of it all: A well executed power setup will include TVS diodes and discrete external circuit breakers for all utilized channels and all power sources, classic and modern, from your pre-war alphabet soup, through your classics like the ZW, to your shiny new ZW-L or Z4000.

As for more information on the why TVS diodes and external breakers are needed and such, here is some information I've compiled:

The TVS diode protects against voltage spikes caused by collapsing electromagnetic fields generated by the layout (relays, solenoids, motors, derailments etc).

A short video about those spikes from collapsing magnetic fields (scaled up from our trains, but lays out the scenario in an easy to consume way):

Since the source of these spikes are layout side, you want the protection layout side. Many people put these TVS diodes on the track, others put them on the output terminals of the transformer, and some do both!

With a ZW, it is easy to take 4 TVS diodes, shape them like this so they wrap around the binding posts, (A-U, B-U, C-U, D-U).

The 1.5KE36CA is what seems to be generally recommended around here and good for most any O gauge AC setup.

These diodes are sacrificial. They degrade as they protect against the voltage spikes. Just as your surge protector power strips recommend replacement every so often, same goes for the TVS diodes for similar reasons. TVS diodes can fail silently (no symptoms in operation), or fail spectacularly as a dead short, or fail annoyingly open preventing any power. There isn't a practical way for the layman to test the diodes for all the failure modes, so having a few on each buss and a replacement schedule (every few years) seems to be a reasonable balance.

Most people immediately think about their track and expensive locomotives, but don't forget to protect your accessory buss as well. They also have solenoids, relays, motors, and other sources of the EMF.

Some argue that power systems, like the MTH TIU, already have a TVS diode. That is true, and does offer protection, but it is thought to be better to have the protection closer to the sources, so the closer to the track, the better. Some even make it a practice to install these diodes directly in the locomotive so they don't have to worry about their club or friend's layout having the proper protection.

Most of all, the myth that fast acting circuit breakers (or fast blow fuses), whether included in a modern transformer, or externally are all you need is false - they do nothing to protect the sensitive electronics from these EMF voltage spikes. However, additional circuit breakers should still be considered essential. The main purpose of the transformers circuit breaker is to prevent the transformer from being damaged by an over current situation - this sometimes has the side-effect of also protecting downstream equipment (trains), but again, is not the principle purpose. If you have a huge honkin' tonkin' transformer capable of 15A output, but your train only needs 5 amps, then it should be on its own buss/block with a 5-7 amp breaker. This helps the small wires in your engine or powered rolling stock from carrying 15+ amps and melting in a direct short situation. For an accessory buss with small gauge wire, you definitely do not want 15+ amps going through that in a short situation, so again, an appropriate sized breaker.

Another need for external breakers on each buss/channel is that on classic transformers, not all potential power paths are protected. For example, a ZW with 4 channels, only has the U terminals behind the breaker. A short could happen between any two non-U posts with no internal overload protection.

For circuit breakers (and fuses), there is this misconception that circuit breakers trip the instant they are over their rating. i.e a 10 Amp breaker will trip at 10.01 amps or 10.1 amps, or definitely by 10.5 amps. That is generally not true. Just take a look at a generic breakers specification sheet:

In this common example, you can see that constant 135% overload (13 Amps on this 10 Amp breaker) could take an hour to trip. (https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/...cuit-breaker-stumped). As such, there are those who seek out magnetic or electronic breakers over traditional thermal ones. However, remember, in a dead short, something like a ZW can pump out 50 Amps minimizing the trip time of even thermal breakers (and also illustrating the need for discrete channel breakers - imagine 50 amps going through a small 24 gauge locomotive or accessory wire for an instant).

Most of all, this advice/recommendation for TVS diodes and discrete external circuit breakers pertains to all power sources, classic and modern, from your pre-war alphabet soup, through your classics like the ZW, to your shiny new ZW-L or Z4000.

If you are curious about the trip times of the classic Lionel transformers, the 5D testing documents have a nice chart to reference:

LW's?

Love 'em

I have three. Besides the classic ZW, they are my favorite transformer.

Nice chart from the 5D test set. Notice that a ZW is considered within spec if the circuit breaker, drawing 30 Amps, trips after 40 seconds! I wonder what that looks or smells like at 40 seconds?

Love my LW - always have - great transformer 👍🏼